When the Bible says, "Dead", what does it mean?

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marks

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Ohhh marks, I'm not stating a position one way or the other in my post......but it's clear from your reply that you think I'm affirming whatever you imagine I'm affirming.
No, I realize that.

I'm just responding with my own thoughts.

You simply said that some can be figurative.

I think I see what you are looking at.

That's all well and good until you read "dead" meant literally, but you say, it's figurative.

Since you hadn't actually said that a particular word was being used figuratively, I suppose I thought that when I said, "until you read . . . but you say", that you would understand I was using a general "you". No, I'm not supposing that you had made a declaration one way or the other, only that words can be literal or figurative.

My response is basically that there is the risk of calling the literal to be figurative, what if it's actually literal? And if you say, that is, if someone says a certain place is figurative, then we have to ask, figurative of what? And then, if we have a passage that tells us, we can look to that, otherwise, each provides their own answer, and we have 30,000 denominations, or however many their are.

Does this clarify for you?

Much love!
 

Angelina

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Something very interesting in this passage, if our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, eternal in the heavens.
What do think Paul meant when he said, "I die daily"?
Much love!
Interesting indeed! 1 Corinthians 15:
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
29 Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf? 30 Why are we in danger every hour? 31 I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day! 32 What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

He is talking about the fact re: if the dead are not raised. The dead being himself, his disciples and other believers [in the resurrection], then why they are they waisting their time being in constant danger of their lives on a daily basis. If the dead are not raised? Paul says he is in danger every hour.
1 Corinthians 15:30.

2 Corinthians 11:24-33 Paul says

23 Are they servants of Christ?
I’m talking like a madman—I’m a better one:
with far more labors,
many more imprisonments,
far worse beatings, near death many times.
24 Five times I received 39 lashes from Jews.
25 Three times I was beaten with rods by the Romans.
Once I was stoned by my enemies.
Three times I was shipwrecked.
I have spent a night and a day
in the open sea.
26 On frequent journeys, I faced
dangers from rivers,
dangers from robbers,
dangers from my own people,
dangers from the Gentiles,
dangers in the city,
dangers in the open country,
dangers on the sea,
and dangers among false brothers;
27 labor and hardship,
many sleepless nights, hunger and thirst,
often without food, cold, and lacking clothing.

28 Not to mention other things, there is the daily pressure on me: my care for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation? 30 If boasting is necessary, I will boast about my weaknesses. 31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is praised forever, knows I am not lying. 32 In Damascus, the governor under King Aretas guarded the city of the Damascenes in order to arrest me, 33 so I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands.
 
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quietthinker

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My response is basically that there is the risk of calling the literal to be figurative, what if it's actually literal? And if you say, that is, if someone says a certain place is figurative, then we have to ask, figurative of what? And then, if we have a passage that tells us, we can look to that, otherwise, each provides their own answer, and we have 30,000 denominations, or however many their are.
Determining what is intended as literal and what is intended as figurative and getting it right is the essence of wisdom. One cannot join the dots well if fudging to underpin a predetermined outcome is practiced.
 

marks

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One cannot join the dots well if fudging to underpin a predetermined outcome is practiced.
Very true! I definitely recommend that we approach Scripture subjecting ourselves to it as unto the very voice of God.

And a good reason to not just say some certain thing is figurative without a solid Scriptural foundation. And that foundation can't just be, "It can't actually mean that, because of how I understand this other place." We need to find the harmony while preserving the meaning of each place.

Much love!
 

amigo de christo

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Interesting the things one notices at different times! "The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For God has put all things in subjection under His feet."

"For" shows causal relationship. Because God has subjected all things to Christ, the last enemy to be destroyed is death.

1 Corinthians 15:24-31 LITV
24) Then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father, when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.
25) For it is right for Him to reign until He puts all the hostile ones under His feet;
26) the last hostile thing made to cease is death.
27) For He subjected all things under His feet; but when He says that all things have been subjected, it is plain that it excepts Him who has subjected all things to Him.
28) But when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who has subjected all things to Him, that God may be all things in all.
29) Otherwise, what will they do, those being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not at all raised, why indeed are they baptized on behalf of the dead?
30) Why are we also in danger every hour?
31) Day by day I die, by your boasting, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I think I want to read over the passage some more, meditate on it a bit.

What do think Paul meant when he said, "I die daily"?

Much love!
He dies daily to the lusts of the flesh to sin . We must pick up our cross daily and follow Christ .
 

amigo de christo

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Interestingly,

John 2:19-22 LITV
19) Jesus said to them, Destroy this sanctuary, and in three days I will raise it up.
20) Then the Jews said, This sanctuary was forty six years being built, and do You raise it up in three days?
21) But He spoke about the sanctuary of His body.
22) Then when He was raised from the dead, His disciples recalled that He said this to them. And they believed the Scripture, even the Word that Jesus spoke.

How did Jesus raise Himself? It's as if physical death was not the end of Jesus' existence.

Matthew 12:39-40 LITV
39) But answering, He said to them, An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it, except the sign of Jonah the prophet.
40) And even as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

So then, where was Jesus while His body lay in the tomb?

Much love!
Well i do know he descended into hell , took the ol keys of death from he who had the power over death , that is the devil .
I believe peter says even the gospel was preached to them . I think it means he preached it to the lost souls etc .
But not for sure about that . I do know HE conquered HE who had the power over death , the devil
and that all who do believe in Christ shall be saved . YEP . And i know those who denied HIM , CHRIST ,
are gonna wish they never had on the day of THE LORD . I know we must continue , WHILE there be time to do so ,
to point all that has breath to the glorious RISEN LORD CHRIST JESUS . FOR HE ALONE is the ONLY NAME WHEREBY ONE MAY BE SAVED .
 

VictoryinJesus

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The first ressurrection implies that there is a first death which is our physical body....as Paul says in -


I’ve often wondered if the first death is our physical body..to clarify I mean when the body dies and is buried in the ground.
What of Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
 
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amigo de christo

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If we read on , we find out what paul meant . it simply meant he died to sin . Sin became exceeding sinful to Him .
Its time to march onwards in the LORD and point to Christ . vapor life lasts not long , but eternal life is forever .
Point all to Christ while we have the time to do so . For GOD will judge the world by Christ and all who denied HIM
will face the wrath of GOD . But unto all who called upon HIS NAME they shall have eternal life forever with the KING who saved them .
 

VictoryinJesus

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If we read on , we find out what paul meant . it simply meant he died to sin . Sin became exceeding sinful to Him .

yes but regarding the OP… “death” in those verse…does it come before or after the death of going in a coffin?
 

amigo de christo

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yes but regarding the OP… “death” in those verse…does it come before or after the death of going in a coffin?
Paul wrote it while he was not yet buried , he was still in the land of the living . THUS it means before we hit the coffin .
For there is no second chance after our last breath .
 

Robert Gwin

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Ephesians 2:1-5 LITV
1) and you being dead in deviations and sins,
2) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience,
3) among whom we also all conducted ourselves in times past in the lusts of our flesh, doing the things willed of the flesh and of the understanding, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as the rest.
4) But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5) even we being dead in deviations, He made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are being saved),

Romans 6:7 LITV
7) For the one that died has been justified from sin.

What are these passages telling us? What does "death" mean in the Bible?

Colossians 2:13 LITV
13) And you, being dead in the deviations and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the deviations,

Colossians 3:1-5 LITV
1) If, then, you were raised with Christ, seek the things above, where Christ is sitting at the right of God;
2) mind the things above, not the things on the earth.
3) For you died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God.
4) Whenever Christ our life is revealed, then also you will be revealed with Him in glory.
5) Then put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil lust, and covetousness, which is idolatry;

Romans 7:4-6 LITV
4) So that, my brothers, you also were made dead to the Law through the body of Christ, for you to become Another's, to the One raised from the dead, so that we may bear fruit to God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sin were working in our members through the Law for the bearing of fruit unto death.
6) But now we have been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.

Romans 6:11 LITV
11) So also you count yourselves to be truly dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Truly dead! Truly?

If Death only means the cessation of life, and you are alive if you are standing, and when you die you just drop and that's the end, how you account for the sayings of these passages? And many more like them?

Much love!

As you can see Marks, the meanings vary to match the context.
1) and you being dead in deviations and sins,
In this case, these disciples were working hard to not sin, exceptionally.

Romans 6:7 LITV
7) For the one that died has been justified from sin.

This passage means that upon death all those who have not sinned against the holy spirit have been acquitted of sins committed while alive.


Colossians 2:13 LITV
13) And you, being dead in the deviations and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the deviations,

These were anointed Christians who became dead to the world, and now alive by being born again.
Colossians 3:1-5 LITV
1) If, then, you were raised with Christ, seek the things above, where Christ is sitting at the right of God;
2) mind the things above, not the things on the earth.
3) For you died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God.
4) Whenever Christ our life is revealed, then also you will be revealed with Him in glory.
5) Then put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil lust, and covetousness, which is idolatry;
These not longer practiced those things in verse 5

Romans 7:4-6 LITV
4) So that, my brothers, you also were made dead to the Law through the body of Christ, for you to become Another's, to the One raised from the dead, so that we may bear fruit to God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sin were working in our members through the Law for the bearing of fruit unto death.
6) But now we have been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.

Christians no longer had to obey the law, they were now under a new covenant, therefore the law was dead to them, or no longer valid.
Romans 6:11 LITV
11) So also you count yourselves to be truly dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Truly dead! Truly?

If Death only means the cessation of life, and you are alive if you are standing, and when you die you just drop and that's the end, how you account for the sayings of these passages? And many more like them?

Dont even consider sinning,

Nice that you picked up on that sir, many words have various meanings but can usually be understood by examining the surrounding words and context of how they fit together. Another way to make sure is that it does not contradict any other passage, if it does then it has not been fully understood.
 

marks

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Well i do know he descended into hell , took the ol keys of death from he who had the power over death , that is the devil .
I believe peter says even the gospel was preached to them . I think it means he preached it to the lost souls etc .
But not for sure about that . I do know HE conquered HE who had the power over death , the devil
and that all who do believe in Christ shall be saved . YEP . And i know those who denied HIM , CHRIST ,
are gonna wish they never had on the day of THE LORD . I know we must continue , WHILE there be time to do so ,
to point all that has breath to the glorious RISEN LORD CHRIST JESUS . FOR HE ALONE is the ONLY NAME WHEREBY ONE MAY BE SAVED .
Peter said Jesus preached to the spirits in prison, who were disobedient in the days of Noah.

One time in the NT the word translated "preach", make a proclamation, only one time it's used that is not specifically about the Gospel, when the context shows the use.

Paul wrote that sin is not imputed when there is no Law, and so maybe it was that Jesus went into Sheol to proclaim His victory over sin and death, and that this is "He took captivity captive".

This would not be outside of His wonderful grace!

Much love!
 
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Wrangler

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When the Bible says, "Dead", what does it mean?

Words have objective meaning and do not change based on being in one book or another. Dead means the end of life. It's quite simple. Some mean it literally while others use it metaphorically.

It's amazing that you feel the need to start a whole thread on common words. "In the beginning God" If you have to delve into each words meaning, AS IF it is mystical, it will take a long time to read the Bible AND you won't see the forest for the trees.

Much love.
 

marks

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Depends on the context. Inall cases the your references are to SPIRITUAL death - i.e. you're totally BLIND and unaware of anything beyond your physical senses.

Being Born Again is a DEATH - of the "OLD MAN" with his lusts, and appetites. Our "Old Man" WAS CRUCIFIED with Christ which is what sets us free from the LAW - the law has no effect on something dead. We allowed the LAW to "judge us" find us guilty, and kill us (in Christ). so the life we NOW live is Christ's life in us. so essentially in your cites, SPIRITUAL DEATH, or Death of the OLD MAN is the issue. UNFORTUNATELY, the "Old Man" is still alive in your human nature, and you're to DESTROY (render inneffective) the lusts of the flesh by refusing (with God's help) to follow the urges when they come.

There WILL BE an ultimate "Physical death" of course.

So Death in general is simply a failure to react to stimuli. Somebody wrongs you, and your natural FLeshly reaction it is to "Make them pay" - If you don't and simply forgive, you've crucified your Human nature-your "Old Man".

I pointed to these passages as being the ones that prove the exception for those who see death as merely an end, and yes, these are spiritual death, which as I understand this, is to be spiritually separated from God, and therefore lacking any spiritual life. That is the blindness of the flesh, and the renewing of the mind as we learn to live our spirit life.

On this part,

UNFORTUNATELY, the "Old Man" is still alive in your human nature, and you're to DESTROY (render inneffective) the lusts of the flesh by refusing (with God's help) to follow the urges when they come.

I like the way you worded that, "render ineffective the lusts of the flesh", that IS what we are doing, isn't it?

But I don't think the old man is still alive, he's been crucified, and we are told to put him off of us. Stop wearing him.

Romans 6:6-11 KJV
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed (rendered ineffective), that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The old man was crucified with Him, so that the body of sin, from whence come those lusts, might be rendered powerless, so we don't serve sin anymore.

We are dead to sin, which means that we've been entirely separated from sin, it's source, it's effects, it's condemnation. This is death . . . separation. We are dead to sin, and alive unto God.

We are instructed to account that to be true, and that for the purpose that we would live lives free from sin.

Refusing to follow those fleshy urges, standing steadfast against them, knowing that God empowers our freedom! Our struggle against our flesh.

Accounting we are dead to sin, and alive to God, when lusts come, we acknowledge that we are indeed dead to sin, and alive to God, and in the faith that this is so, we turn in our hearts to God, to bask in His love, to know the kindness of His grace, to live open before Him in love. Those lusts just seem to get forgotten.

Much love!
 

marks

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yes but regarding the OP… “death” in those verse…does it come before or after the death of going in a coffin?
It's an interesting question, I want to think about it a bit, when that death comes.

Maybe the answer is when he learned what the law required, that was when he became responsible for obedience, and lacking obedience, "sin came alive, and I died". This seems to go towards the whole "age of responsibility" question, and imputation of sin.

Romans 5 says that sin is not imputed when there isn't law. It really is an interesting question!

I agree with @amigo de christo , in that Paul wrote before his physical death. Still going to think about this.

Much love!
 
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Behold

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Ephesians 2:1-5 LITV
1) and you being dead in deviations and sins,
2
7) For the one that died has been justified from sin.
!


When Adam "fell".........he was no longer in spiritual union with God's Spirit.
= No longer "one with God" ......as God is A Spirit.
This Biblical idea of spiritual separation = is to become "DEAD".
The spirit isn't dead, but its no longer a part of God's Spirit.

To be "dead in trespasses and sin" is to be in that spiritual condition as Adam when he Fell.
So, the ADAMIC Nature is the nature of the "dead" spirit, that is separated from God's.

Jesus came to restore our "dead" or separated from God Spirit back to God's.
He came to provide the WAY. John 14:6 for us to become "ONE with GOD".. "In Christ". for ETERNITY = To have Eternal Life.
To be BORN AGAIN....is to be born into the Spirit of God, BY the Holy Spirit.
This places us into Spiritual Union with God, exactly as ADAM had it, before he "fell".
 
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amigo de christo

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Peter said Jesus preached to the spirits in prison, who were disobedient in the days of Noah.

One time in the NT the word translated "preach", make a proclamation, only one time it's used that is not specifically about the Gospel, when the context shows the use.

Paul wrote that sin is not imputed when there is no Law, and so maybe it was that Jesus went into Sheol to proclaim His victory over sin and death, and that this is "He took captivity captive".

This would not be outside of His wonderful grace!

Much love!
Correct . But since THEN , if anyone denies HIM it will be worse for them on the day of judgment than even for Sodom .
In other words , THERE wont be no second chance . If one denies HIM they will be Denied .
 

Behold

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In other words , THERE wont be no second chance . If one denies HIM they will be Denied .

Jesus, God in the Flesh, died on The Cross, on EARTH.
So, there is no Cross in Eternity, or Christ on it, that you can believe on, after you die.
You have to give God your faith in Jesus, while you are on EARTH.

Or you die like this....... John 3:36
 
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Philip James

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If Death only means the cessation of life, and you are alive if you are standing, and when you die you just drop and that's the end, how you account for the sayings of these passages? And many more like them?

Hi marks,

Interesting discussion. I'll add one more passage to the many listed here..

But he answered him, "Let the dead bury their dead. But you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God."

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
 
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