"Works Meet For Repentance"

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA

Acts 26:20
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
(KJV)

Some would have us believe that works have nothing to do with our walk in Christ Jesus after our having becoming a Christian. These Scriptures from the Apostle Paul reveal he taught the same idea that James did that faith without good works is dead.

That phrase by Apostle Paul to do "works meet for repentance" is 'ergon axios ho metanoia' in the Greek. The word 'axios' is of import because it defines those works as worthy or befitting of repentance. Notice Paul claimed he preached that also to the Gentiles, and not just to those of Israel.


Eph 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(KJV)

Apostle Paul did a lot of preaching that none will be saved by their works, but only by Christ's shed Blood on the cross. But notice Paul still preached that the believer is to have works that show their repentance to Christ is deserving and worthy.


1 Tim 6:17-19
17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, Who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
(KJV)

Paul also put into perspective the rich that follow Christ Jesus. They are also to be rich in good works for Christ Jesus.


2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(KJV)

To understand just what are 'good works' "meet for repentance", Paul made it clear that ALL Scripture in God's Word is our help in that. That's how we can know what we should do, and what we should not do.


Titus 1:15-16
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny Him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
(KJV)

There Apostle Paul reveals how the works of those with a defiled conscience serves as a sign of their being a reprobate. The word "reprobate" is Greek 'adokimos' and means 'unapproved, not standing the test' (Strong's no.96). It is the very same Greek word Paul used in Romans 1:28-32 about those who do the kind of works that are worthy of death.


Titus 2:6-7
6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.
7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
(KJV)

Paul admonishes young men to be sincere and sober minded, and show themselves as a pattern of good works.


Titus 2:13-14
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
(KJV)

One of the attributes of believers on Christ Jesus as a peculiar people to God is our being zealous of good works.


Titus 3:7-8
7 That being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
(KJV)

Note how Apostle Paul makes a distinction between being justified by God's grace through His Son, and at the same time being careful to maintain good works. Paul says we are to affirm both those things constantly. When we preach Christ crucified, we are also to preach being careful to maintain good works.

(The preacher at the Protestant Church I grew up in had no problem preaching for us to have good works, nor did he have a problem with pointing out evil works that some in the congregation were guilty of. Each Sunday he went into both categories, admonishing good works and rebuking evil works, all according to God's Word.)


Was Apostle James preaching something different than Paul? No. James simply presented it in a different fashioin...

James 2:14-20
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, "Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled"; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James gave a clear example of how one's works or fruit reveals whether they are a 'reprobate', or a follower of Christ being careful to maintain good works. If a destitute unbeliever in need comes up to us for help, and all we say to them is something like, "Believe on Christ Jesus and you'll be saved!", and do nothing more to help them out of their condition, then that is faith without works. It is faith by itself, alone.


18 Yea, a man may say, "Thou hast faith, and I have works": shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Some may try to separate faith from works, like one has only faith while the other has works. In actuality, our Faith should be revealed to others BY our good works in Christ Jesus. That's all James is saying. It's the same idea our Lord Jesus taught that you don't light a candle and put it under the bed, but upon a table so that all in the room may have light. Thus let your light so show before men; that's about showing good works for Christ, setting an example for others.


19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
(KJV)

James' manner of speaking is very direct and to the point. There he compares the mere idea of belief in God to how the devils also believe in God. But what makes our Christian belief in God and His Son different from devils is our good works in Christ Jesus, producing fruit for Him. The fruit you produce defines Who and what you follow.


 

RichardBurger

New Member
Jan 23, 2008
1,498
19
0
90
Southeast USA

Acts 26:20
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
(KJV)

Some would have us believe that works have nothing to do with our walk in Christ Jesus after our having becoming a Christian. These Scriptures from the Apostle Paul reveal he taught the same idea that James did that faith without good works is dead.

That phrase by Apostle Paul to do "works meet for repentance" is 'ergon axios ho metanoia' in the Greek. The word 'axios' is of import because it defines those works as worthy or befitting of repentance. Notice Paul claimed he preached that also to the Gentiles, and not just to those of Israel.


Eph 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(KJV)

Apostle Paul did a lot of preaching that none will be saved by their works, but only by Christ's shed Blood on the cross. But notice Paul still preached that the believer is to have works that show their repentance to Christ is deserving and worthy.


1 Tim 6:17-19
17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, Who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
(KJV)

Paul also put into perspective the rich that follow Christ Jesus. They are also to be rich in good works for Christ Jesus.


2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(KJV)

To understand just what are 'good works' "meet for repentance", Paul made it clear that ALL Scripture in God's Word is our help in that. That's how we can know what we should do, and what we should not do.


Titus 1:15-16
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny Him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
(KJV)

There Apostle Paul reveals how the works of those with a defiled conscience serves as a sign of their being a reprobate. The word "reprobate" is Greek 'adokimos' and means 'unapproved, not standing the test' (Strong's no.96). It is the very same Greek word Paul used in Romans 1:28-32 about those who do the kind of works that are worthy of death.


Titus 2:6-7
6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.
7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
(KJV)

Paul admonishes young men to be sincere and sober minded, and show themselves as a pattern of good works.


Titus 2:13-14
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
(KJV)

One of the attributes of believers on Christ Jesus as a peculiar people to God is our being zealous of good works.


Titus 3:7-8
7 That being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
(KJV)

Note how Apostle Paul makes a distinction between being justified by God's grace through His Son, and at the same time being careful to maintain good works. Paul says we are to affirm both those things constantly. When we preach Christ crucified, we are also to preach being careful to maintain good works.

(The preacher at the Protestant Church I grew up in had no problem preaching for us to have good works, nor did he have a problem with pointing out evil works that some in the congregation were guilty of. Each Sunday he went into both categories, admonishing good works and rebuking evil works, all according to God's Word.)


Was Apostle James preaching something different than Paul? No. James simply presented it in a different fashioin...

James 2:14-20
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, "Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled"; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James gave a clear example of how one's works or fruit reveals whether they are a 'reprobate', or a follower of Christ being careful to maintain good works. If a destitute unbeliever in need comes up to us for help, and all we say to them is something like, "Believe on Christ Jesus and you'll be saved!", and do nothing more to help them out of their condition, then that is faith without works. It is faith by itself, alone.


18 Yea, a man may say, "Thou hast faith, and I have works": shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Some may try to separate faith from works, like one has only faith while the other has works. In actuality, our Faith should be revealed to others BY our good works in Christ Jesus. That's all James is saying. It's the same idea our Lord Jesus taught that you don't light a candle and put it under the bed, but upon a table so that all in the room may have light. Thus let your light so show before men; that's about showing good works for Christ, setting an example for others.


19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
(KJV)

James' manner of speaking is very direct and to the point. There he compares the mere idea of belief in God to how the devils also believe in God. But what makes our Christian belief in God and His Son different from devils is our good works in Christ Jesus, producing fruit for Him. The fruit you produce defines Who and what you follow.



You said: "James' manner of speaking is very direct and to the point. There he compares the mere idea of belief in God to how the devils also believe in God. But what makes our Christian belief in God and His Son different from devils is our good works in Christ Jesus, producing fruit for Him. The fruit you produce defines Who and what you follow."

My comments: First of all the devil might believe God exists but He (the Devil) does not place faith, trust, and confidence in the shed blood of Jesus because he knows it can never save him.

The fruit we are to produce is bringing people to a faith, trust, confidence in Jesus' shed blood on the cross. Their faith in Him is the only thing that will save them. It has nothing to do with not sinning in the flesh. Many people have been sent to Hell because they know in their hearts that they still sin and give up hope in God's work on the cross. They do that because they are told they must change by their own efforts and will power. Most religious people are like Job's three religious friends.

Those that preach works instead of grace will send many to Hell. If you say works and grace are the same thing then you know nothing.

How do we overcome this world? By faith in His blood.
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
You said: "James' manner of speaking is very direct and to the point. There he compares the mere idea of belief in God to how the devils also believe in God. But what makes our Christian belief in God and His Son different from devils is our good works in Christ Jesus, producing fruit for Him. The fruit you produce defines Who and what you follow."

My comments: First of all the devil might believe God exists but He (the Devil) does not place faith, trust, and confidence in the shed blood of Jesus because he knows it can never save him.

Not my intention to infer the devils can be saved. I think you well know that. But the devils KNOW God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit exist. James is simply giving a comparison to simple belief in God's existence; nothing more. I think you realize that too.


The fruit we are to produce is bringing people to a faith, trust, confidence in Jesus' shed blood on the cross. Their faith in Him is the only thing that will save them. It has nothing to do with not sinning in the flesh. Many people have been sent to Hell because they know in their hearts that they still sin and give up hope in God's work on the cross. They do that because they are told they must change by their own efforts and will power. Most religious people are like Job's three religious friends.

Believing by Faith on our Lord Jesus is only the FIRST STEP in our walk with Him. That's why Paul admonished us to walk by The Spirit and not by our flesh in Galatians.

Those who give up hope in Christ Jesus do so because of their turning away from Him, becoming reprobates by following the ways of the devil instead. They make their OWN choice to stop their walk in Him by no longer asking forgiveness and refusing to repent to Him.


Those that preach works instead of grace will send many to Hell. If you say works and grace are the same thing then you know nothing.

How do we overcome this world? By faith in His blood.

Christ's Apostles, especially Paul, preached both Christ's Grace and maintaining good works in Him. I just showed a multitude of NT Scripture by Paul as evidence.

More evidence...

Eph 5:1-17
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given Himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Paul is giving some very big don't's there which carry the weight of not becoming an heir of the kingdom of Christ and of God. Very serious.


6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

In other words, DO NOT ALLOW ANY MAN TO DECEIVE YOU ABOUT PARTAKING IN THOSE EVIL WORKS he just mentioned. It's because of doing those things that God's wrath comes upon the children of disobedience.

Children of disobedience? How is that not... about being careful for a Christian believer to maintain good works to stay in Christ Jesus? It is of OBEDIENCE to the things of righteousness that we are called to be in Christ Jesus.


8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

How does a Christian believer PROVE what is acceptable unto The LORD? That Greek word for "Proving" is also used in the sense of testing metals. It's like the idea of Greek 'basanos' rendered as "torment" in Luke 16:28 about a touchstone used to measure the amount of gold in a piece of raw ore. The "rich man" of Luke 16 went to hell because he did not 'prove' what is acceptable to The Lord. That whole matter is about acts and action, works in Christ Jesus.

When Apostle Paul speaks of someone not inheriting the kingdom of Christ and of God because of DOING evil works, we can be assured he is most definitely speaking about WORKS, and not just the subject of Faith in Christ Jesus. Afterall, Paul is saying this to Christians at Ephesus!!


11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, 'Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.'
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
(KJV)

Can we just place within Paul's Message of warning there the idea of only having Faith on Jesus Christ? No, because Paul is preaching about what KIND of works for us to have, and what kind to NOT have. Not only that, but he makes a direct statement to not be unwise, but to understand what the will of The LORD is. Preaching that all one must do is believe on Christ Jesus and nothing else means being unwise, and not caring to understand His Will.



 

RichardBurger

New Member
Jan 23, 2008
1,498
19
0
90
Southeast USA


Not my intention to infer the devils can be saved. I think you well know that. But the devils KNOW God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit exist. James is simply giving a comparison to simple belief in God's existence; nothing more. I think you realize that too.




Believing by Faith on our Lord Jesus is only the FIRST STEP in our walk with Him. That's why Paul admonished us to walk by The Spirit and not by our flesh in Galatians.

Those who give up hope in Christ Jesus do so because of their turning away from Him, becoming reprobates by following the ways of the devil instead. They make their OWN choice to stop their walk in Him by no longer asking forgiveness and refusing to repent to Him.




Christ's Apostles, especially Paul, preached both Christ's Grace and maintaining good works in Him. I just showed a multitude of NT Scripture by Paul as evidence.

More evidence...

Eph 5:1-17
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given Himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Paul is giving some very big don't's there which carry the weight of not becoming an heir of the kingdom of Christ and of God. Very serious.


6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

In other words, DO NOT ALLOW ANY MAN TO DECEIVE YOU ABOUT PARTAKING IN THOSE EVIL WORKS he just mentioned. It's because of doing those things that God's wrath comes upon the children of disobedience.

Children of disobedience? How is that not... about being careful for a Christian believer to maintain good works to stay in Christ Jesus? It is of OBEDIENCE to the things of righteousness that we are called to be in Christ Jesus.


8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

How does a Christian believer PROVE what is acceptable unto The LORD? That Greek word for "Proving" is also used in the sense of testing metals. It's like the idea of Greek 'basanos' rendered as "torment" in Luke 16:28 about a touchstone used to measure the amount of gold in a piece of raw ore. The "rich man" of Luke 16 went to hell because he did not 'prove' what is acceptable to The Lord. That whole matter is about acts and action, works in Christ Jesus.

When Apostle Paul speaks of someone not inheriting the kingdom of Christ and of God because of DOING evil works, we can be assured he is most definitely speaking about WORKS, and not just the subject of Faith in Christ Jesus. Afterall, Paul is saying this to Christians at Ephesus!!


11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, 'Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.'
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
(KJV)

Can we just place within Paul's Message of warning there the idea of only having Faith on Jesus Christ? No, because Paul is preaching about what KIND of works for us to have, and what kind to NOT have. Not only that, but he makes a direct statement to not be unwise, but to understand what the will of The LORD is. Preaching that all one must do is believe on Christ Jesus and nothing else means being unwise, and not caring to understand His Will.




If I say you are teaching salvation by the works of Man, you will deny it. -- Yet that is exactly what you are doing.
 

RichardBurger

New Member
Jan 23, 2008
1,498
19
0
90
Southeast USA


That's failed attempt no.1. You didn't address any of the Scripture evidence I've given that preach works are important for a believer to have.

Foolish man, Where have you addressed any of the scriptures I gave that say we are not saved by our works of the flesh nor are we condemned by them. The children of God are under God's grace, the free gift of salvation based on the work of God on the cross. The ONLY SIN THAT CONDEMNS TODAY IS THE SIN OF UNBELIEF THAT THE SHED BLOOD OF JESUS ON THE CROSS PAYS FOR ALL SINS OF THE FLESH. BUT IT DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU IF YOU DON"T BELIEVE IT DOES.

But you are so arrangant that you think I must address your scriptures and don't have to address the ones I give in my OP. --- You, like many others do not care about what is in the original OP you are just here to preach your ideas and you attach them to any OP on the forum.
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
Foolish man, Where have you addressed any of the scriptures I gave that say we are not saved by our works of the flesh nor are we condemned by them. The children of God are under God's grace, the free gift of salvation based on the work of God on the cross. The ONLY SIN THAT CONDEMNS TODAY IS THE SIN OF UNBELIEF THAT THE SHED BLOOD OF JESUS ON THE CROSS PAYS FOR ALL SINS OF THE FLESH. BUT IT DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU IF YOU DON"T BELIEVE IT DOES.

But you are so arrangant that you think I must address your scriptures and don't have to address the ones I give in my OP. --- You, like many others do not care about what is in the original OP you are just here to preach your ideas and you attach them to any OP on the forum.

You don't address Scripture because you don't know Christ Jesus. If you belonged to my Lord Jesus Christ, you would listen to Him in His Word.

What you preach is for Christ's Church to GO INTO SIN AND STAY THERE UNTIL WE ARE ALL DESTROYED!!

You're not here as a Christian believer; I don't even think you believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ.

You are of your father the devil, he was a liar and a murderer from the beginning. I reckon you've heard that before, just as your Jewish ancestors were told the same!

 
  • Like
Reactions: tomwebster

RichardBurger

New Member
Jan 23, 2008
1,498
19
0
90
Southeast USA


You don't address Scripture because you don't know Christ Jesus. If you belonged to my Lord Jesus Christ, you would listen to Him in His Word.

What you preach is for Christ's Church to GO INTO SIN AND STAY THERE UNTIL WE ARE ALL DESTROYED!!

You're not here as a Christian believer; I don't even think you believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ.

You are of your father the devil, he was a liar and a murderer from the beginning. I reckon you've heard that before, just as your Jewish ancestors were told the same!


You, and everyone else, are already in sin according to the scriptures.

After all your venom I would like to say this, I forgive you. -- However I would like to remind you that It was the religious who plotted and had Jesus murdered. It was the religious that stoned Stephens to death. It was the religious who persecuted Paul. And it is the religious that persecute the children of God today.
 

ronmorgen

New Member
Apr 5, 2011
75
3
0
You are correct Mr. Veteran that faith without works is dead, it was never saving faith to begin with. James explains that kind of faith clearly when he wrote,

But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds. "Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
James 2:18 NIV

The faith the demons have is dead faith, James 2:26. James wouldn’t have said that had there not been a problem with it in the church. There were those members who taught, as Mr. Burger teaches, and he was countering them as you are.

Here’s my take. The faith that saves is born in the heart when a man is convinced by the Holy Spirit, believes, and turns to Christ. The faith that deceives is born in the mind when a man is convinced by a man, believes, and turns to Christ. The difference is subtle and invisible UNTIL you observe the works. When a man experiences God’s forgiving love (having previously been shown his sinfulness by the Holy Spirit, and repented, turned), he will reciprocate by obeying God. That is the way to salvation (not salvation itself which is the end of the journey 1 Cor 1:18, 2 Cor 2:15). When a man turns to Christ without God’s touch, no love or good works is produced. He thinks he is on the way”, but he is not. If he then teaches this “other” gospel, he is a false teacher.



 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I agree that saving faith involves the heart and mind. Many Christians retain their belief only in their mind, but thinking about a relationship with Jesus is not engaging in the relationship. It takes heart and mind to compel a person to action and it is this action that defines the relationship. All relationship involve at least two people. Furthermore, it is impossible to separate faith and works when the mind and heart have brought the soul to the place of action - experiencing God's saving grace and practicing our sanctification by loving God and neighbor.
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
You are correct Mr. Veteran that faith without works is dead, it was never saving faith to begin with. James explains that kind of faith clearly when he wrote,

But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds. "Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
James 2:18 NIV

The faith the demons have is dead faith, James 2:26. James wouldn’t have said that had there not been a problem with it in the church. There were those members who taught, as Mr. Burger teaches, and he was countering them as you are.

Here’s my take. The faith that saves is born in the heart when a man is convinced by the Holy Spirit, believes, and turns to Christ. The faith that deceives is born in the mind when a man is convinced by a man, believes, and turns to Christ. The difference is subtle and invisible UNTIL you observe the works. When a man experiences God’s forgiving love (having previously been shown his sinfulness by the Holy Spirit, and repented, turned), he will reciprocate by obeying God. That is the way to salvation (not salvation itself which is the end of the journey 1 Cor 1:18, 2 Cor 2:15). When a man turns to Christ without God’s touch, no love or good works is produced. He thinks he is on the way”, but he is not. If he then teaches this “other” gospel, he is a false teacher.



Exactly, and that's the meaning of Paul's "works meet for repentance" per Acts 26:20. Even John the Baptist stressed this point in Matthew 3 when speaking to the blind Pharisees and Sadduccees. For one in Christ Jesus they will show 'fruit' in Him. For those whose tree produces no 'fruit', it is destined to be hewn down and cast into the fire.