End-Time Deception - Hebrew Roots/Messianic Movement

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josiahandamada

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This is a testimony from a former Hebrew Roots believer who received a warning from God about the movement.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Hello brethren,

I know you do not know me, but I have been a fellow-follower of the Hebrew Roots/Messianic movement for several years, even as you. While sitting under the teachings of the Hebrew Roots/Messianic movement (henceforth I will refer to it as HR/M for brevity), I received an urgent message of warning to pass along to anyone in HR/M who is willing to listen. This may be a very difficult letter for some of you to read and accept, but I plead with you to please read it with a soft heart, an open mind, and take a moment to ask the Holy Spirit to provide a witness in your spirit to what I am going to say.

Before I give the urgent warning, I will first provide a little background information so you can see the whole picture better. I was made aware of and introduced to this movement back in late 2006, but I did not really have much interest in it, except I wanted to learn about the Old Testament on a deeper level. So I just kept it in the back of my mind and continued with my walk in the Lord apart from it.

The following year, I began to receive emails from friends who wanted me to understand why they thought this movement was such a blessing to their lives. I finally decided to give in and read a document about the Greek versus Hebrew mind written by Brad Scott. Most of it sounded logical and true, but my spirit became offended at a few comments he made, so I put it down and rejected it altogether.

Months later, the same brother sent me the same article, along with some other new ones, and insisted that I read them. I gave in again and began reading, only this time, it got my attention more, and even though there were a few things that still bothered me, this time, I focused more on the truth part rather than the offensive part.

This was my point of entry into the HR/M teachings. For a couple of years, I studied a bit on the feasts. My involvement in this movement consisted only of studying various materials, either text or video; however, I never became involved in a congregation. In more recent years, I stopped listening to these HR/M teachers because my spirit became increasingly disturbed, although I did not fully know why. But, even though I stopped listening to the teachings/teachers, I maintained some of their practices, such as observance of the Sabbath, abstained from unclean foods, etc. Just the very basic tenets of the doctrine.


I never got deeply entrenched, nor did I ever listen to the more extreme teachings, like Michael Rood and Avi Ben Mordechai. Quite honestly, my spirit sensed something seriously wrong with these, and I could not even open their websites.

One of the things that disturbed me the most about what I was seeing was the division, strife, and contention this movement was bringing to the body of Christ. Paul is very clear that the body of Christ is to be one body and function under one Spirit. This is not what I was seeing, and it began to grieve me deeply. That is why I have always maintained that we must not judge each other based on what names or titles we use for God. This alone causes a lot of friction.

Those who know me and have read my messages know that my focus in ministry is to turn believers’ eyes toward the Shepherd of our faith, Yeshua/Jesus and to learn how to hear the voice of HIS Spirit. If we do this, He will teach us and lead us into Truth. (John 16:13, 1 John 2:27) But I noticed the HR/M movement never spoke about this, so I began to distance myself even more (from teachers and teachings), although I maintained the basic tenets as truth.

Now that I have provided a little background information, I will proceed with the EXTREMELY URGENT WARNING I have been given to pass along to any of my brethren in HR/M who will listen. Please soften your hearts toward the Holy Spirit and seek Him diligently on what I am about to share with you.

Sometime last year, I suddenly began having some demonic attacks that I could not figure out. They were mostly subtle at first, but as months went by, they seemed to multiply and got worse. It got so bad, that I got to the point of severe mental and physical anguish. It was at this point that I decided to do extended fasting (a 40-day fast) to seek His face and find out what was happening. About 2 weeks into the fast, He began giving me dreams and visions that served to give me messages about the truth of what was happening. It was through this difficult struggle against the demonic (it was TOUGH) that I was able to break through into Father's Light and SEE what was actually happening. I will tell you about a few of the dreams and visions in a short while, but first let me back up to some things that led into this ordeal to begin with.

Up until the attacks began, everything seemed normal. I was living what I thought was according to the Word of Truth, including the basic tenets of the HR/M movement. Nothing out of the ordinary, as I saw it. I noticed the demonic attacks began growing in intensity and frequency. It got so bad after a while, I could not eat! I'll skip the details of what the demonic did to me and get to the main point. Sometimes, the only way to break through demonic strongholds, etc, is to fast and pray for extended amounts of time. The worse the bondage, or should I say, the more strategic the demonic web against you, the longer and harder the fight will be. This was the case with me here, as I will continue to explain.

The Lord gave me various visions after about the 2nd week of this fast (lots of patience also required when entreating the Father, especially when something is very wrong!). I'll share just a few dreams and visions that point to the main message I am going to give you. Two days in a row, He gave me the same message, only in two different visions. Both of these back-to-back visions showed a "breach" in my hedge of protection. As you know, when we sin, He removes His hedge of protection around us. The question for me then was, "What could possibly be causing a breach in my hedge. I'm so careful about sin!"

That leads me into the main vision of this experience that was extremely terrifying and also applies to many of you HR/M believers who are reading this. Please read the following with an open and sincere heart for the Truth. The very next day, after He showed me those two visions of the breach, He gave me another vision and a very specific Scripture. I will not discuss the details of the vision, but I will tell you the message of the vision itself, which was this: "You have lost your ability to receive forgiveness." What?!!!

The Scripture He gave me in the vision was 2 Corinthians 4:2 -

"But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."


He then led me to look up the word "craftiness" in the original Greek, which is "Panourgia,"Strong's 3834. The meaning that the Holy Spirit slapped me in the face with was "specious wisdom." I had not heard this word before, so I looked it up, and this is what it means: apparently correct or true, but actually wrong or false.

OK, so I've lost my ability to receive forgiveness (loss of salvation) and I am doing something that is apparently true (looks correct) but is actually wrong! In a nutshell, He told me that the Messianic/Hebrew Roots Movement is FOOLS GOLD! The building looks good. The arguments fit together very well, but it is ON THE WRONG FOUNDATION and is therefore COMPLETELY FALSE.

Yes, I was completely stunned!


Before I continue discussing the rest of what the Lord explained to me after this, please know that I understand all the arguments of the HR/M teachings. I know what they see when they read the Scriptures. It's like those pictures that look like one thing when you look at them at first, and then after you stare a little longer, they look like something else completely (I forget what those are called). The Christians see the first picture (just at first glance) and the HR/M see something else completely after they look at it a bit longer. BUT IT IS AN ILLUSION. Also remember that when people are deceived, they cannot see it. Nor will they be able to see it unless God Himself shines His Light to illuminate that person's heart. I know I cannot convince HR/M believers with my words alone, but I am praying that you will seek Him with an open heart, because that is the only way a person can break free from deception. All I can do is provide seeds of Truth that the Lord can work with in your lives. The HR/M movement is EXTREMELY SEDUCTIVE, EXTREMELY DECEPTIVE, AND EXTREMELY DESTRUCTIVE! But it is “specious wisdom,” and not based on the whole Truth of His Word. It is a matter of salvation and not be taken lightly.

The HR/M movement looks true on the surface, but it is fundamentally wrong! (Do you think satan would be able to deceive people if he did not use the Word of Truth and make it look authentic?) HR/M is on the wrong foundation altogether! Our foundation of faith in the Messiah is the apostles and the prophets (Eph 2:20) The HR/M movement changed it to the torah/law and prophets, which is not Scriptural at all, per the New Covenant writings. This very subtle change moves the course of the HR/M path away from the straight and narrow! It leads to destruction!

After He corrected my understanding with the message of the last vision, He had me go read the books of Galatians and Hebrews, so I read them in a plain King James Bible over and over and over and over and over, until the TRUTH of those books broke through the indoctrination of the HR/M teachings. One of the principle problems in the HR/M movement is they redefine terms and ideas in the Bible from their plain meaning. They call it a "renewed" covenant instead of what the Scripture ACTUALLY says, which is "New Covenant." They call it "legalism" instead of being "under the law." I'm not going to go too much into these sorts of details, because until a person breaks through the blindness of that extreme indoctrination, they will not see the Scriptures from the correct perspective.

I will provide this, though. He explained to me that the HR/M foundation is wrong; therefore, their entire doctrine is wrong. ALL OF IT. As hard as it may be to believe, this is the spiritual reality. Christianity is not the enemy of God, as some HR/M teachings imply. Yes, they do imply this (using nice words), which is why there is so much underlying animosity, contention, and strife between Christians and HR/M believers.

Paul is very clear in Galatians, that the Old Covenant is different and separate from the New Covenant. The New Covenant is NOT a continuation of the Old Covenant, as HR/M teachings insist. This is fundamentally wrong and the person who believes this will be taken down a path of destruction!

Please bear in mind that a Covenant is not the same thing as the Torah. The law is essentially the same, but the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant in Yeshua’s Blood are different, and so are the spiritual principles that govern the application of the law under these two Covenants. Did you get that? The Covenant is not equivalent to the Torah. It is the Covenant that changed, and thereby changing the spiritual principles governing how the Torah/Law is to be applied to mankind. This is key to understanding the fundamental error in HR/M. Ask the Holy Spirit to illuminate this truth for you, and you will be set free. Once you get this basic truth, it will all hit you like a freight train in fast motion! Furthermore, the Abrahamic Covenant and the Sinai Covenant are not the same either, which is another discussion altogether.

In Galatians chapter 4 beginning at verse 21-31, Paul makes a very clear distinction between the Old and New Covenants:

21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Here, Paul makes it very clear that he is talking about the two covenants:

1) The bondwoman Hagar, is the Old Covenant, which was given at Mt. Sinai. This one is bound to the natural laws outlined in the Torah.

25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

2) The freewoman Sarai, is the New Covenant, which is heavenly and spiritual. This one is free from the natural laws in Torah.


27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Those born to the bondwoman (Old Covenant), natural Israel/Jews/Messianics, persecute those born after the Spirit who are free, that is the Christians.

30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Cast out the Old Covenant (bondwoman)! Why? Because those still sitting under the Old Covenant CANNOT and WILL NOT be heirs with those who sit under the New Covenant. These are very DIFFERENT and SEPARATE covenants. It does not mean that God changed. It just means He made a new covenant. He can do that because He is so much smarter than we are, and He makes covenants all the time!

31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

We are not under the Old Covenant (bondwoman) but under the New Covenant (freewoman). We cannot be both free and bound. These two covenants are diametrically opposed and cannot coexist. We either sit under the Old or the New. These are the only two options.


I am telling you the Truth as the Lord has shown me. The Lord told me I had lost my "ability to receive forgiveness" because of how deeply I had gotten into the HR/M (even though I did not get nearly so deep as many others out there). To put it in Paul's terms, I had "fallen from grace," and so is the case with all who accept the HR/M teachings and place themselves under the Old Covenant. This is a MAJOR concern for all those out there who have been ensnared by this deception. Trying to keep Old Covenant laws (which are simply ceremonial shadows) and also New Covenant walking in the Spirit is equal to MIXING flesh and spirit. This cannot be! The natural Torah was a shadow of the spiritual Torah revealed in the New Covenant. It’s a shadow of the Messiah to come. The Torah is a shadow, but Yeshua/Jesus Himself is THE LIGHT. If we sit under the shadow, we are sitting in darkness and cannot see His Light. Christianity has not been wrong all along -- HR/M has been wrong all along. From its very foundation!

I officially went through deliverance and renounced all my associations with the HR/M movement, and I will warn as many people as will listen to me. This is VERY SERIOUS DECEPTION! He even showed me a prophecy in the book of Revelation that pertains to those in the HR/M movement, and they will be in for the shock of their life once the Tribulation begins.

Please run far away from the HR/M movement and spend time seeking Him in prayer and fasting, just reading the plain text in the Scriptures - especially the New Covenant writings. You cannot see the deception when you are in it, but He will show it to you if you seek Him with an open heart. The Holy Spirit has gently warned many of you for a long time now, but you have dismissed His warnings over and over. Allow Him to lead you out of this dangerous path and back into the Light, which is only Yeshua/Jesus. The focus of our faith should be Yeshua/Jesus, the Cross, and His Blood, all of which the HR/M movement have neglected and trampled upon, without even realizing it.

Just to finish this testimony, I'd like to add that after I renounced all HR/M involvement, I was able to cast out all the demonic spirits tormenting me, and now I have more peace and joy than you will ever find sitting under the shadow of the Old Covenant. Spend a month away from HR/M and just read Galatians and Hebrews over and over in prayer and fasting, and you, too will see it. The HR/M spends 98% of the time focusing on Torah and other "deeper wisdom," yet they completely neglect the work of the Cross (dying to the flesh) or teaching people to walk in the Spirit, so they will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Incidentally, one of the sins Paul lists under works of the flesh is "heresies." This HR/M movement is an absolute heresy that will cost many unsuspecting believers their salvation and lead them to destruction.

The apostle Paul calls “accursed” those who teach a gospel other than what he preached. (Gal 1:8-9) This absolutely applies to those who teach this HR/M doctrine. He also calls those people who spread this doctrine of bondage “false brethren.” (Gal 2:4) So we, must also consider those in the HR/M movement false brethren and be careful to stay away from their teachings. These HR/M believers are very sincere and devoted to God, but so was Paul when he was murdering Christians, thinking he was doing God a service. I, too, taught these HR/M doctrines to people, and that is why I am writing this letter. We must humble ourselves and acknowledge before God that we, too, are capable of being deceived, no matter how intelligent we think we are. This is a true test of tests.

1 Cor 3:18 - “Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.”

1 Cor 8:2 - “And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.”


To any who may be reading this and are a part of the HR/M movement, please understand that I have been there and know exactly what you have been taught. The only way to see this truth is fasting and prayer with an open and sincere heart before God. The demonic powers behind this movement cause severe blindness that can only be broken through true humility before God.

<br class="kix-line-break">To any who are reading but are not a part of HR/M or have never even heard of it, please take this warning to as many brethren as you can. Teach all brethren, as Paul did, to turn away from such dangerous and destructive doctrines. This is a powerful end-time deception that will cause many their salvation. Do not even give audience to the arguments or teachings of HR/M because they will plant seeds of doubt in your hear that the adversary can later use to lure you into his web of lies. This is what happened to me.

Having now explained all that, I will say that my heart and my prayers are with all those sincere believers who are ensnared in this demonic trap. May His Light shine into their hearts and expose the deception, even as our Merciful Father did for me. Whosoever is so inclined, please join me in the same prayer for our brethren.

- A sister covered by the Blood of the Lamb
yaresh

P.S. For any HR/M believers who do not believe that God is blessing non-HR/M Christians, please step out of that HR/M idea and watch some powerful testimonies on www.sidroth.org This may help give you some additional perspective.
________________________________________________________________________




And remember Paul's admonishing words: "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
 
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charlesj

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Hello:

You really have a big imagination.
I don’t know anything about the people you are writing about, but you can save yourself a lot of grief and trouble by just trusting the Word of the Lord. He has left us His Word in written form, the Bible.
He is NOT speaking to us in visions and dreams in this age. Everything we need to know about Him and how to live our lives, worship Him, follow Him is in written for us through the Holy Spirit.

May the Lord be with us as we study, serve and honor Him,
charlesj
 
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veteran

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There are certain issues between Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians that should not be. But I've never heard a Messianic Jew who believes on Jesus Christ try to tell me that the New Covenant is only an extension of the Old Covenant. Nor do I personally know any Messianic Jews that believe Christ's Salvation comes by following the law.

Yet I well know Judaizers like those of Acts 15 and Galatians 2 exist among the Messianic assemblies, just as they also do among all the Churches. God allows them to exist among us as a test, to see if we will listen to Him in His Word or not.

Today there's a special attack against Christianity involving the application of law that the founders of the Christian nations brought from God's Word to govern Christian society. There is a concerted effort by Christ's enemies to destroy that law which has been a protection over Christian society for centuries. In the United States of America it involves those who want to throw out the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, and especially all monuments with The Ten Commandments written upon it. That evil working against Christian society shouldn't be a big surprise, for The LORD warned us about that kind of working for the last days. Leftist groups like the ACLU will go a long ways in helping to protect liberalism, but they seek to tear down monuments of The Ten Commandments and its relationship among the history of the western Christian nations. So like I said, their Leftist movement against Christ Jesus shouldn't be a big surprise.

Dan 7:25
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
(KJV)

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

In OT times when Israel rebelled against God, it was during a time when evil rulers tried to shut God's Word and His prophets up, so as to allow replacement with other ideas, pagan idealism. This is the same... event in the Christian west we're under today by those same ignorant and rebellious offspring of the children of darkness that plagued Israel in OT times.

In Revelation 11, we're given a comparison with God's "two witnesses" that are to come to Jerusalem as a parallel ministry to Elijah's days. Per history in Elijah's days, evil king Ahab and his pagan wife Jezebel of foreign birth had murdered most of God's prophets and Elijah was one of the few that were left, and Jezebel sought especially to have him killed. The last days is going to be a classic repeat of the days of Elijah, when the majority of the people of Israel were deceived into false Baal worship, and those who remained faithful were few.

So don't be deceived into thinking these people are out to protect Christianity by trying to get us to do away with the law system over us per history of the western Christian nations, for they well know they must try to 'change' that law system in order to bring in their 'own' law system. And do you think 'their' system of laws will be favorable to us Christians? I guarantee you they will not be. Thus the OP post could possibly be a propaganda ploy by an Islamic host intent on pushing their Sharia law upon western Christian society, a very real movement in the West today among Muslims.





 

JoshuaCheatham

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I was an athiest/pagan before I learned Torah. I grew up in one of the protestant denominations but didn't understand how a God that says of Himself "I am the Lord, I change not" turn around and change what He expects out of those who serve Him. I saw the endless erosion of decency within the church and decided that if God exists He must not condone much of the behavior that the churches approve of or turn a blind eye to. Sins that cause so much suffering are approved of so long as nobody quits tithing. Just about every sin can receive a blessing from the religious authority because "the law was done away with" and eventually that means that as long as you're following the law of the land, you're OK with God. Quite frankly, I find it refreshing that this movement exists as a voice of sanity (much of the time) saying "stop this progressive-ism (lawlessness) within the body of the messiah!"

Read Psalm 119. Read the Torah and tell me that it isn't instruction from a Father to a child that He loves. Torah is good for you.
 
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JoshuaCheatham said:
I was an atheist/pagan before I learned Torah. I grew up in one of the protestant denominations but didn't understand how a God that says of Himself "I am the Lord, I change not" turn around and change what He expects out of those who serve Him. I saw the endless erosion of decency within the church and decided that if God exists He must not condone much of the behavior that the churches approve of or turn a blind eye to. Sins that cause so much suffering are approved of so long as nobody quits tithing. Just about every sin can receive a blessing from the religious authority because "the law was done away with" and eventually that means that as long as you're following the law of the land, you're OK with God. Quite frankly, I find it refreshing that this movement exists as a voice of sanity (much of the time) saying "stop this progressive-ism (lawlessness) within the body of the messiah!"

Read Psalm 119. Read the Torah and tell me that it isn't instruction from a Father to a child that He loves. Torah is good for you.
Welcome to the Christianity Board forum JoshuaCheatham! I agree with you wholeheartedly. The original post(er) was way off base regarding God's Law.

The same inspired author of Galatians and Hebrews also wrote:

2Tim. 3:16 ALL SCRIPTURE is given by God for instruction and doctrine (not just the NT).

1Tim. 1:8 The Law is good if a man use it lawfully

The Torah is very good and a real blessing unto mankind, however, we must cultivate a meek and humble spirit that will follow the Holy Spirit's guidance in determining which OT laws and in what manner we should obey them.

We all should, rightfully, be suspect of newbies like the OP who post ONE LENGTHY THREAD (over three years ago) and then never bother to follow-up with the responses. They are obviously pushing a personal agenda rather than willing to pursue a knowledgeable doctrinal debate on the issues.

I also agree with Veteran that the most pernicious danger to the Christian Church and our Western nations is NOT those that endorse more stringent adherence to God's Law but the much more ubiquitous Antinomianist false teachers who throw the baby out with the bath water and foolishly reject all of God's Law.

When directly asked, "What should I do to inherit eternal life?", Jesus responded, "You know the commandments. . ." Mark 10:17-19
 
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michaelvpardo

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josiahandamada said:
This is a testimony from a former Hebrew Roots believer who received a warning from God about the movement.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Hello brethren,

I know you do not know me, but I have been a fellow-follower of the Hebrew Roots/Messianic movement for several years, even as you. While sitting under the teachings of the Hebrew Roots/Messianic movement (henceforth I will refer to it as HR/M for brevity), I received an urgent message of warning to pass along to anyone in HR/M who is willing to listen. This may be a very difficult letter for some of you to read and accept, but I plead with you to please read it with a soft heart, an open mind, and take a moment to ask the Holy Spirit to provide a witness in your spirit to what I am going to say.
.
.

.
Having now explained all that, I will say that my heart and my prayers are with all those sincere believers who are ensnared in this demonic trap. May His Light shine into their hearts and expose the deception, even as our Merciful Father did for me. Whosoever is so inclined, please join me in the same prayer for our brethren.

- A sister covered by the Blood of the Lamb
yaresh

P.S. For any HR/M believers who do not believe that God is blessing non-HR/M Christians, please step out of that HR/M idea and watch some powerful testimonies on www.sidroth.org This may help give you some additional perspective.
________________________________________________________________________




And remember Paul's admonishing words: "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
Thank you for speaking the truth in love. I didn't read your entire message as I'd read enough to understand what the Lord was telling you. I heard something very similar on a Christian radio program this very day on WMCA while driving home from work, not about the cultic movement that you were involved in, but about legalism and a turning away from the righteousness which is by faith to a righteousness founded upon works. In the book of Galatians Paul addressed the issue of those believers that had been influenced by "what is called the circumcision" and were turning to a trust in the works of the law for their sanctification. Paul said that they'd fallen from grace.
We are saved by grace and sanctified by grace and all through faith and not by works. We can work up a sweat, 24 hours a day doing good or godly deeds in an attempt to please the Lord, but they add nothing to our salvation nor to our sanctification. Our "good works" are supposed to be derived from God Himself when we submit to His Spirit and draw near to Him. Our sanctification should manifest good works, but this through the change in our inner man which comes from drawing near to God through the person of His Son. As we abide in Him, having fellowship with Him in prayer, in His word, and in the ministry to His saints, using the gifts that He supplies for the edification and the building of His body, we gain understanding of His eternal and unchanging character and are transformed by the renewing of our minds.
Part of the war that rages between our fleshly nature and our new spiritual nature in Christ is in our old nature continually trying to bring us back into the bondage of sin and the fear of death. Then there are others, the cultic sorts, "the circumcision," the "synagogue of Satan," the legalists (to be found in every denomination) that are attempting to do the same thing to us for their advantage, but Jesus said:

"Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed."
John 8:34-36

Jesus frees us from the penalty of sin with His blood and He sets us free from the power of sin with His Spirit. We do need to abide in Him, the true vine, to have that power of His Spirit at work in us, but if we fail to do so, He is faithful to turn up the heat (so to speak) to get us back on track. The Apostle Paul wrote one of the most helpful treatises on this principle in chapter 8 of His epistle to the Romans. Paul spoke in terms of being "in Christ" and of "walking according to the spirit" as opposed to "walking according to the flesh" or our old carnal nature. We clearly have a choice in this regard, but many people misunderstand the use of the word "carnal" as referring simply to the works of our lusts and passions. Carnality also includes the working of our fleshly nature in its attempt to please God through our own efforts, but He says through the author of the book of Hebrews :
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Hebrews 11:6
And the faith that God has required of us is in the power of the blood of His Son, shed on our behalf, to cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

There's no shortage of people that will try to tell you something different; that's been going on since the 1st century AD, but Paul also explained:
19. "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20. "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.21. "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.''
Galatians 2:19-21
Don't allow anyone to cheat you of your faith and of the freedom bought for you with the precious blood of our beloved savior. I don't really think that you need to hear this from me as the Lord has been teaching you the same already, but I write it for the sake of those who would rob you and place you in bondage again with burdens that no one but Christ was ever able to bear.
May the Lord bless your dear soul for your faithfulness and heart for Him. We'll praise His name forever. Amen & Amen.
In His love,
Michael



How's that for resurrecting an old topic?
 

Penney

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I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused over all this.
I love my Master and Saviour, and find this a little strange what this person is talking about.

Our Master went for forty days and forty nights without food or water.
After that time, was it GOD who came to him, or was it Satan?

This probably won't be the only comment I make, as I have many questions.
Did not Jesus have to discern whether this was an evil one... or an angel of GOD?

First of all, satan said to him, " if you are the son of GOD, command that these stones become bread"
Jesus answers "it has been written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes out of the mouth of GOD".

I'm sorry if I'm a bit ignorant in all this, but Jesus said "it is written".
And also, he said "every word out of the mouth of GOD".

So I looked up where it is written, and found that it is in Deuteronomy 8:3.

Apparently, this is the Law, or what is called the Torah.
I have had to let that sink in, what Jesus said, because I had also remembered in my readings lately that GOD had said to Israel, that He was going to raise up a prophet like Moses. That He was going to put His words in his mouth, and that the person who did not take note of these, would be held accountable.

So that brought up a whole lot of other scriptures for me.
It's like, bang, bang, bang, one after the other, just like Jesus said it would happen. He said the the Holy Spirit would tell us concerning himself.

So I then went to Paul's account at Jerusalem, where he was told that the new gentiles coming into the faith of Jesus Christ, would go to the Synagogue and learn Moses every Sabbath it says.

Well so far, Im not seeing that a forty day fast guarantees that its GOD who speaks to you.


___________________________________________________________________________________________
 

GRACE ambassador

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This probably won't be the only comment I make, as I have many questions.
Precious friend, you just ask ALL the questions you need to. I have found TWO things about God's GRACE, today, and "supposed" dreams and visions for The Body Of CHRIST!:

(1) ...we walk By Faith;
Not by sight:... (2 Corinthians 5:7) {sight = dreams, visions, emotions, feelings, looking for antichrist, signs and wonders, NDEs, etc.}

(2) While "walking By Faith," we Are To Be "looking, watching, and Patiently
waiting For our Blessed Hope, The LORD JESUS CHRIST!"
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25; 1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)

Amen?

Precious Penney, please ask ALL questions, As God's Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided, Is chock Full
of Great answers to End ALL of our Confusion!
 
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kcnalp

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Hello:

You really have a big imagination.
I don’t know anything about the people you are writing about, but you can save yourself a lot of grief and trouble by just trusting the Word of the Lord. He has left us His Word in written form, the Bible.
He is NOT speaking to us in visions and dreams in this age. Everything we need to know about Him and how to live our lives, worship Him, follow Him is in written for us through the Holy Spirit.

May the Lord be with us as we study, serve and honor Him,
charlesj
Acts 2:17 (NKJV)
17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
 

Jay Ross

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Hello,

Like all understandings, the Hebrew Root Movement's thinking presents a differing understanding with respect to the "new" Covenant theology that is the main stay of our churches today..

If we consider the New Testament, and the English translation, "new" with respect to the age of the "item" or "thought," i.e. G:3501, is found found 23 times, and it is not found in association with the term, "covenant," with the exception of: -

Hebrews 12:24: - 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.​
NKJV

where the word "new" is better associated with the word "mediator" rather than "covenant," which is more in keeping with the context of the passage.

upload_2021-10-26_7-47-42.png

However, the Greek word "kainos" is also wrongly translated as "new" in the New Testament and is found 42 times, and has the meaning of something that has been refreshed such that it looks new.

upload_2021-10-26_7-55-26.png

Sadly, because of our poor English Translations, people have developed an understanding that Jesus came to bring in a "brand new" covenant whereas, He stated that He had not come to change or add to the "Law" that already existed.

However, His actions during His first advent, changed the process whereby mankind would receive their salvation, but the basis of that covenant was not changed.

While I might agree with you that the basis of the Hebrew Roots Movement has some undesirable aspects to its teaching, that is also true of the "Normal" teaching of the "Church" today where the predominate tenant of the Church is bound up in the "NEW covenant" rather than the "Refurbished/Renewed Covenant."

We should be very careful that our understanding is in line with God's/Jesus' understanding, before we level any charges against others.

Shalom
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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There are certain issues between Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians that should not be. But I've never heard a Messianic Jew who believes on Jesus Christ try to tell me that the New Covenant is only an extension of the Old Covenant. Nor do I personally know any Messianic Jews that believe Christ's Salvation comes by following the law.

Yet I well know Judaizers like those of Acts 15 and Galatians 2 exist among the Messianic assemblies, just as they also do among all the Churches. God allows them to exist among us as a test, to see if we will listen to Him in His Word or not.

Today there's a special attack against Christianity involving the application of law that the founders of the Christian nations brought from God's Word to govern Christian society. There is a concerted effort by Christ's enemies to destroy that law which has been a protection over Christian society for centuries. In the United States of America it involves those who want to throw out the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, and especially all monuments with The Ten Commandments written upon it. That evil working against Christian society shouldn't be a big surprise, for The LORD warned us about that kind of working for the last days. Leftist groups like the ACLU will go a long ways in helping to protect liberalism, but they seek to tear down monuments of The Ten Commandments and its relationship among the history of the western Christian nations. So like I said, their Leftist movement against Christ Jesus shouldn't be a big surprise.

Dan 7:25
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
(KJV)

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

In OT times when Israel rebelled against God, it was during a time when evil rulers tried to shut God's Word and His prophets up, so as to allow replacement with other ideas, pagan idealism. This is the same... event in the Christian west we're under today by those same ignorant and rebellious offspring of the children of darkness that plagued Israel in OT times.

In Revelation 11, we're given a comparison with God's "two witnesses" that are to come to Jerusalem as a parallel ministry to Elijah's days. Per history in Elijah's days, evil king Ahab and his pagan wife Jezebel of foreign birth had murdered most of God's prophets and Elijah was one of the few that were left, and Jezebel sought especially to have him killed. The last days is going to be a classic repeat of the days of Elijah, when the majority of the people of Israel were deceived into false Baal worship, and those who remained faithful were few.

So don't be deceived into thinking these people are out to protect Christianity by trying to get us to do away with the law system over us per history of the western Christian nations, for they well know they must try to 'change' that law system in order to bring in their 'own' law system. And do you think 'their' system of laws will be favorable to us Christians? I guarantee you they will not be. Thus the OP post could possibly be a propaganda ploy by an Islamic host intent on pushing their Sharia law upon western Christian society, a very real movement in the West today among Muslims.




Where is Veteran now, does anyone know.

The Messianic Jews are not for Jesus Christ at all, for if they were they would become Christians in fact. that's it in a nut shell, they have another Jesus in fact and that's what they truly promote. they are all about the 2ed coming, because they truly reject Jesus Christ in fact and that's clearly their point of view.
 

Truman

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With me, it was back in 1996 that the Lord told me in a distinct voice, 3 times, in 3 identical situation, 3 weeks apart from each other, that I was a Levite. At the time, I viewed myself as a Canadian Christian of English descent.
23 years later He led me to watch a video that began in northern Israel 2,730 years ago and ended in Normandy during the 1500s. My parent's family tree goes back to Normandy during the 1500s.
Between what the Holy Spirit began with me in '96, His activity in my life over the past few years regarding this subject, my connecting with online Christ-centered Hebrew groups, and the teachings of an unusual and brilliant ultra-orthodox Jewish scholar based in Jerusalem, there remains little doubt in my mind that the house of Israel (the ten tribes) are in the early stages of being woken up by the Lord.
I see myself as part of the northern kingdom of the house of Israel, sent into exile by the Lord for worshipping idols and demons 2,730 years ago. I believe that the lost sheep of the house of Israel are being woken back up at this point in time, and at some point in the future, will be once again be joined to form one stick with the house of Judah.
I am aware that there are conflictions with some long-held church views. As I see that we are all part of a larger family in Christ, I hope for dialogue and a mutual growth in understanding of what the Lord is doing in these last days.
It is my belief that we are all of equal value to the Lord and His plans in these, as I presently see them, some of the last days of the end of the age of grace.
The church and the Jewish people are also starting to wake up to this truth. Bless you, and Shalom Aleichem.
 
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Desire Of All Nations

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Any "God" that tells people to reject the Law isn't the true God. The Messiah Himself said He didn't come to start a new religion that was divorced from the Law, and that no one was to even think that was His intention:

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."
- Matt. 5:17

The Messiah clearly stated at least 2 times during His ministry that the Law's authority will last forever, and I believe His words over anyone else's, including those of a deceiver and their "God":

- "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." - Matt. 5:18

"And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail." - Luk. 16:17

I'm actually glad this person mentioned how they supposedly received revelation from God warning them to disregard the Law, because Deut. 13:1-5 alone exposes such a person as a false prophet. In this passage, God explicitly said that if a person claims to receive a vision from Him in an attempt to seduce people away from obeying His laws, that person is to be ignored and treated as a deceiver. No matter how these deranged people try to disguise their satanic thinking as "Christian", the true people of God can see through the camouflage like glass.

People may think i'm out of bounds for saying this, but i 100% refuse to address whoever wants to peddle their contempt for God's laws as a Christian. If that makes people feel some kind of way enough to hate me for it, then so be it. My position is 100% biblical, and i won't budge to placate the feelings of people who want to blaspheme the holy, just, righteous, and eternal laws of God as something that should be repudiated and scorned.
 
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michaelvpardo

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I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused over all this.
I love my Master and Saviour, and find this a little strange what this person is talking about.

Our Master went for forty days and forty nights without food or water.
After that time, was it GOD who came to him, or was it Satan?

This probably won't be the only comment I make, as I have many questions.
Did not Jesus have to discern whether this was an evil one... or an angel of GOD?

First of all, satan said to him, " if you are the son of GOD, command that these stones become bread"
Jesus answers "it has been written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes out of the mouth of GOD".

I'm sorry if I'm a bit ignorant in all this, but Jesus said "it is written".
And also, he said "every word out of the mouth of GOD".

So I looked up where it is written, and found that it is in Deuteronomy 8:3.

Apparently, this is the Law, or what is called the Torah.
I have had to let that sink in, what Jesus said, because I had also remembered in my readings lately that GOD had said to Israel, that He was going to raise up a prophet like Moses. That He was going to put His words in his mouth, and that the person who did not take note of these, would be held accountable.

So that brought up a whole lot of other scriptures for me.
It's like, bang, bang, bang, one after the other, just like Jesus said it would happen. He said the the Holy Spirit would tell us concerning himself.

So I then went to Paul's account at Jerusalem, where he was told that the new gentiles coming into the faith of Jesus Christ, would go to the Synagogue and learn Moses every Sabbath it says.

Well so far, Im not seeing that a forty day fast guarantees that its GOD who speaks to you.


___________________________________________________________________________________________
Jesus didn't go out into the wilderness to fast 40 days, but scripture says He was lead out by the Holy Spirit to be tempted by the devil. The fasting is relevant to the Lord's testing because Israel was tested in the wilderness during the Exodus and failed miserably, grumbling over God's provision of manna and demanding meat (as one example.)
Since many heathen spiritual practices include fasting, it's safe to agree with your final conclusion.
If you haven't read it, I would recommend Isaiah chapter 58, which describes fasting that is pleasing to the Lord, and it isn't about abstaining from food or drink. It's really an awesome chapter and wonderful if you find opportunities in life to apply it's direction.
 
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michaelvpardo

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Hello,

Like all understandings, the Hebrew Root Movement's thinking presents a differing understanding with respect to the "new" Covenant theology that is the main stay of our churches today..

If we consider the New Testament, and the English translation, "new" with respect to the age of the "item" or "thought," i.e. G:3501, is found found 23 times, and it is not found in association with the term, "covenant," with the exception of: -

Hebrews 12:24: - 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.​
NKJV

where the word "new" is better associated with the word "mediator" rather than "covenant," which is more in keeping with the context of the passage.

View attachment 18306

However, the Greek word "kainos" is also wrongly translated as "new" in the New Testament and is found 42 times, and has the meaning of something that has been refreshed such that it looks new.

View attachment 18307

Sadly, because of our poor English Translations, people have developed an understanding that Jesus came to bring in a "brand new" covenant whereas, He stated that He had not come to change or add to the "Law" that already existed.

However, His actions during His first advent, changed the process whereby mankind would receive their salvation, but the basis of that covenant was not changed.

While I might agree with you that the basis of the Hebrew Roots Movement has some undesirable aspects to its teaching, that is also true of the "Normal" teaching of the "Church" today where the predominate tenant of the Church is bound up in the "NEW covenant" rather than the "Refurbished/Renewed Covenant."

We should be very careful that our understanding is in line with God's/Jesus' understanding, before we level any charges against others.

Shalom
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. Jeremiah 31:31-32
Is this a mistranslation? This certainly sounds like an old covenant that couldn't be kept by men, being replaced with a new one (which is entirely consistent with all of Paul's epistles dealing directly with the concept of salvation and the topic of law.)

 
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Jay Ross

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31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new/like new the covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. Jeremiah 31:31-32
Is this a mistranslation? This certainly sounds like an old covenant that couldn't be kept by men, being replaced with a new one (which is entirely consistent with all of Paul's epistles dealing directly with the concept of salvation and the topic of law.)

The Old Covenant that God had made with the Jews was the Kingdom of Priest, the Holy Nation, and His Possession Among the Nations Covenant, which the nation rebelled against while Moses was up on the Mountain with God for the first time for forty days.

In Jeremiah 31:31ff God is telling the nation of Israel that in the distant future, around 2500 years later after Jeremiah wrote this prophecy down, that He would once again re-establish the Kingdom of Priest, the Holy Nation, and His Possession Among the Nations Covenant with the house of Israel, but with a number of tweaks and make it feel like new again for them.

I have a very different take on what God has said He would do in our near future with regards to the nation/people of Israel. My paraphrase of the NKJV reads something like this: -

Ezekiel 11:14-21: - God Will Restore Israel

14 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 15 "Son of man, your brethren, your relatives, your countrymen, and all the house of Israel in its entirety, are those about whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, 'Get far away from the Lord; this land/earth has been given to us as a possession/inheritance.'[1] 16 Therefore say, 'Thus says the Lord God: "Although I have cast them far off among the Gentiles, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet I shall be a little sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone."' 17 Therefore say, 'Thus says the Lord God: "I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land/fertile field of Israel."' 18 And they will go there/come together, and they will take away/remove all its/the detestable things and all its/the abominations from there/amongst them. 19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God. 21 But as for those whose hearts follow the desire for their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their deeds on their own heads," says the Lord God.​

Shalom
[1] Some work still needs to be done on this verse to get an understanding of what it means.