Walking in love?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
2,047
92
0
31
Montreal, Qc
Seems like you just hit the nail on the head. :)
Actually that's what he thinks I was saying. Here's my reply ;)

I didn't disagree with that. Truth is indeed what God says. Only it IS contradictory.

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Direct contradiction, right there.

Which one do you follow, if you want to follow the Bible?

You wont know which one unless the Spirit is leading you.

So which one would you follow?
 

Groundzero

Not Afraid To Stand
Jul 20, 2011
819
35
0
29
Australia
I didn't disagree with that. Truth is indeed what God says. Only it IS contradictory.

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Direct contradiction, right there.

Which one do you follow, if you want to follow the Bible?

You wont know which one unless the Spirit is leading you.


Hmmm. Interesting case.

Taken from Gill's commentary on the Bible


"Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly,.... The Targum is,

"but speak with a fool in thy wisdom;''

and the Syriac version,

"yea, speak with a fool according to thy wisdom;''

which would at once remove the seeming contradiction in these words to the former, but then they are not a true version; indeed it is right, and must be the sense, that when a fool is answered, as it is sometimes necessary he should, that it be done in wisdom, and so as to expose his folly; he is to be answered and not answered according to different times, places, and circumstances, and manner of answering; he is to be answered when there is any hope of doing him good, or of doing good to others; or of preventing ill impressions being made upon others by what he has said; when the glory of God, the good of the church, and the cause of truth, require it; and when he would otherwise glory and triumph, as if his words or works were unanswerable, as follow;

lest he be wise in his own conceit; which fools are apt to be, and the rather when no answer is given them; imagining it arises from the strength of their arguments, and their nervous way of reasoning, when it is rather from a neglect and contempt of them."
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
3,416
44
0
I didn't disagree with that. Truth is indeed what God says. Only it IS contradictory.

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Direct contradiction, right there.

Which one do you follow, if you want to follow the Bible?

You wont know which one unless the Spirit is leading you.
Perhaps the problem is that you are not led by the Spirit and therefore do not understand.
 

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
2,047
92
0
31
Montreal, Qc
If that one won't do... Here's another one.

"Judge no man" says Jesus.
"A spiritual man judges all things" says Paul.

I'm out for the night, but I'll be back in the morning :)

Blessings to all
 

THE Gypsy

New Member
Jul 27, 2011
732
31
0
Earth
I didn't disagree with that. Truth is indeed what God says. Only it IS contradictory.

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Direct contradiction, right there.

Which one do you follow, if you want to follow the Bible?

You wont know which one unless the Spirit is leading you.


Not really a "contradiction", here. More of insight into the mind of a fool. I did a study on this and here is the conclusion I reached...

The actual point of verses 4 & 5 is that you can't reason with a fool. To even try, you'd have to reason with him on his own level and that, in and of itself, would make you a fool. And...If you don't sink to his level, he will think he is as smart as you, therefore it is a no win situation.


Just food for thought.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Groundzero

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
2,047
92
0
31
Montreal, Qc
Perhaps the problem is that you are not led by the Spirit and therefore do not understand.

Well, according to you, I don't need to be led of the Spirit, do I?

Which means my opinion would be as good as yours... See where I'm going.

Without the Spirit, we cannot know the truth.
 

THE Gypsy

New Member
Jul 27, 2011
732
31
0
Earth
Post # 32


Thanks.

Yes. Truth is a paradox. There is always tension.

Thus the Calvinist and the Arminian can argue forever quoting scripture and never come to agree.

That is what happens with human understanding.

On the other hand, when the Spirit opens our eyes, everything works together perfectly. The tension is still real, but we see how they come together to be the truth.


He said no such thing. He said people "have many contradictions"

Actually that's what he thinks I was saying. Here's my reply ;)

I was the one that said "relative truth". Since you mentioned the fact that people "can argue forever quoting scripture and never come to agree". THAT would be a "relative truth". They draw on their life experience, cultural influences, etc. and reach an opinion that is relative to their life. Unlike God, which is "absolute truth".


So which one would you follow?

It isn't an "either" "or". See post # 46.
 

Groundzero

Not Afraid To Stand
Jul 20, 2011
819
35
0
29
Australia
Not really a "contradiction", here. More of insight into the mind of a fool. I did a study on this and here is the conclusion I reached...

The actual point of verses 4 & 5 is that you can't reason with a fool. To even try, you'd have to reason with him on his own level and that, in and of itself, would make you a fool. And...If you don't sink to his level, he will think he is as smart as you, therefore it is a no win situation.


Just food for thought.

That's a great explanation! Makes sense too!

If that one won't do... Here's another one.

"Judge no man" says Jesus.
"A spiritual man judges all things" says Paul.

I'm out for the night, but I'll be back in the morning :)

Blessings to all

Umm, I'll need the references. Just from face value, I'd say that Jesus was referring to the golden rule. Do unto others as you would them do to you. Paul was saying that one who is spiritual will line up all things and test them to see if they are correct. No contradictions.

Gnite :)

I gotta go too. Training for the finals this sat! :)
 

Robbie

New Member
Jan 4, 2011
1,125
59
0
Huntington Beeach
How about Jesus direct contradiction to what was written in scripture several times, "You've heard it said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth but I say to you love your enemies, do good to those that hate you, pray for those who spitefully use you"

How about when Solomon says that the wicked and the righteous both will come to the same end and they will never again have a part under the Sun?... but thanks to Christ many who died did have part again under the sun... even many saints after He died on the cross came out of the graves and were seen by many walking around.

Why is this? Because Christ makes everything new... Christ establishes a new covenant... and if it wasn't different than the old it wouldn't be new... and if it is new chances are it will contradict the old.

I mean in the old people only knew God from behind a veil... in the new people know God directly because the veil is torn in two.

In the old people new God through the law and the prophets... in the last days God has spoken to us by His Son...

In the old Elijah called fire down from heaven... in the new the disciples were rebuked for wanting to call fire down from heaven because they didn't know what manner of Spirit they were of... for the Son didn't come to destroy mens lives but to save them...

In the old men were told to listen to Moses and Elijah and in the new they were told not to listen to Moses or Elijah but only to listen to His Son...

And why wouldn't things contradict each other... I mean according to the old I was cursed to death... and under the New the curse is lifted and I have a reestablished relationship with the Father through Jesus... I mean everything is a contradiction really... since one kills and the other gives life...

So I have no problem with any of these things that are in contradiction with each other because I know it's doesn't mean the New or the Old is wrong... it just means that in the New all things are made New because because Christ changed everything on the cross... and now the old is passed away.. to those who believe...
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
3,416
44
0
Well, according to you, I don't need to be led of the Spirit, do I?

Which means my opinion would be as good as yours... See where I'm going.

Without the Spirit, we cannot know the truth.
The Holy Spirit will ALWAYS lead us to the written Word of God. So yes, we do need Him.

How about Jesus direct contradiction to what was written in scripture several times, "You've heard it said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth but I say to you love your enemies, do good to those that hate you, pray for those who spitefully use you"

How about when Solomon says that the wicked and the righteous both will come to the same end and they will never again have a part under the Sun?... but thanks to Christ many who died did have part again under the sun... even many saints after He died on the cross came out of the graves and were seen by many walking around.

Why is this? Because Christ makes everything new... Christ establishes a new covenant... and if it wasn't different than the old it wouldn't be new... and if it is new chances are it will contradict the old.

I mean in the old people only knew God from behind a veil... in the new people know God directly because the veil is torn in two.

In the old people new God through the law and the prophets... in the last days God has spoken to us by His Son...

In the old Elijah called fire down from heaven... in the new the disciples were rebuked for wanting to call fire down from heaven because they didn't know what manner of Spirit they were of... for the Son didn't come to destroy mens lives but to save them...

In the old men were told to listen to Moses and Elijah and in the new they were told not to listen to Moses or Elijah but only to listen to His Son...

And why wouldn't things contradict each other... I mean according to the old I was cursed to death... and under the New the curse is lifted and I have a reestablished relationship with the Father through Jesus... I mean everything is a contradiction really... since one kills and the other gives life...

So I have no problem with any of these things that are in contradiction with each other because I know it's doesn't mean the New or the Old is wrong... it just means that in the New all things are made New because because Christ changed everything on the cross... and now the old is passed away.. to those who believe...
The problem isn't with the Scriptures. Look in your mirror. You'll find the problem.

Mark 4:14-15 (NKJV)
14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.
 

Robbie

New Member
Jan 4, 2011
1,125
59
0
Huntington Beeach
What do you mean Ducky? I'm believing what Jesus did... I'm believing He tore the veil in two so I now have direct access to the Father through His Spirit... I'm believing He made everything New... I'm believing He's in me... that God's Word is in me... I'm believing in Him...

You're the weed that's trying to take away what's planted in my heart... denying what the Lord has done for me on the cross... denying that we can now know Him directly saying the only way to God is through a book still... so it's you and groundzeros carnal falsehoods that I reject...

I'm not rejecting Jesus or anything about Him... I'm rejecting you because you reject Him... because you don't make Jesus the foundation you build on... you make the understanding of man's religion your foundation... which is why you can't receive the things of the Spirit... because you are carnal...

You need to repent... and consider all your dead religion loss... and eat the true bread from heaven fresh each day... which is Christ... God's Word in you...

Until you have that you're just a white washed tomb...
 

THE Gypsy

New Member
Jul 27, 2011
732
31
0
Earth
The Holy Spirit will ALWAYS lead us to the written Word of God. So yes, we do need Him.


Not "always". There are times, when necessary, the Spirit will speak directly to the situation. Let me give you an example...

Years ago I smoked. I was a Believer then and I thoroughly enjoyed smoking. I lived out in the country with lots of hills, wooded area, creek, etc. One day I had gone for a hike. I stopped to take a break and leaned up against a tree. I felt the overwhelming presence of God and had a vision of an Angel between me and the tree with his wings wrapped around me. I just stood there basking in the holy comfort. After quite some time, I pulled my cigarettes out of my pocket and lit one up. As soon as I did, I saw the wings unwrap me and heard a voice "I cannot protect you from this".

The meaning was obvious to me...Almost a "DUH!"...However I was not "lead to the written word of God".

Don't take that the wrong way. I believe a steady diet of the Scriptures is necessary to maintain spiritual health. And depending what you're into...sometimes you need more than others...Kinda like a person that's weight training needs more protein than a couch potato.

However...As I have said before...The Bible does not contain God. He is bigger than that and is more than capable of moving in His mysterious ways to deal with us directly.

As a footnote: I also do not believe it is a regular occurrence, however, the possibility should never be ruled out.
 

Robbie

New Member
Jan 4, 2011
1,125
59
0
Huntington Beeach
Ducky... I walk by the New... the Old is dead... if I was born before Christ I might still apply the Old to me but probably not since I'm a gentile... but either way when Christ came He made everything New now... and when the New comes... the Old passes away... you have no comprehension of this because Christ isn't your foundation... the bible is.. which is a mixture of testimonies to both Old and New... and because you build a tabernacle to Moses, Elijah and Jesus putting them all on the same level you are confused and still see God through a veil... because in Christ alone the veil is lifted as well as the curse... He's His beloved Son... hear Him... there's no way to the Father but by Him...

So stop denying to me that Christ made everything New... or the Lord rebuke you...

Like I said... for your own good... stop...
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
3,416
44
0
Ducky... I walk by New... the Old is dead... if I was born before Christ I'd still apply the Old to me but probably not since I'm a gentile... but either way when Christ came He made everything New... and when the New comes... the Old passes away... you have no comprehension of this because Christ isn't your foundation... the bible is.. which is a mixture of testimonies to both Old and New... and because you build a tabernacle to Moses, Elijah and Jesus putting them all on the same level you are confused and still see God through a veil... because in Christ alone the veil is lifted as well as the curse...

So stop denying to me that Christ made everything New... or the Lord rebuke you...

Like I said... for your own good... stop...
If you were led by the Spirit you wouldn't be charging God with contradicting Himself. I'll stick with the Jesus of the Bible. You follow your unknown spirit. We'll see who gets there. My Jesus is the Jesus of the Bible. He doesn't contradict Himself. Never.
 

Robbie

New Member
Jan 4, 2011
1,125
59
0
Huntington Beeach
You are mistaken... no one here said God contradicts Himself... the contradiction is that under the Old we were condemned to death due to separation from the Father... under the New we are reconnected to Life through a reestablished relationship with the Father...

Under the Old we are cursed... under the New the curse is lifted...

Under the Old we knew God through a veil... under the New the veil is gone...

One is Old and the Other New....

So yes... the state of man without Christ and the state of man with Christ are contradicting places to be...

One is life and the other death... choose LIFE
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
3,416
44
0
You are mistaken... no one here said God contradicts Himself... the contradiction is that under the Old we were condemned to death due to separation from the Father... under the New we are reconnected to Life through a reestablished relationship with the Father...

Under the Old we are cursed... under the New the curse is lifted...

Under the Old we knew God through a veil... under the New the veil is gone...

One is Old and the Other New....

So yes... the state of man without Christ and the state of man with Christ are contradicting places to be...

One is life and the other death... choose LIFE
Charging the Bible with errors is the same as charging God with errors.
 

Robbie

New Member
Jan 4, 2011
1,125
59
0
Huntington Beeach
God isn't a book... and who charged it with errors? Point out where I said it was full of errors? I said it contradicts itself... and yes it does... the same way life without Christ contradicts life with Christ... the same way being cursed contradicts not being cursed... the same way an eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth contradicts loving your enemies...

You seriously seem like you deny that Christ changed anything on the cross...

What's different now Ducky? Did the book you know God through just get bigger? Is that all Christ did? Did more chapters just get added to the bible?

Whether you realize it or not you deny what the Lord changed on the cross... He changed everything... I mean is there any greater change than that from dieing to living forever?

Do you understand that Christ brought life.. and life is a direct contradiction to death?

The bible has the old which has the law and the curse that condemned all to death... and the new has Jesus which lifted the curse and has given those who receive Him eternal life...

Those are two opposing/contradicting stated for humanity to be in... and that's why there's contradictions in the bible...

But because Christ isn't your foundation you can't hear or see why what is... Is...
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
3,416
44
0
God isn't a book... and who charged it with errors?
You did.
Point out where I said it was full of errors?
Are you denying that you said the Bible has many contradictions?
I said it contradicts itself... and yes it does... the same way life without Christ contradicts life with Christ... the same way being cursed contradicts not being cursed...
I'll believe the Bible, God's Word.
You seriously seem like you deny that Christ changed anything on the cross...
Seem? Jesus died on the cross to atone for the sins of all who repent and follow Him. His Blood washes away all the sins of those who repent and believe in Him.
What's different now Ducky? Did the book you know God through just get bigger? Is that all Christ did? Did more chapters just get added to the bible?
He gave us a New Covenant to live by, the NT.
Whether you realize it or not you deny what the Lord changed on the cross... He changed everything... I mean is there any greater change than that from dieing to living forever?
See above.
Do you understand that Christ brought life.. and life is a direct contradiction to death?

The bible has the old which has the law and the curse that condemned all to death... and the new has Jesus which lifted the curse and has given those who receive Him eternal life...

Those are two opposing/contradicting stated for humanity to be in... and that's why there's contradictions in the bible...

But because Christ isn't your foundation you can't hear or see why what is... is...
Salvation is ONLY through Jesus. See, you're blatantly wrong.