Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Kermos · Oct 10, 2021

Kermos · Nov 26, 2021

Tong2020 said:
To whom did Jesus say “you did not choose Me, but I chose you"? He said them to the 12 disciples, though not for Judas Iscariot. (John 13)

Tong
R4067

JESUS' USE OF CONSTRAINED "YOU" VERSUS JESUS' USE OF UNCONSTRAINED "YOU"

Jesus employs the constrained form of "you" in the question "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?" (John 6:70).

In John 6:70, "the twelve" constrains the audience for the first occurrence of the word "you".

Nowhere during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17 does Jesus constrain the word "you" with something like "the twelve" similar to when Jesus was not at the supper saying "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?" (John 6:70); therefore, Jesus uses the unconstrained form of "you" during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17.

Since Judas had departed (John 13:21-30) from the supper by the time Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation), then Jesus uses the unconstrained "you" to include all Christ's disciples in all time.

As with "you" and "the twelve", Jesus didn't say "the eleven" during the supper.

The Master Orator Jesus Christ utilizes the unconstrained form of the word "you" during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17 thus He includes all His disciples in all time because of His use of the word "you" with His sayings of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.

IN YOUR HEART, YOU STEAL THE AUTHORITY IN YOUR CLAIM TO CAUSE YOUR OWN BEING SAVED FROM THE WRATH OF GOD BY YOUR CHOOSING JESUS BECAUSE WITHOUT CHOOSING JESUS THERE IS NO BEING SAVED FOR YOU FREE-WILLIANS (2 PETER 2:9-10)

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.

Related post 1: more disciples present at supper

Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)

Related post 4: Lord Jesus says "what I say to you I say to all" believers in Jesus Mark 13:37)

Related post 5: Lord Jesus Prophesies And Declares The Holy Spirit Indwelling Believers In Jesus Thus "You" In John 14-17 Includes All Believers In Jesus In All Time

Related post 6: Lord Jesus' prayer for us believers

Related post 7: Lord Jesus indicates during the supper that more than the 12 apostles were at the supper

Related post 8: John's writings for we believers in all time

Related post 9: Christ binds Christians with communion is by Christ in Christ for Christ

Related post 10: God the Grantor And God the Concealer And God the Revealer

Related post 11: Lord Jesus commands us His chosen believers to go and teach and proclaim with his exclusive authoritative sovereignty declared

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

grumix8 · Nov 27, 2021

Kermos you say one thing and say another you forgotten I remember you change what you said and just said the opposite, stay firm in what you say and dont' change your meaning people have freewill and people choose and G-d gave that since the beggining of creation.

Kermos · Nov 28, 2021

grumix8 said:
Kermos you say one thing and say another you forgotten I remember you change what you said and just said the opposite, stay firm in what you say and dont' change your meaning people have freewill and people choose and G-d gave that since the beggining of creation.

You failed to cite the Word of God in your post, and you failed to demonstrate any contradiction in what God had me post for I wrote no "opposite" in this thread.

Your post is a whole lot of useless "word of @grumix8", which is not life.

In truth, the Word of God is life (John 14:6).

Now, that is yet another post on page 52 with the "word of grumix8", and not one scripture quotation to support freewill
(just like this post shows one more similar posts on page 50 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 46 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 45 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 43 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 35 which has a predecessor this post shows two more similar posts on page 33 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 32 which has a predecessor of this post shows four more similar posts on page 28 which has a predecessor of this post showing you did the same on page 23).

That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!

Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written “do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar” (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote “nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 21:27) – notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is foolishly evil.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

grumix8 · Mar 1, 2022

People the scripture uses the word "will"
בצוואה
and "free"
But to describe a person as free, as in not a slave, you’d say בֶּן/בַּת חוֹרִין (ben/baht hoh-REEN

grumix8 · Mar 1, 2022

Free and will do exist but to make in concept it is need the thing of freedom and good and evil the conscience to be able in hebrew in writting but they cuould not explain they did not have the experience of government,freedom of women, freedom of slavery, and concept of theology were needed but still the base is that choice by God to be with him in doing good or evil but consequence is death for evil or eternal life for good.

Their is gray area and that is Elijah's error, Moses Error, and Huldah as prophets that they made mistakes and change the destiny of the plan of God but God cover it with forgivness and let them learn from thier errors for A purpose and all purpose being good or evil will be in the end A happy ending in revelations. Put things in God hands and put love they God and nieghbor and he will do the rest ;D.

Your wrong Kermos God's love ya ;D.

Daniel L. · Mar 1, 2022

Kermos said:
Since the Word of God does not say that man was imparted a free will

This is what happens when you remove Enoch from the bible:

2 Enoch 30 And I assigned to him four special stars, and called his name Adam.
And I gave him his free will; and I pointed out to him the two ways – light and darkness. And I said to him, ‘This is good for you, but that is bad’; so that I might come to know whether he has love toward me or abhorrence, and so that it might become plain who among his race loves me.

amigo de christo · Mar 1, 2022

Second chronicles verse -15-16
And the Lord GOD of their fathers Sent unto them by his messengers,
rising up betimes ,and sending , Because GOD had compassion on His people , and on His dwelling place
BUT THEY MOCKED the messengers of God , and despised HIS words,
and misused His prophets , TILL THE WRATH OF GOD arose Against His people
till there was no remedy .
FLEE the tabernacles of calvin . GOD , HIS DESIRE is not the death of the wicked but rather they repent .
HE warns , HE sends messengers , HE even sent the SON . The answer is not CALVIN
ITS JESUS . WE MUST PREACH REPENTANCE and JESUS . WHOEVER hears and repents shall be saved
whoever hardens their hearts and resists will be destroyed .
Its all over the bible . WE can see that GOD always warns and reminds before HE brings wrath .
Always desiring that the wicked would repent .
I want every man , woman and child to flee calvin. PREACH CHRIST JESUS , WHOEVER BELIEVES shall be saved .
STOP defending calvin and just preach the REAL SOLUTION by which if a man does hear and recieve HE SHALL BE SAVED .
AKA enough with calvin . PREACH JESUS TO THIS WORLD . WHOEVER hears and believes the glorious gospel shall be saved
whoever rejects that is on them , they will be damned .

amigo de christo · Mar 1, 2022

CHOOSE YE THIS DAY WHOM YE SHALL SERVE .
Whether it be the tabernacles of men gone wrong who condmen and cannot save
or whether it be the glorious truth in that bible and of that JESUS , YE DECIDE
but as for me and the lambs , ITS GONNA BE CHRIST and we gonna learn our bibles for our own selves .
AND GOD is with the lambs and HE shall give us the wisdom and understanding we need .

michaelvpardo · Mar 1, 2022

DPMartin said:
na, na na na, non of you get it, the choices where God's choices for Adam. eat those and live, eat that and die. God's command (conditions, covenant, agreement) God's choice. God didn't say eat of the tree and maybe we'll talk about it. one might forget that God made the man and then put him in the garden.

it was God's choice to let them continue in the flesh (dust to dust) not theirs, but the Life they had in the Presence of God they died from.

most don't understand or refuse to submit to the fact that God is not only the Creator He is also the Judge. Hence God is the Judge of what is good and evil for all of His creation and the creatures therein, no exceptions. therefore the serpent created the delusion like god they could judge what is good and evil not only for themselves but all that is at their hand.

but the commandment given Adam was Life and Adams judgement was death. they trusted and believed something other than God's Word, which is Life.

therefore if one is born to die, what choices are there, if one is to die anyway? unless God chooses to do otherwise with what is condemned already.

also freewill is a delusion of this society because the millions and billions in the rest of the world don't have the freedom to go do what they would like to. so those who live in governed territory where there is a concept of freedom think they are entitled it therefore think that its even God will. but these types of freedoms are in the same prison of condemnation as all men, but have nothing to do with God choice.

even when God told the children of Israel back in Moses' day to chose life, that was God's chose for them. Jesus the Life one is to receive to live in God's Presence is God's choice for the elect.

Noah was ten generations from Adam who found grace, Abraham was ten generation from Noah who was the man of faith, were the establishment of Grace and Faith and the bread and the wine was introduced as something the coming Christ was to fulfill. these are chosen, and if your God is the God of Noah and Abraham, He choses.

no one invites themselves to the Lord's table.

Adam and Eve had free access to the tree of life and could have lived forever. That was the point of being banished from the garden after Adam's sin, to prevent him from being eternally separated from God.

Kermos · Mar 12, 2022

grumix8 said:
People the scripture uses the word "will"
בצוואה
and "free"
But to describe a person as free, as in not a slave, you’d say בֶּן/בַּת חוֹרִין (ben/baht hoh-REEN

grumix8 said:
Free and will do exist but to make in concept it is need the thing of freedom and good and evil the conscience to be able in hebrew in writting but they cuould not explain they did not have the experience of government,freedom of women, freedom of slavery, and concept of theology were needed but still the base is that choice by God to be with him in doing good or evil but consequence is death for evil or eternal life for good.

Their is gray area and that is Elijah's error, Moses Error, and Huldah as prophets that they made mistakes and change the destiny of the plan of God but God cover it with forgivness and let them learn from thier errors for A purpose and all purpose being good or evil will be in the end A happy ending in revelations. Put things in God hands and put love they God and nieghbor and he will do the rest ;D.

Your wrong Kermos ;D.

You failed to cite the Word of God in your as quoted posts.

Your as quoted posts are a whole lot of useless "word of @grumix8", which is not life.

In truth, the Word of God is life (John 14:6).

Now, that are yet more posts on page 52 with the "word of grumix8", and not one scripture quotation to support freewill
(just like this post shows one more similar post on page 52 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 50 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 46 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 45 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 43 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 35 which has a predecessor this post shows two more similar posts on page 33 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 32 which has a predecessor of this post shows four more similar posts on page 28 which has a predecessor of this post showing you did the same on page 23).

That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!

Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written “do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar” (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote “nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 21:27) – notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is foolishly evil.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Mar 12, 2022

Daniel L. said:
This is what happens when you remove Enoch from the bible:

2 Enoch 30 And I assigned to him four special stars, and called his name Adam.
And I gave him his free will; and I pointed out to him the two ways – light and darkness. And I said to him, ‘This is good for you, but that is bad’; so that I might come to know whether he has love toward me or abhorrence, and so that it might become plain who among his race loves me.

When a you adds something that is not the Word of God into the Word of God, such as your 2 Enoch 30, then all you have is death.

Your heart's desire of 2 Enoch 30 contradicts the Apostle Paul's writing.

Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.

Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".

Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22must be taken as a whole.

Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.

Presenting an event driven review of Paul's writing "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:20-22) and the creation account and more recorded in Genesis:

See "until now" (Romans 8:22) indicates all time prior to the Apostle Paul for he wrote "the whole creation" (Romans 8:22), as in "the whole creation" "until now".
See the serpent was in the garden tempting Eve (Genesis 3:1-5) before Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6).
See "subjected to futility" (Romans 8:20) as the serpent's futility of lying to Eve with "You surely will not die" (Genesis 3:4) - before Adam or Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), yet Adam and Eve died (Genesis 5:5, Genesis 7:21 none of mankind, besides the 8 [Genesis 7:7 and 1 Peter 3:20], survived the flood, so Eve had to be dead).
See "not willingly" (Romans 8:20) applies to Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6) for the Word of God specifically attributed the cause of Adam eating of the tree as "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17), so here God reveals for Adam the cause (listen to wife) and the effect (eat of tree); therefore, eating of the tree was "not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Mar 12, 2022

amigo de christo said:
Second chronicles verse -15-16
And the Lord GOD of their fathers Sent unto them by his messengers,
rising up betimes ,and sending , Because GOD had compassion on His people , and on His dwelling place
BUT THEY MOCKED the messengers of God , and despised HIS words,
and misused His prophets , TILL THE WRATH OF GOD arose Against His people
till there was no remedy .
FLEE the tabernacles of calvin . GOD , HIS DESIRE is not the death of the wicked but rather they repent .
HE warns , HE sends messengers , HE even sent the SON . The answer is not CALVIN
ITS JESUS . WE MUST PREACH REPENTANCE and JESUS . WHOEVER hears and repents shall be saved
whoever hardens their hearts and resists will be destroyed .
Its all over the bible . WE can see that GOD always warns and reminds before HE brings wrath .
Always desiring that the wicked would repent .
I want every man , woman and child to flee calvin. PREACH CHRIST JESUS , WHOEVER BELIEVES shall be saved .
STOP defending calvin and just preach the REAL SOLUTION by which if a man does hear and recieve HE SHALL BE SAVED .
AKA enough with calvin . PREACH JESUS TO THIS WORLD . WHOEVER hears and believes the glorious gospel shall be saved
whoever rejects that is on them , they will be damned .

"You did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15;16) declares Lord Jesus Christ.

Christian teaching is that no one has the freewill to choose Jesus unto salvation for the Author of salvation declares such.

Paul wrote that man's will is controlled by God "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Mar 12, 2022

amigo de christo said:
CHOOSE YE THIS DAY WHOM YE SHALL SERVE .
Whether it be the tabernacles of men gone wrong who condmen and cannot save
or whether it be the glorious truth in that bible and of that JESUS , YE DECIDE
but as for me and the lambs , ITS GONNA BE CHRIST and we gonna learn our bibles for our own selves .
AND GOD is with the lambs and HE shall give us the wisdom and understanding we need .

An out of context scripture quotation serves only your flesh.

Beholding Joshua 24:15
Joshua expresses a conditional logic statement in Joshua 24:15, and a conditional logic statement is normally an IF/THEN construct, for example:

IF condition THEN predicate

Stated in a more Joshua 24:15 focused fashion.

IF you_do_this that_will_happen

Thus, the conditional expresses an action in the condition (you_do_this), and the effectual result in the predicate (that_will_happen).

A conditional does not convey ability to the recipient of the conditional.

Now, the conditional logic statement Joshua expressed was "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD" (Joshua 24:15), so the condition (you_do_this) is "to serve the LORD is disagreeable in your eyes"; furthermore, Joshua 24:15 contains no reference to "choice" nor "free will" towards God . The condition Joshua expressed states the condition/state-of-being/nature of the person.

Disagreeable does not mean choose.

In the predicate Joshua provides only false gods to choose among for the those people whose nature is against the LORD, for Joshua said "choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living" (Joshua 24:15), and the word "choose" in this verse is translated from בָּחר (bachar) (Strong's Number 977).

Finaly, Joshua states "but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD", and there is no reference to "choice" nor "free will" towards God (Joshua 24:15).

A state of being, "disagreeable", is mentioned in Joshua 24:15, and action, "serve", is mentioned in Joshua 24:15.

There is no choice towards God mentioned in Joshua 24:15.

Beholding The Larger Context Surrounding Joshua 24:15
No scripture states that the people in attendance actually chose the gods of their fathers or that they chose the gods of the Amorites, not in Joshua 24:15, not elsewhere.
I am not necessarily saying that they could not choose the gods of their fathers or the gods of the Amorites.

The people said "We also will serve the LORD, for He is our God" (Joshua 24:18).

Joshua declared to the people in response "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins" (Joshua 24:19).

JOSHUA JUST TOLD THEM THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SERVE GOD.

The people then said to Joshua, "No, but we will serve YHWH." (Joshua 24:21).

Joshua responded to the people with "You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves YHWH, to serve Him." (Joshua 24:22)

JOSHUA JUST TOLD THEM THAT THEY ARE "WITNESSES AGAINST YOURSELVES", SO THEY TESTIFIED TO THE CONDEMNATION OF THEMSELVES.

Continued to post #1035

Kermos · Mar 12, 2022

Continue from post #1034

When a person is a "witness for a defendant", then such a one is a proponent for the defendant; in other words, a witness for the defendant. This scenario outlines testimony for justification of the defendant.

When a person is a "witness against a defendant", then such a one is an opponent against the defendant; in other words, a witness against the defendant. This scenario outlines testimony for condemnation of the defendant.

The truth is there is no free will in the passage.

Regarding when Joshua said "You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves the LORD, to serve Him" (Joshua 24:22):

From the time that Joshua commanded "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23) until after Joshua's death (Joshua 24:29) and after Othneil (Judges 3:9) and after Ehud (Judges 3:15) and after Shamgar (Judges 3:31) and after Deborah and Barak (Judges 4-5) and after Gideon (Judges 6-8) and after Tola (Judges 10:1) and after Jair (Judges 10:3), it was not until after all that time that...

After all that time it is written "they put away the foreign gods from among them" (Judges 10:16), and there is no record of the Israelites putting away the foreign Gods prior to that time.

Judges 10:16 contains the first occurrence of "foreign gods" after Joshua 24:23.

So there is no record of the people in attendance fulfilling Joshua's command of "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23), and non-performance of the command shows fruit contrary of their choice mentioned by Joshua.

Beholding The Corollary Between Joshua's Words And Jesus' Words - Expressing The Exclusive Power Of God For God And Man Communing
Joshua declared "You will not be able to serve YHWH" (Joshua 24:19, and recall Joshua saying the people chose God in a pejorative manner in Joshua 24:22).
Lord Yeshua declares "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16).

The Lord is a Holy God (Joshua 24:19), and no man can enter the presence of God by the man's own autonomous power (Matthew 19:25-26).

BEHOLD THE DISTINCT COROLLARY BETWEEN JOSHUA'S WORDS AND YESHUA'S WORDS - THAT MAN IS IMPOTENT AT CHOOSING GOD.

Joshua declared "He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins" (Joshua 24:19).

Lord Yeshua declares "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

The Lord is a jealous God (Joshua 24:19), so God does not share the glory of choosing man unto salvation (Isaiah 42:8).

BEHOLD ANOTHER DISTINCT COROLLARY BETWEEN JOSHUA'S WORDS AND YESHUA'S WORDS - THAT GOD EXCLUSIVELY CONTROLS FORGIVENESS OF SINS UNTO SALVATION.

(1) The scripture in Joshua 24 never indicates that the people chose God with God's blessing.

(2) Joshua told the people that they are "witnesses against yourselves" (Joshua 24:22), so the people testified to the condemnation of themselves.

(3) From the time that Joshua commanded to the people in attendance "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23) at least 245 years* transpired until another generation of people "put away the foreign gods from among them" (Judges 10:16), and there is no record of the Israelites putting away the foreign gods prior to that time, and non-performance of the command (Joshua 24:23) shows fruit contrary of the people in attendance choice mentioned by Joshua (Joshua 24:22).

Judges 3:11) + 80 years (Judges 3:30) + 40 years (Judges 5:31) + 40 years (Judges 8:28) + 23 years (Judges 10:2) + 22 years (Judges 10:3) = 245 years

The Truth (John 14:6) is no scripture states that man was imparted free will, in particular, the ability to choose God unto man being saved from the wrath of God, for God reserses this glorious work unto God's majestic glory alone (John 15:16, John 15:19, includes salvation).

grumix8 · Mar 25, 2022

Wrong Kermos again free choice did exist and man had it that is why he fell. He choose to disobey and God told him he will surely die and told him he had A choice and freewill to choose. If not to choose never have I say word of grumix your crazy for making such nonsense such as that. Simple writter unlike you not closed and say that all is evil and specifically what God put as rule that man error is he gave him A choice and women too. Again you scripture was put just you like to play God and say what is to your persona and only are God. Stop playing God :O.

You say kermos but you got it wrong you posted many times before and you erase your post that's all means you say whatever is convinient to you and not the truth. Only lies do you say and say when is convinient shameful, shameful, and shameful. You posted and it contradicts yourself what now your gonna be wishmaker and puff all the things you write disappear ? No,no,no and no you are inccorect

Kermos · Mar 25, 2022

grumix8 said:
Wrong Kermos again free choice did exist and man had it that is why he fell. He choose to disobey and God told him he will surely die and told him he had A choice and freewill to choose. If not to choose never have I say word of grumix your crazy for making such nonsense such as that. Simple writter unlike you not closed and say that all is evil and specifically what God put as rule that man error is he gave him A choice and women too. Again you scripture was put just you like to play God and say what is to your persona and only are God. Stop playing God :O.

You say kermos but you got it wrong you posted many times before and you erase your post that's all means you say whatever is convinient to you and not the truth. Only lies do you say and say when is convinient shameful, shameful, and shameful. You posted and it contradicts yourself what now your gonna be wishmaker and puff all the things you write disappear ? No,no,no and no you are inccorect

You failed to cite the Word of God in your as quoted posts.

Your as quoted posts are a whole lot of useless "word of @grumix8", which is not life.

In truth, the Word of God is life (John 14:6).

Now, that is yet more posts on page 52 with the "word of grumix8", and not one scripture quotation to support freewill
(just like this post shows two more similar posts on page 52 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar post on page 52 which has a predecessorthis post shows one more similar posts on page 50 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 46 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 45 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 43 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 35 which has a predecessor this post shows two more similar posts on page 33 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 32 which has a predecessor of this post shows four more similar posts on page 28 which has a predecessor of this post showing you did the same on page 23).

That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!

Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written “do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar” (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote “nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 21:27) – notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is foolishly evil.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

MatthewG · Mar 26, 2022

Yes Adam and Eve both were given free Will choice.

grumix8 · Sep 15, 2022

Just to make A recap everyone from the first to remembering the last posts that were done but we have to see what hebrew say when using those words of "free" and choice and know the whole area is also tied to the slaves system Judean mosaic law applies people. Did you know their is A law that saw if A slave from another country comes to Israel he is free under the law of moses and musn't be return to his country to be slave ? He can be free forever

Understand our freedom did exist ! And existed in Heaven when Lucifer rebbeled, truly freewill exist in the spectrum of decision but the concept of the past, present, and future makes us think freewill doesn't exist because everything God's see's and foresaws decided everything for us. Nope people just like their are sciences explaining our existence their is other realms of existence of aliens, spirits and time that our thinking does not know and exist God created it becuase he is above it all but paths that exist and ways that exist in those ways explain that freedom exist probablility exist and Lucifer is one that's he was perfect in every sense we do knot know and yet he reblled and proves freewill myth is not myth and Ray I copy something from him. Still were just the tip of the iceberg in freewill and consciousness and existing explaining that what we percieve in our brains and eyes is not how freewil is exist by God and he gives us choice to do good and evil people don't understand it.

Because they want to control the base of it and with words grab their destiny and say like scientist they cannot really choose because their future was chosen for them and everything is planned ? Not true Moses and Hulda and Elijah changed the future of the world with thier decision can we who are in this choosing of good and evil also change the destiny of this world and do good and not the same mistakes as them ? Yes, we can can Jesus do it ? He did change our destiny all together.

No, people you just begginign to enter the tip of freewill as we speak we have the verses and in greek mean different things and in hebrew mean different things. But how in the universe rules are different and no we are bound becuase their Is more to God he is not showing we know him as the God of before, today and tomorrow are thier more time measurments in the universe ? Yes, Do angels, aliens, and other beings that exist have different counting than we do ? yes, understand God is beyond destiny and he gives us that to be measure by time like we know it now but there is more ways to count time from angel perspective, alien perspective, and above all from God's perpsective for he is has not limits and he has counting system different from us.

Freewill is it based from God's letting people to choose to love him or not ? He let us choose our destiny can change from that ? Dont' go too far people he onlys wants us to choose either to be freed by him from sin thru Jesus and be baptized simple as that and not to choose to do evil simple people. Does freedom exist outside of our science and counting time and counting destiny and God can make it happen ? Yes he can he can do it all for he is God and only God judges God ! We cannot go beyond that but he can craete it people Don't rely on your own efforts in yoru decison but pray and rely on his and he will unchange your destiny to youd dream of saving your family to be rich man in god's way and be the thing you want he put in your heart to free in freewill in his love he gaves us life to choose and enjoy this magnifecent thing called life and live it with all your might and feelings.

Choose God above it all and put him first he will change your ways and find your dream come reality and really be all the things you can be !

BARNEY BRIGHT · Sep 16, 2022

grumix8 said,
Moses and Hulda and Elijah changed the future of the world with thier decision can we who are in this choosing of good and evil also change the destiny of this world and do good and not the same mistakes as them ? Yes, we can can Jesus do it ? He did change our destiny all together.[/Quote\]

I don't agree that Moses or Elijah changed the destiny of this World we're living in. This World we're living in, is destined to be destroyed, that's still true. I agree that people such as Moses and Elijah are examples to follow, and this is especially true of Jesus Christ, he's the greatest human example to follow. This wicked world we're living in however is sill to be destroyed. Understand however I'm talking about this wicked world we're living in, not living on.

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

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