Lifting the Veil

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ewq1938

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Rubbish.
All those prophesies refer to the forthcoming Day when the Lord will reset our civilization, as He did in the days of Noah, but this time by fire.
Wait for the Day!

Again, that happens after the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ) seen in Revelation 21. It doesn't happen anywhere near the second coming or Millennium.
 

Keraz

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Again, that happens after the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ) seen in Revelation 21. It doesn't happen anywhere near the second coming or Millennium.
All the prophesies about a punishment by fire, excepting Revelation 20:9, are the Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath; the Sixth Seal.
Isaiah 29:5-8 But, your enemies will become like dust, those ruthless hordes, like blown chaff. Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come from the Lord Almighty, with earthquakes, thunder, storms and a blaze of devouring fire. All the nations warring against Mt Zion, will vanish, as a dream, like one who is hungry or thirsty; then wakes to find himself empty, so it will be with all those nations attacking Israel. Malachi 4:3

The fire judgement on the Middle East, striking ‘in an instant’, will be a Coronal Mass Ejection: a sunstrike of unprecedented magnitude and is the next prophesied event we can expect, it is the Day that will ‘come as a thief’, sudden and unexpectedly. Zechariah 3:9, Isaiah 10:17 It is quite a different event to what is described about the attack and destruction of Gog, of Armageddon, or the fire from God that cremates the armies in Revelation 20:9, all to come later, respectively.

Psalms 83:13-18, Isaiah 34:5, Isaiah 30:25-28 & 30, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18, 2 Peter 3:7
 

Davy

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The verses in Isaiah 30:26...the sun will shine with seven times its normal strength... and Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, are the ones that tell us exactly what means the Lord will use to carry it out. There has, in the past been sunspot activity that has seriously affected the earth, but a really large Coronal Mass Ejection will cause all the prophesied devastation and deaths worldwide. 7 This terrifying and shocking disaster of a fireball that envelopes the earth, will hit suddenly and unexpectedly, killing anyone caught outside. 8 Millions will die from the initial strike and millions more from the fighting and famine afterwards. 9

To re-establish law and order, a One World government will be agreed to, with the world divided into ten regions, each headed by its own president. 10 In Israel, the Messianic Jewish remnant who survive by hiding underground, 11 will be joined by their Christian brethren 12

God knows who they are and He will motivate them to emigrate to the new nation of Beulah, to all of that area promised to the Patriarchs. 13 They will experience the great blessings that God has promised to His righteous faithful Christian people and they will fulfill their destiny. 14

In a few years, a world dictator will come to power and will eventually take control of Beulah and he will desecrate the new Temple. This starts the Great Tribulation, then 3½ years later Jesus returns to commence His Millennium reign. 15

That above is a butchering... of God's written Word. When God's consuming fire burns ALL of man's works off this earth on the "day of the Lord", which is the LAST DAY of this present flesh world, that will END ALL OF MAN'S WORKS on this earth, so it will be impossible... for any world government to be established after that! YOU ARE MAKING THAT UP.

The ONLY government that will exist on this earth AFTER God's consuming fire of 2 Peter 3:10, will be CHRIST'S GOVERNMENT, reigning over ALL NATIONS with His elect priests and kings, as written in His Book of Revelation. And that government will be a KINGDOM, Christ's future Kingdom, right here on earth.

One-world government is an object of MEN, and not of GOD.
 

ewq1938

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All the prophesies about a punishment by fire, excepting Revelation 20:9, are the Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath; the Sixth Seal.


There is no fire used during the events the 6th seal describes which is the day Revelation 19 describes. The 6th seal is prophecy, not events happening when the seal is opened. Revelation 19 is the day the 6th seal events take place and a symbolic sword is used not fire.

None of the passages you cited have anything to do with the 6th seal events.
 

Keraz

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There is no fire used during the events the 6th seal describes which is the day Revelation 19 describes. The 6th seal is prophecy, not events happening when the seal is opened. Revelation 19 is the day the 6th seal events take place and a symbolic sword is used not fire.

None of the passages you cited have anything to do with the 6th seal events.
The Sixth Seal is the Day of the Lords wrath; Revelation 6:12-17
The Day of the Lord's wrath is a day of fire; Isaiah 66:15-16, Joel 3:29-30, Zephaniah 3:8, and many more.

Your idea that nothing actually happens when they are opened is quite wrong. Not to mention ridiculous. What is described in each of the Seals, will occur at the moment Jesus opens them.
Which He has for the first Five Seals. We experience them now and since 1 AD.
 

ewq1938

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The Sixth Seal is the Day of the Lords wrath; Revelation 6:12-17
The Day of the Lord's wrath is a day of fire; Isaiah 66:15-16, Joel 3:29-30, Zephaniah 3:8, and many more.

Your idea that nothing actually happens when they are opened is quite wrong. Not to mention ridiculous. What is described in each of the Seals, will occur at the moment Jesus opens them.


No, nothing happens except John seeing the future. This is proven by the fact that Jesus does not leave heaven to distribute this wrath but instead stays right where he has been and opens the next seal. If you were correct, Jesus would have left heaven right after opening the 6th seal.
 

Keraz

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If you were correct, Jesus would have left heaven right after opening the 6th seal.
Jesus has not yet opened the Sixth Seal. We will know when He does, but not before, as it is the event which comes unexpectedly; as a thief.
Jesus will not be seen until after all the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are over. He SENDS all those punishments.
 

ewq1938

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Jesus has not yet opened the Sixth Seal.


He did after his ascension. All the seals were opened long ago. We are waiting for various trumps to sounds, namely the 6th trump.
 

Timtofly

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He did after his ascension. All the seals were opened long ago. We are waiting for various trumps to sounds, namely the 6th trump.
Are you saying that John went back in time to 30AD and you call that the future?

You are literally claiming that the Seals were opened before John was even placed on the Isle of Patmos. That was not a vision of the future, but the past.

No one on earth can say when the first Seal was opened. Obviously more so, if you attach no meaning to them with events on the earth. You are contradicting your own point.

The 4 beast know when they are opened. John knows when they are opened. When the 6th Seal is opened, those on earth will know. They are trying to hide under rocks and mountains. Why would they hide if there was nothing to hide from? Why would they fear God's wrath and the Lamb's wrath if they had not experienced an event which made them aware of such wrath?

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"

Those in the 6th Seal seeing the face of the one sitting on that great white throne, don't seem too blessed and hopeful.
 

Keraz

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He did after his ascension. All the seals were opened long ago. We are waiting for various trumps to sounds, namely the 6th trump.
It is plain from all the wars, famines and plagues we have had during this age, that the first four Seals were opened when Jesus Ascended. And the Fifth Seal too, with all the Christian martyrs since Stephen and still being added to.

But mankind has not yet experienced the dramatic event of the Sixth Seal, the world changer of cosmic signs and earthly disasters.
The 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls do not commence until the Anti-Christ sits in the Temple; they occur during the last 3 1/2 years of this age, culminating with the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.
 

ewq1938

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It is plain from all the wars, famines and plagues we have had during this age, that the first four Seals were opened when Jesus Ascended. And the Fifth Seal too, with all the Christian martyrs since Stephen and still being added to.

But mankind has not yet experienced the dramatic event of the Sixth Seal, the world changer of cosmic signs and earthly disasters.
The 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls do not commence until the Anti-Christ sits in the Temple; they occur during the last 3 1/2 years of this age, culminating with the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.


The seals still do not cause real world events to happen and Jesus stays in heaven after opening the 6th seal. All the evidence supports my interpretation.
 

Keraz

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The seals still do not cause real world events to happen
This idea conflicts with how the prophesies are stated.
To believe as you do, is just to avoid the possibility of having to face those tests of your faith yourself.

All the evidence supports the actual events happening when Jesus opens each Seal. Which He has done already for the first five. The Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event; Wait for the Day; Zephaniah 3:8
 

ewq1938

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This idea conflicts with how the prophesies are stated.
To believe as you do, is just to avoid the possibility of having to face those tests of your faith yourself.


It's still a fact that Christ opens the 6th seal and goes nowhere but remains in heaven to open the last seal. Your position that he opens the 6th seal and leaves heaven isn't scriptural.
 

Keraz

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It's still a fact that Christ opens the 6th seal and goes nowhere but remains in heaven to open the last seal. Your position that he opens the 6th seal and leaves heaven isn't scriptural.
You mis quote my belief.
I never say the Jesus comes to the earth on His terrible Day of fiery wrath. I often quote Psalms 11:4-6

What is an assured fact is; the Sixth Seal disaster will change the world and set the scene for all the prophesied things to happen, culminating with the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.
 

n2thelight

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How is it that so many people who study Bible prophecy cannot see the forthcoming fire judgement? The forthcoming Lord’s Day, when He will send His fiery wrath upon His enemies. The forthcoming Day the Lord will send His fiery wrath, a disaster of similar magnitude as Noah’s Flood.

It must be attributed to Scriptures that say it will only be possible to know God’s plans just prior to the end time events. 1 Also many are sticking to incorrect ideas, such as a pre Tribulation ‘rapture’ and a nuclear war and they misplace or ignore prophetic verses. 2

Over one hundred scriptures tell of a terrible Day of fire and earthquakes, that will affect all of the world – vivid details of a tremendous destruction that cannot be matched with the war of Gog and Magog or the Return of Jesus.3 Prophesy tells plainly how the Middle East countries and cities will be destroyed, 4 and that God will turn the weapons of those commencing to attack the State of Israel upon their own heads. 5

The nature and extent of this fire judgement rules out any man made explanation. It is clearly stated that the Lord Himself will instigate His Day of vengeance and wrath upon all the inhabitants of the earth. 6

The verses in Isaiah 30:26...the sun will shine with seven times its normal strength... and Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, are the ones that tell us exactly what means the Lord will use to carry it out. There has, in the past been sunspot activity that has seriously affected the earth, but a really large Coronal Mass Ejection will cause all the prophesied devastation and deaths worldwide. 7 This terrifying and shocking disaster of a fireball that envelopes the earth, will hit suddenly and unexpectedly, killing anyone caught outside. 8 Millions will die from the initial strike and millions more from the fighting and famine afterwards. 9

To re-establish law and order, a One World government will be agreed to, with the world divided into ten regions, each headed by its own president. 10 In Israel, the Messianic Jewish remnant who survive by hiding underground, 11 will be joined by their Christian brethren 12

God knows who they are and He will motivate them to emigrate to the new nation of Beulah, to all of that area promised to the Patriarchs. 13 They will experience the great blessings that God has promised to His righteous faithful Christian people and they will fulfill their destiny. 14

In a few years, a world dictator will come to power and will eventually take control of Beulah and he will desecrate the new Temple. This starts the Great Tribulation, then 3½ years later Jesus returns to commence His Millennium reign. 15


Just when do we get to truly understand the prophetic Scriptures? It cannot be that God will say to us after the end times have all happened, “Ha Ha, you dummies, for all your philosophy, sciences and religious studies, you couldn’t figure out what I gave you in your Bible.”
No, God will lift the veil from the minds of the few who earnestly seek the truth, those who put aside preconceived notions and renounce erroneous teachings. 16

1 Thessalonians 5:4 You, friends, are not in the dark...
1 Corinthians 14:22b.....prophecy is for believers.

The Lord will enlighten us if we search the Word, in humility and with the right motives.17 And put aside all theories and fables taught by well intentioned, but wrong; pastors and teachers. 18


(1) Isaiah 32:3, Isaiah 35:5, Amos 3:7, Daniel 12:9-10, Revelation 1:1

(2) Isaiah 8:16-22, Isaiah 29:11-14, 2 Timothy 4:3

(3) Jeremiah 25:30-31, Zechariah 2:13, Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:13, Isaiah 13:6-13, Matthew 3:12

(4) Psalms 83:13-18, Amos 1:2-15, Micah 4:11-12, Zephaniah 2:1-7, Ezekiel 30:1-8

(5) Psalms 7:12-16, Obadiah 15, Isaiah 8:9-10

(6) Isaiah 30:26-28, Isaiah 22:5, Zephaniah 3:8, Jeremiah 4:23-28, Rev.6:12-17

(7) Deuteronomy 32:40-43, Isaiah 51:6, Jeremiah 9:21-22, Isaiah 13:12

(8) Zephaniah 2:1-3, Jeremiah 17:15-18, Isaiah 26:20-21, Ecclesiastes 8:5, Jeremiah 6:25-26

(9) Psalms 109:24, Jeremiah 12:12-13

(10) Daniel 7:24, Revelation 13:1

(11) Zechariah 13:8-9, Isaiah 4:3, Isaiah 29:1-4

(12) Ezekiel 37:15-28, Isaiah 62:4, Zechariah 2:6, Ezekiel 20:34-36, Psalms 50:5

(13) Jeremiah 3:22, Jeremiah 31:8-9, Isaiah 60:4, Isaiah 40:27-31, Amos 9:8b-15

(14) Ezekiel 36:8-10, Isaiah 49:8-11, Joel 2:23-27, Deuteronomy 30:1-5, Jeremiah 30:18

(15) Psalms 47:8-9, Psalms 93:1-5, Isaiah 11:6-10, Rev.20:4

(16) Isaiah 30:18, Psalms 27:11-13, Isaiah 29:24, Hosea 12:10, Isaiah 35:3-5, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

(17) 1 Peter 1:19, Matthew 7:8

(18) Matthew 7:15, Isaiah 29:11, Jeremiah 14:14

Why are you thinking with the flesh ?
 

n2thelight

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The Earth will Burn: 2 Peter 3:7, Isaiah 66:15-16, Zephaniah 3:8, Isaiah 33:10-12

In ancient times, God promised to Noah that He would never again destroy the earth with a flood. Genesis 9:11 But we see in Deuteronomy 32:34-35 & 22, God has kept in His storehouse a judgement of fire prepared and ready for His Day of vengeance. As we are once again ‘as in the days of Noah’, this terrible and devastating Day of fires, storms and earthquakes will soon strike the world, it will be the next prophesied event that will commence all that must happen, leading up to the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign.

The earth will be rejuvenated not burnt up

II Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

"A thief in the night" is an figure of speech that means that Christ shall come at an unexpected time. In the English it sounds like a very scary time, but lets see what it says in the original text. The "elements" are not the elements that you think of, such as gold, iron, oxygen and so on, but they are the "evil rudiments" that go to make up the evil in this earth age. This includes the evil spirits, the fallen angels, and all the things and forms of idolatry that cause flesh man to sin. The time of this burning will be at God's appointed time, so this verse is addressed to all those things that go to offend our Heavenly Father.
 

Keraz

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Ok, so what do you believe Jesus does when the 6th seal is opened?
He SENDS fire.
As Amos 1 and Amos 2:1-5 plainly tell us.
He will not be seen on that Day. Habakkuk 3:4, Psalms 18:11
Why are you thinking with the flesh ?
Why must you make rude comments?
Is it because I challenge your false beliefs? And you have no scriptural rebuttal.
The earth will be rejuvenated not burnt up
You confuse 2 Peter 3:7, with 2 Peter 3:10
Verse 7 refers to the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, the Sixth seal worldwide disaster.
Verse 10 refers to the remaking of the heavens and earth, as Revelation 21:1-7 tells us.

The 'unexpected' event will be the Sixth Seal, the glorious Return cannot be a surprise. 1 Thess 4:16
 

Behold

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There is no second coming verse or passage that describes any fire being used to kill anyone. We don't see that because it doesn't exist.

Sure there is..

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
 
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ewq1938

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Sure there is..

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


In flaming fire is how he returns. It's not the weapon he uses to kill, which is a symbolic sword.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

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From a primary f?e´?? phlego¯ (to “flash” or “flame”); a blaze: - flame (-ing).

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A primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.


In flaming fire is regarding how Christ returns not how the unsaved are killed. Flaming means a flash and fire is specifically lightning according to the Strong's concordance. So, Christ comes in a flash of lightning to arrive and take vengeance (the sword of his mouth Rev 19) on the unsaved and that shouldn't be surprising because we were told that before:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.



This denotes the speed of his return like a flash of lightning. It has nothing to do with using fire or lightning against the unsaved. To think that is to misread the verses.


Just read Rev 19 where the battle is described and you will see ZERO fire or lightning used to kill anyone.

2Th 1:7-8

And to you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels In A FLASH OF LIGHTNING
taking vengeance (with a sword according to Revelation 19) on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ