Death Penalty

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Do you think the death penalty should be used today?


  • Total voters
    17

Groundzero

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Jul 20, 2011
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John 8:7 KJVR

(7) So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.



what has not been addressed by those who believe that the death penalty is for today is this:

who is qualified to judge and condemn?

according to the Master, it would be 'he that is without sin among you' - is there anyone here who would qualify?




Haven't we already gone through this point?! Just because someone is executed for their crimes against their fellowman, doesn't mean that they are eternally doomed! The executioner is merely carrying out the consequence that comes with such actions. But of course, none of like responsibility for our actions! When my parents die, are they going to be corrected by God because they smacked me? NO!!!! Because that was their duty! Same as the justice system. The justice system's duty is to punish wrongdoers. They don't condemn them to hell fire. God alone does that. All the justice system does is mete out the consequences of someone's actions!




To keep the land clean? Why not now? You can't pick and choose which commandments. That's not consistent.



So tell us Vet, which Covenant are you under? The New or the Law of Moses? Doesn't sound like you know. If you want to be under THE LAW then you MUST keep all of it.

Oh yeah?! I think I've already made that clear!! I am not picking and choosing. I have already made the point clear, that murder must be paid for. There are many crimes which must be paid for, some against their own bodies, some against others. I am not discussing about punishment for robbery, adultery, or such. For the upteenth time, if someone takes the priceless life of someone else in cold-blooded murder, there is only one punishment that really is fitting: the death sentence. As I have previously stated, I believe that it should be up to the victim's family. Whether they want justice, or they want to forgive.

I think you missed the point Vet was pulling out. The Law is NOT a terror for those who do good works but for the evil! The Law exists to punish those who disobey. In this case, the death sentence is the punishment for murder.

1 Timothy 1:5-7 KJVR

(5) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

(6) From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

(7) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. (emphasis added)


you've missed Paul's point - this wasn't about the death penalty - it was about Charity - LOVE.


1 Timothy 1:12-14 KJVR

(12) And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

(13) Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

(14) And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.


Acts 22:20 KJVR

(20) And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.


this is Paul admitting that he was an accomplice to Stephen's death - an accomplice to murder - Paul's point in all of this is to not be disobedient to LOVE - this is not justification for the death penalty.


Romans 13:9-10 KJVR

(9) For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

(10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (emphasis added)


read a little farther - to the conclusion - before you take scriptures and claim they justify the death penalty.

Ouch. So you'd have a clear conscience if you let someone go to jail for life after murdering 80 people while all those torn and wounded families are calling for justice?! You call that charity?! Turn the coin over! We talk about showing mercy to the murderer and forget about the murdered!

Your verses about Paul don't highlight anything except the amazing power of Jesus to change someone's life!

As for ro 13:9-10, tell me, is it going to do any good if someone decides to walk around the neighbourhood with a chainsaw killing people and you just go and 'love' him? What 'love' is that!? Love requires punishment! My parents didn't discipline me because they hated me, but because they loved me! Once again, this can be flipped around. What about all those people who have been killed? their families? How loving is it if we let the brutal murderer enjoy the rest of his life in a cosy prison with good food and plenty of entertainment?!

People MUST be responsible for their actions.


Excellent point. Nobody here is qualified. Anyone who condemns an innocent person to die will have bloody hands on Judgment Day.

I think we have already covered such issues. The death penalty, in Scripture, was only to be carried out if there were two or more witnesses, and after a hearing. I think that if the evidence was foggy, the accused would not be executed. While we are on the point, what about the cities of refuge? You see, even those who accidentally killed someone, had to be responsible for their safety. If they didn't run to a city of refuge and they were killed by the avenger, who's fault was it? The person who got killed! We are responsible for our actions.

This is an excellent verse about the justice system and what it's purpose is:

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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Oh yeah?! I think I've already made that clear!! I am not picking and choosing. I have already made the point clear, that murder must be paid for. There are many crimes which must be paid for, some against their own bodies, some against others. I am not discussing about punishment for robbery, adultery, or such. For the upteenth time, if someone takes the priceless life of someone else in cold-blooded murder, there is only one punishment that really is fitting: the death sentence. As I have previously stated, I believe that it should be up to the victim's family. Whether they want justice, or they want to forgive.
You stated that the death penalty is still in effect. If so, then adulterers, homosexuals, violators of the Sabbath, those of other religions, etc. would be put to death. How are you not picking and choosing??? The death penalty in THE LAW was commanded, not a request.
I think you missed the point Vet was pulling out. The Law is NOT a terror for those who do good works but for the evil! The Law exists to punish those who disobey. In this case, the death sentence is the punishment for murder.
Actually I was hoping for some clarification. Why are you picking out the sin of murder and overlooking the others? How is that consistent?
Ouch. So you'd have a clear conscience if you let someone go to jail for life after murdering 80 people while all those torn and wounded families are calling for justice?! You call that charity?! Turn the coin over! We talk about showing mercy to the murderer and forget about the murdered!
How are you showing mercy to those murdered? You can't.
People MUST be responsible for their actions.
Everyone? Or just the one's you choose?
I think we have already covered such issues. The death penalty, in Scripture, was only to be carried out if there were two or more witnesses, and after a hearing. I think that if the evidence was foggy, the accused would not be executed. While we are on the point, what about the cities of refuge? You see, even those who accidentally killed someone, had to be responsible for their safety. If they didn't run to a city of refuge and they were killed by the avenger, who's fault was it? The person who got killed! We are responsible for our actions.
I must ask, which Covenant are you under? Christians are under the NT, not THE LAW of Moses.
This is an excellent verse about the justice system and what it's purpose is:
[font="tahoma][size="3"]For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.[/size][/font]

True indeed, but that is NOT saying that Christians are to execute wrath on anyone. We are not! NEVER.

 

Groundzero

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Jul 20, 2011
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You stated that the death penalty is still in effect. If so, then adulterers, homosexuals, violators of the Sabbath, those of other religions, etc. would be put to death. How are you not picking and choosing??? The death penalty in THE LAW was commanded, not a request.

Actually I was hoping for some clarification. Why are you picking out the sin of murder and overlooking the others? How is that consistent?

How are you showing mercy to those murdered? You can't.

Everyone? Or just the one's you choose?

I must ask, which Covenant are you under? Christians are under the NT, not THE LAW of Moses.

True indeed, but that is NOT saying that Christians are to execute wrath on anyone. We are not! NEVER.


Ok, fine. I am picking and choosing. This topic was not to address crime in the whole arena. If that was the case, it would be very complicated. I posted this topic concerning death penalty in reference to murder. Sorry, I guess I was a little vague when I posted 'Death Penalty'. I was referring to murder and the death penalty.


You want to know why I picked murder? Because while adultery is a sin which was punished with death in the OT, it wasn't actually taking someone's life. Whereas murder IS taking someone's life. I get sick and tired of reading the heartbreaking stories of families who are calling for justice because a man murdered their relatives and is now getting off with it. There are two points to support the death sentence for murder:

1. The Law stated that. (as you have pointed out, why not apply it everywhere else?)

2. The punishment must be in line with the crime. According to Jesus, not the whole world could be worth ONE person. Therefore, only the person's life can pay for his crime.

No doubt you think that I am dead set for the death penalty. Actually, I sort of wish that everyone could have a second chance. The issue is, that is exactly what we are doing in society, and is it working? NO!


I AM dead set against removing the death penalty. I believe that if someone is murdered in cold blood, it is up to the family of the victim what punishment is meted out.

Everyone. It would be wonderful if everyone had the guts to accept that what they do will have consequences in this life and the life to come.

I thought I already stressed that the justice system was for those who do evil.

I am not getting into the grace/law debate. This site has more than enough of those!
 

aspen

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Ok, fine. I am picking and choosing. This topic was not to address crime in the whole arena. If that was the case, it would be very complicated. I posted this topic concerning death penalty in reference to murder. Sorry, I guess I was a little vague when I posted 'Death Penalty'. I was referring to murder and the death penalty.


You want to know why I picked murder? Because while adultery is a sin which was punished with death in the OT, it wasn't actually taking someone's life. Whereas murder IS taking someone's life. I get sick and tired of reading the heartbreaking stories of families who are calling for justice because a man murdered their relatives and is now getting off with it. There are two points to support the death sentence for murder:

1. The Law stated that. (as you have pointed out, why not apply it everywhere else?)

2. The punishment must be in line with the crime. According to Jesus, not the whole world could be worth ONE person. Therefore, only the person's life can pay for his crime.

No doubt you think that I am dead set for the death penalty. Actually, I sort of wish that everyone could have a second chance. The issue is, that is exactly what we are doing in society, and is it working? NO!


I AM dead set against removing the death penalty. I believe that if someone is murdered in cold blood, it is up to the family of the victim what punishment is meted out.

Everyone. It would be wonderful if everyone had the guts to accept that what they do will have consequences in this life and the life to come.

I thought I already stressed that the justice system was for those who do evil.

I am not getting into the grace/law debate. This site has more than enough of those!

Well, we murdered God's Son........are you ready to go to the gas chamber?
 

veteran

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So tell us Vet, which Covenant are you under? The New or the Law of Moses? Doesn't sound like you know. If you want to be under THE LAW then you MUST keep all of it.



I'm under The New Covenant Jesus Christ. And that means NOT being a 'lawless' one...

1 Tim 1:9-11
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
(KJV)

Those who seek and love lawlessness are the "workers of iniquity" per God's Word.

That has nothing to do with the fact that no one is saved by the law, which also is Christian doctrine as much as that above per Paul.



1 Timothy 1:5-7 KJVR

(5) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

(6) From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

(7) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. (emphasis added)


you've missed Paul's point - this wasn't about the death penalty - it was about Charity - LOVE.


1 Timothy 1:12-14 KJVR

(12) And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

(13) Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

(14) And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.


Acts 22:20 KJVR

(20) And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.


this is Paul admitting that he was an accomplice to Stephen's death - an accomplice to murder - Paul's point in all of this is to not be disobedient to LOVE - this is not justification for the death penalty.


Romans 13:9-10 KJVR

(9) For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

(10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (emphasis added)


read a little farther - to the conclusion - before you take scriptures and claim they justify the death penalty.

Why are verses 8 through 11 MISSING from your post?

I'm not the one with selective hearing here.

Go ahead, preach the lie that all the law is no more, and then remember that the next time you, a friend, or family member has an encounter with the law and those God has put in authority over man on this earth today. Then you might realize how silly you sound.



 

veteran

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Well, we murdered God's Son........are you ready to go to the gas chamber?

Now there's another flat out lie, the idea that we all had Jesus crucified.

I've heard others elsewhere say that baloney; must be an idea being pushed by the children of darkness among the Churches today. Not surprised, seeing how many brethren are so gullible to false prophets today because they don't study God's Word for themselves.


That idea of Christians being responsible for the blood guilt of Christ's crucifixion originates from these below which Christ was specifically speaking to...

Matt 23:30-38
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
(KJV)

Luke 11:46-54
46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
48 Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
53 And as He said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge Him vehemently, and to provoke Him to speak of many things:
54 Laying wait for Him, and seeking to catch something out of His mouth, that they might accuse Him.
(KJV)

Those "scribes and Pharisees" Christ was speaking to there is who is responsible for the blood guilt of His crucifixion, and God's prophets. That's the 'generation' (offspring) He was pointing to.

Why would our Lord Jesus lay that blood guilt upon them also all the way back to righteous Abel?

It's because THOSE "scribes and Pharisees" were FOREIGNERS, not of Israel.

1 Chr 2:55
55 And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab.
(KJV)

Gen 15:18-21
18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.
(KJV)

The Kenites were a foreign people that dwelt among the Canaanites. That's who those scribes were that Jesus was speaking to.

Heard of the Prayer of Jabez stuff? That was a prayer of a Kenite in 1 Chronicles 4 that dwelt among the tribe of Judah. Jabez prayed for material gain. Jabez became the name of the city where the Kenite scribes dwelt. This is why you won't find Jabez's genealogy in that 1 Chronicles 4 chapter.

The Nethinims that returned with Ezra to Jerusalem after the 70 years Babylon captivity were foreigners of the left-over Canaanite bondservants that Israel was not able to destroy (1 Kings 9; Judges 2 & 3; Ezra 2). Many of them had crept into the priesthood by the time of Judah's Babylon captivity.

That's why the Zech.14 prophecy for Christ's future Kingdom shows those crept in unawares cast out...

Zech 14:21
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
(KJV)

So everytime you hear that baloney that us Christians were responsible for Christ's Blood shed on the cross, then you know it's coming from a Canaanite or one of their followers.




 

Duckybill

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I'm under The New Covenant Jesus Christ. And that means NOT being a 'lawless' one...

1 Tim 1:9-11
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
(KJV)

Those who seek and love lawlessness are the "workers of iniquity" per God's Word.

That has nothing to do with the fact that no one is saved by the law, which also is Christian doctrine as much as that above per Paul.


None of which gives a Christian the right to demand death for others. In doing so, you lose God's mercy for yourself.

"Blessed are the merciful. The shall receive mercy."

 

discipleHelovestoo

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Haven't we already gone through this point?! Just because someone is executed for their crimes against their fellowman, doesn't mean that they are eternally doomed! The executioner is merely carrying out the consequence that comes with such actions. But of course, none of like responsibility for our actions! When my parents die, are they going to be corrected by God because they smacked me? NO!!!! Because that was their duty! Same as the justice system. The justice system's duty is to punish wrongdoers. They don't condemn them to hell fire. God alone does that. All the justice system does is mete out the consequences of someone's actions!

by the time someone has been executed for their crimes, they HAVE BEEN judged - who will judge them that meets the Master's challenge of being without sin? you are speaking about execution - judgment occurs BEFORE execution of sentence - who is qualified to judge? if no one is qualified (SINLESS) to judge and pass sentence of death, when will the death penalty be used? never in this life

are YOU without sin and therefore qualified to judge and condemn?


Oh yeah?! I think I've already made that clear!! I am not picking and choosing. I have already made the point clear, that murder must be paid for. There are many crimes which must be paid for, some against their own bodies, some against others. I am not discussing about punishment for robbery, adultery, or such. For the upteenth time, if someone takes the priceless life of someone else in cold-blooded murder, there is only one punishment that really is fitting: the death sentence. As I have previously stated, I believe that it should be up to the victim's family. Whether they want justice, or they want to forgive.

are you saying that Jesus did not pay for all murder at the cross? that there is a requirement for justice that Jesus' Crucifixion falls short of paying? if God's sees Jesus' payment as sufficient for all sins including murder, what should a Christian believe? should a Christian believe that some 'sins' are worthy of death when God says they've been paid for? I AM NOT SAYING THAT MURDERERS SHOULD RUN THE STREETS OR GO FREE

GOD's penalty for robbery, adultery, and such is DEATH - God isn't as merciful as the government is about these specific crimes. being a Christian, surely you will agree with God - if you execute for murder, then you also have to execute for robbery, adultery and such - offend in one point, guilty of all - the wages of <ANY> sin is DEATH

God doesn't compartmentalize sin the way that governments do. if you ask for judgment from God, for justice from God, God looks at your whole life and if He finds ANY sin, you get the death penalty. if the victim's family demands justice from God according to His laws, then they will burn in hell beside all of the murderers, adulterers and such - there is no grading on a curve with God - it's perfect or damned from the perspective of God's justice. if you demand that God judge someone else - YOU get judged too - and the standard is absolute perfection without exception.


I think you missed the point Vet was pulling out. The Law is NOT a terror for those who do good works but for the evil! The Law exists to punish those who disobey. In this case, the death sentence is the punishment for murder.

you miss the point that none doeth good - no not one - ALL need mercy and grace

Ouch. So you'd have a clear conscience if you let someone go to jail for life after murdering 80 people while all those torn and wounded families are calling for justice?! You call that charity?! Turn the coin over! We talk about showing mercy to the murderer and forget about the murdered!

'let he who is WITHOUT <ANY> SIN cast the first stone - my conscience is clear when i agree with God

Your verses about Paul don't highlight anything except the amazing power of Jesus to change someone's life!

As for ro 13:9-10, tell me, is it going to do any good if someone decides to walk around the neighbourhood with a chainsaw killing people and you just go and 'love' him? What 'love' is that!? Love requires punishment! My parents didn't discipline me because they hated me, but because they loved me! Once again, this can be flipped around. What about all those people who have been killed? their families? How loving is it if we let the brutal murderer enjoy the rest of his life in a cosy prison with good food and plenty of entertainment?!

People MUST be responsible for their actions.

Romans 13:9,10 clarify the point of the previous scriptures. notice that verse 9 begins with the word word "For", linking these verses to the previous verses.

since i've never said that murderers should go free, i guess you infer that the death penalty would stop an insane person with a running chainsaw in his hand from following through with the devil's idea to kill people with it - that this insane person will stop and think long enough to realize that he will be executed for what he is about to do?

I think we have already covered such issues. The death penalty, in Scripture, was only to be carried out if there were two or more witnesses, and after a hearing. I think that if the evidence was foggy, the accused would not be executed. While we are on the point, what about the cities of refuge? You see, even those who accidentally killed someone, had to be responsible for their safety. If they didn't run to a city of refuge and they were killed by the avenger, who's fault was it? The person who got killed! We are responsible for our actions.

you miss the point of WHO WAS TO JUDGE - in Old Testament times it was someone who was chosen by anointing from a man of God; chosen to hear from God and follow His leading; the two or more witnesses were merely the test to determine if the case should be brought before the judge - the judge was to judge based SOLELY on the leading of God. is there anyone in the justice system like this? are YOU qualified? do YOU hear from God so clearly that you would execute a man based soley on what you believe God has said to you?

This is an excellent verse about the justice system and what it's purpose is:

[font="tahoma][size="4"]For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.[/size][/font]

This is the same justice system that took prayer out of schools in our generation. i think you're missing the Paul's purpose in using the word 'sword' here - the sword of the government is the military. in Paul's time it was the Roman government's army. non - Romans did not get tried in a court of law as did Roman citizens - people who were not Roman citizens were judged by the local Roman military command, and there was little expectation of justice. this is not referring to the death penalty, but about the brutal power of the current government who casually used the death penalty without due process on non-Romans.


Why are verses 8 through 11 MISSING from your post?

because they were included in your post that i was replying to

I'm not the one with selective hearing here.

specifically, i was referring to using scripture out of context, so i guess the phrase 'selective hearing' would be appropriate

Go ahead, preach the lie that all the law is no more, and then remember that the next time you, a friend, or family member has an encounter with the law and those God has put in authority over man on this earth today. Then you might realize how silly you sound.

The law of sin and death IS no more for me - i now live under the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus - and will preach it to the ends of the earth - the lie is that God requires penalty beyond what Jesus did - I AM NOT SAYING THAT MURDERERS SHOULD RUN THE STREETS OR GO FREE

let him who is without sin judge and slay the accused - none others


 

Groundzero

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Jul 20, 2011
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Alright. This is becoming much to mixed up. Let's clear up one point which is absolutely driving me nuts: If we kill someone, have we just condemned them to Hell?


The answer is . . . .


NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!


Hear this:


And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mat 10:28)


According to what I read in the Bible, it doesn't matter if I get killed, because the only thing that people can kill is my body! not my soul! Get into your heads! We CANNOT send a person to Hell, NEITHER can we send a person to Heaven! We cannot condemn anyone! We can do it in words, but we cannot actually do it! God alone can do it! We can help someone go either place by our actions, by what we teach them, but we cannot actually send them there!


Even if a murderer was executed for the most hideous crimes on planet Earth, that executioner would NOT have condemned him to Hell. He would merely have been the one who administered the punishment for that murderer's crimes! I have heard stories, of murderers who have repented, yet have still been executed. Tell me, do we know where they are going? Are they headed to Hell because they got executed?! NO! For all we know, they could be in Heaven! The decision about where they go belongs to God, and God alone.
 

Duckybill

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Alright. This is becoming much to mixed up. Let's clear up one point which is absolutely driving me nuts: If we kill someone, have we just condemned them to Hell? The answer is . . . NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

If you kill an unsaved person the answer is YES! And you will have bloody hands on Judgment Day.
Hear this: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mat 10:28)
According to what I read in the Bible, it doesn't matter if I get killed, because the only thing that people can kill is my body! not my soul! Get into your heads! We CANNOT send a person to Hell, NEITHER can we send a person to Heaven! We cannot condemn anyone! We can do it in words, but we cannot actually do it! God alone can do it! We can help someone go either place by our actions, by what we teach them, but we cannot actually send them there! Even if a murderer was executed for the most hideous crimes on planet Earth, that executioner would NOT have condemned him to Hell. He would merely have been the one who administered the punishment for that murderer's crimes! I have heard stories, of murderers who have repented, yet have still been executed. Tell me, do we know where they are going? Are they headed to Hell because they got executed?! NO! For all we know, they could be in Heaven! The decision about where they go belongs to God, and God alone.

Christians are not to kill anyone! They will not receive mercy from God. Anyone who supports killing for any reason is GUILTY!

 

Groundzero

Not Afraid To Stand
Jul 20, 2011
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If you kill an unsaved person the answer is YES! And you will have bloody hands on Judgment Day.

Christians are not to kill anyone! They will not receive mercy from God. Anyone who supports killing for any reason is GUILTY!


How can you judge if someone is unsaved? We can speculate, but we don't have the final word. As for 'bloody hands on Judgment Day', that is a topic of its own.


I like to see myself as a free-thinker who is always looking for better ways, but I can assure that the laws (we are referring to criminal justice) that God set down in the Bible are the best that were ever instituted. We can try all we like to come up with more 'humane' alternatives, but I have witnessed enough of the current system here in Australia (australia is even worse than america when it comes to criminal justice) to realise that it has created an absolute meltdown of society. To be more specific, here in Australia, we don't have the death penalty anymore for murder. We let enemies of the country (Hicks is a notorious example) roam free instead of ex-pulsing them, and the youth of our streets can get away with anything, including murder, because they are 'underage'! The death penalty for murder is the biggest crime, but it isn't the smallest issue! Once we get past that, we are faced with a myriad of issues! (On the side, the police here have incredible powers, but they don't use them. Why? Because they are held back. But there is a day coming when they will be unleashed, and God help us then)
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
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How can you judge if someone is unsaved? We can speculate, but we don't have the final word. As for 'bloody hands on Judgment Day', that is a topic of its own.

The question should be, how can YOU? Either way, whoever executes ANYONE loses.
I like to see myself as a free-thinker who is always looking for better ways, but I can assure that the laws (we are referring to criminal justice) that God set down in the Bible are the best that were ever instituted. We can try all we like to come up with more 'humane' alternatives, but I have witnessed enough of the current system here in Australia (australia is even worse than america when it comes to criminal justice) to realise that it has created an absolute meltdown of society. To be more specific, here in Australia, we don't have mmm othe death penalty anymore for murder. We let enemies of the country (Hicks is a notorious example) roam free instead of ex-pulsing them, and the youth of our streets can get away with anything, including murder, because they are 'underage'! The death penalty for murder is the biggest crime, but it isn't the smallest issue! Once we get past that, we are faced with a myriad of issues! (On the side, the police here have incredible powers, but they don't use them. Why? Because they are held back. But there is a day coming when they will be unleashed, and God help us then)

We cannot condemn anyone to death, PERIOD. We don't have all the answers. And therefore, those who give mercy will receive mercy from God. If we want mercy from God we MUST give mercy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Groundzero

Not Afraid To Stand
Jul 20, 2011
819
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The question should be, how can YOU? Either way, whoever executes ANYONE loses.

We cannot condemn anyone to death, PERIOD. We don't have all the answers. And therefore, those who give mercy will receive mercy from God. If we want mercy from God we MUST give mercy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




God's mercy endures forever, but I can tell you right now, that it doesn't keep forgiving those who refuse it. Sodom and Gomorrah reached a point where mercy could no longer prevail. So did the antediluvian world. Mercy must be balanced, or else it is weak!

The U.S. Army in Vietnam showed mercy, but they did it the wrong way! They let the Vietcong recuperate in Cambodia, etc for too long without attacking them because of an invisible line that held them back from ending the tyranny of the Communists! Yeah, warped mercy, but it was mercy all the same. You see, several times in the Vietnam War, the US army defeated the Vietcong and had the opportunity to chase them across the border and completely annihilate them. But no, they were not allowed to cross the border! That was mercy to the Vietcong, because they could rest and regather! Tell me, did that type of mercy do anything? NO! It caused a whole lot more of pain and suffering that was totally unnecessary! And before I hear any crap about the South Vietnamese not wanting American help, I know several Vietnamese families who illegally migrated to Australia to escape the arrival of the Communists! That was 'fatal' mercy! It should never have been given!
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
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God's mercy endures forever, but I can tell you right now, that it doesn't keep forgiving those who refuse it. Sodom and Gomorrah reached a point where mercy could no longer prevail. So did the antediluvian world. Mercy must be balanced, or else it is weak!

The U.S. Army in Vietnam showed mercy, but they did it the wrong way! They let the Vietcong recuperate in Cambodia, etc for too long without attacking them because of an invisible line that held them back from ending the tyranny of the Communists! Yeah, warped mercy, but it was mercy all the same. You see, several times in the Vietnam War, the US army defeated the Vietcong and had the opportunity to chase them across the border and completely annihilate them. But no, they were not allowed to cross the border! That was mercy to the Vietcong, because they could rest and regather! Tell me, did that type of mercy do anything? NO! It caused a whole lot more of pain and suffering that was totally unnecessary! And before I hear any crap about the South Vietnamese not wanting American help, I know several Vietnamese families who illegally migrated to Australia to escape the arrival of the Communists! That was 'fatal' mercy! It should never have been given!
Please stop changing the subject. If YOU don't give mercy you will not receive God's mercy. If you are for the death penalty then YOU will not receive mercy from God.

 

Groundzero

Not Afraid To Stand
Jul 20, 2011
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Please stop changing the subject. If YOU don't give mercy you will not receive God's mercy. If you are for the death penalty then YOU will not receive mercy from God.


I didn't change the subject. I gave a recent real-life example of 'mercy' that defeated the one who gave it! Interesting statement that you have made about the death penalty. Might be relevant if the only way we could show mercy is by excusing the actions of a murderer.
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
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I didn't change the subject. I gave a recent real-life example of 'mercy' that defeated the one who gave it! Interesting statement that you have made about the death penalty. Might be relevant if the only way we could show mercy is by excusing the actions of a murderer.
You don't give mercy, you don't receive mercy.

 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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Let the murderer escape with his life is only ONE way to show mercy. There are many, many ways, many of which can do alot more good than the previous example which you like to mention.
We are talking about YOU and ME! If WE don't give mercy WE will not receive mercy. It's about YOU and ME. If WE kill others WE will not receive mercy from God!!!!!!!!