Best way to win converts

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theefaith

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The LAST thing that Jesus wants to see is “ Religion”—- it’s the polar opposite of Christianity.....the Tragedy Of Christianity is that the Multitudes have “Turned” Christianity into just another Religion....they make it kinda like Judaism , replete with “ don’t do this and do do that” with a little bit of Jesus sprinkled in, where confused and Lost people are merely like the adherents to any other Worldly Religion—- trying to “ make” themselves Worthy by Turning over a New Leaf or by trying to be more Moral , as opposed to seeing that they are “ Made “ Worthy by the Shed Blood Of The Lamb Of God......

As it has been wisely put—- “Religion says “ DO”.......Christianity says, “ DONE!” .......it’s the difference between Heaven and Hell

God ordained and created religion
Christ is the mediator of the new covenant! Not a Bible study
You can’t more religion than a covenant!

Christianity does not say done
Heretics say done!

“It is finished” does not refer to the so called finished work of Christ which continues in His church but to the words the high priest must say at the consummation of the Passover sacrifice! Jn 1:36

our participation is required

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind (lacking) of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
 

Moonstone Eterni

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If religion is nothing but contradictions, then it is meaningless. It would not be based upon any standard of truth. Contradictions result from lying. Why would I therefore want to have a faith based in contradicting lies? What is your belief based upon? From what you post above, it cannot be based upon the Bible, it cannot be based upon any reliable standard, uniformed truth.

You posted earlier "Hindus and Muslims can also have very impactful spiritual experiences that make them feel like their religion is correct as well".

What exactly are "spiritual experiences"? They cannot be based upon any standard of truth. Does whatever a person "feels" become that person's own standard of truth? Each person creates their own "truth" based upon their personal felt experiences? Are you suggesting that you think there is really no such thing as truth or if truth does exist, it cannot possibly be known/understood correctly?
What exactly is your beliefs based upon?

Religion can be correct even if not every scripture is scientifically accurate. The first book in the Bible is a narrative about God creating the universe and earth in six days, and it gives an account of the first humans and their lives like Adam, Eve, Noah, etc. About half of Christians believe the Book of Genesis is actual history, and the other half believes it’s a metaphorical tale. I believe in the second one. There are parts in Genesis that are clearly mythological such as the Tower of Babbel, a tale that tries to explain the origins of every language with a story that sounds like something from ancient Greek mythology.

The advent of modern science is a relatively recent phenomenon. The writer (or writers?) of Genesis tried to explain their religious experiences with God as best they could; they didn’t have science texts to help them form their spiritual ideas and write them down in a book. For this reason, I don’t think it’s fair to say God cannot exist due to the scientific illiteracy of his earliest writers and adherents.

Why hold the Bible up to such high standards to predicate belief in God? He exists irrespective of the Bible’s lack of science and alleged contradictions (I do wish to emphasize the word alleged here, because I don’t think there are any contradictions).

I will revist this thread and reply to your last paragraph later. I didn’t sleep well last night and feel a bit tired, so I don’t feel like typing more and need a break.
 

theefaith

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Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification)
 

theefaith

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[QUOTE="BloodBought 1953, post: 1264938, member
/QUOTE]

Do verses done!

There is nothing we can do!


Does the will of God:
Those who hear the Word of God and do it!
Ez 36:25-27
Matt 7:21
Matt 12:50
Mk 3:35
Lk 8:21
Lk 11:28
Jn 5:30
Jn7:17
Rom 12:2
Rev 17:7
Doer of the word
James 1:22-23
Keep my commandments:
Matt 28:20
Jn 14:21
Things we must do:
Matt 5:8
Jn 15:1-5
Lk 1:4
Acts 2:38
Must repent and do penance
Matt 3:2
Matt 3:8
Matt 4:17
Matt 9:13
Acts 2:38
Acts 3:19
Must believe and continue in a state of believing:
Jn3:16
Endure to the end:
Matt 24:13
Mark 13:13
Rev 2:26
Heb 3:14
Heb 6:11
Romans 11:22
Colossians 1:21-23
Hebrews 12:22-25
Hebrews 6:4
Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39
Hebrews 3:4-6
1 John 2:24-25
2 John 8-9
Galatians 5:2-4
2 Timothy 2:11-13
 

theefaith

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Question

Jn 8:32
You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Is the opposite also true?

false doctrine enslaves men?
 

Moonstone Eterni

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Question

Jn 8:32
You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Is the opposite also true?

false doctrine enslaves men?

You’re posting scriptures that aren’t relevant to the discussion. Why do you feel the need to do that?
 

dev553344

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Best way to win converts
Offer them an attractive package or threaten them with disadvantage.
17tx98.jpg
 

Moonstone Eterni

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Best way to win converts
definitely not by mooning!

Um, thanks?

Your sage advice is impeccable. We’re all aware of the fact many Christians will flash their butts when trying to enlighten a nonbeliever, and it is an extreme problem because of how much mooning goes on among apologists for our faith. They will be engaged in a very serious discussion with someone who doesn’t believe, and then out of the blue flash their rears and think they won a convert. This ignoble practice, however, has a tendency provoke ghastly manifestations of the stink, causing many atheists to cry foul about the foul stench—then they walk away unconvinced.

Glad you raised this issue. It’s so serious that we must talk about it. And by the way, you were not flippant in the least bit.
 
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dev553344

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The church denomination I attend weekly is United Methodist. They are generally progressive with their views and theology. I can tell by how they speak on various political subjects like social justice: Last week, our pastor made sure to denounce racism and call it antithetical to Christian teachings. It’s true because the Bible says so in Galatians 3:28. However, I felt like he was preaching to the choir because nobody in our congregation lynches black people, hurts black people, or treats other races as inferior. But it’s okay: Progressives like to preach tolerance, so there is no harm no foul.

Not every United Methodist preacher is progressive, though. Some can be conservative. Nothing wrong with that (I am after all a Republican), but it can be bad when taken too far.

Years ago our congregation hired a very conservative preacher, but unfortunately he was a conservative of the fundamentalist variety. He made many unfriendly remarks about other denominations like Catholics and Mormons, saying they aren’t real Christians. One time he gave a sermon about how Islam is a fake religion and concluded that Christianity—or at least his version of Christianity—is the only correct religion “because of our experiences.” I thought this was a very weak argument given that Hindus and Muslims can also have very impactful spiritual experiences that make them feel like their religion is correct as well. No doubt our fundamentalist pastor’s thinking abilities weren’t too astute.

He quit preaching at our church after a few months. No one knows why, but I suspect it was because the elders forced him to resign for continually making derisive remarks about other Christian denominations and other religions.

His way of preaching went against Bible principles to love one another and show respect for others despite their differences. This teaching makes sense: If Christians show bigotry and narrow-mindedness, nonbelievers won’t want to convert. It’s through showing kindness, mercy, and love that we can win the hearts of nonbelievers.

I get things from Catholics and Mormons. They have their positive aspects and ideas. For instance Mormons don't use tobacco or drink alcohol, both of which, if abused, can lead to health problems and the Holy Spirit is more in our lives without too much of those things. Catholics have a very peaceful and non judgmental approach. Mormons don't have paid clergy and allow members to participate more. Catholics allow members to read the scripture to the congregation.

I've only experienced Mormon and Catholic so far but I'm learning about other religions from this website. And I somewhat like some other religions. I just don't believe in hypergrace.
 

BloodBought 1953

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You could have fooled me.....there is no "hell" in the Bible. There is "sheol", "hades" "gehenna", "the lake of fire" and "tartarus".....most of which are erroneously translated "hell".

Sheol and hades are descriptions of the same place...the common grave of mankind.(Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)
Gehenna and the lake of fire are descriptions of the "second death"...a death from which no one returns. There is no one alive in either place.
Tartarus is a place of spiritual darkness where the devil and his demons are confined without any spiritual enlightenment from God and restrained by him so that they can no longer materialize like they did before the flood.


Read that parable in context.....it is surrounded by other parables, none of which are real stories, but illustrations about situations that Jesus' audience understood. The rich man and Lazarus is also a parable, not a real account about real individuals. Its about the Pharisees and the "lost sheep" whom they despised....these trade places when the "lost sheep" accept Jesus as their savior and Messiah. "Abraham's bosom" was a position of favor with God, which was taken from the Pharisees and given to Jesus disciples.


The truth is in the details.....Satan is not going to be tormented for all eternity......no one is. What on earth is accomplished by that?

Satan and his minions will languish in the abyss for a thousand years whilst the Kingdom re-establishes God's rulership over this earth, with Christ bringing redeemed mankind back to what Adam lost for them....everlasting life in paradise on earth.

Our Creator had no intentions to take anyone to heaven in the beginning because that is not our home......we are already living in it. Once it is cleaned up and God's pure worship is established on earth, after one final test, all will go back to the way it should have been in the first place. (Revelation 21:3-4) What God starts, he finishes.....(Isaiah 55:11)


You say , “ Satan is NOT going to be Tormented for all Eternity” ......please explain this verse from Rev. 20:10....

“And Satan, who had deceived them , was thrown into the Lake of Fire and Sulphur, where the Beast and the False Prophet had been thrown .They will be TORMENTED Day and Night FOREVER and EVER.”
 
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BloodBought 1953

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The best way to win a convert. The way Jesus did. When people sin against you realize it's an opportunity to forgive. The forgiveness of sin is how Jesus made converts. Not only that but by forgiving our life imitates Our Savior. Forgiveness conforms our lives to His.


Only those that showed FAITH in Who Jesus was got the Forgiveness....They were Converts to the Truth First—- Any Forgiveness or Healing came after that.....
 

BloodBought 1953

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[QUOTE="BloodBought 1953, post: 1264938, member
/QUOTE]

Do verses done!

There is nothing we can do!


Does the will of God:
Those who hear the Word of God and do it!
Ez 36:25-27
Matt 7:21
Matt 12:50
Mk 3:35
Lk 8:21
Lk 11:28
Jn 5:30
Jn7:17
Rom 12:2
Rev 17:7
Doer of the word
James 1:22-23
Keep my commandments:
Matt 28:20
Jn 14:21
Things we must do:
Matt 5:8
Jn 15:1-5
Lk 1:4
Acts 2:38
Must repent and do penance
Matt 3:2
Matt 3:8
Matt 4:17
Matt 9:13
Acts 2:38
Acts 3:19
Must believe and continue in a state of believing:
Jn3:16
Endure to the end:
Matt 24:13
Mark 13:13
Rev 2:26
Heb 3:14
Heb 6:11
Romans 11:22
Colossians 1:21-23
Hebrews 12:22-25
Hebrews 6:4
Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39
Hebrews 3:4-6
1 John 2:24-25
2 John 8-9
Galatians 5:2-4
2 Timothy 2:11-13




It appears that you “ forgot” to include Acts16:30—— “ What must I * DO* to be Saved? BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be Saved”.....

If there is anything that MUST be “ Done” , or if there is anything that must NOT be Done beyond this Promise , it will be+up to Jesus to see that it happens .....to put it rather crudely, the monkey is on HIS back.....He must Save us if we Believe that Jesus was Who He said He was — “ God's Son and our Savior” .....If He does not save once we Believe in Him, that would make Him a Liar....and He AINT a Liar....
 

BloodBought 1953

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I've only experienced Mormon and Catholic so far but I'm learning about other religions from this website. And I somewhat like some other religions. I just don't believe in hypergrace.


All “ Religions “ have at least One Thing in common.....they are all attempts to clean one’s self up in order to make yourself “ Worthy” Of Eternal Life......Christianity maintains that We can NEVER make ourselves “ Worthy” —- that’s the Bad News.......The Good News is that you don’t have to ....If you simply BELIEVE the Gospel Of 1 Cor15:1-4, God will Impute to you the Righteousness Of His Son.....you will be MADE WORTHY by the Blood Of The Lamb.....You need to abandon anything and everything that reeks of “ religion” and go with Christianity instead.....they are polar opposites...

One says “ Do” and the other says” Done” ......a wrong choice will turn out to be VERY painful....
 

EloyCraft

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I've only experienced Mormon and Catholic so far but I'm learning about other religions from this website. And I somewhat like some other religions. I just don't believe in hypergrace.


All “ Religions “ have at least One Thing in common.....they are all attempts to clean one’s self up in order to make yourself “ Worthy” Of Eternal Life......Christianity maintains that We can NEVER make ourselves “ Worthy” —- that’s the Bad News.......The Good News is that you don’t have to ....If you simply BELIEVE the Gospel Of 1 Cor15:1-4, God will Impute to you the Righteousness Of His Son.....you will be MADE WORTHY by the Blood Of The Lamb.....You need to abandon anything and everything that reeks of “ religion” and go with Christianity instead.....they are polar opposites...

One says “ Do” and the other says” Done” ......a wrong choice will turn out to be VERY painful....
People all around the world need answers to understand the human condition. The mystery of death and the reason for suffering cause anxiety.

Religion developed to answer the hard questions that trouble us. That is another likeness they all share.
 

1stCenturyLady

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The church denomination I attend weekly is United Methodist. They are generally progressive with their views and theology. I can tell by how they speak on various political subjects like social justice: Last week, our pastor made sure to denounce racism and call it antithetical to Christian teachings. It’s true because the Bible says so in Galatians 3:28. However, I felt like he was preaching to the choir because nobody in our congregation lynches black people, hurts black people, or treats other races as inferior. But it’s okay: Progressives like to preach tolerance, so there is no harm no foul.

Not every United Methodist preacher is progressive, though. Some can be conservative. Nothing wrong with that (I am after all a Republican), but it can be bad when taken too far.

Years ago our congregation hired a very conservative preacher, but unfortunately he was a conservative of the fundamentalist variety. He made many unfriendly remarks about other denominations like Catholics and Mormons, saying they aren’t real Christians. One time he gave a sermon about how Islam is a fake religion and concluded that Christianity—or at least his version of Christianity—is the only correct religion “because of our experiences.” I thought this was a very weak argument given that Hindus and Muslims can also have very impactful spiritual experiences that make them feel like their religion is correct as well. No doubt our fundamentalist pastor’s thinking abilities weren’t too astute.

He quit preaching at our church after a few months. No one knows why, but I suspect it was because the elders forced him to resign for continually making derisive remarks about other Christian denominations and other religions.

His way of preaching went against Bible principles to love one another and show respect for others despite their differences. This teaching makes sense: If Christians show bigotry and narrow-mindedness, nonbelievers won’t want to convert. It’s through showing kindness, mercy, and love that we can win the hearts of nonbelievers.

The United Methodist Church I attended left the denomination because of the practicing gay bishop that was overseeing them. What do you personally think about that?
 

BloodBought 1953

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The United Methodist Church I attended left the denomination because of the practicing gay bishop that was overseeing them. What do you personally think about that?



I think it’s the wise, Biblical move to make....there are qualifications that must be met for a Preacher Of God's Word ....one of them that must be met is that your reputation in your area must be of the highest order......if homosexuality does not offend you, that’s fine with me.....just don’t tell me it is not a sin....it is .
 

Aunty Jane

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You say , “ Satan is NOT going to be Tormented for all Eternity” ......please explain this verse from Rev. 20:10....
Revelation is full of symbolisms. "The lake of fire" is not a literal place because "death and hades " are also thrown into this "lake"...read on. (Revelation 20:13-14) The lake of fire is also called "the second death"....so its another kind of death...one from which there is no resurrection.

If the place is not literal...the fire is not literal and therefore the "torment" is not literal. The lake of fire is like "gehenna". No one is alive in there.
 

BloodBought 1953

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Revelation is full of symbolisms. "The lake of fire" is not a literal place because "death and hades " are also thrown into this "lake"...read on. (Revelation 20:13-14) The lake of fire is also called "the second death"....so its another kind of death...one from which there is no resurrection.

If the place is not literal...the fire is not literal and therefore the "torment" is not literal. The lake of fire is like "gehenna". No one is alive in there.


“ Tormented day and night forever”...... please explain the “ symbolism” in that.....I suppose one could call Christ’s crucifixion on the Cross and His Resurrection “ symbolic” too, if they chose to be blind to obvious truths...
 
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