Is Jesus God?

justaname · Feb 27, 2012

Groundzero said:
Good point. I've always wondered how in the world they could be co-equal if the Father could send the Son down to earth to die a horrible death. And even better yet, the Son then stays in subjection to the Father. Oops. There goes the co-equality of the persons!

Solution: Jesus is God, something the Scriptures make clear. Yet if he is only the Son, we find that he cannot be God because he isn't even equal with the other members of the 'holy' trinity. Therefore, Jesus is God, wholly, in every sense. There are no other entities that make up God. Jesus is all that there is.

Jesus prayed to the Father and spoke of His Father often. You are attempting to reconcile a mystery of God using human intelligence and reason. You will always fail.

Psalm 110:1

Davids Lords are presented here.

Genesis 1:26

Let us make man in our image.

The only way I can explain it is this, think of Jesus as being created in the physical sense (man), but eternal in the spiritual sense (God). I hope this helps.

To further the point we have Jesus' prayer.
John 17:21

Groundzero · Feb 27, 2012

justaname said:
Jesus prayed to the Father and spoke of His Father often. You are attempting to reconcile a mystery of God using human intelligence and reason. You will always fail.

Psalm 110:1

Davids Lords are presented here.

Genesis 1:26

Let us make man in our image.

The only way I can explain it is this, think of Jesus as being created in the physical sense (man), but eternal in the spiritual sense (God). I hope this helps.

To further the point we have Jesus' prayer.
John 17:21

Where is the mystery of the Trinity mentioned?
I do know of a mystery of Godliness. And this is the mystery: GOD MANIFEST in FLESH.
1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Feb 27, 2012

justaname said:
Jesus prayed to the Father and spoke of His Father often. You are attempting to reconcile a mystery of God using human intelligence and reason. You will always fail.

Isn't that exactly what those who believe God is three separate persons are doing? Describing God as three separate persons seems to me to be a rather wordly, carnal, inept way of explaining a very deep mystery.

lawrance · Feb 27, 2012

Groundzero said:
So you have the audacity to tell people that three co-equal persons of the Godhead who, though made of the same substance, are distinct persons, raised one of those three persons from the dead?

I see that there it's no use to talk to hard headed simpletons just trying to talk stupid rubbish.
Stop idolising the book an see it for what it is and how it came about and you may wake up to yourselves.
It's like foolish cops that can look to the book on laws and try to make one stick and the law may be there in the book but it has to be used with commonsense.
People that use this type of attacks on the trinity just bury their head in the sand and don't want to understand it and they will never get it because they are so up them selves, i am sorry to say but it is true..but it has to be said !
They are attacking Jesus Christ in stealth and it is the work of Satan as he can come so close to the truth but leads one astray.
One could simply say that it's 3 in one and one in 3 but never is it, all are the same that is stupid ! and it robs each one of it's true position. they are one in the same, but not the same.

A fundamentalist mate of mine says that one should be narrow minded and his guru said so as well. i argued that is just ridiculous and i have never heard of such stupidity ! now do you lot think the same way as old mate ? and is that were you are coming from.

Groundzero · Feb 27, 2012

MR ROSENBERGER said:
I see that there it's no use to talk to hard headed simpletons just trying to talk stupid rubbish.
Stop idolising the book an see it for what it is and how it came about and you may wake up to yourselves.
It's like foolish cops that can look to the book on laws and try to make one stick and the law may be there in the book but it has to be used with commonsense.
People that use this type of attacks on the trinity just bury their head in the sand and don't want to understand it and they will never get it because they are so up them selves, i am sorry to say but it is true..but it has to be said !
They are attacking Jesus Christ in stealth and it is the work of Satan as he can come so close to the truth but leads one astray.
One could simply say that it's 3 in one and one in 3 but never is it, all are the same that is stupid ! and it robs each one of it's true position. they are one in the same, but not the same.

A fundamentalist mate of mine says that one should be narrow minded and his guru said so as well. i argued that is just ridiculous and i have never heard of such stupidity ! now do you lot think the same way as old mate ? and is that were you are coming from.

lol. Most people who are around me would say that I have rather radical views actually!
You still haven't answered the question. Who raised Jesus from the dead?

justaname · Feb 28, 2012

The mystery of the trinity is never mentioned, you are correct. As far as your question about who raised Jesus from the dead, I think I know the verse you are thinking of.
John 2:19

I think you fail to see a few things through though, unless you have then I need to ask. First, who did Jesus pray to? Why does Jesus not sit on the throne, instead He is at the right hand of God His Father? Who is the HolySpirit? If Jesus is God alone, then how is God Spirit, because Jesus is flesh? Why does it say in Genesis 1:26 "Let us make man in our image after our likeness"? Why does David have more than one Lord as in Psalm 110?

Please explain these using your concept of Jesus.

lawrance · Feb 28, 2012

With John 2:19 we see that it is that Jesus only does the will of the Father. and that is what Jesus does, as we should do also.
Jesus is our example and guide. we must abide in him and he in us.

Lively Stone · Feb 28, 2012

What about these, just two of many which say the same thing?

Acts 13:30
But God raised Him from the dead.

Acts 10:40
But God raised Him to life on the third day and caused Him to be manifest (to be plainly seen),

Groundzero · Feb 29, 2012

justaname said:
The mystery of the trinity is never mentioned, you are correct. As far as your question about who raised Jesus from the dead, I think I know the verse you are thinking of.
John 2:19

I think you fail to see a few things through though, unless you have then I need to ask. First, who did Jesus pray to? Why does Jesus not sit on the throne, instead He is at the right hand of God His Father? Who is the HolySpirit? If Jesus is God alone, then how is God Spirit, because Jesus is flesh? Why does it say in Genesis 1:26 "Let us make man in our image after our likeness"? Why does David have more than one Lord as in Psalm 110?

Please explain these using your concept of Jesus.

1. Jesus prayed to the Father. (we will double back to this soon.)
2. Right hand of God is a figure of speech referring to glory and majesty. If you like, I can get into, but atm I'll just give a quick explanation.

. As for Jesus 'not' sitting on a throne, I beg to differ. In Revelations, we find that there is ONE throne. Something tells me that the one who sits on that throne is none other than Jesus Christ, because he is the King of kings and the Lord of lords. Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of Jesus. In Ephesians we find that there is ONE spirit (Eph 4:4). The Father is also a spirit, so it stands to reason that they are not two distinct persons, but rather one spirit under different titles. I know that this explanation is wanting more explanation, but I haven't got the time atm to get into it. I will point out though, that when Jesus was talking about the Comforter, he claimed that he would not leave the disciples orphans, but that he would come to them. (Joh_14:18)
4. Jesus Christ had a dual personality. This is referred to in Scripture as the mystery of Godliness.(1Ti_3:16) The mystery is how God could be manifest in the flesh. You will find that the dual personality will unlock who Jesus really was: God and man fused but not confused.
5. Genesis 1:26 can be explained in several ways. 1. royal language. 2. God was talking to angels. 3. We say ourselves, Let us see, what will I do today." even when there's no one around.
Please note something as well: If it really was the Trinity conferring, why does it just say God? Are we to assume that God in that reference is the Father, the Son, or the HOly Ghost? Whichever one we pick, we find that we are assuming.
6. The answer to this question, I have taken from a site, since I wouldn't be able to explain it much better: http://www.answering-christianity.com/more_oneness.htm
Answer: By rendering Psalms 110:1 as, ". . . the Lord said to my Lord . . ." Christians argue that Jesus is greater than David and is not only the Messiah but is part of a Trinitarian godhead as well (see Matthew 22:42-45, Mark 12:35-37, Luke 20:41-44, Acts 2:34-36, Hebrews 1:13). Yet, a careful examination finds their hypothesis to be totally without merit.
Since le-David, in verse 1, does not always mean "written by David," but sometimes "concerning David" or "in the style of David," it cannot be said with certainty that the preposition le, often translated "of," actually indicates "composed by David." Further investigation is necessary in order to understand its meaning as governed by the context of this psalm.
Let us examine Psalm 72. It was written by David "for," or "concerning," Solomon (cf. verses 1 and 20), yet the Hebrew contains an introductory phrase similar to the one found in Psalm 110. The introductory statement, li- S'hlomo, stresses that the psalm is "concerning" Solomon rather than that it is by Solomon. Even more significant is 2 Samuel 22:51 and Psalms 144:10, where David speaks of himself in the third person. Accordingly, there is every indication that the proper translation of Psalms 110:1 is: "A Psalm concerning David. HaShem says to my master ['adoni]: 'Sit at My right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.'" David is writing this psalm from the perspective of the individual who is going to recite it. From this perspective, David, as king, is appropriately referred to as "my master." The claim that David is actually (or also) referring to Jesus by the phrase "my master" is not supported by the text.
The privilege of sitting at the right hand is a mark of distinction (1 Kings 2:19). When God invites David to "sit at My right hand," it is to show the privileged position enjoyed by David in his relationship with God. It is not to be taken as literally indicating sitting at God's right hand. The terminology "right hand" is here used as an expression of God's favoritism toward David.
Ok. I want to swing back to the fact that Jesus prayed to the Father. The fact that Jesus prayed does not pose any issues to the Oneness. It does however to the Trinity. As a man, Jesus prayed to God. You might like to say that he prayed to himself, so be it. All throughout the Gospel, we find that Jesus acted and talked like a real man, but at times, he also acted and talked as God. When Jesus prayed, he prayed as a man, but get this, Jesus also answered prayer! Joh_14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. When Jesus made this statement, he wasn't talking as a man, but as God.
The issues that the Trinity faces with Jesus praying, is that one prays because there is someone greater than him. If Jesus is not the Father, he un-deifies himself by praying. And then he is no longer God.
When you read of something Jesus says, ask yourself, is he talking as a man, or as Almighty God? This key will help you immensely.

MR ROSENBERGER said:
With John 2:19 we see that it is that Jesus only does the will of the Father. and that is what Jesus does, as we should do also.
Jesus is our example and guide. we must abide in him and he in us.

Can you explain to me why Jesus claimed that he would raise himself from the dead, yet the apostle Paul said that God the Father raised him from the dead? (Gal_1:1)
Also, who was the father of the baby Jesus?

Lively Stone said:
What about these, just two of many which say the same thing?

Acts 13:30
But God raised Him from the dead.

Acts 10:40
But God raised Him to life on the third day and caused Him to be manifest (to be plainly seen),

Thanks. Now if I was to have a look quickly at these verses, we find that it was God who raised Jesus from the dead. But then that makes Jesus lower than God. Also, it clashes with John 2:19, where Jesus claims that he will raise himself from the dead.

The dual personality of Jesus quickly explains it. In the above references, Jesus is being referred to as man. Whereas in John, Jesus was speaking as deity.

If the Trinity wishes to explain these verses, we quickly find that Jesus will no longer be deity, but rather becomes a 'lesser' god, if there is such a thing.

Lively Stone · Feb 29, 2012

When you read of something Jesus says, ask yourself, is he talking as a man, or as Almighty God?

John 5:30
I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.

John 5:43a
For I have come to you in my Father’s name,

John 8:28-29
So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man on the cross, then you will understand that I AM he. I do nothing on my own but say only what the Father taught me. [sup]29[/sup] And the one who sent me is with me—he has not deserted me. For I always do what pleases him.”

John 8:38
I am telling you what I saw when I was with my Father. But you are following the advice of your father.”

Angelina · Feb 29, 2012

Hi GZ!

your qoute

You might like to say that he prayed to himself, so be it. All throughout the Gospel, we find that Jesus acted and talked like a real man, but at times, he also acted and talked as God. When Jesus prayed, he prayed as a man, but get this, Jesus also answered prayer!

Joh_14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. When Jesus made this statement, he wasn't talking as a man, but as God.

wait a minute...when he said that, he also said that he was going to the Father...so he was actually talking about when he ascends not at that present time... :huh:

John 14
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

and what about this verse dear brother

Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

Who is he crying out to?...do you think he was suffering and in agony when he said this???

and this one...

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, [sup]2 [/sup]has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; [sup]3 [/sup]who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, [sup]4 [/sup]having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

God the Father made his Son heir of all things....

Psalms 8
What is man that You are mindful of him,
And the son of man that You visit him?
5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels,
And You have crowned him with glory and honor.

6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands;
You have put all things under his feet,

In Hebrews 1 the writer makes a clear distinction between angels and his Son...

But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
[sup]9 [/sup]You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.

...this is how I view it. God [the Father] sent his Son, [who is equal to his father] born by the Holy Spirit to fulfill a prophecy given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and those who believe in him by faith. His purpose was to live in his flesh body, fulfilling the requirements of the law and to die on the cross as a perfect sacrifice on behalf of all who believe in him by faith. This sacrifice that was needed to restore what was stolen in the garden through disobedience and for those who believe will receive, the promised Holy Spirit [our helper] and an eternal inheritance which was also promised. Hebrews 9:5

Philippians 2[sup]5[/sup]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[sup]6[/sup]Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[sup]7[/sup]But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[sup]8[/sup]And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
[sup]9[/sup]Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
[sup]10[/sup]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
[sup]11[/sup]And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. '

This is his inheritance as heir and great High Priest of the eternal Kingdom...

Blessings!!!

HeRoseFromTheDead · Feb 29, 2012

Groundzero said:
As for Jesus 'not' sitting on a throne, I beg to differ. In Revelations, we find that there is ONE throne. Something tells me that the one who sits on that throne is none other than Jesus Christ, because he is the King of kings and the Lord of lords. Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

The one mentioned in Revelation 4:2 is not Jesus Christ, the son of man; but the father, the Ancient of Days. Notice that that one has no form of a person, but is merely described as color, i.e., jasper stone and sardius in appearance. Jesus Christ, the one who does have the from of a person, comes to this one and receives a kingdom, glory, and dominion,

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14

The father may be called Jesus, but he is not Jesus Christ. That title is reserved to the son of man, who sat with the father in his throne.

Groundzero said:
Jesus Christ had a dual personality. This is referred to in Scripture as the mystery of Godliness.(1Ti_3:16) The mystery is how God could be manifest in the flesh. You will find that the dual personality will unlock who Jesus really was: God and man fused but not confused.

It's not that Jesus had a dual personality, or even a dual nature. God, the father, through him created a new thing. By making the word (i.e., the lord of hosts) flesh, he made man and God one. God didn't diminish himself by taking the form of a man, but instead assimilated man who was made in God's image into the godhead.

Groundzero said:
Please note something as well: If it really was the Trinity conferring, why does it just say God? Are we to assume that God in that reference is the Father, the Son, or the HOly Ghost? Whichever one we pick, we find that we are assuming.

Whichever one we pick has to be determined by context. Sometimes it's irrelevant.

Groundzero said:
The answer to this question, I have taken from a site, since I wouldn't be able to explain it much better: http://www.answering...ore_oneness.htm

I certainly hope you would be better able. That's an Islamist website. Why would you even use such a website to argue your case?

Groundzero said:
Psalms 110:1 as, ". . . the Lord said to my Lord . . ."

This prophecy refers to Revelation 5:6-7 onward when the son (my lord) sits at the right hand of the father (YHWH) until his enemies are made his footstool.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he [i.e. the father] is excepted, which did put all things under him [i.e., the son]. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [i.e., the father] that put all things under him [i.e., the son], that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:15

Groundzero said:
The issues that the Trinity faces with Jesus praying, is that one prays because there is someone greater than him. If Jesus is not the Father, he un-deifies himself by praying. And then he is no longer God. When you read of something Jesus says, ask yourself, is he talking as a man, or as Almighty God? This key will help you immensely.

That's an absurd statement. The sciptures unequivocably teach that the son is subject to the father. How does that undeify him?

Groundzero said:
Can you explain to me why Jesus claimed that he would raise himself from the dead, yet the apostle Paul said that God the Father raised him from the dead? (Gal_1:1) ... Now if I was to have a look quickly at these verses, we find that it was God who raised Jesus from the dead. But then that makes Jesus lower than God. Also, it clashes with John 2:19, where Jesus claims that he will raise himself from the dead.

Jesus stating that he would raise the temple of his body in three days, doesn't prove your point. He could have been speaking obliquely to the Pharisees, maybe even to make them stumble, much like when he said, "except you drink my blood".

You make some good points, Angelina.

I will add that when the son was suffering agony, the father was not, but was in fact pleased that through his son the separation between man and God was finally coming to an end.

justaname · Feb 29, 2012

Groundzero is it that you believe in at-one-ment?

logabe · Feb 29, 2012

HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The one mentioned in Revelation 4:2 is not Jesus Christ, the son of man; but the father, the Ancient of Days. Notice that that one has no form of a person, but is merely described as color, i.e., jasper stone and sardius in appearance. Jesus Christ, the one who does have the from of a person, comes to this one and receives a kingdom, glory, and dominion,

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14

The father may be called Jesus, but he is not Jesus Christ. That title is reserved to the son of man, who sat with the father in his throne.

It's not that Jesus had a dual personality, or even a dual nature. God, the father, through him created a new thing. By making the word (i.e., the lord of hosts) flesh, he made man and God one. God didn't diminish himself by taking the form of a man, but instead assimilated man who was made in God's image into the godhead.

Whichever one we pick has to be determined by context. Sometimes it's irrelevant.

I certainly hope you would be better able. That's an Islamist website. Why would you even use such a website to argue your case?

[/color]
This prophecy refers to Revelation 5:6-7 onward when the son (my lord)

sits at the right hand of the father

Click to expand...

(YHWH) until his enemies are made his footstool.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he [i.e. the father] is excepted, which did put all things under him [i.e., the son]. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [i.e., the father] that put all things under him [i.e., the son], that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:15

That's an absurd statement. The sciptures unequivocably teach that the son is subject to the father. How does that undeify him?

Jesus stating that he would raise the temple of his body in three days, doesn't prove your point. He could have been speaking obliquely to the Pharisees, maybe even to make them stumble, much like when he said, "except you drink my blood".

You make some good points, Angelina.

I will add that when the son was suffering agony, the father was not, but was in fact pleased that through his son the separation between man and God was finally coming to an end.

Let's let Jesus define the right hand of the Father. In Mark 14:62 Jesus says,

62 And Jesus said, "I am ; and you shall see THE
SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF
Power, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF
HEAVEN."

I hope this helps because I do understand this is a "GREAT MYSTERY" and
everyone will not be able to see the truth about Jesus because it wouldn't
be a secret anymore.

But in essence, I will give it a shot @ explaining to my best ability the statement
Jesus made in that scripture.

Jesus was going to ascend to the Heavens where he would sit in the POWER of
the Spirit which is according to Jesus "the Father's right hand".

Logabe

justaname · Feb 29, 2012

The triune God can be explained this way by a Christian. We believe in one God, in three persons, all equal. They are the same in nature, essence, and substance. They are different in person and office.

Genesis 1:26-27 The us and our is undeniable.
Matthew 3:16-17 Here there is Jesus (Son), a voice from heaven(Father), and the spirt of God(HolySpirit).
Matthew 28:18-19 An edict from Jesus, and the trinity defined.
Luke 1:35 Three separate persons described here.
John 14:16 Again, Jesus asks the Father, for the advocate.
Philippians 2:6-11 Here we see Jesus and His role or office.
Matthew 17:20-24 Jesus prays to the Father, and explains their relation.

The very name Elohim does not mean "gods", however concerning the trinity, the form indeed allows for the plurality within the Godhead.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Mar 1, 2012

justaname said:
The triune God can be explained this way by a Christian. We believe in one God, in three persons, all equal. They are the same in nature, essence, and substance. They are different in person and office.

Per this belief, do these three persons each have their own body?

justaname · Mar 1, 2012

It is known there is one body, where as Jesus is the head, and His head is God.
God is Spirit. (Father)
The HolySpirit is Spirit.
Jesus Christ is flesh and bone. (Son)

We as believers are brought into this body, as living stones, to create a Holy Temple, where Jesus Christ is the capstone and cornerstone. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, amen.

logabe · Mar 4, 2012

Here are few scriptures to ponder:

Isa. 42:8,

8 "I am the LORD, that is My name ; I will not give My
glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.

Isa. 43:10,

10 "You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And
My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may
know and believe Me And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed, And there will
be none after Me. 11 "I, even I, am the LORD, And
there is no savior besides Me.

Isa. 44:8,

8 "Do not tremble and do not be afraid ; have I not
long since announced it to you and declared it? And
you are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me,
Or is there any other Rock ? I know of none.' "

Isa. 44:24,

24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one
who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the
maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by
Myself And spreading out the earth all alone ,

Isa. 45:5-6,

5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other ; Besides Me
there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not
known Me;
6 That men may know from the rising to the setting
of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the
LORD, and there is no other,

Isa. 45:18,

18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens
(He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He
established it and did not create it a waste place, but
formed it to be inhabited ), "I am the LORD, and there
is none else.

Isa. 45:21-22,

21 "Declare and set forth your case; Indeed, let them
consult together. Who has announced this from of old ?
Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD ?
And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God
and a Savior ; There is none except Me.
22 "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth ;
For I am God, and there is no other.

I sure hope Jesus is God, if not, He is in some TROUBLE.

Logabe

lawrance · Mar 4, 2012

Groundzero said:
1. Jesus prayed to the Father. (we will double back to this soon.)
2. Right hand of God is a figure of speech referring to glory and majesty. If you like, I can get into, but atm I'll just give a quick explanation. . As for Jesus 'not' sitting on a throne, I beg to differ. In Revelations, we find that there is ONE throne. Something tells me that the one who sits on that throne is none other than Jesus Christ, because he is the King of kings and the Lord of lords. Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of Jesus. In Ephesians we find that there is ONE spirit (Eph 4:4). The Father is also a spirit, so it stands to reason that they are not two distinct persons, but rather one spirit under different titles. I know that this explanation is wanting more explanation, but I haven't got the time atm to get into it. I will point out though, that when Jesus was talking about the Comforter, he claimed that he would not leave the disciples orphans, but that he would come to them. (Joh_14:18)
4. Jesus Christ had a dual personality. This is referred to in Scripture as the mystery of Godliness.(1Ti_3:16) The mystery is how God could be manifest in the flesh. You will find that the dual personality will unlock who Jesus really was: God and man fused but not confused.
5. Genesis 1:26 can be explained in several ways. 1. royal language. 2. God was talking to angels. 3. We say ourselves, Let us see, what will I do today." even when there's no one around.
Please note something as well: If it really was the Trinity conferring, why does it just say God? Are we to assume that God in that reference is the Father, the Son, or the HOly Ghost? Whichever one we pick, we find that we are assuming.
6. The answer to this question, I have taken from a site, since I wouldn't be able to explain it much better: http://www.answering...ore_oneness.htm
Answer: By rendering Psalms 110:1 as, ". . . the Lord said to my Lord . . ." Christians argue that Jesus is greater than David and is not only the Messiah but is part of a Trinitarian godhead as well (see Matthew 22:42-45, Mark 12:35-37, Luke 20:41-44, Acts 2:34-36, Hebrews 1:13). Yet, a careful examination finds their hypothesis to be totally without merit.
Since le-David, in verse 1, does not always mean "written by David," but sometimes "concerning David" or "in the style of David," it cannot be said with certainty that the preposition le, often translated "of," actually indicates "composed by David." Further investigation is necessary in order to understand its meaning as governed by the context of this psalm.
Let us examine Psalm 72. It was written by David "for," or "concerning," Solomon (cf. verses 1 and 20), yet the Hebrew contains an introductory phrase similar to the one found in Psalm 110. The introductory statement, li- S'hlomo, stresses that the psalm is "concerning" Solomon rather than that it is by Solomon. Even more significant is 2 Samuel 22:51 and Psalms 144:10, where David speaks of himself in the third person. Accordingly, there is every indication that the proper translation of Psalms 110:1 is: "A Psalm concerning David. HaShem says to my master ['adoni]: 'Sit at My right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.'" David is writing this psalm from the perspective of the individual who is going to recite it. From this perspective, David, as king, is appropriately referred to as "my master." The claim that David is actually (or also) referring to Jesus by the phrase "my master" is not supported by the text.
The privilege of sitting at the right hand is a mark of distinction (1 Kings 2:19). When God invites David to "sit at My right hand," it is to show the privileged position enjoyed by David in his relationship with God. It is not to be taken as literally indicating sitting at God's right hand. The terminology "right hand" is here used as an expression of God's favoritism toward David.
Ok. I want to swing back to the fact that Jesus prayed to the Father. The fact that Jesus prayed does not pose any issues to the Oneness. It does however to the Trinity. As a man, Jesus prayed to God. You might like to say that he prayed to himself, so be it. All throughout the Gospel, we find that Jesus acted and talked like a real man, but at times, he also acted and talked as God. When Jesus prayed, he prayed as a man, but get this, Jesus also answered prayer! Joh_14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. When Jesus made this statement, he wasn't talking as a man, but as God.
The issues that the Trinity faces with Jesus praying, is that one prays because there is someone greater than him. If Jesus is not the Father, he un-deifies himself by praying. And then he is no longer God.
When you read of something Jesus says, ask yourself, is he talking as a man, or as Almighty God? This key will help you immensely.

Can you explain to me why Jesus claimed that he would raise himself from the dead, yet the apostle Paul said that God the Father raised him from the dead? (Gal_1:1)
Also, who was the father of the baby Jesus?

Thanks. Now if I was to have a look quickly at these verses, we find that it was God who raised Jesus from the dead. But then that makes Jesus lower than God. Also, it clashes with John 2:19, where Jesus claims that he will raise himself from the dead.

The dual personality of Jesus quickly explains it. In the above references, Jesus is being referred to as man. Whereas in John, Jesus was speaking as deity.

If the Trinity wishes to explain these verses, we quickly find that Jesus will no longer be deity, but rather becomes a 'lesser' god, if there is such a thing.

OK Galatians 1 :1 Paul, an apostle, ( not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and the Father, who raised him from the dead

KJV
Where does it say what you say ?
And as far as Paul saying, God rased him from the dead. so Jesus and the Farther ? yes they are one in the same ? see he said "and the Father" ? Jesus does only the will of the Father, nothing other.

Baby Jesus had a step father. but he Jesus Christ is the Son of God. and God as we all should know is "called the Father."

John 2:19 Jesus does the will of the Father in this ?

Jesus is not the Father he is the Son. do you know the story of the vineyard and what it means. it's in the OT as well. :blink:
I think what your lot are trying to do is support the tenants point of view, zero old mate. and not the Father who sent his only Son. now the good book says "his only Son" does it boy.
Them their creeps in the vineyard did not take kindly to his Son now did they boy. as they were doing there own thing ( as of men ?) not of God the Father at all. did they ? now did they ?
Zero i suppose you will say, theme's people in the vineyard is the people of god, you all.

-_-
You come across to me as if you are just trying to bastard who Jesus Christ really is.

Zero do you have any books on from the vampires point of view

HeRoseFromTheDead · Mar 7, 2012

I was hoping that Groundzero would get back with us and explain why he used an Islamic website to argue his point of view?

Is Jesus God?

Is Jesus God?

Yes

No

Disciple of Jesus Christ

Not Afraid To Stand

Not So Advanced Member

New Member

Not Afraid To Stand

Disciple of Jesus Christ

New Member

New Member

Not Afraid To Stand

New Member

Prayer Warrior

Not So Advanced Member

Disciple of Jesus Christ

Active Member

Disciple of Jesus Christ

Not So Advanced Member

Disciple of Jesus Christ

Active Member

New Member

Not So Advanced Member

Similar threads