Things that were hidden in God

RichardBurger · Aug 3, 2011

Things that were hidden in God:

Deuteronomy 29:28-29
28 And the Lord uprooted them from their land in anger, in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.'
29 "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
NKJV

Luke 18:31-34
31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished.
32 For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon.
33 They will scourge Him and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again."
34 But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken.
NKJV

John 13:7
7 Jesus answered and said to him, "What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this."
NKJV

Ephesians 3:1-5
1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles —
2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,
3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,
4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),
5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:
NKJV

Colossians 1:26
26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
NKJV

BibleScribe · Aug 4, 2011

and a few more:

Daniel 8:26-27 ESV
[sup]26[/sup]The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now."
[sup]27[/sup]"And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days. Then I rose and went about the king’s business, but I was appalled by the vision and did not understand it.

Daniel 9:2 ESV
in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

Daniel 12:4 ESV
But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

Daniel 12:10 ESV
Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.

Revelation 13:18 ESV
This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.

RichardBurger · Aug 5, 2011

BibleScribe said:
and a few more:

Daniel 8:26-27 ESV
[sup]26[/sup]The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now."
[sup]27[/sup]"And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days. Then I rose and went about the king’s business, but I was appalled by the vision and did not understand it.

Daniel 9:2 ESV
in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

Daniel 12:4 ESV
But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

Daniel 12:10 ESV
Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.

Revelation 13:18 ESV
This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.

Thanks for your reply.

The purpose of this thread is to show, by the scriptures, that God reveals new revelations as God determines at His own will.

When Paul said his gospel was hidden in God it was the truth. God had not revealed it to man before it was given to Paul.

BibleScribe · Aug 5, 2011

RichardBurger said:
... God reveals new revelations as God determines at His own will. ...

Hi RichardBurger,

I would argue that it's not GOD who determines what revelations are distributed, -- but man. For who is it that assails the gates of heaven seeking Truth and Righteousness? And who is that man who receives? Is it the slothful, or the pursuer?

Matt. 11:12
From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force.

Thus we receive, the hidden things of GOD.

BibleScribe

RichardBurger · Aug 22, 2011

BibleScribe said:
Hi RichardBurger,

I would argue that it's not GOD who determines what revelations are distributed, -- but man. For who is it that assails the gates of heaven seeking Truth and Righteousness? And who is that man who receives? Is it the slothful, or the pursuer?

Matt. 11:12
From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force.

Thus we receive, the hidden things of GOD.

BibleScribe

You can argue all you want to but I will believe the scriptures that tell us that God reveals the truth as the scriptures tell us He does in the verses below.

Deuteronomy 29:28-29
28 And the Lord uprooted them from their land in anger, in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.'
29 "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
NKJV

Luke 18:31-34
31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished.
32 For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon.
33 They will scourge Him and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again."
34 But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken.
NKJV

John 13:7
7 Jesus answered and said to him, "What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this."
NKJV

Ephesians 3:1-5
1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles —
2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,
3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,
4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),
5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:
NKJV

BibleScribe · Aug 22, 2011

RichardBurger said:
You can argue all you want to but I will believe the scriptures that tell us that God reveals the truth as the scriptures tell us He does in the verses below.
...

To All,

Scripture does not contradict itself. Thus in Jeremiah 33:3, (and in other places as well), we find a personal challenge to find the hidden things of GOD:

Jeremiah 33
[sup]1[/sup] Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah a second time, while he was still shut up in the court of the prison, saying, [sup]2[/sup] “Thus says the LORD who made it, the LORD who formed it to establish it (the LORD is His name): [sup]3[/sup] ‘Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.’

Thus anyone who calls upon the LORD shall receive, -- whether a prince or a pauper -- , for GOD calls ALL into HIS presence. But equally, the Prophecies of Daniel were "shut up and sealed until the time of the end", and could not be opened until that time, (which I would propose is approximate to 1948). Thus we DO see some of the mysteries of GOD as past, present, future, and even some other things which may not be revealed until AFTER they are fulfilled.

But my point is, -- these things are NOT given to an Apostle without being available to even an unsaved individual. And of course, NEITHER shall receive these unless they seek GOD's face and then HE shall reveals those things. And I would propose that one is NOT a prophet without such revelation, that they become a prophet by that revelation. -- For it is by the declaration to the body of the greater things that their testimony is held in that regard.

BibleScribe

RichardBurger · Aug 25, 2011

Acts 10:9-16
9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour.
10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance
11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth.
12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air.
13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."
14 But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean."
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common."
16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.
NKJV

If Peter is teaching the gospel of grace through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross he certainly doen't indicate it here In Acts 10. He is saying that he is keeping the Law of Moses.

Peter did not know the Gentiles were to be saved until God revealed it to him and even the rest of the Apostles did not know it. Therefore it had been hidden in God.

BibleScribe · Aug 26, 2011

RichardBurger said:
...
Peter did not know the Gentiles were to be saved until God revealed it to him and even the rest of the Apostles did not know it. Therefore it had been hidden in God.

Clearly this was NOT sealed from Peter, because the intent of Jesus' ministry had already been demonstrated:

Matthew 15
15:21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Furthermore, Scripture provides at least two, (and possibly more), citations which any person could have read and discovered the ancient promise of the Messiah to the gentiles:

Isaiah 49:6 he (the Lord) says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

Isaiah 42:1 "Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations (Gentiles)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_Messianic_prophecy

As such, this wasn't "hidden" from anyone, except as the Prophetic Psalms is "hidden" from you. And that's only because you refuse to see. So yeah, many things are "hidden" from you.

BibleScribe

RichardBurger · Aug 27, 2011

Acts 10:13-15
13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."
14 But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean."
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common."
NKJV

In Acts 10 above we see that Peter considers himself to be under the Law of Moses.

Acts 11:1-9
11 Now the apostles and brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
2 And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those of the circumcision contended with him, === contended = argued
3 saying,"You went in to uncircumcised men and ate with them!"
4 But Peter explained it to them in order from the beginning, saying:
5 "I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a vision, an object descending like a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came to me.
6 When I observed it intently and considered, I saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air.
7 And I heard a voice saying to me, 'Rise, Peter; kill and eat.'
8 But I said, 'Not so, Lord! For nothing common or unclean has at any time entered my mouth.'
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, 'What God has cleansed you must not call common.'
NKJV

Personally, I can't see where Peter and the believing Jews know that salvation will be by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross (the gospel of grace). He is still trying to get the Jews to accept Jesus as their Messiah and king. I beieve it was hidden from their eyes until God chose Paul to preach the gospel of grace.

Speaking of it being hidden from the 12.

Luke 18:32-34
32 For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon.
33 They will scourge Him and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again."
34 But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken.
NKJV

Luke 19:41-44
41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it,
42 saying, "If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.
43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side,
44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation."
NKJV

1 Corinthians 2:7-8
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
NKJV

Ephesians 3:8-11
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;
10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
NKJV

Colossians 1:24-26
24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,
25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God,
26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
NKJV

If a person does not believe the gospel of grace given to Paul, by Jesus, was hidden in God and revealed to Paul FIRST, then they don't believe the word of God and IMHO are lost.

BibleScribe · Aug 31, 2011

RichardBurger said:
...
Luke 18:32-34
...
34 But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken.
NKJV
...

Is chemistry, calculus concrete, or automotive repair "hidden", just because one may not have studied them?

As such, I would maintain my observation as provided in Post #8.

BibleScribe

BibleScribe · Sep 1, 2011

RichardBurger said:
Thanks for your reply.

The purpose of this thread is to show, by the scriptures, that God reveals new revelations as God determines at His own will.

When Paul said his gospel was hidden in God it was the truth. God had not revealed it to man before it was given to Paul.

To All,

Where this Topic appears to present GOD's revelation to men as though it were some "special" dispensation of knowledge to some specific individual. However, I would assert that this premise is fraught with failure, and is quite the opposite of the TRUTH, as already demonstrated by the Isaiah citations, versus the Acts 10:14 presentation.

BibleScribe

lawrance · Sep 27, 2011

BibleScribe said:
To All,

Where this Topic appears to present GOD's revelation to men as though it were some "special" dispensation of knowledge to some specific individual. However, I would assert that this premise is fraught with failure, and is quite the opposite of the TRUTH, as already demonstrated by the Isaiah citations, versus the Acts 10:14 presentation.

BibleScribe

Yes you are right, i think what you have said is true.

BibleScribe · Sep 27, 2011

Hi Mr. Rosenberger,

My participation in this Topic was intended to refute a cult mentality. Cults think they are given some ~mystical~ insight which is not available to ~normal~ human beings, and therefore you should be subservient to them. The worst thing any man or woman could ever do is after being given DIRECT access to GOD, to allow some demonic inspired individual to interject between that relationship.

And where this is a public forum, there is no shortage of individuals who would promote themselves, their doctrines, or their church as that intermediary. And that's the potential heresy of this Topic -- whether intended as such, or not.

BibleScribe

Jake · Sep 27, 2011

:blink: No, Richard, Paul was NOT given another gospel, you are completely misunderstanding the verse which speaks of how Paul was made known the mysteries of Christ!

Saul was the biggest persecutor of Christians, he did not believe Jesus was who he said he was, he thought Jesus was blaspheming, God blinded him physically, as blind as Saul was spiritually, and in this God opened not only his natural eyes but his spiritual eyes as well, so he could see the truth, which was Jesus is the Christ.

No wonder it is said people are still on milk, when they should be on meat.

Prentis · Sep 27, 2011

The things that are hidden in God is the mystery of the new life that we have now received.

Angels are left in wonder to see that in such weak vessels can live such glory, that is, Jesus Christ. The mystery is that somehow he lives in us, and makes wretches into his glorious tools.

The mystery is that, what the prophets of old desired to see, and didn't we do, that is the power to be perfectly united with God, and please him perfectly.

bling · Sep 27, 2011

Paul tells us what the mystery is very plainly:

Eph 3: [sup]6[/sup] This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Prentis · Sep 27, 2011

bling said:
Paul tells us what the mystery is very plainly:

Eph 3: [sup]6[/sup] This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Good catch!

The gospel destroys all barriers, making us one with Christ, and so one with the Father. We have his promise, that is, new life!

BibleScribe · Sep 27, 2011

To All,

I would most strongly propose that the only things which are "hidden in GOD", are those things for which we have not sought answers to. Take for example:

Matthew 11:12

English Standard Version (ESV)
[sup]12[/sup] From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force.

The TRUE answer is not what most people think, -- or in many instances what has been taught from the pulpit or class.

BibleScribe

Prentis · Sep 27, 2011

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, but the glory of kings to seek it out. He reveals his mysteries to mere men!

Some things are not revealed, because we need to know them, but those are things of knowledge that will only be needed when the time is right.

As for faith, and the ways of the Lord, though they are higher than ours, he makes us to know them.

That is the glory that is revealed in Christ; God comes to inhabit man, make it his abode, and his temple!

Jake · Sep 27, 2011

Yes, Paul was made aware to the fact of who Christ is and through Him, what is offered to believers.

The important issue is that God did not give Paul a different gospel, then the one He gave to the other apostles, they are one and the same. There is not a hidden gospel that only Paul received.

There is only one gospel.

Things that were hidden in God

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