A Discussion About Truth

Wrangler · May 20, 2022

Qoheleth said:
Were you in public schools?

Sadly, yes.

theefaith · May 20, 2022

Jn 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

amadeus · May 20, 2022

theefaith said:
Jn 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

But who knows him so well, this One that names himself as the Truth?

BarneyFife · May 20, 2022

Wrangler said:
On the contrary, that was beautiful!

You're too kind.

Aunty Jane · May 20, 2022

G’day Qo

.....I am waking up to a second page already! Not surprising given the time difference. I am already in your tomorrow.

Anyhow, I enjoyed reading your opening words and yes, we have come from different denominational backgrounds......both of us coming to a decision at some point, that the “Christianity” we were raised with, was not satisfying to an inner need for “truth”.
When Jesus spoke of truth, Pilate asked “what is truth?”(John 18:37-38) .....a very important question. “Truth” can be something you “believe”, but in reality could be just the opposite. So let’s explore what the Bible says is "truth"....

It’s a strange thing to consider that one man’s truth is another man’s falsehood....it all depends on what is in our heart, and what we (it) are looking for....what appeals to us. God will not interfere with our heart’s desire and will stand back until he sees who we reveal ourselves to be....of our own free will. Only when we show him our true selves will he then "draw" us to the truth....his truth. (John 6:44; 65)

So let’s start at the beginning......
From my studies, I understand that we are all basically ‘on trial’ in this life or rather that the exercise of our free will is being tested. We have an adversary who will stop at nothing to separate us from our Creator. Deception is his MO and has been from the beginning. From God’s perspective, what happened in Eden had to be addressed so that it could never happen again. How God handled this rebellion was going to set the scene for all time to come....an object lesson so very raw and powerful that it would bring out the best and the worst in people.

Rebellion had surfaced in the spirit realm first....and had spilled over into the newly created human race right at its beginning. What God did to address the situation, involved his love and wisdom in how the outcome would affect our future. In my experience, many do not even consider this aspect...but it is vital to our understanding IMO. Its always good to go back to 'the scene of the crime' and ponder on the evidence presented.

So my first point of interest is why we find ourselves in this situation in the first place. What really happened in Eden that prompted all that followed for the human race, as well as for the angelic sons of God who also came into the picture later in the biblical record. (Genesis 1-6)

Was God allowing the devil a free hand to prove that he would be the better god and ruler over mankind?
If one of the new humans had chosen to believe this rebel’s lies and had influenced someone else to do so, what were the implications of this abuse of free will for the children they were told to have? How would their decision affect those children being raised by now sinful parents alienated from their Creator? How would it affect other angels who also had free will? What did God offer by way of help?
What outcome was he hoping for? (John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9-10)

I believe the lesson here is learning to manage free will so that it becomes the blessing it was meant to be, rather than the curse it became when it was abused. Why else would the devil rule with God’s permission, knowing that he was a heartless predator? (1 John 5:19; 1 Peter 5:6-11)

What are your thoughts Qo?

ScottA · May 20, 2022

bbyrd009 said:
”this is that, that is this, its like this and like that and like this”

There are only two sources, but many speak, some with authority, many without.

Brakelite · May 21, 2022

bbyrd009 said:
”this is that, that is this, its like this and like that and like this”

But never like 'that'.

bbyrd009 · May 21, 2022

Qoheleth said:
Sure, I get that, but didn't it start as an atheistic slur?

sorry, didnt what start? But i am seeing that making statements might be atheistic, dunno if that is what you meant…
it isnt called What is it? for nothing i guess

Qoheleth said:
I am very interested in the way that the constant state of flux in which language resides affects the pursuit of truth

you might narrow it down maybe, “truth in ______,” but as we seem to be in a constant state of flux ourselves i wonder if “truth” can only ever be a snapshot of a moment, perhaps even a past one

Qoheleth said:
Well, I don't know about finding out what logos is by process of elimination

i guess we know It when we hear It huh

Wrangler said:
On the contrary, that was beautiful!

i thought it was pretty good myself

bbyrd009 · May 21, 2022

Qoheleth said:
Headship is definitely not something I lay awake worrying about at night. Although, to be honest, my denominational structure has had quite a stir about it for the last 30 years or so. With some elements of both sides of the argument behaving quite poorly, I might add. What has been accomplished is various-sized pockets of disunity, unfortunately. I found myself literally in tears while watching the 2015 General Conference Session in San Antonio.

Qoheleth said:
She seems to possess the aggressiveness needed to be a leader

i wonder if the best leaders are not the reluctant ones

bbyrd009 · May 21, 2022

bbyrd009 said:
dysphoria

i meant “aphasia” there i guess, i have no dysphoria any more

bbyrd009 · May 21, 2022

amadeus said:
But who knows him so well, this One that names himself as the Truth?

i dont think most believers would much even like the “truth” there

bbyrd009 · May 21, 2022

ScottA said:
There are only two sources, but many speak, some with authority, many without.

ah, well…but how do those in authority speak? Understanding that concept alone would do much imo to get one closer to “truth”

ScottA · May 21, 2022

ScottA said:
There are only two sources, but many speak, some with authority, many without.

bbyrd009 said:
ah, well…but how do those in authority speak? Understanding that concept alone would do much imo to get one closer to “truth”

Jesus spoke with authority, which was distinct by understanding, but also with conviction.

The problem is that those without understanding are apt to turn for or against truth when they hear it; and conviction is only the measure of intentions, an attribute of both those who have authority and also those who lie.

It could be said that "It takes one to know one", or as Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice." But we know that even Israel His chosen did not hear Him.

So then...we are told, "do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1 But notice that it does not say, "test every word." Many during these times lean on the word of scripture as that test--which is good, but only the beginning of "all truth." For Jesus could not even tell every word to His apostles, because even they could not bear it all after spending time with Him who spoke the words of truth. Which He contended with and demonstrated throughout His earthly ministry, saying “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house.” But also clarifying the means by which things would continue, saying of His church, "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." That is "My Father" whom is spirit.

Therefore, Jesus sent "another Helper" the "Spirit of Truth", also known as the "Holy Spirit"...and this is the order of the day, of our times.

Yet there is still the issue of not every spirit being of God. And whether you believe me when I say it or not--this is on purpose, the dividing of the tares from the wheat and the goats from the sheep--this is the harvest.

bbyrd009 · May 21, 2022

ScottA said:
Jesus spoke with authority, which was distinct by understanding, but also with conviction.

The problem is that those without understanding are apt to turn for or against truth when they hear it; and conviction is only the measure of intentions, an attribute of both those who have authority and also those who lie.

It could be said that "It takes one to know one", or as Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice." But we know that even Israel His chosen did not hear Him.

So then...we are told, "do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1 But notice that it does not say, "test every word." Many during these times lean on the word of scripture as that test--which is good, but only the beginning of "all truth." For Jesus could not even tell every word to His apostles, because even they could not bear it all after spending time with Him who spoke the words of truth. Which He contended with and demonstrated throughout His earthly ministry, saying “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house.” But also clarifying the means by which things would continue, saying of His church, "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." That is "My Father" whom is spirit.

Therefore, Jesus sent "another Helper" the "Spirit of Truth", also known as the "Holy Spirit"...and this is the order of the day, of our times.

Yet there is still the issue of not every spirit being of God. And whether you believe me when I say it or not--this is on purpose, the dividing of the tares from the wheat and the goats from the sheep--this is the harvest.

Proverbs 18:17 Lexicon: The first to plead his case seems right, Until another comes and examines him.

Brakelite · May 21, 2022

Qoheleth said:
Were you in public schools?

I was educated throughout by Catholic education. I didn't know what a Bible was until I saw one on my protestant grandmother's book shelf. For some reason it scared me. I was about 14.

Brakelite · May 21, 2022

Qoheleth said:
You're too kind.

No. He was right... Not too kind.

Always refreshing to read such transparent honesty.

Brakelite · May 21, 2022

bbyrd009 said:
ah, well…but how do those in authority speak? Understanding that concept alone would do much imo to get one closer to “truth”

I can think of a very long period in history, continuing to this day, when a number of powerful people in authority are actively trampling truth into the mud.

Wrangler · May 21, 2022

Brakelite said:
I was educated throughout by Catholic education. I didn't know what a Bible was until I saw one on my protestant grandmother's book shelf. For some reason it scared me. I was about 14.

Same here! Except the grandmother part, they were both devout Catholics.

In CCD, we were not taught out of the Bible but a thing of man called a catechism.

ScottA · May 21, 2022

Aunty Jane said:
So my first point of interest is why we find ourselves in this situation in the first place. What really happened in Eden that prompted all that followed for the human race, as well as for the angelic sons of God who also came into the picture later in the biblical record. (Genesis 1-6)

Was God allowing the devil a free hand to prove that he would be the better god and ruler over mankind?
If one of the new humans had chosen to believe this rebel’s lies and had influenced someone else to do so, what were the implications of this abuse of free will for the children they were told to have? How would their decision affect those children being raised by now sinful parents alienated from their Creator? How would it affect other angels who also had free will? What did God offer by way of help?
What outcome was he hoping for? (John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9-10)

Truth?

Truth is--not in the beginning [actually] for this is of God who is without beginning or end, but in the twinkling of an eye, God by the light of Christ fathered the creation of the media of God shining forth as through a prism all that is written into a time, times, and the half of time, which are with men but not with God, both backward to that would-be beginning and forward to that would-be end, in Christ, the Beginning and the End. Wherein freewill was and is until the fullness thereof, which is the extension of God as a king extends his territory and his subjects for his on glory. That darkness should not go or follow, but only the light of truth in Christ. This is the judgement and the doing of God according to His own will.

bbyrd009 · May 21, 2022

Brakelite said:
I can think of a very long period in history, continuing to this day, when a number of powerful people in authority are actively trampling truth into the mud.

…after He has destroyed all rulers, powers, and authority

A Discussion About Truth

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