So there are literal monsters with 7 heads and 10 horns? Or does that sysmbolize something?
Why ever would you draw that conclusion from what I said?? You already know the interpretation given in the Bible of the beast. I'm simply going to say this question has already been answered by the Bible and discussed in another thread. You know the answer.
I'm confused. To my question you said no, that it was not possible that Rev. 6:8 is a word picture or visualization of something that has occurred already. Yet Revelation 12 is. Now, I agree Revelation 12 has already happened, but I guess you're saying Rev. 6 hasn't happen.How do we know which have happened and which haven't?
I simply do not agree with your line of thinking that much of Revelation deals only with a certain church and that it has already happened. I'm pointing out that I do not agree with that line of thinking when I point out that some of Revelation has already happened. However, the vast and arguably most important chunk of it has not.To answer your last question there, we know through Scripture. It's not a matter of a square peg in a circular hole. It's not a matter of vague generalizations. It's something that a Christian will be able to look at - and by Christian I mean someone who is versed in God's Word - and point out as the beast and as the lamb that speaks as a dragon. It's not going to be pick your favorite church leaders and heads of states to fill the roles.=====================================================As promised, antonio:
How do we "understand" this? Because of a period? Who says there is a time gap. wasn't it all completed in 6 days and on the 7th He rested?
The period is a simple little tool in the English languages. Just as I will put one at the end of my sentences, it signifies the end of a thought.If it were read this way:In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, and the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.I'd frankly have much less of a case. This is not, by any stretch of the imagination, all that teaches this in the Bible, but this makes the point quite well. Instead, we have:In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.On it's own, it doesn't mean much. However, we have another key tucked away in Jeremiah that means everything:Isaiah 45:18-19 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.The word used for vain is the exact same one that is used in Genesis 1:2. So, we have a problem supposing that God created this world as a formless and void mass. We know from other uses of the word that it means to become. Keep in mind that we're not using the English, which was translated. We're going back to the Hebrew.
I have to disagree with you. Nothing simply "became this way. God created everything. Perhaps your subscribing to the ancient view of many gods?
This has nothing to do with gods. Anyone who knows me well enough knows that I certainly don't believe in any nonsensical gods. There is one God and this has nothing whatsoever to do with gods.
What ever it was called, it was God's pallet and on that pallet he created the earth. Nothing existed before him and he created everything.
I see a real tendency to put words in my mouth here. Once again, I never said such a thing. The mere idea that ANYTHING pre-existed God is hogwash.
"Ruin" is simply a word. Nothing is obvious in Biblical translation. Do you want to find out what is obvious to men, or what God said? God can and does create ruins. Parts of the earth and the Cosmos are ruins. God created everything unless you believe in another God who created before my God existed. I reject that.
God says in Isaiah 45:18-19, I didn't create it to be a ruin. For what reason would he go against what he himself has said? He wouldn't.
You simply take a adverb (meaning "with no useful purpose") and make it a noun with your own definition. Who is this guy, Strong. He sounds like Humpty Dumpty-=words mean what he says they mean.-
You'd be a mile off in that assessment my friend. A state of being is not a noun.
My previous instincts were correct. STrong is simply re writing of the Bible to explain the scientific evidence of an ancient world older than 6000 years and the fossils. Unfortunately, the wackos who have come up with this are not only blasphmous, they have come up with a story as silly as believing the earth is flat, balanced on the back of a giant turtle. It's silly because it is pathetically transparent. God can create anything according to any plan, so in that respect it is not silly. Without God clear word--which He is perfectly capable of, I have to reject this entire lesson. I wont respond further.
Fair enough, participation is voluntary. I'm glad you feel so highly of yourself in that you have not quoted one line of Scripture or anything outside of person opinion to back what you believe up. Not to mention the attempts to change the lesson. But hey, whatever floats your boat, right?
Why ever would you draw that conclusion from what I said?? You already know the interpretation given in the Bible of the beast. I'm simply going to say this question has already been answered by the Bible and discussed in another thread. You know the answer.
I'm confused. To my question you said no, that it was not possible that Rev. 6:8 is a word picture or visualization of something that has occurred already. Yet Revelation 12 is. Now, I agree Revelation 12 has already happened, but I guess you're saying Rev. 6 hasn't happen.How do we know which have happened and which haven't?
I simply do not agree with your line of thinking that much of Revelation deals only with a certain church and that it has already happened. I'm pointing out that I do not agree with that line of thinking when I point out that some of Revelation has already happened. However, the vast and arguably most important chunk of it has not.To answer your last question there, we know through Scripture. It's not a matter of a square peg in a circular hole. It's not a matter of vague generalizations. It's something that a Christian will be able to look at - and by Christian I mean someone who is versed in God's Word - and point out as the beast and as the lamb that speaks as a dragon. It's not going to be pick your favorite church leaders and heads of states to fill the roles.=====================================================As promised, antonio:
How do we "understand" this? Because of a period? Who says there is a time gap. wasn't it all completed in 6 days and on the 7th He rested?
The period is a simple little tool in the English languages. Just as I will put one at the end of my sentences, it signifies the end of a thought.If it were read this way:In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, and the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.I'd frankly have much less of a case. This is not, by any stretch of the imagination, all that teaches this in the Bible, but this makes the point quite well. Instead, we have:In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.On it's own, it doesn't mean much. However, we have another key tucked away in Jeremiah that means everything:Isaiah 45:18-19 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.The word used for vain is the exact same one that is used in Genesis 1:2. So, we have a problem supposing that God created this world as a formless and void mass. We know from other uses of the word that it means to become. Keep in mind that we're not using the English, which was translated. We're going back to the Hebrew.
I have to disagree with you. Nothing simply "became this way. God created everything. Perhaps your subscribing to the ancient view of many gods?
This has nothing to do with gods. Anyone who knows me well enough knows that I certainly don't believe in any nonsensical gods. There is one God and this has nothing whatsoever to do with gods.
What ever it was called, it was God's pallet and on that pallet he created the earth. Nothing existed before him and he created everything.
I see a real tendency to put words in my mouth here. Once again, I never said such a thing. The mere idea that ANYTHING pre-existed God is hogwash.
"Ruin" is simply a word. Nothing is obvious in Biblical translation. Do you want to find out what is obvious to men, or what God said? God can and does create ruins. Parts of the earth and the Cosmos are ruins. God created everything unless you believe in another God who created before my God existed. I reject that.
God says in Isaiah 45:18-19, I didn't create it to be a ruin. For what reason would he go against what he himself has said? He wouldn't.
You simply take a adverb (meaning "with no useful purpose") and make it a noun with your own definition. Who is this guy, Strong. He sounds like Humpty Dumpty-=words mean what he says they mean.-
You'd be a mile off in that assessment my friend. A state of being is not a noun.
My previous instincts were correct. STrong is simply re writing of the Bible to explain the scientific evidence of an ancient world older than 6000 years and the fossils. Unfortunately, the wackos who have come up with this are not only blasphmous, they have come up with a story as silly as believing the earth is flat, balanced on the back of a giant turtle. It's silly because it is pathetically transparent. God can create anything according to any plan, so in that respect it is not silly. Without God clear word--which He is perfectly capable of, I have to reject this entire lesson. I wont respond further.
Fair enough, participation is voluntary. I'm glad you feel so highly of yourself in that you have not quoted one line of Scripture or anything outside of person opinion to back what you believe up. Not to mention the attempts to change the lesson. But hey, whatever floats your boat, right?
