Lifting the Veil

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Keraz

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In flaming fire is how he returns. It's not the weapon he uses to kill, which is a symbolic sword.
More confusion between the terrible Day the Lord sends fire to destroy the attackers of Israel. Psalm 83, +
And the glorious Return; where He destroys the attacking armies at Armageddon by the Sword of His Word.

Two different Days, years apart.
 

ewq1938

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"In flaming fire,= taking Vengeance"

Its connected.

Of course but he comes IN fire which is actually described as a flash of lightning. That's the speed of the return. The vengeance is the winepress, sword and vials. None involve fire to kill.

Let's change the wording and punctuation (there is none in the manuscripts) to see if it clarifies this:

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in darkened fog, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ


Would you argue that fog was used to kill people or is that a description of how he arrives as I am saying. He comes IN flaming fire/a flash of lightning not using it as a weapon.
 

Behold

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Yes; with the Sixth Seal punishment. NOT with the glorious Return.
It is serious error to mix up the two separate events.

Let me show you a different theology, based on the verse, and not based on your church, commentary, or your personal opinion.

Notice in 2nd Thess.....its says, "in Flaming fire, taking vengeance"..

Now, the WHO, that are being destroyed, shows you WHEN this happens.

Who are they.?

This verse """who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ""""

Notice, this is PAUL speaking......and He says......"the Gospel".

Now, he is talking about people who do not "believe in Jesus and are born again" as "Faith is counted as Righteousness".

This that the Gospel of "The Grace of God". and that is the "time of the Gentiles" or current church age, as this "Gospel" isn't being preached in the Tribulation by the 144,000 Jews.
Those in the TRIB can't OBEY the Gospel that is "Paul's Gospel", as that one is GONE, as is the Body of Christ.

So, who is left in the Great Trib, that is going to be PUNISHED by 2nd Thess > "flaming fire, Vengeance "????

Its All the unbelievers who are still here, for that 7 yrs, who have taken the Mark.
See, there will be some who listen to the 144,000's preaching, and they will be Marty'd., yet, heaven bound.
 

GEN2REV

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How is it that so many people who study Bible prophecy cannot see the forthcoming fire judgement? The forthcoming Lord’s Day, when He will send His fiery wrath upon His enemies. The forthcoming Day the Lord will send His fiery wrath, a disaster of similar magnitude as Noah’s Flood.

It must be attributed to Scriptures that say it will only be possible to know God’s plans just prior to the end time events. 1 Also many are sticking to incorrect ideas, such as a pre Tribulation ‘rapture’ and a nuclear war and they misplace or ignore prophetic verses. 2

Over one hundred scriptures tell of a terrible Day of fire and earthquakes, that will affect all of the world – vivid details of a tremendous destruction that cannot be matched with the war of Gog and Magog or the Return of Jesus.3 Prophesy tells plainly how the Middle East countries and cities will be destroyed, 4 and that God will turn the weapons of those commencing to attack the State of Israel upon their own heads. 5

The nature and extent of this fire judgement rules out any man made explanation. It is clearly stated that the Lord Himself will instigate His Day of vengeance and wrath upon all the inhabitants of the earth. 6

The verses in Isaiah 30:26...the sun will shine with seven times its normal strength... and Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, are the ones that tell us exactly what means the Lord will use to carry it out. There has, in the past been sunspot activity that has seriously affected the earth, but a really large Coronal Mass Ejection will cause all the prophesied devastation and deaths worldwide. 7 This terrifying and shocking disaster of a fireball that envelopes the earth, will hit suddenly and unexpectedly, killing anyone caught outside. 8 Millions will die from the initial strike and millions more from the fighting and famine afterwards. 9

To re-establish law and order, a One World government will be agreed to, with the world divided into ten regions, each headed by its own president. 10 In Israel, the Messianic Jewish remnant who survive by hiding underground, 11 will be joined by their Christian brethren 12

God knows who they are and He will motivate them to emigrate to the new nation of Beulah, to all of that area promised to the Patriarchs. 13 They will experience the great blessings that God has promised to His righteous faithful Christian people and they will fulfill their destiny. 14

In a few years, a world dictator will come to power and will eventually take control of Beulah and he will desecrate the new Temple. This starts the Great Tribulation, then 3½ years later Jesus returns to commence His Millennium reign. 15


Just when do we get to truly understand the prophetic Scriptures? It cannot be that God will say to us after the end times have all happened, “Ha Ha, you dummies, for all your philosophy, sciences and religious studies, you couldn’t figure out what I gave you in your Bible.”
No, God will lift the veil from the minds of the few who earnestly seek the truth, those who put aside preconceived notions and renounce erroneous teachings. 16

1 Thessalonians 5:4 You, friends, are not in the dark...
1 Corinthians 14:22b.....prophecy is for believers.

The Lord will enlighten us if we search the Word, in humility and with the right motives.17 And put aside all theories and fables taught by well intentioned, but wrong; pastors and teachers. 18


(1) Isaiah 32:3, Isaiah 35:5, Amos 3:7, Daniel 12:9-10, Revelation 1:1

(2) Isaiah 8:16-22, Isaiah 29:11-14, 2 Timothy 4:3

(3) Jeremiah 25:30-31, Zechariah 2:13, Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:13, Isaiah 13:6-13, Matthew 3:12

(4) Psalms 83:13-18, Amos 1:2-15, Micah 4:11-12, Zephaniah 2:1-7, Ezekiel 30:1-8

(5) Psalms 7:12-16, Obadiah 15, Isaiah 8:9-10

(6) Isaiah 30:26-28, Isaiah 22:5, Zephaniah 3:8, Jeremiah 4:23-28, Rev.6:12-17

(7) Deuteronomy 32:40-43, Isaiah 51:6, Jeremiah 9:21-22, Isaiah 13:12

(8) Zephaniah 2:1-3, Jeremiah 17:15-18, Isaiah 26:20-21, Ecclesiastes 8:5, Jeremiah 6:25-26

(9) Psalms 109:24, Jeremiah 12:12-13

(10) Daniel 7:24, Revelation 13:1

(11) Zechariah 13:8-9, Isaiah 4:3, Isaiah 29:1-4

(12) Ezekiel 37:15-28, Isaiah 62:4, Zechariah 2:6, Ezekiel 20:34-36, Psalms 50:5

(13) Jeremiah 3:22, Jeremiah 31:8-9, Isaiah 60:4, Isaiah 40:27-31, Amos 9:8b-15

(14) Ezekiel 36:8-10, Isaiah 49:8-11, Joel 2:23-27, Deuteronomy 30:1-5, Jeremiah 30:18

(15) Psalms 47:8-9, Psalms 93:1-5, Isaiah 11:6-10, Rev.20:4

(16) Isaiah 30:18, Psalms 27:11-13, Isaiah 29:24, Hosea 12:10, Isaiah 35:3-5, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

(17) 1 Peter 1:19, Matthew 7:8

(18) Matthew 7:15, Isaiah 29:11, Jeremiah 14:14
You always begin with Scripture and gradually shift into your own interpretations of what will take place. The Bible says nothing about any Coronal Mass Ejection of the sun, nor of any fireballs enveloping the earth.

It will be the Brightness of Jesus' coming that will destroy the earth and all sinners; there will be no organizing of peoples and nations upon the old and fallen earth afterward.
 

GEN2REV

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There is no second coming verse or passage that describes any fire being used to kill anyone. We don't see that because it doesn't exist.
Of course it exists, and it is plain to see, you just refuse to see it in your zeal to support Pre-Mil false doctrine instead of the Truth of God's Word.

All these verses coincide perfectly with Christ's return and the fiery judgment that immediately ensues.
2 Peter 3:10-11
Matthew 24:29-31
1 Corinthians 15:22-27
Isaiah 13:9-11
2 Thessalonians 2:8
 

GEN2REV

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Do you have a cognizance problem?
I have made it clear that the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath, will happen at least 7+ years before He Returns.
Oh so now the Day of the Lord happens BEFORE Christ's return.

Ok....THAT'S Biblical.

Not.
 

GEN2REV

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The most well known and clearest description of the second coming is Revelation 19 and no fire is used to kill. He uses a symbolic sword, not fire.
Yesss.

The clearest description of the second coming is found in the book that is not clear at all about a single thing.

He uses a symbolic sword in that chapter so it's gotta be plain.
 

GEN2REV

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I agree.
It is you who has the idea that I believe they are about the Return. I do not believe that.

They all refer to the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath; the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
This forthcoming world changer is what I focus on and what many simply cannot see.

As I quoted in #3, those who fail to understand Gods Plans for our future, will be surprised and may perish.
So now this "DAY" of fiery Wrath is a 7 year period; we've dumped the 1,000 year definition of Day, now we're going with 7. It's SEVEN years now.

And what is your Scriptural evidence to make the case that this DAY is a 7 year period?
 

GEN2REV

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There is no such thing. The only time fire is used to kill is in Revelation 20, long after the second coming. The next fire that is used would be to bring about the New Heaven and new Earth and I see that fire as cleansing.
I think your Bible is about 65 books shy.
 

Keraz

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So, who is left in the Great Trib, that is going to be PUNISHED by 2nd Thess > "flaming fire, Vengeance "????
As I have made clear: the terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, will happen before the GT.
It will be the next prophesied event; the world changer that set the scene for all to happen before Jesus Returns.
Oh so now the Day of the Lord happens BEFORE Christ's return.

Ok....THAT'S Biblical. Not.
Revelation 6:12-17 is years before Revelation 19:11
So now this "DAY" of fiery Wrath is a 7 year period; we've dumped the 1,000 year definition of Day, now we're going with 7. It's SEVEN years now.

And what is your Scriptural evidence to make the case that this DAY is a 7 year period?
Foolishness.
The Lord's Day, the day when He sends fire from the sun. is just a one day event. Isaiah 9:14, Zechariah 3:9, Revelation 18:8
The Bible says nothing about any Coronal Mass Ejection of the sun, nor of any fireballs enveloping the earth.
Zephaniah 3:8, Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Peter 3:7, Hebrews 10:27, +
 

GEN2REV

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Revelation 6:12-17 is years before Revelation 19:11
Based on what proof? Just because you say so?

Foolishness.
The Lord's Day, the day when He sends fire from the sun. is just a one day event. Isaiah 9:14, Zechariah 3:9, Revelation 18:8

Zephaniah 3:8, Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Peter 3:7, Hebrews 10:27, +
Not ONE of those verses speaks of a blast from the sun, nor of any fireball that envelops the earth.
 

Keraz

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Based on what proof? Just because you say so?
Revelation is Written in a general sequence.
Its says: and then..... and: after that I saw........
The Sixth Seal must happen before the Trumpets and Bowls; then Jesus will Return. After that, He will reign for the next thousand years. Then comes the end and He will hand the Kingdom back to the Father. 1 Corinthians 15:24
Not ONE of those verses speaks of a blast from the sun, nor of any fireball that envelops the earth.
Zephaniah 3:8 ....the whole earth will be consumed by fire of My anger.
Isaiah 30:26a The sun will shine 7 times brighter....... The bright flash of an explosion on the suns surface.

What should you believe? What the Bible Prophets tell us, or fables and guesswork?
 

ewq1938

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Revelation is Written in a general sequence.
Its says: and then..... and: after that I saw........
The Sixth Seal must happen before the Trumpets and Bowls


There is no "happening" regarding any of the seals. They were opened long ago and what knowledge of the future was revealed long ago. We are waiting for some trumps to sound, the 5th might have sounded already, but the 6th is easier to identify because it contains the 42 month period.
 

GEN2REV

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What should you believe? What the Bible Prophets tell us, or fables and guesswork?
What should you believe? Exegesis or Eisegesis?

You choose Eisegesis (your own interpretations) and present it as Scripture.

Unless the Bible says somewhere that God is the sun, you are making assumptions and drawing conclusions that you fully expect everyone else to accept without question.

The Bible does not say what you are claiming.