Three Questions

RichardBurger · Jul 10, 2011

Three Questions?
*please don’t preach a sermon, a yes or no answer is sufficient. If you can't say yes or no then don't reply.*

1. The sole purpose for Jesus coming to the Jews (Israel) was to setup the kingdom promised to the Jews; yes or no?

2. The ministry and teachings of Jesus was to convince the Jews that He is the Messiah: yes or no?

3. The preaching of Paul is just a continuation of what Jesus and the 12 taught; yes or no?

veteran · Jul 10, 2011

What? Don't answer if you don't agree? What ignorance is that?

I like sermons, and here's one...

God fore-ordained His Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ before the FOUNDATION OF THIS WORLD.

God chosen a certain people to carry that Salvation Plan forth, TO ALL NATIONS. He gave His Gospel Salvation Plan to His chosen of Israel first, AND THEY CARRIED IT FORTH.

When the time came for His Son to be born of a virgin, and die on the cross to SEAL that fore-ordained Salvation through His Son's Blood shed on the cross in defeating the devil, then He commanded His Apostles to preach THAT Gospel to ALL nations.

And His Apostles continued to preach THAT same Gospel, along with other disciples who disciplined themselves as followers of Christ Jesus. (That's where the Greek word for 'disciple' comes from, it's about 'discipline').

And then His Apostles forewarned those in Christ Jesus in the last days, to beware of many false prophets would come to seek to turn Christ's Church away from Him, preaching false doctrines to itching ears and those who fall to all the fleshy lusts of this world, which is what Richard Burger is preaching.

According to Richard Burger and the false prophets he listens to, it is now OK for the Christian to go out and commit adultery, become a homosexual, do thievery, lie, or just WHATEVER thing you want to do, because it ALL IS COVERED BY CHRIST'S BLOOD SHED ON THE CROSS THROUGH HIS GRACE.

WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TO REPENT OF IT EITHER!!

If I didn't care about my brethren in Christ Jesus, and if I was of the mindset of those like Richard, I'd probably write him and see if I could get him to send me a LICENSE FOR SIN, since he so much cares to continue to push Satan's sins onto Christ's Body of saints!

RichardBurger · Jul 10, 2011

veteran said:
What? Don't answer if you don't agree? What ignorance is that?

I like sermons, and here's one...

God fore-ordained His Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ before the FOUNDATION OF THIS WORLD.

God chosen a certain people to carry that Salvation Plan forth, TO ALL NATIONS. He gave His Gospel Salvation Plan to His chosen of Israel first, AND THEY CARRIED IT FORTH.

When the time came for His Son to be born of a virgin, and die on the cross to SEAL that fore-ordained Salvation through His Son's Blood shed on the cross in defeating the devil, then He commanded His Apostles to preach THAT Gospel to ALL nations.

And His Apostles continued to preach THAT same Gospel, along with other disciples who disciplined themselves as followers of Christ Jesus. (That's where the Greek word for 'disciple' comes from, it's about 'discipline').

And then His Apostles forewarned those in Christ Jesus in the last days, to beware of many false prophets would come to seek to turn Christ's Church away from Him, preaching false doctrines to itching ears and those who fall to all the fleshy lusts of this world, which is what Richard Burger is preaching.

According to Richard Burger and the false prophets he listens to, it is now OK for the Christian to go out and commit adultery, become a homosexual, do thievery, lie, or just WHATEVER thing you want to do, because it ALL IS COVERED BY CHRIST'S BLOOD SHED ON THE CROSS THROUGH HIS GRACE.

WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TO REPENT OF IT EITHER!!

If I didn't care about my brethren in Christ Jesus, and if I was of the mindset of those like Richard, I'd probably write him and see if I could get him to send me a LICENSE FOR SIN, since he so much cares to continue to push Satan's sins onto Christ's Body of saints!

I see you just can't refrain from expressin your snake venom. However you are on notice that I will not reply to you when you say these things to malign me and do not answer the 3 questions.

tomwebster · Jul 10, 2011

veteran said:
What? Don't answer if you don't agree? What ignorance is that?

I like sermons, and here's one...

God fore-ordained His Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ before the FOUNDATION OF THIS WORLD.

God chosen a certain people to carry that Salvation Plan forth, TO ALL NATIONS. He gave His Gospel Salvation Plan to His chosen of Israel first, AND THEY CARRIED IT FORTH.

When the time came for His Son to be born of a virgin, and die on the cross to SEAL that fore-ordained Salvation through His Son's Blood shed on the cross in defeating the devil, then He commanded His Apostles to preach THAT Gospel to ALL nations.

And His Apostles continued to preach THAT same Gospel, along with other disciples who disciplined themselves as followers of Christ Jesus. (That's where the Greek word for 'disciple' comes from, it's about 'discipline').

And then His Apostles forewarned those in Christ Jesus in the last days, to beware of many false prophets would come to seek to turn Christ's Church away from Him, preaching false doctrines to itching ears and those who fall to all the fleshy lusts of this world, which is what Richard Burger is preaching.

According to Richard Burger and the false prophets he listens to, it is now OK for the Christian to go out and commit adultery, become a homosexual, do thievery, lie, or just WHATEVER thing you want to do, because it ALL IS COVERED BY CHRIST'S BLOOD SHED ON THE CROSS THROUGH HIS GRACE.

WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TO REPENT OF IT EITHER!!

If I didn't care about my brethren in Christ Jesus, and if I was of the mindset of those like Richard, I'd probably write him and see if I could get him to send me a LICENSE FOR SIN, since he so much cares to continue to push Satan's sins onto Christ's Body of saints!

Good response veteran. Rb has never been one to like the truth and has taught false doctrine most of his time here. That is one of the reasons he was booted before.

aspen · Jul 10, 2011

yes or no

RichardBurger · Jul 11, 2011

tomwebster said:
Good response veteran. Rb has never been one to like the truth and has taught false doctrine most of his time here. That is one of the reasons he was booted before.

Both your reply and the reply by veteran had nothing to do with the three questions in th OP and are just character assasinations.

Of course you would say what I teach is false because it is not what you believe.

How foolish, your saying I was booted because what I believe is false. If people on this forum are booted because of what they believe then this is a closed forum and others with differences in belief in what the Bible says are not welcome. If this is true then the moderators should include warning that only the standard ideas are acceptable here. Which one of you wants to be the one to establish the acceptable ideas that others are to believe. Which one wants to be god.

thisistheendtimes · Jul 11, 2011

First off, let me apologize Richard, for not being able to provide a 'closed end' (as opposed to "open ended" explanation) answer/solution (either "yes" or "no") to the first two questions.

You make some good points in the questions (very good points). In MY UNDERSTANDING, the following verse does not SPECIFICALLY say that Jesus came only for the purpose of providing salvation....(WOW!).....maybe this was just His purpose for THE GENTILES (modern worshipper)??,...or is it a SUMMARY of His whole purpose for both Jews and non-Jews?. I never considered that before (I always found this verse interesting).

Matthew 10:34
"on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword"................(the DISCERNING "sword" that a Godly person should have??......."sword of the spirit", Ephesians 6:17).

In John 10:1 and 27, Jesus talks about "MY sheep". In John 4:23, He says that the modern worshipper is the "TRUE worshipper".

Again, sorry for messing up your request for "closed end" answers only.

Jesus often said He had to "fulfill all righteousness", so likely that's exactly what He meant (that He did also have a responsibility to "setup the kingdom promised to the Jews").

I never noticed Jesus specifically "ministering"/teaching the pharisees except in the synagogue. Did Jesus actually "minister" to them, or did He make His judgement against them more just than if He didn't "minister" to them?

Matthew 11:21
"Woe to you, Chora'zin! woe to you, Beth-sa'ida! for if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes".

Matthew 23:13
"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in".

....but your last question is a definite NO answer.

Again, I apologize.

RichardBurger · Jul 11, 2011

thisistheendtimes said:
First off, let me apologize Richard, for not being able to provide a 'closed end' (as opposed to "open ended" explanation) answer/solution (either "yes" or "no") to the first two questions.

You make some good points in the questions (very good points). In MY UNDERSTANDING, the following verse does not SPECIFICALLY say that Jesus came only for the purpose of providing salvation....(WOW!).....maybe this was just His purpose for THE GENTILES (modern worshipper)??,...or is it a SUMMARY of His whole purpose for both Jews and non-Jews?. I never considered that before (I always found this verse interesting).

Matthew 10:34
"on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword"................(the DISCERNING "sword" that a Godly person should have??......."sword of the spirit", Ephesians 6:17).

In John 10:1 and 27, Jesus talks about "MY sheep". In John 4:23, He says that the modern worshipper is the "TRUE worshipper".

Again, sorry for messing up your request for "closed end" answers only.

Jesus often said He had to "fulfill all righteousness", so likely that's exactly what He meant (that He did also have a responsibility to "setup the kingdom promised to the Jews").

I never noticed Jesus specifically "ministering"/teaching the pharisees except in the synagogue. Did Jesus actually "minister" to them, or did He make His judgement against them more just than if He didn't "minister" to them?

Matthew 11:21
"Woe to you, Chora'zin! woe to you, Beth-sa'ida! for if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes".

Matthew 23:13
"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in".

....but your last question is a definite NO answer.

Again, I apologize.

Thanks for your reply. It is a wonderful not having someone say I am a devil. Ha! Ha!

thisistheendtimes · Jul 11, 2011

Yeah, I've noticed Richard.

People don't take kindly to those who have the courage to be contrary to the status quo. The status quo validates them and is their comfort zone of safety (and their empire of pride).

The same thing was happening in the first century (human nature never changes)....

Acts 17:6 "These men who have turned the world upside down".

With deep conviction and endurance, you have already CONFORMED (not to the book, but to the only thing we should conform to). Take heart, Jesus was very contrary to the status quo. Unknowingly, you have already......

Romans 8:29
"conformed to the image of his Son".

You are being used, but always remember HUMILITY to GOD ONLY, be arrogant (confident) in "SELF". Genuine humility to God only is the requirement and maintenance of "understanding" (more than "wisdom", Proverbs "Get UNDERSTANDING").

For four years now, The Lord has shown me how to chip away at the 'walls of darkness' so there will be many new brethren (brethren of the truth, not 'brethren of the book') of the Father's firstborn (Jesus said "I am....THE truth...", John 14:6).

Let derision and ridicule be your encouragement that you are striking the 'walls of darkness' with effectiveness, but PERHAPS it is all just "chasing after the wind" (or am I just the most cynical person you could ever know?, most likely).

FHII · Jul 11, 2011

RichardBurger said:
Three Questions?
*please don’t preach a sermon, a yes or no answer is sufficient. If you can't say yes or no then don't reply.*

1. The sole purpose for Jesus coming to the Jews (Israel) was to setup the kingdom promised to the Jews; yes or no?

2. The ministry and teachings of Jesus was to convince the Jews that He is the Messiah: yes or no?

3. The preaching of Paul is just a continuation of what Jesus and the 12 taught; yes or no?

1. No.

2. Yes.

3. Yes.

RichardBurger · Jul 12, 2011

FHII said:
1. No.

2. Yes.

3. Yes.

Thanks for your reply.

Richard

RichardBurger · Jul 12, 2011

thisistheendtimes said:
Yeah, I've noticed Richard.

People don't take kindly to those who have the courage to be contrary to the status quo. The status quo validates them and is their comfort zone of safety (and their empire of pride).

The same thing was happening in the first century (human nature never changes)....

Acts 17:6 "These men who have turned the world upside down".

With deep conviction and endurance, you have already CONFORMED (not to the book, but to the only thing we should conform to). Take heart, Jesus was very contrary to the status quo. Unknowingly, you have already......

Romans 8:29
"conformed to the image of his Son".

You are being used, but always remember HUMILITY to GOD ONLY, be arrogant (confident) in "SELF". Genuine humility to God only is the requirement and maintenance of "understanding" (more than "wisdom", Proverbs "Get UNDERSTANDING").

For four years now, The Lord has shown me how to chip away at the 'walls of darkness' so there will be many new brethren (brethren of the truth, not 'brethren of the book') of the Father's firstborn (Jesus said "I am....THE truth...", John 14:6).

Let derision and ridicule be your encouragement that you are striking the 'walls of darkness' with effectiveness, but PERHAPS it is all just "chasing after the wind" (or am I just the most cynical person you could ever know?, most likely).

To me the sign of intelligence is an open mind that questions everything. Those with a closed mind will never see anything other than what they want to see.

I wonder if anyone has ever created a study on the churches in the first 3 books of Rev. Since a church is a group of people, are these churches believing Jews or some of the grace churches started by Paul.

But most will not even entertain the idea that they could be Jewish churches and not ones started by Paul.

FHII · Jul 12, 2011

RichardBurger said:
To me the sign of intelligence is an open mind that questions everything. Those with a closed mind will never see anything other than what they want to see.

I wonder if anyone has ever created a study on the churches in the first 3 books of Rev. Since a church is a group of people, are these churches believing Jews or some of the grace churches started by Paul.

But most will not even entertain the idea that they could be Jewish churches and not ones started by Paul.

I'll entertain the idea, but I don't think John (Quoting Jesus) was talking to Jewish churches. Then again, I really haven't thought that much about it.

veteran · Jul 12, 2011

thisistheendtimes said:
You make some good points in the questions (very good points). In MY UNDERSTANDING, the following verse does not SPECIFICALLY say that Jesus came only for the purpose of providing salvation....(WOW!).....maybe this was just His purpose for THE GENTILES (modern worshipper)??,...or is it a SUMMARY of His whole purpose for both Jews and non-Jews?. I never considered that before (I always found this verse interesting).

Matthew 10:34
"on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword"................(the DISCERNING "sword" that a Godly person should have??......."sword of the spirit", Ephesians 6:17).

In John 10:1 and 27, Jesus talks about "MY sheep". In John 4:23, He says that the modern worshipper is the "TRUE worshipper".

Got me a bit concerned with your remarks to "the modern worshipper". Just what is that? Do you mean New Covenant worshippers in contrast to Old Covenant worshippers? If so, I then understand.

Again, sorry for messing up your request for "closed end" answers only.

Jesus often said He had to "fulfill all righteousness", so likely that's exactly what He meant (that He did also have a responsibility to "setup the kingdom promised to the Jews").

I never noticed Jesus specifically "ministering"/teaching the pharisees except in the synagogue. Did Jesus actually "minister" to them, or did He make His judgement against them more just than if He didn't "minister" to them?

Yes, Jesus ministered to the Pharisees also; even attended a feast He was invited to. And Nicodemus was a Pharisee, and also brought spices for Christ's burial later. Not all the Pharisees refused Him.

John 12:42-43
42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on Him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
(KJV)

Matthew 11:21
"Woe to you, Chora'zin! woe to you, Beth-sa'ida! for if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes".

Matthew 23:13
"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in".

....but your last question is a definite NO answer.

Again, I apologize.

Many times I've tried to get my Christian brethren to read Old Testament Bible history to learn who the Jews are. Our Lord Jesus did not come to setup the kingdom just for Jews, but for ALL of Israel. The Jews at Jerusalem were a very small remnant of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi per history. The rest of Israel, the majority of all 12 tribes, were scattered in the nations outside the middleast, which happened with two separate captivities. The Book of Ezra reveals who and how many among the "house of Judah" returned to Jerusalem to build the 2nd temple and city after the king of Babylon had destroyed it 70 years before their return.

The Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.) said the name 'Jew' first began to be used by the returning remnant from the 70 years Babylon captivity. Per God's Word, ONLY the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi went into that particular captivity to Babylon. The ten tribes (majority of Israel) had already... been taken captive to the lands of the Medes and Assyria long before the Jews went into captivity to Babylon.

It's very important to grasp this Bible history, because it well explains how the 'stage' was set in Jerusalem for our Lord's first coming to die on the cross at the hand of the unbelieving Jews, putting His Kingdom there in abeyance until the restitution of all things.

Per Old Testament history, Israel always had the problem of pagan worshippers among them turning the children of Israel to idol worship. God told Israel to literally destroy specific nations of Canaan after He had given the Canaanites space of over 400 years to repent. Israel failed in that duty, and God said He would leave those Canaanites to dwell among Israel, to test Israel, to see if Israel would follow Him or not. In Solomon's time, those left of the Canaanites became bondservants to Israel, dwelling in Israel. More of them fooled Joshua into allowing them to dwell among Israel.

Eventually, those bondservants, cutters of wood and drawers of water, worked their way up into priestly duties like cutting the wood for the altar in the temple. That's what the word Nethinim means, given to temple service. The Kenites of the nations of Canaan also began to creep up into the duty as scribes, editors and translators of God's Old Testament Word. Not only that, but during Judah's 70 years Babylon captivity, even elders and leaders of Israel started taking wives of the Canaanites, having children with them.

The Jewish sage writings called the Babylonian Talmud is the religious writings that came out of their captivity to Babylon. It is loosely Bible based, very loosely based. That's what created what Apostle Paul called "the Jews' religion" upon the people, which Christ called traditions and commandments of men. That's where the traditions of the Pharisees and Sadduccees originated. And it was set, prepared for the time of our Lord's first coming, and would be the reason why He was rejected by those unbelieving Jews.

Josephus revealed another problem with non-Israelites creeping in among Israel with the Idumeans (of Esau). God pronounced judgment upon the nation south of Judea called Edom. When Israel destroyed Edom, many of the Edomites (Idumeans or children of Esau) began dwelling among Judah, and took the name Jew also. Josephus showed how some of the Idumeans also crept into the office of chief priest in Jerusalem! So like I said, the stage was set for Christ to be rejected by those unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem at His first coming. Following Bible history about those things help explain how Christ Jesus could be rejected by so many of His Own people at that time. Reality is though, many of the later Jews were non-Israelites of foreign birth, just as it still is today.

This is why it is Biblically wrong to equate Israel as being only Jews. When I hear brethren that do equate only Jews as being the seed of Israel, it tells me that person has NOT really studied all their Bible, but are simply putting their trust in what men say, and ahere much to mens doctrines instead. So I'm not trying to rebuke with this, but admonish my Christian brethren to study more of God's Word for theirselves, because not being aware of this Bible history can lead into many false doctrines by the wolves in sheep's clothing.

thisistheendtimes · Jul 12, 2011

veteran,

You understand correctly that TODAY'S Godly person (the N.T. worshipper of JESUS, the N.T. COMPLETE God) is what I call the "modern" worshipper (the "TRUE worshipper")....I say "COMPLETE" because in the O.T. there was only the Father and the spirit, but now, Jesus has been added/revealed.

OUR "worship" is not the same as the Israelites (the fathers of the Hebrews that lived at the time of Jesus).

Our devotion to God is NOT supposed to be based on the HOLY MOUNTAIN that WAS PHYSICALLY PRESENT.......OUR WORSHIP is now done SPIRITUALLY and also done "in TRUTH"......

John 4:21.....Jesus said the time is coming when......
"neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father".........(no more PHYSICAL worship)....

John 4:23
"But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father IN SPIRIT (SPIRITUAL worshipping).

It needs to be very well understood that, today, God wants us to worship Him SPIRITUALLY, not PHYSICALLY,....you see......God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship SPIRITUALLY.

In worshipping Jesus, we are to be living spiritually INSIDE the body that hung on the cross,......and inside Jesus, THERE ARE NO JEWS,.....neither are there any NON-JEWS (Gentiles, members of Greek civilization).

...(there were two kinds of people in those days, there were "God's chosen people" (Jews) and there were people of Greek civilization, so some scripture versions say "Gentiles" or "non-jews" and some say "Greek").

Galatians 3:28
"neither Jew nor Greek".

....also SPIRITS INSIDE JESUS have NO GENDER.....

Galatians 3:28
"neither male nor female".

You are right about "not all the jews refused Him", many went to the Council of Jerusalem and invented the religion we have today.

WE are NOT jews (tell God that you INSIST on glorifying MAN,...give Him all your 'jibber-jabber' rationalizations and excuses...and hope that He cares enough to correct you even though you'd rather not glorify HIM ONLY).

Jesus 'helpfully' "MINISTERED TO" the Jews IN THE TEMPLE/"synagogue", but simply SPOKE TO them in the street (not "helpfully ministered" to them). The sermon Jesus gave on the Mount was to THE COMMONER (POOR),....it is wise to always make 'DISTINCTIONS'....that is what the discerning/distinguishing "sword" is (Ephesians 6:17).....learning to make "DISTINCTIONS" is necessary for truth and holiness.

Hebrews5:14
"But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their faculties trained by practice to DISTINGUISH good from evil"......

.......(it's up to you if you desire to learn "DISTINCTION")......it's YOUR soul, nobody else's. YOU should be the only one on earth to care for your soul (others don't have the competence or sincerity).

It's not important to know "bible" history or anything other than "Christ and Him crucified".

While Paul was among all of the 'scripture scholars', he said that he made his own personal decision to know NOTHING among them except "Christ and Him crucified".

I am not even going to SUGGEST that you make your own personal decision (don't drop your soul in my lap), God doesn't plead with anyone to have a LOVE RELATIONSHIP devotion, and I won't insult Him by trying/pleading to CONVINCE anyone to love Him.

Verses are from the RSV.

FHII · Jul 12, 2011

RichardBurger said:
Three Questions?
*please don’t preach a sermon, a yes or no answer is sufficient. If you can't say yes or no then don't reply.*

Richard Berger,

I have enjoyed your posts and agree with you on everything you say that I can think of concerning the matter of grace. However, I wonder why you asked these three questions and further requested for a yes or no answer.

I can understand the frustration of people not answering the question asked. I haven't been around this board long, but I've been around many other boards (being banned from some of them because I refused to bow down to their beliefs some of the time and at other times refusing to be nice about it). But there was a method to your asking these questions. Are you planning to answer, give a rebuttal, or otherwise address it? Twenty minutes isn't a long time, but that's how long I thought to say three simple words to your question. I don't think you were looking for answers. I know "a series of questions asked in order to make a point" when I see one.

So for the sake of a new person to this board.... What's your point?

aspen · Jul 13, 2011

I used to work in HR - the only candidates I considered for hire were people who could answer the questions I asked them during the interview process. 80% were cut immediately because they could not or would not answer basic questions. It is a basic skill that many people never learned how to perform. So, I am not surprised when I see the same thing online.

RichardBurger · Jul 13, 2011

FHII said:
Richard Berger,

I have enjoyed your posts and agree with you on everything you say that I can think of concerning the matter of grace. However, I wonder why you asked these three questions and further requested for a yes or no answer.

I can understand the frustration of people not answering the question asked. I haven't been around this board long, but I've been around many other boards (being banned from some of them because I refused to bow down to their beliefs some of the time and at other times refusing to be nice about it). But there was a method to your asking these questions. Are you planning to answer, give a rebuttal, or otherwise address it? Twenty minutes isn't a long time, but that's how long I thought to say three simple words to your question. I don't think you were looking for answers. I know "a series of questions asked in order to make a point" when I see one.

So for the sake of a new person to this board.... What's your point?

It is my way of knowing for sure what others believe at this point in their lives.

1. The sole purpose for Jesus coming to the Jews (Israel) was to setup the kingdom promised to the Jews; yes or no?

If you answer "no" then the scriptures will have you confused as to the plan of God through the ages for the nation of Israel. All prophecy in the O.T. is about a Messiah that God would send to setup a promised Kingdom for the Jews. Jesus came to offer that kingdom, "The Kingdom at Hand" but the Jews rejected it. It was the Kingdom at Hand because the promised king, Jesus, was here. The answers given help me to understand if people can really see what the scriptures teach.

2. The ministry and teachings of Jesus was to convince the Jews that He is the Messiah: yes or no?

The first 3 books of the N.T. teach how Jesus fulfilled the prophecies written about Him. Johns book is about God's love and power shown in Jesus.

3. The preaching of Paul is just a continuation of what Jesus and the 12 taught; yes or no?

If you say yes then you do not believe what Paul wrote nor what the book of Acts teaches about the transition from Law to Grace.

Three simple questions and the answers reveal alot. They reveal, to me, where a person is in their understanding of scriptures.

veteran · Jul 13, 2011

thisistheendtimes said:
veteran,

You understand correctly that TODAY'S Godly person (the N.T. worshipper of JESUS, the N.T. COMPLETE God) is what I call the "modern" worshipper (the "TRUE worshipper")....I say "COMPLETE" because in the O.T. there was only the Father and the spirit, but now, Jesus has been added/revealed.

OUR "worship" is not the same as the Israelites (the fathers of the Hebrews that lived at the time of Jesus).

Our devotion to God is NOT supposed to be based on the HOLY MOUNTAIN that WAS PHYSICALLY PRESENT.......OUR WORSHIP is now done SPIRITUALLY and also done "in TRUTH"......

John 4:21.....Jesus said the time is coming when......
"neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father".........(no more PHYSICAL worship)....

John 4:23
"But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father IN SPIRIT (SPIRITUAL worshipping).

It needs to be very well understood that, today, God wants us to worship Him SPIRITUALLY, not PHYSICALLY,....you see......God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship SPIRITUALLY.

In worshipping Jesus, we are to be living spiritually INSIDE the body that hung on the cross,......and inside Jesus, THERE ARE NO JEWS,.....neither are there any NON-JEWS (Gentiles, members of Greek civilization).

...(there were two kinds of people in those days, there were "God's chosen people" (Jews) and there were people of Greek civilization, so some scripture versions say "Gentiles" or "non-jews" and some say "Greek").

Galatians 3:28
"neither Jew nor Greek".

....also SPIRITS INSIDE JESUS have NO GENDER.....

Galatians 3:28
"neither male nor female".

That above agrees with God's Word and I do too.

You are right about "not all the jews refused Him", many went to the Council of Jerusalem and invented the religion we have today.

....

It's not important to know "bible" history or anything other than "Christ and Him crucified".

But a lot of the rest of your post I do not agree with, nor does God's Word. When Paul preached only Christ crucified, he often quoted from the Old Testament prophets in preaching The Gospel! Apostle Peter admonished us to be mindful of the prophets, especially for the last days (2 Pet.3). The religious doctrines of men have no excuse for dissecting God's Word into a small part to throw the rest away, because a lot of prophecy about the last days, and even into Christ's future reign and thereafter, is given through the OT prophets. That's why Peter said to be mindful of the prophets too, not just only the words of Christ's Apostles.

If you had been mindful of that like Peter admonished, then you would know what I was talking about. But you really don't know, but will keep applying the name Israel only to Jews out of one corner of your mouth, while quoting Galatians about neither Jew nor Greek out of the other corner. I think you refer to mostly unbelieving Jews in your mind when you use that word. It's because that's what you've been taught by the traditions of men. I'm a Protestant Christian, and I say this.

Gal 4:28
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
(KJV)

RichardBurger · Jul 13, 2011

Let me make it clear that Jesus Christ, “”by His own words,”” did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the "kingdom of heaven" TO the Gentiles. The following scriptures support my view.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

If a person says that Jesus came to minister to the Gentiles they make Jesus telling a lie in the above two verses.

Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

The above scriptures supports my view on questions 1 & 2.

1. The sole purpose for Jesus coming to the Jews (Israel) was to setup the kingdom promised to the Jews; Yes!

2. The ministry and teachings of Jesus was to convince the Jews that He is the Messiah, Yes!

No where in the first 4 books of the N.T. is there a reference to the gospel of God’s grace and if you believe Paul then you must agree that the gospel of grace was hidden in God until it was given to Paul. I didn’t say that, Paul did.

Three Questions

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