"By His stripes wr are healed"

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Very evasive.


I thought I was being quite specific. Explain.

How do you know that isn't myth also?

Direct experience with Christ. But, as I have said before, if my 'experience with Christ' ends up to be the result of neurotransmitters in my brain, and there is no God, I wouldn't change a thing. Love is my ultimate statement and act of rebellion against a godless universe. Furthermore, if God turns out to be an immoral, tyrant, as described by people who are confused about the word 'fear' in the Bible; it would be immoral for me to worship Him, and if I entered His Heaven, I would ask to leave. I refuse to worship a God who acts anyway He pleases and calls evil, good.

Instead, I worship the same God who taught Lot and Moses compassion by 'bargaining' with them. I worship the same Christ who taught the Pharisees that love was the main point of the doctrines they were enforcing on His people. I worship the same Holy Spirit that sanctifies my heart to love as a citizen of Heaven and the human being I was created to be.

BTW, myths are not lies. C.S. Lewis called Christianity a myth - a true myth.

Finally, 'certainty' is not a satisfying goal to strive for. It is overrated because it is always elusive. I equate running after certainty, as surviving; we are called to love, which involves the humility of knowing our strengths and weaknesses and thriving because the Kingdom of God is within us. Nothing else matters - the world and all the politics and scandals and end of the world scenarios mean nothing compared to knowing and loving God and neighbor. I really wish you could understand this, but it requires abandonment of fear and dualism - a renewing of the mind, a new birth.

I will pray for you.




 

Rach1370

New Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,801
107
0
44
Australia
Jesus healed those who came to Him during His ministry because He was fulfilling the prophecies and proving His divinity. While it was amazing that He healed, feed and rose some from death, He told us that was not the actual point. How many times did He have confrontations with the Pharisees, telling them that 'healing' was not the point, that repentance and forgiveness of sins was. He does not promise that life (our health, our wealth, our happiness, our families, our jobs) will be roses and sunshine. In fact He tells us that we will be persecuted, that life will be hard. Peter tells us that we will suffer for 'a little while'...that little while is our lifetime. Jesus promises us salvation, forgiveness, a new heart. He promises us perfection and alleviation of sorrow of any kind in the next life. No where does He say outright that our lives will be easy...but He does say this:


[The Rich Man and Lazarus]
[19] “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. [20] And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, [21] who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. [22] The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, [23] and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. [24] And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ [25] But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish.
(Luke 16:19-25 ESV)

Jesus tells us that if we walk past and scorn the poor and the sick, we will wish mightily that we hadn't. That pastor who left his wife to die of cancer alone, saying she was sinful and had no faith...he will one day be 'in anguish'. Jesus' words, not mine.

Ducky says that I have accused God of being unfaithful, of being a liar. I have not and do not. I call God faithful and true. I love Him and follow Him, trusting Him with all aspects of my life, knowing it could not be in better hands. I have faith in Him to perform miracles...remembering that the whole point of miracles is to bring glory to Him, not to myself. Any yet I remain unwell. Should I then bemoan my lack of faith, spend time worrying about how God's very will is apparently being suppressed by little ol' me? Or should I assume that God wants me to take what life has thrown into my path and turn that into a message of hope, for myself and for others? All things in this world should be for God's glory, and as God can and often does take bad things and turn them into good, showing His own love and goodness, why wouldn't I think that He is asking the same of me? If Jesus Himself submitted to the Father's will, wanting God's plan to come before His own self interest, how can I do any less?
Ducky, and those who believe as he does, can think I'm calling God a liar, they can do their very interesting acrobatics with scripture, but the simple fact is, people suffer. They get sick, they are poor, they are persecuted for their beliefs, they are fired unfairly, they are cheated and hurt, they die. All this happens to believers, as we are part of this fallen world until Jesus returns, it happens to those who love Jesus. It is sad, it is hard, but it does not make us less, it does not make us wrong and it certainly does not mean we think God is a liar.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marchmum

jiggyfly

New Member
Nov 27, 2009
2,750
86
0
63
North Carolina

My faith is in the God of the Bible and His promises. What is your faith in? Without the Bible we don't have any promises.


My faith is of the same as Abraham's faith who by the way Duckybill did not have a bible let alone a KJV.
tongue.gif


Abraham's faith was based on his own real experiences with God.


You obviously didn't read the Scriptures I posted that contradict what you are saying. It is according to our faith what God does for us.

Matthew 9:29 (ESV)
[sup]29 [/sup]Then he touched their eyes, saying, “According to your faith be it done to you.”

Jesus healed all who believed. Those who didn't get healed suffered from unbelief.

Matthew 13:58 (ESV)
[sup]58 [/sup]And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.

It is still the same.

What you think of this guy's healing ducky? Was he healed because of his faith???
1 Peter and John went to the Temple one afternoon to take part in the three o’clock prayer service.2 As they approached the Temple, a man lame from birth was being carried in. Each day he was put beside the Temple gate, the one called the Beautiful Gate, so he could beg from the people going into the Temple.3 When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for some money.4 Peter and John looked at him intently, and Peter said, “Look at us!”5 The lame man looked at them eagerly, expecting some money.6 But Peter said, “I don’t have any silver or gold for you. But I’ll give you what I have. In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, get up and walk!”7 Then Peter took the lame man by the right hand and helped him up. And as he did, the man’s feet and ankles were instantly healed and strengthened.8 He jumped up, stood on his feet, and began to walk! Then, walking, leaping, and praising God, he went into the Temple with them.9 All the people saw him walking and heard him praising God.10 When they realized he was the lame beggar they had seen so often at the Beautiful Gate, they were absolutely astounded!11 They all rushed out in amazement to Solomon’s Colonnade, where the man was holding tightly to Peter and John.Acts 3:1-11 (NLT)







 

Miss Hepburn

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2009
1,674
1,333
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi,
I'm sorry I couldn't read every single post - so if this has been said - excuse me.

When discussing anything - fixing a car or healing my opinion is to always ask someone that has gone to that mechanic
or has been healed. You don't have to agree - it is just a rule of thumb for me ---searching for vets, dentists - you know....go to the source someone who's gone to them..
That being said...
I studied healing for 2 years to understand it as much as possible - why do some get healed - why do some not maintain their healing, etc....you know?. What's the deal anyway?

So by the time I was healed of a severe hip ball joint issue...well, knees and heal went along with it....I understood the "pratfalls".

Briefly, I could have had the faith of a mustard seed or a mountain ---didn't matter -
I could know nothing is impossible for God and on and on...
BUT if I had a sliver of a belief in my subconcience that I "deserved" this problem. or there was a "lesson" I needed to learn, or
I was "unworthy" in anyway, or that God "teaches" people thru sickness -or any other nonsense - baby, I wouldn't be healed today,
2 years later showing off doing squats.

A double-minded person can not expect to receive the Lord's gifts -(James) ---doubt comes from the root double.

Faith is one thing -BUT belief is another.

I had to be rock solid - that I deserved to be healed , God wanted me to be healed, naturally, had the power to heal me and then to accept and receive this Gift from my Father....and on and on. And never ever doubt for a second even tho it took 4 days to manifest.

Sorry I have to run - I hope this helps someone someday maintain their healing.
And, also, I am called upon to heal people all the time by the Grace of the Holy Spirit.

So I am not just a recipient, I am an active healer now, as anyone can be on this board - just open to the Holy Spirit to
flow thru you...it is the natural course of this life that we be healthy and abundant.

Would I go to a doctor if I felt a lump in my breast ---no. I'd go to my friend Sally also a healer.
And lay my hand on myself and call on the Holy Spirit.
Gosh, I have so many stories I could tell you all!

:) Miss Hepburn
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
3,416
44
0
Oh Ducky, darling I really feel for you..in a way..I see your points...but darling...it is still up to God whether He heals or not...
It is according to our faith. You are WRONG! Already posted several quotes from God. How many have you?
I can't demand healing..
Are you saved? What makes you think so? Do you have a promise that says you are saved? Can you demand that God saves you?
we can pray for healing and speak His words on His promises..However, He heals as He desires...
You are saying that God is a liar!!!
He heals non believers ....
And your proof is?
Not by my faith, but by the grace of the Living God are we healed...
That is Satanic deception.
Have you ever been healed and have medical proof Ducky, or someone you loved healed with written reports?
Doctors have killed MILLIONS. Is that who your faith is in?
...So speak your truth as you see it and people will listen...but the truth is ...it is all God's will and desires....Ducky do you believe really that by faith that we are healed...if so please go to the nearest hospital and by your very faith...pray for healing of all the children who are dying of cancer, of abuse...Mercy..your faith is all it needs....continue to leave God where ever you have Him and heal those kids...
God's promises are for His people. He is not going to heal those who hate Him as you are promoting. Your opinion is VERY unScriptural.



Direct experience with Christ.
But which Christ? The Jesus of the Bible? Not likely since you believe the Bible is myth.



Jesus healed those who came to Him during His ministry because He was fulfilling the prophecies and proving His divinity.
You are evading the FACT that He healed all those came to Him with faith in the NT. Your opinion is unScriptural.



My faith is of the same as Abraham's faith who by the way Duckybill did not have a bible let alone a KJV.
tongue.gif


Abraham's faith was based on his own real experiences with God.

What you think of this guy's healing ducky? Was he healed because of his faith???
1 Peter and John went to the Temple one afternoon to take part in the three o’clock prayer service.2 As they approached the Temple, a man lame from birth was being carried in. Each day he was put beside the Temple gate, the one called the Beautiful Gate, so he could beg from the people going into the Temple.3 When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for some money.4 Peter and John looked at him intently, and Peter said, “Look at us!”5 The lame man looked at them eagerly, expecting some money.6 But Peter said, “I don’t have any silver or gold for you. But I’ll give you what I have. In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, get up and walk!”7 Then Peter took the lame man by the right hand and helped him up. And as he did, the man’s feet and ankles were instantly healed and strengthened.8 He jumped up, stood on his feet, and began to walk! Then, walking, leaping, and praising God, he went into the Temple with them.9 All the people saw him walking and heard him praising God.10 When they realized he was the lame beggar they had seen so often at the Beautiful Gate, they were absolutely astounded!11 They all rushed out in amazement to Solomon’s Colonnade, where the man was holding tightly to Peter and John.Acts 3:1-11 (NLT)
If everyone is going to be saved, what does anything matter Jiggy?

 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
yikes, another case of TexUs?.....off the deep end
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rach1370

marchmum

New Member
Apr 20, 2011
2
1
0
75
Ireland
With regard to my original post, I have found extremely interesting, the various points of view given. I had stated in that post part of a sentence which read, " made me wonder where the love of Christ was in all this". I believe that statement was wrong. I have never doubted nor will ever doubt the love of my Lord for me and those who love Him, even with all our weaknesses and mustard seed faith. The statement should have been, "where was the Christian love in all this". For scripture says, John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another also Galatians 6:2 bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. Surely that does not mean only those without health issues.

I have found Duckybill's comments most impressive. He reminds me so much of the "shepherd" mentioned in my previous post who wielded the scriptures in such a slash and burn way that even the mongolian hoards of old, would have been impressed by it. I am sure that is not Duckybill's intention. The "shepherd" of the fellowship of which I was part of, was extremely proud of his knowledge of scripture and he would brook no view other than his. Sort of my way or the highway attitude. I have forgiven him all the hurt and anger both the lady in question and myself suffered at his hands by giving it up to the Lord. I do know that one day, he will have to give an account of his work as a shepherd to the Lord, as we all will. It has been difficult for both of us, but we live in His strength day by day. I also believe that the Lord was teaching us to trust in Him and His Word more, and less in a fragile human being who felt he was doing God's work by being abusive.

We both now fellowship at another church where the worship of Christ is celebrated and not mourned and where a person who happens to be in a wheelchair or has some other health issues is not harangued for their so called lack of faith, but are welcomed as a brother or sister in Christ.

The Lord is my strength and my shield.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rach1370

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
3,416
44
0
With regard to my original post, I have found extremely interesting, the various points of view given. I had stated in that post part of a sentence which read, " made me wonder where the love of Christ was in all this". I believe that statement was wrong. I have never doubted nor will ever doubt the love of my Lord for me and those who love Him, even with all our weaknesses and mustard seed faith. The statement should have been, "where was the Christian love in all this". For scripture says, John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another also Galatians 6:2 bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. Surely that does not mean only those without health issues.

I have found Duckybill's comments most impressive. He reminds me so much of the "shepherd" mentioned in my previous post who wielded the scriptures in such a slash and burn way that even the mongolian hoards of old, would have been impressed by it. I am sure that is not Duckybill's intention. The "shepherd" of the fellowship of which I was part of, was extremely proud of his knowledge of scripture and he would brook no view other than his. Sort of my way or the highway attitude. I have forgiven him all the hurt and anger both the lady in question and myself suffered at his hands by giving it up to the Lord. I do know that one day, he will have to give an account of his work as a shepherd to the Lord, as we all will. It has been difficult for both of us, but we live in His strength day by day. I also believe that the Lord was teaching us to trust in Him and His Word more, and less in a fragile human being who felt he was doing God's work by being abusive.

We both now fellowship at another church where the worship of Christ is celebrated and not mourned and where a person who happens to be in a wheelchair or has some other health issues is not harangued for their so called lack of faith, but are welcomed as a brother or sister in Christ.

The Lord is my strength and my shield.
Jesus healed all who had faith. Those who don't have faith do not get healed. Pretty simple.

 

Rach1370

New Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,801
107
0
44
Australia
It has been said that those who think as I do are wrong, that we are under a satanic deception, that our thoughts are unBiblical and that we have no proof and are in all points, evading fact. That we are completely ignoring what scripture says to us. Those are bold accusations and would be weighty indeed if they were true. They are not, however...

In looking through Jesus' ministry, lets look at what He taught and the occasions He healed.
Luke 5:12-16 The beggar says to Jesus "Lord if you will, you can make me clean"...Jesus answers "I will, be clean". The man does not demand Jesus heals him for his faith is strong. No, he leaves it in Jesus' hands.

Luke 5:17-26 Jesus heals a paralytic, and we see that due to their faith, their sins are forgiven. It is only when the Pharisees object to this action that Jesus proves His point with healing. He says "which is easier, to say 'Your sins are forgiven you,' or say 'Rise and walk?' But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins".

Luke 6:9 Again we see the Pharisees objecting and Jesus healing to prove a point. The Pharisees are just waiting for Jesus to break one of their rules so they may have a reason to kill Him, and they know a man with a withered hand is there...they are watching eagerly. Jesus says to them..."I ask you, is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or destroy it?" He then heals the man. We are not told if the healed man has 'enough faith' or not, he is almost besides the point in this story, it is all about the lesson to the Pharisees.

Matthew 5:3-12 The Beatitudes. This is an interesting lesson. Please note the sentiment within it. No where does it suggest that those who are healthy, wealthy and feel entitled to such things are to 'inherit the kingdom of God'. No, blessed, says Jesus, are those who are poor, who are hungry, who are sad, who are hated and spurned. Kinda opposite to what the "prosperity gospel" people teach.

Luke 7:18-23 We see here when John asks Jesus if He truly is Messiah, that Jesus answers that question by doing miracles, fulfilling prophecy so that John may know. Clearly, this is scriptural, and it is not evading fact.

Luke 9:23 tell us this: "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow." It seems to me that Christians who think it is their due for God to jump to and provide their comforts, both materialistically and physically, are not really 'denying themselves'...more like twisting biblical text to 'indulge themselves'.

Luke 10:19 says "Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you." I think this is a very interesting point. 'Prosperity gospel' believers would have us believe that every verse that says 'I will heal you' is to be taken for all of us, right now. However, this verse clearly shows us that that is not always the case. Christians are dying by the hundreds all over the world...by the millions in the vast corridor of history. This promise was to the disciples, just then...it was not even for their future, as we know most of them died horrible deaths for their beliefs. So it cannot be a logical or rational belief that Christians are safe from harm today...likewise it is not rational to conclude miraculous healing is for every Christian, as clearly there are dedicated and faithful believers today who are sick.

Luke 14:21 The parable of the Great Banquet. This parable illustrates those who put material possessions before the kingdom of God. The result? "God out quickly to the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor and crippled and blind and lame." Prosperity gospel people would have the unwell believe they don't have enough faith...that we are 'lesser Christians' compared to those who are obviously well and rich. Apparently God doesn't see it that way.

Of course there is Luke 16:19-31...Lazarus and the rich man...as I said before, Jesus taught that those who look down on the poor and unwell will wish they hadn't.

John 5:1-17 Jesus heals a paralysed man who is lying beside the 'healing pool'. Jesus asks the man if he wants to be healed, and how did the man answer? That he couldn't get into the pool. This man thought a pool would heal him, not Christ. Jesus still healed him, telling him to sin no more.

John 9:1-7 Jesus heals the blind man. He said "It was not that this man sinner, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him."

And of course John 11:1-16 The death of Lazarus. "This illness does not lead to death. It is for the glory of God, so the the Son of God may be glorified through it." these last two quotes are priceless. All things to bring glory to God. When it comes down to it, it is up to God to decide how and through what He will use to bring glory to Himself. In these verses He uses both healing of sickness and of death itself to do that. Jesus chose to let Lazarus die before healing him. To so many that did not make sense...Jesus could have healed him while he was still sick...at a distance at that! But no, God has grander designs that we can ever know. I say God's will be done, be that healing or sickness.

There are many, many more. This is not even touching on verses that discuss illness, suffering or the "God will give me anything I ask for" verses. But at the least, I hope that I will not be accused of pulling my opinions out of air and ignorance.
 

Rach1370

New Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,801
107
0
44
Australia
The bottom line is that Jesus healed all who believed. Why don't you?

bottom line..I do believe, but am not healed. As you say, that ultimately (if one believes what you're pushing) means that either God is lying, or His plan for me and others like me, is something else. God does not lie, I will not let people like you make me doubt my faith or try to destroy my relationship with God, so I choose to trust.

Why is it Ducky, that you cannot argue this with a semblance of love? You are harsh, critical and actually down right mean. This is one big problem I have with 'prosperity gospel' types...your message is one despair and degradation. All those things that you have accused me of are just wrong...you did not take the time to discover this, nor did you say "I think she has scripture wrong, I think she can be well, I will tell her this with love and encouragement". No, you did not. And this tells me more than anything else...every single person I have ever had contact with that holds the same beliefs as you do, has treated me with contempt. One person even told me I should go and stick myself with and AIDS needle, so I could be sick all the time. You are foolish, and you have no hope of understanding me, my life or my faith. Shame on you and all who think like you. Even should it turn out in the end that you were right theologically, I cannot think that Jesus will be pleased with your "holier than thou" attitude that you have spewed these last few days. Not a single sentence you posted gave me any hope that you actually had any human or Christian feelings towards the people you were calling liars, unfaithful, demonically deceived etc etc.

I do not usually let loose like this, but I do not think you can conceive of the harm you and those like you have done...to both Christians who need love and encouragement through their illnesses, and to the name of Christianity itself. If you hold true, you will dismiss this with cutting words, but I pray that the Holy Spirit might actually convict you, and from here on in you will argue your beliefs with some love and kindness at least.
 

Miss Hepburn

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2009
1,674
1,333
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thanks guys - sorry for the typos tho - my knees and heel got healed also .


One month later my friend Sally came over to talk about everything.
I asked her if she had ever healed anyone - "No."
I said," Well you aren't leaving unil you heal my knee." (Really only one knee was bad when I had gone for the official healing)

See, 2 days before Sally came over my other knee had a sharp steak knife stabbing pain in it for no reason!
It just happened suddenly getting the mail.

So, I made her not be shy and she said a few words over my knee as she was leaving ---- and to this day 1 year and 11 months and
14 days later have never had another pain in that knee.

I repeatedly told her this for a few months - that she had it "goin' on" and should not be timid about being an active healer.
She has since enrolled in a Bible College that actively "trains" healers and does it all the time now. Trains as in
reading scripture..
I went to a weekend workshop with the guy, Curry Blake -the head guy for the John G. Lake Foundation and he indeed knows how to "pump people up" - banshing all doubt from our minds to be the inheritors that we are - joint heirs with Christ.
:) Miss Hepburn
 
  • Like
Reactions: gregg

Foreigner

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,583
123
0
bottom line..I do believe, but am not healed. As you say, that ultimately (if one believes what you're pushing) means that either God is lying, or His plan for me and others like me, is something else. God does not lie, I will not let people like you make me doubt my faith or try to destroy my relationship with God, so I choose to trust.

Why is it Ducky, that you cannot argue this with a semblance of love? You are harsh, critical and actually down right mean. This is one big problem I have with 'prosperity gospel' types...your message is one despair and degradation. All those things that you have accused me of are just wrong...you did not take the time to discover this, nor did you say "I think she has scripture wrong, I think she can be well, I will tell her this with love and encouragement". No, you did not. And this tells me more than anything else...every single person I have ever had contact with that holds the same beliefs as you do, has treated me with contempt. One person even told me I should go and stick myself with and AIDS needle, so I could be sick all the time. You are foolish, and you have no hope of understanding me, my life or my faith. Shame on you and all who think like you. Even should it turn out in the end that you were right theologically, I cannot think that Jesus will be pleased with your "holier than thou" attitude that you have spewed these last few days. Not a single sentence you posted gave me any hope that you actually had any human or Christian feelings towards the people you were calling liars, unfaithful, demonically deceived etc etc.

I do not usually let loose like this, but I do not think you can conceive of the harm you and those like you have done...to both Christians who need love and encouragement through their illnesses, and to the name of Christianity itself. If you hold true, you will dismiss this with cutting words, but I pray that the Holy Spirit might actually convict you, and from here on in you will argue your beliefs with some love and kindness at least.


-- Kudos to you Rach.
You said exactly what needed to be said.