Why is God So Mean?

THE Gypsy said:

However, that "word" that came from a "man" MUST be proofed against the Scriptures. How else could we recognise a false prophet or someone trying to lead us astray?

2 things:
-The word will definitely agree with scripture, and the Lord might confirm it through it. But the Spirit is the one doing the work, whether through the word or a brother.
-The principle laid out in the Bible in times of a meeting actually says that two or three prophets should speak and the others will judge.
[sup]1 Corinthians 14:29[/sup] Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.




"Power" comes through "knowledge".

Yes, but that is the knowledge of Christ (as said in the verse). And it is not on the level of human knowledge, but it is spiritual knowledge, given us by the God.


Sometimes I wish I had just shut up and let the conversation evolve.
I don't. You've contributed good points...

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Robbie said:

Nah Rach.. Ducky is saying that it's only possible to know God through paper and ink... I'm saying I know the Father because the living Christ lives in me and I hear Him and there's no way to Him other than through Jesus who is God's Word... she's rejecting that we can hear Him... she's calling His Holy Spirit just some, "unknown spirit" and says it's only possible to hear Jesus through reading a book... that's a division that isn't negotiable... because to agree with Ducky would be denying what Christ did for humanity on the cross... when Christ died on the cross the bible didn't fly out from behind the veil... the veil was torn in two... and we now have direct access to the Father through Christ... God's Word living in us... I understand the battle for this truth is going out in an army of 10,000 against an army of 20,000 but I will not seek conditions of peace... as the only way for peace with those who deny the truth of what Christ accomplished on the cross would be to deny Him the glory He deserves and to reject the salvation of a reestablished relationship through Him to the Father that He made possible.

I hope you understand...

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Prentis said:

Here's the problem with what you say Rach. We cannot rely on scriptures to guide us AT ALL. We must rely on the Spirit to guide us THROUGH scripture.

Scripture IS the the word of the Lord, but our interpretation of it ISNT.

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor. 2:14)

The Spirit interprets the Bible, not us. And he must be our teacher and our guide, while the Bible can be one of his tools to teach us.

It is not a 50/50

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THE Gypsy said:

Here... "ONLY" is a very strong word.

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Groundzero said:

Oh. What I was saying in that sentence was that in our age, there is one way ultimately that we can find out about the real Jesus: Scripture. We don't have any eyewitnesses alive, obviously, and the other records of Jesus . . . are either warped (the koran) or barely mention him. I definitely wasn't implying that we can only be saved by the Bible. I was stating that it's only through the Bible that we can find the real Jesus, because in today's age, it is the only way.

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Rach said:

I totally agree with you here. Not actually sure I said anything to the contrary...but if I did, it wasn't intended. Yes, I believe that the Spirit will and should guide us through the scriptures. So many of the problems we have today come from men's interpretation of scripture. Good point!

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Rach said:

Okay...first...Ducky is a she???

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Secondly, if that is indeed exactly what she is saying, well, I completely disagree with her. One of the huge points of the cross was to restore a relationship between God and man. As you say, that is possible now through Christ, through our intimate relationship of having the Holy Spirit within us.
If we were incapable of 'hearing' the Spirit, I do wonder how the Bible got written! And half the Bible stories are about Christians listening/following/being guided by the Spirit. So, yeah, would have to agree with you there...if that's what Ducky is saying....sometimes it's hard to be actually sure what's behind her point.

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Prentis said:

That is not true. Paul never saw Jesus before he died. And yet he saw Him. Jesus showed himself to him. We should not put off this possibility just because we haven't experienced it.

Christ has shown himself to Paul AFTER having gone to the Father. Stephen also SAW Jesus after he had gone to the Father. God is still revealing himself today! He is alive! The real Jesus is alive and if you seek Him, it is possible that he would let us see him. Otherwise, we can experience Him and know Him even without. We can have fellowship and intimacy with him.

The Bible can only give you head knowledge if the Spirit is not doing the work. We must know him intimately. Many knew and know about him, and yet the Lord says that to many of those he will say "I never knew you". We must know Him by the Spirit.

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Duckybill said:

Robbie is wrong.

Jesus also shed His Blood to give us the written New Covenant.

Matthew 26:28 (NKJV)
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

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Robbie said:

See Goundzero... this is where you're still carnal in your understanding and denying that Christ is living... and please don't take that as an insult.. but as an admonishing... if you believe that you can't see or hear Christ without a book... it's because you need Him in you... there's the admonishing in Revelation of the church that has a name like they're alive but they are dead... well since Christ is Life that could only be because the Living Word Jesus is not living in them...

The truth is there is only way we can really know the Father and that is through His Word Jesus Christ... and there is only one way to know Jesus Christ and that is for Him to live in us... if He's not in us we're not His... if He is in us the Father is also in Him... and we are One... so you are mistaken...

When someone pointed this out to me I thought they were the devil... so I understand your reaction as I had the same reaction... but I encourage you to examine yourself... I really am saying all this to you out of love... and I understand why you're reacting to me the way you are... as I reacted the same way when someone challenged my religion... and I didn't receive it right away either... I simply said, "Well if what you're saying is true I pray the Lord to open my eyes but if what you're saying is false I pray the Lord exposes your lies"

Trust me... once you can believe Christ is in you and you don't need the book... that's when the book becomes truly a tool... because as Christ didn't need the scriptures but spoke with authority... when He did use the scriptures He understood them with perfect understanding while the theology experts of that time rejected Him because He didn't agree with their religion.

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Prentis said:

Actually, Matthew 26:28 does not say WRITTEN New Covenant, just new covenant.

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Might I point to you that the new covenant is not of the letter, but of the Spirit.

[sup]2 Corinthians 3:4[/sup] And we have such trust through Christ toward God. [sup]5[/sup] Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, [sup]6[/sup] who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit;[sup][a][/sup] for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

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Groundzero said:

True. Something to note about when Jesus said, "I never knew you." was that they were doing it all in HIS name! I think we have to be careful, because those who were turned away were professing to know Jesus. They didn't have the right one. How do we know we have the right Jesus? Scripture.

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Prentis said:

In agreement with Robbie, and with much love to all

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Robbie said:

See Goundzero... this is where you're still carnal in your understanding and denying that Christ is living... and please don't take that as an insult.. but as an admonishing... if you believe that you can't see or hear Christ without a book... it's because you need Him in you... there's the admonishing in John's Revelation of Jesus of the church that has a name like they're alive but they are dead... well since Christ is Life that could only be because the Living Word Jesus is not living in them...

The truth is there is only way we can really know the Father and that is through His Word Jesus Christ... and there is only one way to know Jesus Christ and that is for Him to live in us... if He's not in us we're not His... if He is in us the Father is also in Him and in us... and we are One... so you are mistaken...

When someone pointed this out to me I thought they were the devil... so I understand your reaction as I had the same reaction... but I encourage you to examine yourself... I really am saying all this to you out of love... and I understand why you're reacting to me the way you are... as I reacted the same way when someone challenged my religion... and I didn't receive it right away either... I simply said, "Well if what you're saying is true I pray the Lord to open my eyes but if what you're saying is false I pray the Lord exposes your lies"

Trust me... once you can believe Christ is in you and you don't need the book... that's when the book becomes truly a tool... because as Christ didn't need the scriptures but spoke with authority... when He did use the scriptures He understood them with perfect understanding while the theology experts of that time rejected Him because He didn't agree with their religion.

and oops.. my bad... Ducky is not a girl... haha

and see rach... Ducky even thinks the blood of the New Covenant is the blood of paper and ink... once again giving the glory to a book...

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Duckybill said:

Robbie is wrong.

Jesus also shed His Blood to give us the written New Covenant.

Matthew 26:28 (NKJV)
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

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Rach said:

Okay...not a she...good to know!
I would say that Jesus shed His blood for the new covenant...the written version is just telling us about it. Which is precious and true, something that we need to know about and understand...but it is the action of substitution and the grace given after it that is what really saves.

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Duckybill said:

Then what do you call Matthew - Revelation?

See above.

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Rach said:

Okay...not a she...good to know!
I would say that Jesus shed His blood for the new covenant...the written version is just telling us about it. Which is precious and true, something that we need to know about and understand...but it is the action of substitution and the grace given after it that is what really saves.

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Duckybill said:

The "written version" isn't the New Covenant? Please clarify.

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THE Gypsy said:

Would you expound on this? The reason I ask is because of this ongoing discussion I've been having with a friend of mine. I've mentioned it here, in another thread, but it's along the lines of...Satan knows the Bible. (Otherwise he would not be able to twist it and use it against Believers) He also talks with God. His demons tremble with fear of the Lord. So how is "Scripture" proof of "right"?

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Prentis said:

Easy. It's the New Testament, which speaks of the new covenant, and it testifies of the life of God that is manifested in his son Jesus Christ. It testifies of Christ, and what happens when he lives in men, and men in him.

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Groundzero said:

Scripture is ONLY proof of right as long as the person believes it to be infallible and inspired by God. Otherwise it is spineless. If one believes the Scripture to be of God and infallible, what is stated as sin is sin, and what is stated as right is right, and so forth. It is proof of right because it contains what God thinks about something. Who says something is right or wrong? If we leave it up to the person, we have many different ideas. God is the one who says right or wrong, and he has it in the Bible. Therefore, the Scripture is proof of right. It contains what we can and can't, and it is ink, available to all, whereas the previous examples of visions are not available to all. Only some people get them.
When Satan tempted Jesus, he used Scripture, but note this, SOME Scripture and out-of-context. How did Jesus reply? 'Oh, I know that isn't right because I have God's spirit inside me directing me."? NO! He used Scripture! Scripture is a double-edged sword. It is a fearsome weapon when used effectively, but when used by someone who does not understand it, it is double-edged in a sense that it comes back at the one who used it.

I don't know whether this is the best way to explain it. I'm not the best at explaining. Probably has something to do with my lack of experience.

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Duckybill said:

So where is the New Covenant?

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