The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

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Zao is life

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You claim the verses below are not literal, but just (Apocalyptic Metaphor) how can your eschatology be take seriously

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)


2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance
on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
This thread is not about how God is going to bring an end to the current order but about whether or not the thousand years mentioned in the Revelation will follow it.

I don't particularly look forward to the Day of the LORD, but I do look forward to what will follow it. I've provided ample proof that the New Testament never uses the word zao (used in Revelation 20:4) in reference to people who are not alive in their bodies, and I've provided ample proof that the word anastasis used in reference to those who are zao after their beheading, is always and only used in reference to the bodily Resurrection in the New Testament.

The thousand years in Revelation 20 is said in that context.

I could also provide ample scriptural quotes that teach us that Satan, though utterly defeated at Calvary, is no more bound (yet) than he is thrown into the lake of fire yet.

@ewq1938 has also provided ample proof that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is literal.

The proof is flatly ignored by those who must interpret Peter's thousand years and Revelation's thousand years metaphorically or symbolically, i.e for the sake of Amillennialism.

PS: How much exactly does any of this matter to us now? Will it matter to us in the New Heavens and New Earth?
 

Truth7t7

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This thread is not about how God is going to bring an end to the current order but about whether or not the thousand years mentioned in the Revelation will follow it.

I don't particularly look forward to the Day of the LORD, but I do look forward to what will follow it. I've provided ample proof that the New Testament never uses the word zao (used in Revelation 20:4) in reference to people who are not alive in their bodies, and I've provided ample proof that the word anastasis used in reference to those who are zao after their beheading, is always and only used in reference to the bodily Resurrection in the New Testament.

The thousand years in Revelation 20 is said in that context.

I could also provide ample scriptural quotes that teach us that Satan, though utterly defeated at Calvary, is no more bound (yet) than he is thrown into the lake of fire yet.

@ewq1938 has also provided ample proof that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is literal.

The proof is flatly ignored by those who must interpret Peter's thousand years and Revelation's thousand years metaphorically or symbolically, i.e for the sake of Amillennialism.

PS: How much exactly does any of this matter to us now? Will it matter to us in the New Heavens and New Earth?
Pretty hard to have a Millennial Kingdom for 1,000 years on this earth after the return of Jesus, when this earth is dissolved by the Lord's fire in judgement at his return, as you have been shown several times

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire (The End)
 
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Truth7t7

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This thread is not about how God is going to bring an end to the current order but about whether or not the thousand years mentioned in the Revelation will follow it.

I don't particularly look forward to the Day of the LORD, but I do look forward to what will follow it. I've provided ample proof that the New Testament never uses the word zao (used in Revelation 20:4) in reference to people who are not alive in their bodies, and I've provided ample proof that the word anastasis used in reference to those who are zao after their beheading, is always and only used in reference to the bodily Resurrection in the New Testament.

The thousand years in Revelation 20 is said in that context.

I could also provide ample scriptural quotes that teach us that Satan, though utterly defeated at Calvary, is no more bound (yet) than he is thrown into the lake of fire yet.

@ewq1938 has also provided ample proof that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is literal.

The proof is flatly ignored by those who must interpret Peter's thousand years and Revelation's thousand years metaphorically or symbolically, i.e for the sake of Amillennialism.

PS: How much exactly does any of this matter to us now? Will it matter to us in the New Heavens and New Earth?
Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations
which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
 

Davy

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Jesus presented himself to his disciples and over 500 after his resurrection, his body was tangible flesh and bone that ate physical food, entered a room with doors closed, and vanished out of sight

No place in scripture does it teach that this physical tangible body changed before, during, or after the ascension

All believers will receive this very same "spiritual body" of flesh and bone at their resurrection, it's that simple

So what about 1 Corinthians 15:44-47???
 

Timtofly

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Jesus Himself said it plainly in
Luke.17[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

But, if that is not enough convincing for you, then just back up to verse 26, and you will get it correct for sure.
[26] And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[27] They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Here is a math quiz:
You can use any number(????) you like, that is greater than eight. 1 Peter 3:20

???? minus eight = ___________ .

Did you happen to notice that for whatever number one fills in the blank with, that is greater than eight, the answer is always the same: "destroyed them all".

As for any that some might think shall "escape" by their own righteousness by deeds, Jesus rhetorically said this:
Luke.18[8] I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

See also
1Thes.5[3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Can you not get the point Lot had sons by his own daughters? Would you identify yourself as a Moabite or an Ammonite?
 

Timtofly

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What in the world are you talking about? Once the unsaved are cast into the lake of fire, the saved will then be on the new earth. Those are the only two groups there will be at that point.
No, those living on the earth in the camp of the saints for 1,000 years keep living on the earth. Those living in Paradise during that time will continue living in the New Jerusalem.

The majority of the church is not even currently living on the earth. The church currently resides in Paradise sitting with Jesus. Do you distinguish a church on earth separate from a church on earth, that will never be joined together at the Second Coming?

Where does it ever claim the camp of the saints is ever part of the church in Paradise? The camp of the saints experienced a resurrection from being physically dead. Is having one's head cut off literal or figurative. What spiritual point is meant with one's physical head being cut off? This camp of the saints is on the earth, because there is a group marching across earth and surrounding this camp.

How do you explain this third group called the camp of the saints that were physically resurrected at the start of this 1,000 years. Is this a spiritual grave yard and not physical humans in this camp of the saints? Even this group marching against the camp of the saints just prior to Satan being loosed had no interest in attacking their fellow citizens while they were physically alive in this camp of the saints.

In fact these people were direct descendants of this camp of the saints. These people were the offspring. They did not just happen to appear one day. The camp of the saints were the only people on earth at the start of this 1,000 years. No one would exist unless they were offspring. All on earth were a third group. The dead were dead for 1,000 years. The church was in Paradise for 1,000 years. Those starting out in verses 4 and 5 is the camp of the saints. They have offspring for 1,000 years, which spread out all over the earth for 1,000 years. That is the whole context of Revelation 20. And you complain because I do not understand context. Should we listen to Amil who have totally re-written the whole chapter in their own image/imagination?

Having offspring is what happens on earth naturally and with common sense interpretation. You cannot have humans marching across the earth without many humans being born and having offspring for 1,000 years. Since when has there been a single location camp of the saints where no one has ever died during the last 1992 years? You claim this is just the church, but this cannot be the church. The church has no central location called the camp of the saints. The church is local believers all over the earth. The "government" does not round up all the church and place them into a concentration camp of the saints. Whose scenario fits best in Revelation 20? A contrived amil rendition of history or a natural human condition yet to happen?

The whole point of Satan being loosed is to gather protesters. No one was protesting during the 1,000 years. The iron rod rule would not allow protest, as that would be construed as rebellion against an iron rod rule. A rule that crushes dissent like pottery being crushed. Explain to me how the iron rod rule has crushed all opposition to the church in the last 1992 years. Explain to me how no one has immediately been killed for disobedience in the last 1992 years. Sin has ruled on earth in your iron rod rule of Christ, so this iron rod rule has failed, because the enemies of God have flourished during the fulness of the Gentiles. So the fulness of the Gentiles could never be the iron rod rule of Jesus the Prince where sin and Satan literally have no power or influence at all.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Wrong again. This is a valid contradiction related to the one before it. Just read the one before it and you will understand how this is also a problem for Amillennialism.
Was it too much trouble for you to just quote the one before it, so that we don't have to search for it? None of your supposed contradictions are valid. This thread is a joke.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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That's wrong. When a dead person becomes ZAO, a resurrection/anazao took place.
You missed the point. Do you even make any effort at all to understand what others are saying? What I'm saying is that word is not used to refer to the act of being resurrected itself. But the word anazao is. So, why wasn't the word anazao used in Revelation 20:4 like it was in verse 5 to describe the rest of the dead living again?

Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live (zao) .

Here is the same word. Anytime someone who is dead is said to "live" (zao) it's a reference to physical resurrection.
That's saying the person will be alive. It's not saying "and she shall be resurrected". The word zao does not mean to be resurrected. It means to live or to be alive. When a resurrection itself is referred to, a different word like anazao would be used. That's what you're not getting.

You are clearly not experienced enough to speak on this issue. You need to read more and post less so you can learn what is correct and stop speaking in error after error.
LOL. This is rich coming from you, a person who repeatedly misunderstands what people are telling him. You misunderstand what people are telling you just like you misunderstand scripture.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Yet Revelation 20 says there is a thousand years before the rest of the dead live again so its not "around the same time". All passages on the two resurrections do present two resurrections but only the passage in Revelation 20 tells us how much time is inbetween.
Jesus said one time is coming when all of the dead will be raised, not two. You are choosing to twist John 5:28-29 to fit your view of Revelation 20 instead of allowing the very straightforward text of John 5:28-29 to aid your understanding of Revelation 20.
 
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Truth7t7

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Jesus said one time is coming when all of the dead will be raised, not two. You are choosing to twist John 5:28-29 to fit your view of John 5:28-29 instead of allowing the very straightforward text of John 5:28-29 to aid your understanding of Revelation 20.
That's correct, there is one future tome that all the dead will be resurrected, there are two groups on this last day resurrection, 1. saved righteous, 2. unsaved wicked
 
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Timtofly

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Anyone who never acknowledges Jesus as King will be condemned on the day He returns, as portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46.
Matthew 25 only deals with humans alive on earth at the time Jesus is sitting on His throne in Jerusalem. Why are there souls in sheol? Is that not already the judgment of those who never acknowledged Jesus as King?

You make no sense that the church currently in Paradise has to wait until the Second Coming to even enjoy Paradise. You claim you do not accept soul sleep, but you literally make souls wait in limbo until the Second Coming. You make them wait until the Second Coming to actually figure out if they are these sheep and goats? You do not take anything literally here: not Jesus, the angels, a literal throne, nor humans literally still alive at the Second Coming.

Matthew 25:31 is not even about the physical dead in sheol or in Paradise. So it can only be about a specific group alive on earth at the Second Coming. Is this throne symbolic of the rapture? How are the goats raptured to stand judgment in Paradise?

Either these are literal humans on earth being judged by the iron rod rule of Jesus the Prince, or you agree Salvation is by human works: "as ye have done it unto the least of these ye have done it unto me". You are literally basing Salvation on works, and not because of the Atonement of the Cross.

The judgment seat of Christ is only for the redeemed not the lost. There the redeemed will recieve their reward. Matthew 25 is not the judgment seat of Christ for the redeemed.

Matthew 25 is literally about Jesus as Prince on the earth, on a throne, in Jerusalem. The Second Coming brought Jesus to the Mount of Olives. Jesus will set up His throne. The earth will not be burned up, just man's works. The sheep and goats will be gathered out of all nations. There will be humans still on earth after the sheep and goats are gone. Matthew 25 is not for everyone. It is not for the church in Paradise. It is not for those who later follow Satan and receive the mark. It is only for those humans that are sheep and those who are goats. Those humans will no longer exist on earth as the angels removed their souls from Adam's flesh and blood. The sheep will return at the start of the Millennium and rule on earth with Christ during the 1,000 years, they are not the church. The goats will wait in the LOF.

Matthew 25 is not the GWT. It is not about physically dead people. They are pronounced sheep, after their souls are removed. They were neither sheep nor goats prior to this judgment. That is only symbolism. Being a sheep or goat is their eternal status, not their status on earth before they stood before Jesus in Jerusalem.

Sitting on the throne is literal. Jesus as Prince is literal. The angels are literal. The determination of Jesus was a figurative pronouncement of God's perspective in God's elected choice of who is a sheep or a goat. Neither made a conscious decision of their eternal status. These people are whom Calvinist would define as elect. Prior to the Second Coming, they had no clue their life would end up one way or the other. How do I know that? Because they had to ask why Jesus chose them or rejected them.

To become a Christian you do not one day stand before God and ask, "Why am I a Christian?". Not to mention that at the Second Coming the church, Christians, are actively expecting a return, not waiting until God decides if they are the church. This separation of sheep and goats is limited to humans still alive on earth after the Second Coming.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

This happens after the Second Coming. There are still humans alive on earth. The Son is literally Jesus as Prince. The angels are literally angels. The throne is literally the throne in Jerusalem. The humans involved are literally physically alive. Their eternal status is literal. They are not the church, because the church met the Son in the air, before the Son sat on the throne. Salvation is a literal choice to accept God by faith, and once Jesus sits on the throne it is no longer by faith. It is literally rejecting God in person to the face of the one sitting on the GWT.

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

The sheep and goats appear before the Lamb sitting on the throne in Jerusalem. At the same time the GWT is seen on earth. Salvation by faith is no longer available. All, after the Second Coming, on earth can see the GWT. This earth will be totally changed by fire at the Second Coming. No one will have an excuse. Not even the deceived. People will not last 7 years, and not even 3.5 years under the Trumpets and Thunders. That is why this time will be cut short. But all of Adam's flesh and blood will die physically by the time the 7th Trumpet stops sounding.

The dead will remain dead and stand as dead before the GWT after creation no longer exists. The sheep will rule and reign on earth, and then keep living on the new earth.
 

Timtofly

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The new heaven and earth is very tangible, your claims regarding my belief are "False"

The New Heaven and Earth will have rivers, fish, fishermen, nets Ezekiel 47:1-12 houses built, vineyards planted, animals living in harmony, a return to the garden of eden Isaiah 65:17-25

Those outside the gates are the wicked in the Lake of fire, that will be present in the new heaven and earth Isaiah 66:24
Isaiah 65 has death. The Millennium is Isaiah 65. It has all those nice things you describe.

Explain to me how Revelation 20 is not physical. If you claim it as the here and now that is physical, no? You are being hypocritical if Revelation 20 is physical because it is now, and not physical after the Second Coming.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Those are good points. Like I said, I have no sealed view on 2 Peter 3.
You should be an agnosmillennialist like you were before until you get 2 Peter 3 figured out, in my opinion. I don't see any possible way that 2 Peter 3 can be reconciled with Premillennialism.

Like this: Revelation 20:7-9.

These, once again, are the reasons why the thousand years can only be literal:

1. Wtihout exception the word anastasis (resurrection) appearing in verses 5 & 6 is only used in reference to the bodily rising again from the dead.
Without exception the Greek words translated as "first resurrection" are only used to describe Christ's resurrection. Sure, it's only used in one other verse (Acts 26:23), but it's still true.

2. Without exception the word zao in verse 4 is only used in reference to living people who are alive in their bodies *
That doesn't mean it can only be used that way. Those who are physically dead are still zao spiritually.

* The Revelation makes sure we understand that it's the first Resurrection, so that we know for sure it's the bodily Resurrection of those who are zao after being beheaded:
That's only your opinion, so you should not act like you're proving anything here. The word zao is used to refer to people being alive. Are those who are physically dead but their souls are in heaven not alive? Of course they are.

I'll continue with my repeat of the final three points after asking you to consider the comparison of scripture in these images.

Note: Both 2 Peter 3 and Revelation 20-21 mention (a) a thousand years; and (b) a new heavens and new earth:
I looked at the scripture comparisons in the images you shared and I truly have no idea of what point your were intending to make there.

3. People being killed for refusing to worship the beast or his image or receive his mark or the number of his name is only mentioned twice in the New Testament: Revelation 13 and Revelation 20.
Right.

4. Beheading of saints is only mentioned twice in the New Testament, and each time the same saint/s seen living after their beheading is associated with their bodily resurrection (anastasis).
That's just your opinion.

Revelation 20 even calls it the first anastasis (which refers only to a bodily Resurrection wherever the word appears in the New Testament), and we know that because Christ IS the resurrection and the life, it's through His own bodily resurrection that any later bodily resurrection takes place:
The only other verse that references the first anastasis is Acts 26:23 and it's in reference to Christ's bodily resurrection. So, His resurrection is the first bodily resurrection. That's where we need to start when determining what Revelation 20:4-6 is about. When you change the first resurrection into something besides what scripture says it is (Christ's resurrection) then you start going off the rails. Revelation 20:6 talks about those who have part in the first resurrection. That should be understood as having part in Christ's resurrection. How does one have part in His resurrection? By being bodily resurrected? No, by being spiritually saved and going from being spiritually dead in our sins to spiritually alive in Christ.

The New Testament talks about:-

1. Adam's death, which came to all mankind.

2. Christ's (the last Adam's) Resurrection from the dead. Christ IS the Resurrection and the Life.

3. The second death. * There is no second resurrection following the second death.
Not sure what your point is here.

5. At the same time and for the same period, Satan is said to be bound, put in the abyss and a seal set on him so that he is unable to deceive the nations:

Satan is now (in this present time) called the god of this aion (Age) and prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience, who will give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority; and the saints are warned that they should be weary of his wiles and are told to resist him, and to put on the full armour of God because we do not wrestle against flesh and blood
(2 Corinthians 4:3-4; Ephesians 2:2; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7).
We've already talked about the binding of Satan a number of times. I hope you know my understanding of it by now so that I don't have to explain it to you yet again, but I can't be sure since I know that I've told you many times before that I believe the word anastasis is always used in reference to a bodily resurrection and you still forgot about that.

6. In the Greek New Testament, one thousand, two thousand, three thousand, four thousand, five thousand, seven thousand .. goes like this:

chílioi, dischílioi, trischílioi, tetrakischílioi, pentakischílioi (or pénte chiliás), heptakischílioi ..

chílioi literally means a thousand (one thousand) in Revelation 12:6 and Revelation 14:20, where Revelation 12:6 adds chílioi to two hundred and sixty to make 1,260, and where Revelation 14:20 adds it to six hundred to make 1,600.
Yeah, so? The Hebrew word translated as "thousand" in verses like Deuteronomy 7:9 where the word is used to refer to God's promises applying to "a thousand generations" is normally used literally, but it's obviously used figuratively in some verses like Deut 7:9 and Psalm 50:10 which talks about God owning the cattle "on a thousand hills". The idea that chilioi can only be used in a literal sense is false.

It's not as though the one thousand years commences before the new heavens and new earth. It commences with the new heavens and new earth.
That is absolutely false. When the new heavens and new earth commences, there will be no more death, mourning, crying or pain after that. Obviously, there is still death, mourning, crying and pain after the thousand years commences, so what you're saying makes no sense whatsoever.

Satan was allowed to beguile mankind in the Garden of Eden when Adam & Eve were living in God's sabbath and living forever (see
Isaiah 55:8-11).

Besides this,

28 For the earth brings out fruit of itself, first the blade, then [1534 eîta] the ear, after that [1534 eîta] the full grain in the ear.
29 But when the fruit has been brought out, immediately he puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come. (Mark 4:28-29)

23 But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;
24 then [1534 eîta] is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.

Amillennialists have it this way:

28 For the earth brings out fruit of itself, first the blade, then [1534 eîta] he puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come. (Mark 4:28-29).

In the Greek, the word "Then" in Matthew 24:21 is not eita, but tote. Tote means "at the time of this .." (whatever is being spoken about, and in Matthew 24's case it's at the time of whatever was being described in the verses that preceded it).
I tried to follow what you're saying here, but I'm not seeing your point. If you look at how the word eîta is used in every other verse in scripture you should see that it's normally used to describe something that occurs immediately or shortly after something else. In the case of 1 Cor 15:22-24, the end will come shortly after Christ returns and the dead in Christ are raised. We know that has to be true because at that time all believers will be changed to be immortal and all unbelievers will be killed (2 Peter 3:10-12, 2 Thess 1:7-9, Matt 24:35-39, Rev 19:17-18). That doesn't leave any mortals to populate the earth for a thousand years after that.

Another thing to consider is that the end of the age will come when Christ returns (Matthew 24:3). And Jesus taught that believers will "shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" at the end of the age (Matt 13:36-43). That indicates that the kingdom will have been delivered to the Father at that point, which lines up with my interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:22-24.

What follows the return of Christ is what this thread is about. It really doesn't matter how God is going to end the current order.
I completely disagree. Determining how God will end the current order is a major factor in determining what follows the return of Christ. If He ends up by burning everything up when Christ returns then that obviously supports Amil. If He does it some other way a long time after that then it would support Premil. So, how can you say that doesn't matter?

One other thing. Maybe I missed it, but I don't see where you ever answered my question regarding what "the earth" refers to in 2 Peter 3:10. Do you believe it refers to the planet earth or something else? I still don't really know how exactly you currently interpret 2 Peter 3:10-12. I know you said you're not sure, but you seemed to indicate that you currently see it as being figurative language. I don't see how that can be the case, especially if it's referring to the literal heavens and literal planet earth (the surface of earth, at least).
 
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Timtofly

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Ah... so there it is. Delusional fantasies made up OUTSIDE Bible Scripture.

There is NO SCRIPTURE proving that Jesus was ever in a flesh body BEFORE he was born of woman's womb. To even infer that He was, is to COMPLETELY LEAVE God's written Word.

At the end of John 8 when Jesus was speaking to the unbelieving Jews, He said that Abraham saw His day and rejoiced and was glad. That had... to have been by prophesy that Jesus showed Abraham back in Genesis when He appeared to Abraham. That in NO WAY meant Jesus was then in a flesh body! Your idea is actually pretty SICK.
So Jesus did not sit with two angels with Abraham? It was a "sick" deception instead of the real thing? Why do you limit the post resurrected body in creation. Are you saying Jesus cannot exist in eternity outside of time? Are you saying the Word could actually eat food?

No, Apostle Paul did a good job of that, ever read his Epistles, or do you just stay in the Torah?

1 Cor 15:49-50
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

KJV

That's the SECOND TIME I've posted the above Scripture evidence for you. Read it and weep, ye of little faith.
Are you saying Jesus only had Adam's sinful dead corruptible flesh? Jesus had to be changed, and become spiritually reborn, because Jesus was not God? You are placing Jesus as an unregenerated fallen human in need of Salvation.

You really cannot discern Adam's flesh and blood from a literal physical body without sin, and incorruptible?

Apostle Paul made that very plain and easy to understand. The body that is sown (flesh) is NOT THAT BODY THAT SHALL BE (1 Corinthians 15:37). What kind of body is it, THAT SHALL BE? The "spiritual body" he was talking about here...

Was Jesus born into Adam's flesh and blood? Why was a virgin involved?

You are missing the whole point that Jesus lived for over 30 years in a perfect incorruptible physical body. Jesus had no sin nature. Jesus was tempted and did experience life as normal humanity. There is a difference and the same body Jesus had on earth is that tangible physical body, you keep calling "spiritual". Adam's flesh and blood is one body. The spiritual body is what Jesus had for over 30 years. We know it could change, because it changed on the mount of Transfiguration and then went back to normal. Jesus was able to prevent other humans from seeing the full effect of this tangible physical body. Jesus was not a mirage.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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@Timtofly I have the same response to all of your posts. I have no idea of what you're talking about. That's all I can say in response. Your posts come across as incoherent, rambling nonsense to me. Just being honest. So, I don't have any interest in continuing the discussion with you. Thanks, anyway.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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That's correct, there is one future tome that all the dead will be resurrected, there are two groups on this last day resurrection, 1. saved righteous, 2. unsaved wicked
Right. And it shows them being resurrected unto two different eternal destinies. That lines up with the passages like Matthew 13:36-43, Matthew 13:47-50 and Matthew 25:31-46 which show everyone being gathered to be judged at the same time.
 

ewq1938

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You missed the point. Do you even make any effort at all to understand what others are saying? What I'm saying is that word is not used to refer to the act of being resurrected itself. But the word anazao is. So, why wasn't the word anazao used in Revelation 20:4 like it was in verse 5 to describe the rest of the dead living again?

That's saying the person will be alive. It's not saying "and she shall be resurrected". The word zao does not mean to be resurrected. It means to live or to be alive. When a resurrection itself is referred to, a different word like anazao would be used. That's what you're not getting.


You remain wrong. When a dead person becomes Zao a resurrection took place. You are the one not getting this.
 

ewq1938

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Jesus said one time is coming when all of the dead will be raised, not two.

False. "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years" proves a time of a thousand years is inbetween the first group to resurrect and the second group.