Adam's age ...

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antonio

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This AGE is 6,000 years old and so is man. This world is not, it is much older. God didn't create us as 6 day (6 of his days) experiment. It goes much deeper and it's all there in the Word. I follow no man, but that doesn't mean I can agree with some of them to varying degrees. The most important being Jesus the Christ is our Lord and Savior who died for our sins on the cross.
Denver, respectfully, because I am just a beginner, but I don't see any source being quoted. This appears to be your opinion. That's ok. I respect your opinion.I'm in the medical profession and we'er taught opinions with out reasons are of no consequence within our discipline.antonio
 

antonio

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Dear RND---I read Murray but don't see anything that responds to my post.Also, I question if the list you gave are actually Murray's beliefs--some seem a little crackpotish to me. So I am sticking with Jesus--he gave us the whole law, love God and love EVERYONE else. If something doesn't fit into that command, I reject it or reject it's literal or apparnet meaning. If these are verses from the Bible, they do warrant serious thought and study, and , I try to do that.antonio
 

HammerStone

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Denver, respectfully, because I am just a beginner, but I don't see any source being quoted. This appears to be your opinion. That's ok. I respect your opinion.I'm in the medical profession and we'er taught opinions with out reasons are of no consequence within our discipline.
My sources are listed in the Bible study at the top of this community's homepage. http://www.christianityboard.com/earth-age...-study-t79.html As for the timeline. Sit down when you have the time on your hands and count it up. There is a wonderful timeline that does this in the Companion Bible and it is based solely on Biblical dates and times.
 

RND

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I'll stand behind Murray on his teachings, but this is not his teaching. It's in the Bible and it was taught long before Arnold Murray came along. The problem is, it was just hidden by the nonsensical doctrines of man such as the fairytale myths that have come around as a part of popular culture and the church. Satan is actually addressed as a man on several occasions. One of them occurs in Ezekiel 28. Angels are commonly addressed as such. Gabriel's name translates to "man of God." This AGE is 6,000 years old and so is man. This world is not, it is much older. God didn't create us as 6 day (6 of his days) experiment. It goes much deeper and it's all there in the Word. I follow no man, but that doesn't mean I can agree with some of them to varying degrees. The most important being Jesus the Christ is our Lord and Savior who died for our sins on the cross.
Denver, do you believe death came before sin or as a result of it?
 

RND

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Dear RND---I read Murray but don't see anything that responds to my post.Also, I question if the list you gave are actually Murray's beliefs--some seem a little crackpotish to me. So I am sticking with Jesus--he gave us the whole law, love God and love EVERYONE else. If something doesn't fit into that command, I reject it or reject it's literal or apparnet meaning. If these are verses from the Bible, they do warrant serious thought and study, and , I try to do that.antonio
Antonio, I just provided the information so you would have a bit of clarity, no judgments have been made with respect to the students of this teacher. As I said, there are a few beliefs here that I'm in agreement with, and there are some that I find myself in agreement with your assessment.
 

betchevy

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RND, you have once again shown your true nature and I for one do not wish to play with you any longer every thing you have posted about Arnold Murray are a matter of the use of translation and the original texts... Your "church" make people become vegetarian... which is not even biblical ... You attack me and my Pastor earlier.. and I thin you tried to here again. You believe Christ lied about Lazarus and the rich man that people lie dead for thousands of years and we will live in flesh bodies for enternity and so many more unbiblical things.. too many to mention... but its the attacks on me and my church that force me to pretend you do not exist, I will not reply to you or read anything you write here any more... you do not have a Chrsit like spirit or nature and Arnold Murray would never say one word against your church, he would read the Bible word for word front to back and let his students see the true nature for themselves...he probably would scold me for doing so...
 

RND

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RND, you have once again shown your true nature and I for one do not wish to play with you any longer every thing you have posted are a matter of the use of translation and the original texts...
What are you talking about, I didn't even address you or one of your posts.
Your "church" make people become vegetarian...
That's news to me. I'm not a vegetarian.
which is not even a biblical premise...
That would be false before sin, true after sin. However, since there won't be any death in the new heavens you'll have to get used to no meat, only the fruit from the tree of life!
YOu attack me and my Pastor earlier you believe Christ lied about Lazarus and the rich man and so many more unbiblical things.. too many to mention...
I don't recall discussing Luke 16:19-31 but we can, it's a great study!
but its the attacks that force me to pretend tyou do not exist, I will not reply to you or read anything you write here any more...
Promise?
you do not have a Chrsit like spirit or nature
That's judgmental!
and Arnoln Murray would never say one word against you chruch, he would read the Bible word for word front to back and let his students see the true nature for themselves...
From just a bit ago I said: "As I said, there are a few beliefs here that I'm in agreement with, and there are some that I find myself in agreement with your assessment."
 

Jordan

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Denver, do you believe death came before sin or as a result of it?
He does believe that death is a result of sin. However Satan's another name or title(?) is Death. Look below scripture.Revelation 6:8 - And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

betchevy

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RND has read everything I have given Jeremiah 8 and Peter 3 to him to read guys he's another one of those who come here to destroy rather than teach.. no sense in trying to dissuade those.
 

RND

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He does believe that death is a result of sin. However Satan's another name or title(?) is Death. Look below scripture.Revelation 6:8 - And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
According to the Strong's (that I got from the Sheppards Chapel BTW) the word death here is not a proper name but simple, regular old death just like in other places of the Bible.#2288 thanatos - (prop. an adj. as a noun) death (lit. or fig.)
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
For the wages of sin is Satan....?
Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
Amen!
 

HammerStone

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Denver, do you believe death came before sin or as a result of it?
Genesis 2:17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Romans 6:23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

HammerStone

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According to the Strong's (that I got from the Sheppards Chapel BTW) the word death here is not a proper name but simple, regular old death just like in other places of the Bible.#2288 thanatos - (prop. an adj. as a noun) death (lit. or fig.)
I do not mean this to come off as stinging as it probably will, but a concept nor a state of (non)being cannot sit on a horse. Satan is death personified the same way. Notice the pronoun "him" that follows.
 

Jordan

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(thesuperjag)
He does believe that death is a result of sin. However Satan's another name or title(?) is Death. Look below scripture.Revelation 6:8 - And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
According to the Strong's (that I got from the Sheppards Chapel BTW) the word death here is not a proper name but simple, regular old death just like in other places of the Bible.#2288 thanatos - (prop. an adj. as a noun) death (lit. or fig.) (thesuperjag)
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
For the wages of sin is Satan....?(thesuperjag)
Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
Amen!Although I am not in Shephard Chapel...yet without a Strongs, It's clearly obviously that Lucifer was the first man/angel that sinned. He sinned against his Maker. But Adam was the first man in a flesh body that sinned...but much later than the one Lucifer had done. Therefore the word Death with a capital D does indeed suits him.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
smile.gif
 

betchevy

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RND the point is what is this doing here in this thread? you are WARNING about Pastor Murray and us... the people here, you have been using Murray's name again and again... this time you even go way off topic this thread isn't about what Tama want to discuss any more, but a battle between your religion and my pastor.you have said :suppose that explains why Arnold Murray, and for that matter most protestants, keep the sabbath of Rome and not the Biblical sabbath.I understand it, I just don't buy Arnold Murray's teaching that's allAnd you have bought hook, line and sinker the utterly confusing and non-sensical teachings of Arnold Murray. (which, by the way, it where I got my Strong's from!) Arnold and Dennis Murray are the most confused pastor's in America. Now Arnold Murray teaches that when God commanded Noah to take 2 of all flesh that also included 2 of the evil children of Cain.Plus this post in this thread with as pointed out does not apply to it,Directly to me you have said:Climb down off of your high horse, your rudeness is astounding.Man, such vitirol! You sound extremely bitter, nasty and astonishingly rudeUm, I meant the OP, not every one of my posts. Duh-ohI just asked a simple question that you haven't answered.( I hadn't been on line)I also have politely asked you to lay of my pastor and me and lets treat one another in a more Christ like fashion...and this is the result... Swamp I would ask you to move this and all other impertinant post out of Tama's thread for it has indeed been highjacked...
 

RND

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I do not mean this to come off as stinging as it probably will, but a concept nor a state of (non)being cannot sit on a horse. Satan is death personified the same way. Notice the pronoun "him" that follows.
Um, you didn't come off as stinging. Give yourself a little credit. Is it possible that the verse in question, Rev. 6:8, is a word picture or visualization of something that isn't in the future, but something that has occurred already?I find about 2/3 of Revelation to be related to the Old Testament so I was wondering if this is a "literal" or narrative" description.
 

antonio

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At the end of verse one, there is a period that signifies the completion of a thought. However, it is important to understand that an unspecified period of time passes between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis. How do we "understand" this? Because of a period? Who says there is a time gap. wasn't it all completed in 6 days and on the 7th He rested? We're going to look at some very specific words in the first part of Genesis 1:2.Genesis 1:2 KJVAnd the earth was* without form*, and void*; and darkness* was upon the face of the deep* .* And the Spirit of Godmoved upon the face of the waters.was - The word used here for was is the Hebrew word hayah which means "became." This clearly says that the earth was not created this way but it became this way! I have to disagree with you. Nothing simply "became this way. God created everything. Perhaps your subscribing to the ancient view of many gods?-----------------------------------Strongs DefinitionHebrew word #1961 hayah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare 1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary)-----------------------------------without form - this is translated from the Hebrew word tohuw which means to lie waste; a desolation. Again, you cannot lie waste to something unless there was something that was originally there. What ever it was called, it was God's pallet and on that pallet he created the earth. Nothing existed before him and he created everything.-----------------------------------Strongs DefinitionHebrew word #8414 tohuw (to'-hoo);from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain: KJV-- confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.-----------------------------------void - Hebrew bohuw which means a ruin. Obviously, our mighty Creator God did not create a world full of ruin!"Ruin" is simply a word. Nothing is obvious in Biblical translation. Do you want to find out what is obvious to men, or what God said? God can and does create ruins. Parts of the earth and the Cosmos are ruins. God created everything unless you believe in another God who created before my God existed. I reject that.-----------------------------------Strongs DefinitionHebrew word #922 bohuw (bo'-hoo);from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: KJV-- emptiness, void.-----------------------------------And again, I disagree. God created the vast regions of the cosmos, the black holes, black matter, even the area that doesn't exist according to phyiscs into which the cosmos moves and expands.darkness - choshek, the Hebrew word used here, specifially means to become dark, or darkened. Again, we have this same theme of becoming this way and not orginally being created this way.-----------------------------------Strongs DefinitionHebrew word #2822 choshek (kho-shek');from 2821; the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively, misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness: KJV-- dark (-ness), night, obscurity.-----------------------------------deep - this corresponds, as we will see later on, with the verses in II Peter 3:5-6 KJV. I'll save this explanation until we get to that point. However, you can look over the verses if you so desire. This is not talking about Noah's flood.-----------------------------------Strongs DefinitionHebrew word #8415 tehowm (teh-home'); or tehom (teh-home');(usually feminine) from 1949; an abyss (as a surging mass of water), especially the deep (the main sea or the subterranean water-supply): KJV-- deep (place), depth.-----------------------------------Finally, notice again the period at the end of the first part. This period represents the beginning of creation as we know it today.I disagree. First off, a period does not have that connotation. Secondly, hebrew was written as well as all ancient languages with out punctuation or spaces between words or thoughts. Trying to prove your point with a period gives the point the significance of a dot. If this is Strongs thinking, I respectfull urge you to consult another source. Now we shall move ahead in the Old Testament to the wonderful book of Isaiah. We see from Isaiah 45:18-19 KJV that God created the world not void and without form, but that it became thisIsaiah 45:18-19For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.The key word in these two verses is the Hebrew word used for vain. The Hebrew word is our old friend tohuw! God did not create the world as a vain (dark, runied, etc.) world, but he created it to be inhabited. You simply take a adverb (meaning "with no useful purpose") and make it a noun with your own definition. Who is this guy, Strong. He sounds like Humpty Dumpty-=words mean what he says they mean.-Again we head back to Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.From what we know so far, we see in a paraphrase, that God has created both heaven and earth and the earth became dark, runied, and void. It's now clear that the world was not created this way. We see clearly that there is indeed a gap of an unknown time period between verses 1 and 2.From here, the creation of the earth in this age moves on beginning with the latter part of verse 2: "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." This "Spirit of God" being the Holy Spirit.You will not find a verse in the Bible that explains how much time transpired. We now know that another world, or age, existed before this one and that is was destroyed by our Father. No one nor anything was spared from this destruction as we will learn and the age was ended. This is clearly not describing the flood of Noah because, as Genesis tells us, Noah and two of every flesh survive the flood.The First Earth AgeSo what was the first earth age? This first age was inhabited by us, but not in the flesh form in which we are now. As Genesis tells us later, God created our current bodies from the dust of the earth. We had no physical bodies but animals did exist. This explains the remains of fossils found on this earth that date back millions of years but the lack of any human remains that date back so long.My previous instincts were correct. STrong is simply re writing of the Bible to explain the scientific evidence of an ancient world older than 6000 years and the fossils. Unfortunately, the wackos who have come up with this are not only blasphmous, they have come up with a story as silly as believing the earth is flat, balanced on the back of a giant turtle. It's silly because it is pathetically transparent. God can create anything according to any plan, so in that respect it is not silly. Without God clear word--which He is perfectly capable of, I have to reject this entire lesson. I wont respond further.We had bodies, but in the form of spiritual bodies. When we died, we returned to God just as well will when we die in this age. We're now in two bodies. There is the soul, which returns to God, and then there is the physical body which returns to dust.Luke 20:34-36 KJVAnd Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.1 Cor 15:44 KJVIt is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.If you have any questions about this lesson, please ask them. I'll do my best to address any and all questions and change my wording if things are unclear.You have my questions.
 

RND

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Although I am not in Shephard Chapel...yet without a Strongs, It's clearly obviously that Lucifer was the first man/angel that sinned. He sinned against his Maker.
I agree that Satan "sinned" in the Heavenlies, and as a result was cast to Heaven with 1/3 of the angels. Revelation 12:7
But Adam was the first man in a flesh body that sinned...but much later than the one Lucifer had done. Therefore the word Death with a capital D does indeed suits him.
That doesn't seem to register with me. I agree that death suits Satan because his lies are responsible for sin, but how does that translate into that being his name? I don't see the connection. Jesus said, "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." How does this relate to what you are suggesting?
Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
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Amen!
 

Jordan

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But Adam was the first man in a flesh body that sinned...but much later than the one Lucifer had done. Therefore the word Death with a capital D does indeed suits him.
(RND)
That doesn't seem to register with me. I agree that death suits Satan because his lies are responsible for sin, but how does that translate into that being his name? I don't see the connection. Jesus said, "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." How does this relate to what you are suggesting?
That why I used a (?) for the word title because death suits him...so Death can be easily a title for him.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
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HammerStone

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Is it possible that the verse in question, Rev. 6:8, is a word picture or visualization of something that isn't in the future, but something that has occurred already?I find about 2/3 of Revelation to be related to the Old Testament so I was wondering if this is a "literal" or narrative" description.
I know where you're going with this, and by the way that you interpret it, my answer is no. However, Revelation does span through the ages with Revelation 12 being the pinnacle of that spanning all the way back to the first earth age. In fact, Revelation 12 covers the most amount of time of any chapter of the Bible.I Corinthians 15:52-54In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?Only then, at the 7th trump, is Death defeated and what is written is fulfilled.I'll address your points/questions in the next post, antonio.
 

RND

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I know where you're going with this, and by the way that you interpret it, my answer is no.
So there are literal monsters with 7 heads and 10 horns? Or does that sysmbolize something?
However, Revelation does span through the ages with Revelation 12 being the pinnacle of that spanning all the way back to the first earth age. In fact, Revelation 12 covers the most amount of time of any chapter of the Bible.
I'm confused. To my question you said no, that it was not possible that Rev. 6:8 is a word picture or visualization of something that has occurred already. Yet Revelation 12 is. Now, I agree Revelation 12 has already happened, but I guess you're saying Rev. 6 hasn't happen.How do we know which have happened and which haven't?
I Corinthians 15:52-54In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The last day on earth for a 1000 years.