"If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

Titus said:

As Paul said the old law kept brings a curse on all who do not keep all of it,
Galatians 3:10.

You never heard such and idea from me. Where are you coming from?

That would be Jesus' new law we keep today, Galatians 6:2

Quote me where I said Christmas and Easter are in the commandments of the new testament covenant?

You're mistaken with the Lords day,
Acts 20:7
Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul ready to depart the next day, spoke to them continued his message until midnight.
Christ is to be worshiped on Sunday.

Click to expand...

Here is an article on "the Lord's Day” that you may enjoy reading.

The Lord's Day - Revelation 1:10 ... The First Day!

GEN2REV said:

I agree with all of this, but I will say that it's a scary thing that the Bible tells us that those who won't give up their favorite sins, will be given up to them by God eventually.

There is no telling how long that eventuality is, but it may have to do with how intensely given to those sins the person is. If somebody is a passionate Christian, but continues to commit the same sin over and over and over, God will let them have it and let them be completely overcome with it.

At that point, they are lost. There is nothing to suggest that the Holy Spirit will ever re-enter those who do this. It might even be the one sin that the Bible says is not forgiven, the sin against the Holy Spirit - that is to keep sinning until you literally evict the Spirit of God from your life.

Heartbreaking and terrifying, really.

Click to expand...

Well Romans 1:18-32 tells us: "For God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way, because what may be known about God is clearly evident among them, for God made it clear to them. For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable. For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their senseless hearts became darkened. Although claiming they were wise, they became foolish and turned the glory of the incorruptible God into something like the image of corruptible man and birds and four-footed creatures and reptiles. Therefore, God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, so that their bodies might be dishonored among them. They exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen. That is why God gave them over to disgraceful sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error. Just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting. And they were filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, and badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and malice, being whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, schemers of what is harmful, disobedient to parents, without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, and merciless. Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also approve of those practicing them.

[QUOTE="Happy Trails, post: 1289510, member:

If you can prove it is commanded that christians must keep the Jewish calendar as part of Jesus' gospel you have some credibility.
If you cannot show in the new testament of Jesus Christ that christians are not commanded as Gods law to keep the Jewish calendar you have no case.

Jesus was ressurected on the first day of the week,
John 20:1
Now on the first day if the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.
-9
For as yet they did not know the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead.

Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week.
That is significant for why the Lords supper is partaken on the first day of the week,
1Corinthians 11:26,
For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup you proclaim the Lords death till He comes.
-33-34
Therefore my brethren, when you come together to eat( the Lords supper) wait for one another.
But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

When the church came together to worship God on Sunday, they did not eat common meals. They only partook of the Lords supper when worshipping!

Acts 20:7
Now on the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread(Lords supper),
Paul, ready to depart the next day, preached to them and continued His gospel until midnight.

These are Christians!
Follows of Jesus Christ.
Jews kept the Sabbath.
Christians worship God, Jesus on the first day of the week. That day is Sunday.
Sunday is the Lords day.
Christian worship includes the fellowship of the Lords supper, singing hymns, prayer, preaching the gospel and giving to Lord what we have been prospered.
This is all done on the first day of the week.
1Corinthians 16:1-2,
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia so you must do.
On the first day of the week, let each of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

John knows what day is the Lords day.
It is not the Jewish Sabbath day.
Revelation 1:10,
I was in the Spirit on the Lords day and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet

Titus said:

[QUOTE="Happy Trails, post: 1289510, member:

If you can prove it is commanded that christians must keep the Jewish calendar as part of Jesus' gospel you have some credibility.
If you cannot show in the new testament of Jesus Christ that christians are not commanded as Gods law to keep the Jewish calendar you have no case.

Jesus was ressurected on the first day of the week,
John 20:1
Now on the first day if the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.
-9
For as yet they did not know the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead.

Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week.
That is significant for why the Lords supper is partaken on the first day of the week,
1Corinthians 11:26,
For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup you proclaim the Lords death till He comes.
-33-34
Therefore my brethren, when you come together to eat( the Lords supper) wait for one another.
But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

When the church came together to worship God on Sunday, they did not eat common meals. They only partook of the Lords supper when worshipping!

Acts 20:7
Now on the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread(Lords supper),
Paul, ready to depart the next day, preached to them and continued His gospel until midnight.

These are Christians!
Follows of Jesus Christ.
Jews kept the Sabbath.
Christians worship God, Jesus on the first day of the week. That day is Sunday.
Sunday is the Lords day.
Christian worship includes the fellowship of the Lords supper, singing hymns, prayer, preaching the gospel and giving to Lord what we have been prospered.
This is all done on the first day of the week.
1Corinthians 16:1-2,
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia so you must do.
On the first day of the week, let each of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

John knows what day is the Lords day.
It is not the Jewish Sabbath day.
Revelation 1:10,
I was in the Spirit on the Lords day and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet

Click to expand...

You continue to ignore this passage as if it doesn't exist.
Luke 23:54-56

Those are Christians obeying the Sabbath Commandment just hours after Christ's death on the Cross. If anybody would know to stop obeying the 10 Commandments, these people would have certainly known.

Yet, there it is.

Now, what are you gonna do about it?

You can't make it go away; you can keep ignoring it, but there it is right there - staring you right in the face.


Cease being mistaken or cease being honest!!

(Who are we kidding, you were never honest.)

GEN2REV said:

You continue to ignore this passage as if it doesn't exist.
Luke 23:54-56

Those are Christians obeying the Sabbath Commandment just hours after Christ's death on the Cross. If anybody would know to stop obeying the 10 Commandments, these people would have certainly known.

Yet, there it is.

Now, what are you gonna do about it?

You can't make it go away; you can keep ignoring it, but there it is right there - staring you right in the face.

Cease being mistaken or cease being honest!!

(Who are we kidding, you were never honest.)

Click to expand...

The passage gives me peace.

Jesus' gospel did not come into effect, ie in force until the testator died.
None of Jesus' disciplles were chtistians before Jesus' death nor immediately after His death.

It was not until Jesus ROSE FROM THE DEAD, that His new covenant, His gospel went into force.

Do you not know the gospel of Jesus Christ?

1Corinthians 15:1-4,
Moreover brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also you received and in which you stand.
By which you are saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you-- unless you believed in vain.

For I declared unto you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.

That He was buried, and that He rose again the thrid day according to the Scriptures.

Jesus' will was not to be obeyed until He died, was buried and rose from the dead.

How could those disciples believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ in Luke 23:54-56
WHEN JESUS HAD NOT RAISED FROM THE DEAD?

Do you not know that a will is not in effect until the death of the testator dies?
Are you also not aware that a will does not immediately come into force (probated)the moment the testator dies?
Hebrews 9:16-17,
For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

They were still jews at this time. Once they heard the gospel of Jesus Christ first preached to them by Peter in Acts chapter 2. Then when they believed and obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ they became Christians.

mailmandan said:

Here is an article on "the Lord's Day” that you may enjoy reading.

The Lord's Day - Revelation 1:10 ... The First Day!

Click to expand...

Thanks, Danthemailman

Titus said:

The passage gives me peace.

Jesus' gospel did not come into effect, ie in force until the testator died.
None of Jesus' disciplles were chtistians before Jesus' death nor immediately after His death.

It was not until Jesus ROSE FROM THE DEAD, that His new covenant, His gospel went into force.

Do you not know the gospel of Jesus Christ?

1Corinthians 15:1-4,
Moreover brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also you received and in which you stand.
By which you are saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you-- unless you believed in vain.

For I declared unto you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.

That He was buried, and that He rose again the thrid day according to the Scriptures.

Jesus' will was not to be obeyed until He died, was buried and rose from the dead.

How could those disciples believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ in Luke 23:54-56
WHEN JESUS HAD NOT RAISED FROM THE DEAD?

Do you not know that a will is not in effect until the death of the testator dies?
Are you also not aware that a will does not immediately come into force (probated)the moment the testator dies?
Hebrews 9:16-17,
For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

They were still jews at this time. Once they heard the gospel of Jesus Christ first preached to them by Peter in Acts chapter 2. Then when they believed and obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ they became Christians.

Click to expand...

Oh, good grief.

Naysayers: "The 10 Commandments were nailed to the Cross, they were nailed to the Cross, they were nailed to the Cross."

True Christians: "What about Luke 23:54-56?"

Naysayers: "Wellll, ... see, ... they weren't abolished until ... a bit after the Cross. Yeah, that's what happened."

True Christians: "Ok, so what about Paul keeping all the 10 Commandments many years after becoming a Christian in Acts 21:24?"

Naysayers: "?????"

GEN2REV said:

Oh, good grief.

Naysayers: "The 10 Commandments were nailed to the Cross, they were nailed to the Cross, they were nailed to the Cross."

True Christians: "What about Luke 23:54-56?"

Naysayers: "Wellll, ... see, ... they weren't abolished until ... a bit after the Cross. Yeah, that's what happened."

True Christians: "Ok, so what about Paul keeping all the 10 Commandments many years after becoming a Christian in Acts 21:24?"

Naysayers: "?????"

Click to expand...

Answer my question,
How can these disciples of Christ already be christians when they have no way of believing in Jesus' gospel?

To be saved in Jesus' gospel one must believe in the death, burial and ressurection of Jesus Christ, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.

No one before Jesus' ressurection could believe in Jesus' gospel because IT HAD NOT BEEN INACTED YET!

You are teaching folks were christians before they believed in the gospel, 1Corinthians 15:1-4!

GEN2REV said:

Oh, good grief.

Naysayers: "The 10 Commandments were nailed to the Cross, they were nailed to the Cross, they were nailed to the Cross."

True Christians: "What about Luke 23:54-56?"

Naysayers: "Wellll, ... see, ... they weren't abolished until ... a bit after the Cross. Yeah, that's what happened."

True Christians: "Ok, so what about Paul keeping all the 10 Commandments many years after becoming a Christian in Acts 21:24?"

Naysayers: "?????"

Click to expand...

As I already said,
You do not understand what was taking place in the book of Acts.

This is why Paul continued to keep Jewish customs in the book of Acts.
One simple reason, to reach the Jews. To win the jews to Christ.

The jews knew Who Paul was.
Paul was famous.
If Paul had not followed Jewish customs in Acts, when he was with the jews.
They would not have allowed him to teach the gospel to them in their synagogue.
Paul taught the Jews in the synagogue. You cannot enter a synagogue unless you follow Jewish customs.

Acts 17:1-2
Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the jews.
-Then Paul as his custom was, went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

Paul was no longer bound by Jewish law.
He only kept the customs so that he would have access into the synagogue to teach the Jews the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Paul said so himself!

Acts 16:3
Paul wanted to have him go on with him. And he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews in that region, for they all knew that his father was greek.

Paul only circumcised Timothy so that he could accompany Paul to go teach the Jews the gospel.
Timothy could have not gone with Paul if he had not been circumcised according to Jewish law.

Paul explains why he kept Jewish customs here,
1Corinthians 9:20-21,
And to the Jews I became as a jew, that I might win the jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law.
-to those who are without law, as without law, (not being without law toward God) but under law toward Christ that I might win those who are without law(gentiles).

Titus said:

[QUOTE="Happy Trails, post: 1289510, member:

If you can prove it is commanded that christians must keep the Jewish calendar as part of Jesus' gospel you have some credibility.
If you cannot show in the new testament of Jesus Christ that christians are not commanded as Gods law to keep the Jewish calendar you have no case.

Jesus was ressurected on the first day of the week,
John 20:1
Now on the first day if the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.
-9
For as yet they did not know the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead.

Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week.
That is significant for why the Lords supper is partaken on the first day of the week,
1Corinthians 11:26,
For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup you proclaim the Lords death till He comes.
-33-34
Therefore my brethren, when you come together to eat( the Lords supper) wait for one another.
But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

When the church came together to worship God on Sunday, they did not eat common meals. They only partook of the Lords supper when worshipping!

Acts 20:7
Now on the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread(Lords supper),
Paul, ready to depart the next day, preached to them and continued His gospel until midnight.

These are Christians!
Follows of Jesus Christ.
Jews kept the Sabbath.
Christians worship God, Jesus on the first day of the week. That day is Sunday.
Sunday is the Lords day.
Christian worship includes the fellowship of the Lords supper, singing hymns, prayer, preaching the gospel and giving to Lord what we have been prospered.
This is all done on the first day of the week.
1Corinthians 16:1-2,
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia so you must do.
On the first day of the week, let each of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

John knows what day is the Lords day.
It is not the Jewish Sabbath day.
Revelation 1:10,
I was in the Spirit on the Lords day and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet

Click to expand...

John 20:1 tells me that the women arrived at the tomb before sunup, and Jesus was already gone.

At any rate, there was NEVER an instruction to stop observing the Sabbath.

Titus said:

Answer my question,
How can these disciples of Christ already be christians when they have no way of believing in Jesus' gospel?

To be saved in Jesus' gospel one must believe in the death, burial and ressurection of Jesus Christ, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.

No one before Jesus' ressurection could believe in Jesus' gospel because IT HAD NOT BEEN INACTED YET!

You are teaching folks were christians before they believed in the gospel, 1Corinthians 15:1-4!

Click to expand...

Christians are followers of Christ. Those people followed Christ right to His Crucifixion, death and burial, which they took part in - preparing His body up to the time the Sabbath drew near and they had to stop.

Were the 10 Commandments nailed to the Cross, or abandoned after He was resurrected at a later time?

Be very careful, the Nailed to the Cross doctrine has been around for a long, long time. Sure you wanna create a whole new doctrine that you haven't fully vetted and thought through all the implications and dynamics of yet??

The Bible even fully supports the Law of Ordinances being nailed to the Cross. Colossians 2:14 You're gonna have a real hard time fabricating a new doctrine that doesn't have any real Scriptural support.

My philosophy on life...
Love God, love each other
Keep it simple, don't be stupid

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Ephesians 2:15 - Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

The natural reading of Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14 would see that the entire old covenant written code was nailed to the cross, including the Ten Commandments (with all the rules and regulations attached to them under the Mosaic Law) which were the center point of the old covenant. (Exodus 34:29-34) Since the old covenant of law was nailed to the cross, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. The old covenant was made obsolete to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) Love fulfills the law. (Romans 13:8-10) Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

*Although the moral principles of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

If the law of Moses bears the same relationship to believers today under the new covenant as it did to Israel under the old covenant, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today under the new covenant.

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns.." (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

Happy Trails said:

John 20:1 tells me that the women arrived at the tomb before sunup, and Jesus was already gone.

At any rate, there was NEVER an instruction to stop observing the Sabbath.

Click to expand...

The women and the men who were disciples of Jesus did not believe that Jesus had risen from the dead until Jesus appeared to them.

Even, then they were not Christians. They were still jews.
Jesus' gospel did not come into effect until the apostles were given the power of the Holy Spirit,
Acts 1:8,
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.
Acts 2:1-2:3
When the day of Penetcost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind and it filled the whole house where they were sitting
Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire and one sat upon each of them(apostles).

Now Peter for the first time in Jewish history is going to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to the jews,
Acts 2:30-31,
Therefore being a prophet and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up Christ to sit on his throne.
he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the ressurection of Christ, and His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption,

-32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
-33 therefore being exalted to the right hand of God and having recieved from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you see and hear,
-34 for David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand, -35 Til I make your enemies Your footstool.

-36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified both Lord and Messiah.

-37 Now when the Jews heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Do you see that these Jews were not yet Christians?
Verse 37 tells us they have believed the gospel Peter preached to them!
That gospel was that Jesus whom they crucified has risen from the dead!
That same Jesus is in fact their Messiah!

Now the gospel has been Preached to the Jews for the first time in Jewish history,
Peter teaches them that they must obey the gospel of Jesus Christ to become saved born again christians.

-38 Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Jews of Jerusalem and Judea had only been baptized into John's baptism Mark 1:4-5.
Now to become saved Christians they must repent and be baptized into Jesus' baptism.

Notice: these Jews had not received the gift of the Holy Spirit!
How could those in Luke 23:54-56, already be christians when they had not believed and obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ, nor did they have the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Jews were first called Christians in Antioch! Never back in the gospels of Mathhew, Mark, Luke and John!
Acts 11:26,
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

mailmandan said:

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Ephesians 2:15 - Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

The natural reading of Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14 would see that the entire old covenant written code was nailed to the cross, including the Ten Commandments (with all the rules and regulations attached to them under the Mosaic Law) which were the center point of the old covenant. (Exodus 34:29-34) Since the old covenant of law was nailed to the cross, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. The old covenant was made obsolete to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) Love fulfills the law. (Romans 13:8-10) Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

*Although the moral principles of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

If the law of Moses bears the same relationship to believers today under the new covenant as it did to Israel under the old covenant, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today under the new covenant.

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns.." (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

Click to expand...

You might've missed the point of what we were debating.

If everything in your post is true, then how do we have Luke 23:54-56 where Christ's disciples and followers observed the 4th Commandment Saturday Sabbath hours after His Crucifixion?

Titus' work-around was to claim that the Commandments weren't really nailed to the Cross, but abolished a bit later.

What is your work-around?

Titus said:

The women and the men who were disciples of Jesus did not believe that Jesus had risen from the dead until Jesus appeared to them.

Even, then they were not Christians. They were still jews.
Jesus' gospel did not come into effect until the apostles were given the power of the Holy Spirit,
Acts 1:8,
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.
Acts 2:1-2:3
When the day of Penetcost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind and it filled the whole house where they were sitting
Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire and one sat upon each of them(apostles).

Now Peter for the first time in Jewish history is going to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to the jews,
Acts 2:30-31,
Therefore being a prophet and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up Christ to sit on his throne.
he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the ressurection of Christ, and His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption,

-32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
-33 therefore being exalted to the right hand of God and having recieved from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you see and hear,
-34 for David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand, -35 Til I make your enemies Your footstool.

-36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified both Lord and Messiah.

-37 Now when the Jews heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Do you see that these Jews were not yet Christians?
Verse 37 tells us they have believed the gospel Peter preached to them!
That gospel was that Jesus whom they crucified has risen from the dead!
That same Jesus is in fact their Messiah!

Now the gospel has been Preached to the Jews for the first time in Jewish history,
Peter teaches them that they must obey the gospel of Jesus Christ to become saved born again christians.

-38 Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Jews of Jerusalem and Judea had only been baptized into John's baptism Mark 1:4-5.
Now to become saved Christians they must repent and be baptized into Jesus' baptism.

Notice: these Jews had not received the gift of the Holy Spirit!
How could those in Luke 23:54-56, already be christians when they had not believed and obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ, nor did they have the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Jews were first called Christians in Antioch! Never back in the gospels of Mathhew, Mark, Luke and John!
Acts 11:26,
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

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This is a moot point that you're trying so hard to create a doctrine out of.

The disciples of Jesus Christ that prepared His body for burial are the ones the Bible explicitly states observed the Sabbath the night of His Crucifixion.

These same people had walked with Jesus, following all of His Way, obeying all that He obeyed, which was the full 10 Commandments, and learning and performing all that He commanded.

All of this was exactly what those who were later coined Christians would do as well.

You just can't escape the Truth. Try as you may.

GEN2REV said:

You might've missed the point of what we were debating.

If everything in your post is true, then how do we have Luke 23:54-56 where Christ's disciples and followers observed the 4th Commandment Saturday Sabbath hours after His Crucifixion?

Titus' work-around was to claim that the Commandments weren't really nailed to the Cross, but abolished a bit later.

What is your work-around?

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Baloney!
Judaism was nailed to the cross!
But Jesus' new covenant did not become binding until Acts chapter 2.
There is a simple reason for this,
NO ONE HAD YET HEARD THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM BEFORE ACTS 2!

It would be unfair for God to hold the Jews under the new covenant, WHEN IT HAD NOT YET BEEN REVEALED!

Jesus new will and testament ie the gospel of Jesus Christ was first preached to the Jews in Acts chapter 2.
That is why no jew was under Christs new law immediately after His death.

Do you not know that when a testator has died His will does not immediately go into force?
Gen2Rev,
You are teaching that the Jews were being held accountable to Jesus' gospel before the gospel was ever preached!

Jesus' gospel was in force beginning at Acts chapter 2.

GEN2REV said:

This is a moot point that you're trying so hard to create a doctrine out of.

The disciples of Jesus Christ that prepared His body for burial are the ones the Bible explicitly states observed the Sabbath the night of His Crucifixion.

These same people had walked with Jesus, following all of His Way, obeying all that He obeyed, which was the full 10 Commandments, and learning and performing all that He commanded.

All of this was exactly what those who were later coined Christians would do as well.

You just can't escape the Truth. Try as you may.

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Answer my question.
How were the disciples of Jesus in Luke 23:54-56 already Christians?
How?
They had not believed in the gospel, 1Corinthians 15:1-4!
They could not believe in Jesus' ressurection.
They only believed in Jesus' ressurection when He physically appeared to them.
Even then the gospel was not in force until it was first preached to the Jews in Acts 2.

Jesus' new will and testament was not in force in Luke 23:54-56.
At that time the old covenant law, was still in force.
It ended at Acts chapter 2.

mailmandan said:

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Ephesians 2:15 - Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

The natural reading of Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14 would see that the entire old covenant written code was nailed to the cross, including the Ten Commandments (with all the rules and regulations attached to them under the Mosaic Law) which were the center point of the old covenant. (Exodus 34:29-34) Since the old covenant of law was nailed to the cross, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. The old covenant was made obsolete to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) Love fulfills the law. (Romans 13:8-10) Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

*Although the moral principles of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

If the law of Moses bears the same relationship to believers today under the new covenant as it did to Israel under the old covenant, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today under the new covenant.

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns.." (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

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Excellent brother !

Titus said:

Gen2Rev,
You are teaching that the Jews were being held accountable to Jesus' gospel before the gospel was ever preached!

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No, I'm merely shining the spotlight on a passage of Scripture that exists that you're trying desperately to make go away.

You're kicking against the goads.

You can't make Scripture say what you want it to say. It says what it says.

Jesus' disciples obeyed the Sabbath in the New Testament; ... after He was already Crucified on the Cross.

It is what it is.