Is Jesus God?

Groundzero said:

Is Jesus God, or is he not?

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How could there be any doubt? There are scriptures to support it.

Here is an example. The Word who is God and was with God became flesh and lived among us.


John 1:1-4 (KJV)
[sup]1 [/sup]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[sup]2 [/sup]The same was in the beginning with God.
[sup]3 [/sup]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[sup]4 [/sup]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

John 1:14-18 (KJV)
[sup]14 [/sup]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[sup]15 [/sup]John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
[sup]16 [/sup]And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
[sup]17 [/sup]For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
[sup]18 [/sup]No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

FlamingZword said:

Jesus was not only God, but he is alone God, there is no such as a trinity,
The doctrine of the trinity was not part of early christianity.

Jesus clearly said, I am in the Father and the Father is in me.
this is a clear declaration by Jesus that he and the father are the same one.

www.one-lord.org

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So who was speaking here in reference to Jesus as His Son?

Matthew 3:17 (ASV)
[sup]17 [/sup]and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

duckybill/prentis/buzzfruit:

Jesus Christ is the Son of God...no one is disputing that point with me, are they?

Jesus Christ is the Son of God for one reason only...his thought patterns are the same as Almighty God's and by his righteous teaching and resurrection this was proven beyond measure.

There is only one reason Jesus thinks as God does...righteousness.

Righteousness is a code of conduct that brings alive God's active force into our lives. It cannot fail. If we allow Jesus Christ's teaching to blossom within us we are participating in God's science. We are paying back for our sins and being brought back to the condition of Adam, before he took his guidence from Eve. This means we are becoming a part of God's everlasting system of things...all because we followed 'the way, the truth and the life', accurately, and as it is written, rather than what clever people have decided...in error.

In the beginning was the word...the science behind the laws of the universe.
And the word was with God...Almighty God owns these laws.
And the word was God...Almighty God is a spiritual being who exists by virtue of these laws.
And the word of God was the light of the world...Everything that comes from God is expressed to bring out the finest laws the universe offers.

The word is Christ, not science laws!

All life is given through Christ. Not science.

NicholasMarks said:

duckybill/prentis/buzzfruit:

Jesus Christ is the Son of God...no one is disputing that point with me, are they?

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Well, I was responding to Groundzero and FlamingZword.

NicholasMarks said:

Jesus Christ is the Son of God for one reason only...his thought patterns are the same as Almighty God's and by his righteous teaching and resurrection this was proven beyond measure.

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The scripture that I post in response to Groundzero proves that it was more than that. In verse 1 of John 14 it clearly tell us that He was not only with God, but was God.



The problem is people do not understand what the Word is (notice I did not say who the Word is) in light of God, and therefore cannot understand how is it that the Word can also be God, even though there is only one God.

There is a very good reason why the word Word is used, as oppose to using some other word. This may seem contradictory to say, but the Trinity doctrine makes it hard to understand why Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God and the Father is God, but at the same time only one God. It is far better to let the Bible deal with that.

Buzzfruit:

It isn't very Christian to labour a point against sicerely held contradiction...so I'll let this point lie after I have pointed out that by not examining this point carefully we are missing out from the accurate truth. A truth that will have to overpower all science because that is a certainly the power of an all knowing God.

If we say Jesus is God then we have succesfully disposed of the God who sent him...and that is disrespectful to Jesus and to Almighy God.

No one comes to the father unless it is through Jesus' accurate teaching.

NicholasMarks,

Which part are you disputing? The Word was God? Or the Word became flesh and dwelt among us? Jesus wasn't the Word?

John 1 The Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

The Scriptures are sure on this point that Jesus of Nazareth is The Christ, and that The Christ is God The Saviour. That is the specific testimony God gives through His prophet Isaiah in Isaiah 7 & 9 about Christ.

To recognize Jesus Christ is God is not doing The Father an injustice. It is admitting that God came in the flesh like He said He would do (per that Isaiah 7 chapter, born of a virgin). This is why His Name given there is "Immanuel" which means 'with us is God', and that very truth is testified of again in Matthew 1:23 by mention and definition of that same Name.

Just because some cannot leave their fleshy carnal mind when trying to understand that is no reason to assume it is any other way than written in God's Word.


Christ Jesus in the flesh on earth praying to The Father was but a sign of His flesh birth to suffer on the cross for us. That never meant He stopped being God The Saviour...

Heb 2:9-10
9 But we see Jesus, Who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became Him, for Whom are all things, and by Whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
(KJV)

Heb 2:14-16
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.
(KJV)

It was Christ's flesh body that was made, not His Spirit. God came in the flesh as The Saviour to die on the cross, for God said in Isaiah 45:21 that He is The Saviour, and there is none else. This is why when Peter declared that Jesus of Nazareth is 'The Christ' in Matt.16, he was declaring Jesus is God The Saviour. This is why our Lord Jesus then said Peter was blessed in that, for flesh and blood had not revealed it to him, but The Father in Heaven.

NicholasMarks said:

Buzzfruit:

It isn't very Christian to labour a point against sicerely held contradiction...so I'll let this point lie after I have pointed out that by not examining this point carefully we are missing out from the accurate truth. A truth that will have to overpower all science because that is a certainly the power of an all knowing God.

If we say Jesus is God then we have succesfully disposed of the God who sent him...and that is disrespectful to Jesus and to Almighy God.

No one comes to the father unless it is through Jesus' accurate teaching.

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All you have done is prove your ability to ignore the scriptures (John 1:1,14) that I post that say the Word, who became flesh (Jesus) is God.

It is very disappointing but not surprising how disingenuous some Christians can be when it comes to obvious scriptures that contradicts their personal belief.

Duckybill/veteran/Buzzfruit:

Jesus Christ is 'the way, the truth and the life'. Almighty God's righteous laws only work one way and by following Jesus accurately, we too share in the wonderful knowledge that is the 'word'. Almighty God owns it and Jesus Christ delivered it to us and showed how it is as beneficial to the flesh, as it is to the spirit.

By your reasoning...if Jesus had sinned whilst on Earth, Almighty God would have died from that sin. Of course he didn't and Jesus Christ became the perfect deliverer of God's salvation which brings all universal laws under one umbrella...one understanding...and that understanding is righteousness. And we know this to be true because it has been done twice...once in Heaven and once here on Earth...and it will all shortly come to fruition here...but it requires a careful examination of Jesus' accurate teaching.

NicholasMarks said:

Duckybill/veteran/Buzzfruit:
By your reasoning...if Jesus had sinned whilst on Earth, Almighty God would have died from that sin.

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Who said such? God did die in the flesh, but not because He sinned.

John 10:17-18 (NKJV)
17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.

John 10:27-30 (NKJV)
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one."

Jesus is God.

NicholasMarks said:

Duckybill/veteran/Buzzfruit:

By your reasoning...if Jesus had sinned whilst on Earth, Almighty God would have died from that sin. Of course he didn't and Jesus Christ became the perfect deliverer of God's salvation which brings all universal laws under one umbrella...one understanding...and that understanding is righteousness. And we know this to be true because it has been done twice...once in Heaven and once here on Earth...and it will all shortly come to fruition here...but it requires a careful examination of Jesus' accurate teaching.

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Of course it was God who died.....God in the flesh. And it was not possible for Jesus/the Word/God to sin, since it is not in His Nature to sin. And it not my reasoning.....the scripture is very clear.......Jesus is God.

To All,

Many propose that Jesus is both GOD and man, to which I disagree. This might be analagous to being the son of the company owner. Of course the son is assigned vice president, but what can he demonstrate to his workforce that he understands their challenges, except that he become one of them. Thus he lays aside his vice presidency, and becomes a lowly employee. And where his vice president salary would make him immune to daily challenges, he had to struggle like every other man

Philippians 2

[sup]5[/sup] Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, [sup]6[/sup] who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, [sup]7[/sup] but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.


And Scripture further validates that there was no GOD authority (heritage, -- yes) in this man:


James 1:13


[sup]13[/sup] Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.


... and of course we know that Jesus WAS tempted, thus he was not under his GOD authority (heritage, -- yes). But equally there is NO evidence that Jesus performed any feat that could not be preformed by men, including walking on water (Peter did it); or being transformed into light (Moses face glowed); or any other miracle, including raising someone from the dead (Elijah did it).

Furthermore Jesus himself said that we can do these things, and greater:


John 14:12

[sup]12[/sup] “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.


So I would only suggest that Jesus was fully GOD by heritage, but fully man in life.


BibleScribe

1 Timothy 3
16 ------------ God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by messengers, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.


It doesn't get any plainer than that.

ALL:

Jesus Christ and Almighty God are one in the sense that they have both followed the same path of righteousness. Jesus…here, on planet Earth, and Almighty God, in Heaven. They are both in receipt of a wonderful status induced by their sinlessness and that Is, an everlasting, spirit, of an omnipotent disposition and they hold the highest authority over the whole universe, in which, there are many mansions.
Jesus followed a path that Almighty God had already pioneered and though Jesus became like God he said that he wouldn’t challenge his father’s authority who remained, the One, True, God.
The whole New Testament tells us these things, just as John 15, 16, 17 does…Both beings are one in righteousness but two in spirit.
This is important because we can all follow Jesus if we desire a righteous world but no one can follow Almighty God unless they are without sin and introduced to God by Jesus’ accurate word…or…put another way…no one comes to the father unless it is through Jesus’ accurate teaching..

NicholasMarks said:

ALL:

Jesus Christ and Almighty God are one in the sense that they have both followed the same path of righteousness. Jesus…here, on planet Earth, and Almighty God, in Heaven. They are both in receipt of a wonderful status induced by their sinlessness and that Is, an everlasting, spirit, of an omnipotent disposition and they hold the highest authority over the whole universe, in which, there are many mansions.
Jesus followed a path that Almighty God had already pioneered and though Jesus became like God he said that he wouldn’t challenge his father’s authority who remained, the One, True, God.
The whole New Testament tells us these things, just as John 15, 16, 17 does…Both beings are one in righteousness but two in spirit.
This is important because we can all follow Jesus if we desire a righteous world but no one can follow Almighty God unless they are without sin and introduced to God by Jesus’ accurate word…or…put another way…no one comes to the father unless it is through Jesus’ accurate teaching..

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No, it means more than that....it’s the same God manifested as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If what you are saying were not the case then we would have more than one God. Like I said before, the problem is how people understand the Trinity. To me the Trinity doctrine does not explain what the Word is, or even what does the Holy Spirit is in light of the Father and the Son.


Let me explain it: the World who became flesh is God's thought made audible.....that is why the word Word is used in John 1:1. In the Greek the word is Logos.....thought and speech. The Holy Spirit is simply God in action.....God doing something. Whenever the Holy Spirit is mentioned it means that God is doing something. For example: the Spirit if God moved on the surface of the waters in Gen. 1:2. Just as you and I have a mind and think and is able to speak, so does God……God’s thought is God and was made audible, the same way your thought made audible is you……it is how others recognize you when you are speaking, even when they don’t see you. And just as you are able to act and do things, so does God, and that is also God. This is the reason why we are in God’s image……we have a mind and can think and able to express our thought when we speak, and we can act on what is in our mind; such as doing some kind of work or activity. All three are distinct and can be observed in some form.

Revelation 21: 3-4

The tabernacle of God will certainly be with us for we will have a total understanding of righteousness and that understanding will be learnt, understood, shared and worshipped via Jesus Christ's accurate teaching. That accurate teaching will indeed wipe every tear from the eyes of the faithful. Death will certainly be overpowered because upbuilding an indestructable, righteous, spirit, within us, is the ultimate expression of our belief in God and in the teaching of his son. This teaching reaches out into all the pain of death and destruction which is almost worshipped in todays world. These pains of today's world are showing us that we are in the 'last days'...the 'great tribulation' is just around the corner and its periphery is all around us today.

My suggestion is that we carry on working towards righteousness...carry on trying to be part of a righteous world and carry on exploring Jesus Christ's accurate word to assertain a true perspective on the organizational structure of Almighty God's kingdom.

To All,

I would most strongly propose that Philippians 2:7 is correct, in that Jesus laid aside his DIVINE nature to become a man. This is substantiated in that he was tempted, which is not possible if he was GOD. (Ref. James 1:13) And it is a false doctrine to assert that he was BOTH, for then BOTH would have been equally tempted.

Certainly during his ministry on earth he retained his GOD heritage, but he divested himself of that authority and chose the life of a mere mortal. And subsequent to the demise of his flesh, he CLEARLY returned to HIS previous authority. But it seems the question in this Topic, is: ~When Jesus was on earth, was he GOD or MAN~? And per Scripture, he existed as a mere man.



BibleScribe

Buzzfruit said:

... it is not in His Nature to sin. ...

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Hi Buzzfruit,

If it's not in HIS nature to sin, then he wasn't really tempted.

It's like ~ Oil is not miscible in water, but the water and oil were tempted to be together ~. No, it's really not a challenge for the water to remain separate from the oil. However, if the two were compatible, say for example water and milk, then it is a feat to pour the two together and have them remain separate. Thus Jesus (~being the water~) and sin (~being the milk~) were possible, except that Jesus made a choice not to join himself with sin. Thus he remained sinless unto death and became the sacrifice for our sins..


BibleScribe

Prentis said:

... if Jesus is not fully God, then there is no power to be like God that can flow from him. ..

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I wish someone would cite ONE power which Jesus exercised, that is not available to man?!?


Otherwise, everything that Jesus did was as a man, and equally within the grasp of each of us.



BibleScribe

BibleScribe said:

Hi Buzzfruit,

If it's not in HIS nature to sin, then he wasn't really tempted.

It's like ~ Oil is not miscible in water, but the water and oil were tempted to be together ~. No, it's really not a challenge for the water to remain separate from the oil. However, if the two were compatible, say for example water and milk, then it is a feat to pour the two together and have them remain separate. Thus Jesus (~being the water~) and sin (~being the milk~) were possible, except that Jesus made a choice not to join himself with sin. Thus he remained sinless unto death and became the sacrifice for our sins..

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Jesus being tempted means that sin was put before Him and despite the fact that He was human as we are He never gave in......not even in His thoughts. Remember, that even thinking wrong thoughts is a sin even if you did not carry it out. No sin was in Him because as I said it was never in Jesus' Nature to sin.