DID ELIJAH ASCEND TO HEAVEN?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Buzzfruit

New Member
Aug 21, 2011
773
6
0
62
Bronx, New York, U.S.A
DID ELIJAH ASCEND TO HEAVEN?
2Kings 2:1,9-11 – And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. And so it was, when they had crossed over, that Elijah said to Elisha. “Ask what may I do for you, before I am taken away from you.” And Elisha said, “Please let a double portion of your spirit be upon me.” So he said, “You have ask a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if not it shall not be so.” Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
ELIJAH’S LETTER TO THE KING
2Chronicles 21:12-15 – And a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet. saying,
Thus says the Lord God of your father David: because you
have not walked in the way of Jehoshaphat your father, or
in the way of Asa king of Judah, but have walked in the
way of the kings of Israel, and have made Judah and the
inhabitance of Jerusalem to play the harlot like the harlotry
like the house of Ahab, and also have killed your brothers,
those of your father’s household, who were better than
yourself.
behold, the Lord will strike your people with a serous
affliction – your children, your wives, and all your
possessions, and you will become very sick with a disease
of your intestines, until your intestines comes out by
reason of the sickness day by day.
The above is a letter that Elijah wrote to the king sometime after he was taken up to heaven.
Elijah had a habit of being taken up/transported from them by God, so this man was concern for his life that God would take Elijah away after he told the king that Elijah was back and he would be killed if Elijah left.
1 Kings 18:12 (BBE)
[sup]12 [/sup]And straight away, when I have gone from you, the spirit of the Lord will take you away, I have no idea where, so that when I come and give word to Ahab, and he sees you not, he will put me to death: though I, your servant, have been a worshipper of the Lord from my earliest years.
Elijah was not the only man of God that was lifted up from the ground and taken to another place
Acts 8:39 (NKJV)
[sup]39 [/sup]Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.
Apparently this is one of the ways that God use to transport His prophets/messengers possible because the place He wanted them to go the distance was long, or maybe urgent.
All died in faith and did not receive the promise
Hebrews 11:13 (ASV)
[sup]13 [/sup]These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
ONLY JESUS HAS ASCENDED TO THE THIRD HEAVEN
John 3:13No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is the Son of man who is in heaven.
Elijah did ascend to heaven as the Bible said the question is which heaven did he ascend to? The first heaven is the expanse of space that seems to be over the earth like a dome: firmament. The second heaven is the region beyond the earth's atmosphere or beyond the solar system, the place where the stars, Galaxies, solar nebulas are: outer space.And the third is the dwelling place of God, from where He rules over His creation.
There is no dought that Elijah ascended to the first heaven. In other words he was lifted up into the air by a whirlwind and taken to another place on the earth.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
............................
 

Insight

New Member
Aug 7, 2011
1,259
5
0
Dust thou art and dust thou shalt return...only one man never saw corruption.

Insight
 

Insight

New Member
Aug 7, 2011
1,259
5
0
John 3:13No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is the Son of man who is in heaven.
Elijah did ascend to heaven as the Bible said the question is which heaven did he ascend to? The first heaven is the expanse of space that seems to be over the earth like a dome: firmament. The second heaven is the region beyond the earth's atmosphere or beyond the solar system, the place where the stars, Galaxies, solar nebulas are: outer space.And the third is the dwelling place of God, from where He rules over His creation.
There is no dought that Elijah ascended to the first heaven. In other words he was lifted up into the air by a whirlwind and taken to another place on the earth.



Buzz,

1st Heaven = Kingdom of God under Moses - - Isa 65:17,18KJV
2nd Heaven = Kingdom of God under Jesus Christ - - 1 Cor 15:28 & Rev 21:1,2,3,4
3rd Heaven = Kingdom of God under God Himself - - Rev 21:4

Key to this is understanding the phrase "the former things" Isaiah 65:17KJV 1 Cor 15:28KJV Rev 21:4KJV

You will need to read each passage in context and understand how God referred to Israel as "Hear O Heavens" Deut 31:1; Isa 1:2 of course referring to the Rulers and Peoples hearing the Word of the Lord.

All the best with your reading.

Insight



 

Buzzfruit

New Member
Aug 21, 2011
773
6
0
62
Bronx, New York, U.S.A
Buzz,

1st Heaven = Kingdom of God under Moses - - Isa 65:17,18KJV
2nd Heaven = Kingdom of God under Jesus Christ - - 1 Cor 15:28 & Rev 21:1,2,3,4
3rd Heaven = Kingdom of God under God Himself - - Rev 21:4

Key to this is understanding the phrase "the former things" Isaiah 65:17KJV 1 Cor 15:28KJV Rev 21:4KJV

You will need to read each passage in context and understand how God referred to Israel as "Hear O Heavens" Deut 31:1; Isa 1:2 of course referring to the Rulers and Peoples hearing the Word of the Lord.

All the best with your reading.

Insight



[/center]

Not one of those scriptures say what you are claming. When it was in Genesis 1:1 (ASV)
[sup]1 [/sup]In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. What heaves was it refering to? Do you know what the word that is tranlated heaven means?



 

Insight

New Member
Aug 7, 2011
1,259
5
0
Not one of those scriptures say what you are claming. When it was in Genesis 1:1 (ASV)
[sup]1 [/sup]In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. What heaves was it referring to? Do you know what the word that is tranlated heaven means?
Hi Buzz,
Again we come back to better understanding the language of God.

Here is an example:

Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. (Deuteronomy 32:1)

Moses is speaking a message to those who have ears to hear a message. They are styled Heavens & Earth because of their varying positions of authority. The Heavens are considered the rulers over the 12 tribes of Israel; and the Earth is considered the common people. The next verse answers this for you.

My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: (Deuteronomy 32:2)

The content of his message is aimed at people as Deut 31:6 reveals. It would make no sense is Heavens here represented the Angelic host as it was an Angel who gave Moses the message! Same as Rev 1:1 being specifically for us the disciples.

Isaiah 1:2 is another simple example:

Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken (through Isaiah), I have nourished and brought up children (on earth), and they have rebelled against me. (Isaiah 1:2)

Of course the message is not directed at those in the physical Heavens because children are not raised in heaven. Nor can it be directed at the physical earth because both Heaven and Earth do not have ears and cannot hear.

This is commonly understood as being symbolic language.

Heaven = Rulers including Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. See Isaiah 1:1

Earth = Common people of Israel. Isaiah 1:4

So getting back to our original point. When it states a new heaven and a new earth it’s not teaching a recreation of Heaven and Earth, but a new form of governance inthe earth.

Hence the "former things" former political heavens and earth (inhabitants) will pass away bringing in a new era.

Like that of...
  • AD 70 is one such example (Mosaic ended)
  • Armageddon another (Christ reign begins)
  • Time of the end (millennium age – God all in all)

Hope this helps.

Insight
 

Insight

New Member
Aug 7, 2011
1,259
5
0
Not one of those scriptures say what you are claming. When it was in Genesis 1:1 (ASV)
[sup]1 [/sup]In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. What heaves was it refering to? Do you know what the word that is tranlated heaven means?

Buzz,

Literally this is referring to a physical Heavens (starry expanse) and a physical earth. You will note the heaven is put before the earth, because that is the true and natural order.

So one might say that the physical Heavens are symbolic of the Eternal which was before the creation of the earth itself Prov 8:23ESV, but there never was a time when there was no heaven, in the highest sense of God's dwelling place.

Insight
 

Buzzfruit

New Member
Aug 21, 2011
773
6
0
62
Bronx, New York, U.S.A
Hi Buzz,
Again we come back to better understanding the language of God.

Here is an example:

Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. (Deuteronomy 32:1)

Moses is speaking a message to those who have ears to hear a message. They are styled Heavens & Earth because of their varying positions of authority. The Heavens are considered the rulers over the 12 tribes of Israel; and the Earth is considered the common people. The next verse answers this for you.

My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: (Deuteronomy 32:2)

The content of his message is aimed at people as Deut 31:6 reveals. It would make no sense is Heavens here represented the Angelic host as it was an Angel who gave Moses the message! Same as Rev 1:1 being specifically for us the disciples.

Isaiah 1:2 is another simple example:

Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken (through Isaiah), I have nourished and brought up children (on earth), and they have rebelled against me. (Isaiah 1:2)

Of course the message is not directed at those in the physical Heavens because children are not raised in heaven. Nor can it be directed at the physical earth because both Heaven and Earth do not have ears and cannot hear.

This is commonly understood as being symbolic language.

Heaven = Rulers including Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. See Isaiah 1:1

Earth = Common people of Israel. Isaiah 1:4

So getting back to our original point. When it states a new heaven and a new earth it’s not teaching a recreation of Heaven and Earth, but a new form of governance inthe earth.

Hence the "former things" former political heavens and earth (inhabitants) will pass away bringing in a new era.

Like that of...
  • AD 70 is one such example (Mosaic ended)
  • Armageddon another (Christ reign begins)
  • Time of the end (millennium age – God all in all)

Hope this helps.

Insight




Your use of scripture remind me of Herold Camping's. That is all I am going to say.
 

Buzzfruit

New Member
Aug 21, 2011
773
6
0
62
Bronx, New York, U.S.A
Buzz,

Literally this is referring to a physical Heavens (starry expanse) and a physical earth. You will note the heaven is put before the earth, because that is the true and natural order.

So one might say that the physical Heavens are symbolic of the Eternal which was before the creation of the earth itself Prov 8:23ESV, but there never was a time when there was no heaven, in the highest sense of God's dwelling place.

Insight


That is not what Prov. 8: 23 says. It is speaking in a poetic style and it is not referring to Heaven.......nowhere is Heaven even mentioned. If Heaven was not created then Heaven would be God, since only God has always been. You would then have to say that there are four aspects of God....Father, Son, Holy Spirit and Heaven. So since Heaven was created it means it never existed before it was created.
 

Insight

New Member
Aug 7, 2011
1,259
5
0
That is not what Prov. 8: 23 says. It is speaking in a poetic style and it is not referring to Heaven.......nowhere is Heaven even mentioned. If Heaven was not created then Heaven would be God, since only God has always been. You would then have to say that there are four aspects of God....Father, Son, Holy Spirit and Heaven. So since Heaven was created it means it never existed before it was created.


Buzz

You must have miss read my text....read it again carefully.

but there never was a time when there was no heaven, in the highest sense of God's dwelling place.



Poorly stated to mean - Gods Heaven has always been in existence.

Insight

Your use of scripture remind me of Herold Camping's. That is all I am going to say.[/indent]


No Buzz.

It’s really simple once you understand how God uses certain phrases.

Here is another and if you don’t get this one it simply means you are being difficult, for the sake of being contentious. Let’s hope this is not the case.

The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Gen 1:2

I looked on the earth, and behold, it was without form and void; and to the heavens, and they had no light. Jer 4:23

Who does the earth represent?
Who do the heavens represent?

I hope you do not come back and say that God in the heavens has no light!

th_smiley_waiting.gif
 

7angels

Active Member
Aug 13, 2011
624
88
28
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
hi bussfruit

you ask a very good question. are you prepared to hear the answer? it comes from the way you interpret the word.
2Chronicles 21:12-15 is a letter he wrote before he went to heaven. it is a word of wisdom or prophesy that was given elijah that he wrote down and put in the care of another to be delivered at a certain time and place for a specific person. but you need to realize that the letter is already written before Elijah went to heaven.

DID ELIJAH ASCEND TO HEAVEN?

the answer is yes but the big difference is that Elijah was lifted into heaven where Jesus went up into heaven under his own power. Notice how God took Elijah into heaven by a chariot of fire but Jesus rose of his own accord
 

Buzzfruit

New Member
Aug 21, 2011
773
6
0
62
Bronx, New York, U.S.A
hi bussfruit

you ask a very good question. are you prepared to hear the answer?

The question is, are you?



it comes from the way you interpret the word.
2Chronicles 21:12-15 is a letter he wrote before he went to heaven. it is a word of wisdom or prophesy that was given elijah that he wrote down and put in the care of another to be delivered at a certain time and place for a specific person. but you need to realize that the letter is already written before Elijah went to heaven.

DID ELIJAH ASCEND TO HEAVEN?

the answer is yes but the big difference is that Elijah was lifted into heaven where Jesus went up into heaven under his own power. Notice how God took Elijah into heaven by a chariot of fire but Jesus rose of his own accord

Not it’s not......study who was the king living at the time he left and who as the king when he wrote that letter. Regardless of how one enters a place the fact would be they entered. So whether Elijah entered by God's power it would still mean he ascend. The world ascended does not have to mean that that the individual did it on his own power. Question: if you are in a plane that is on the ground and it starts to taxi down the runway, then it speeds up and finally takes off and ascended to 2,000 feet in the air, does it mean that you did not ascend to 2,000 feet?


Greek Strong's Number: 305



Ascended:
Greek Word: ἀναβαίνω
Transliteration: anabainō
Phonetic Pronunciation:<a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/book.asp?pub=0&book=58&wave=G0305">an-ab-ah'ee-no
Root: from <G303> and the base of <G939>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 1:519,90
Part of Speech: v
Vine's Words: Arise, Arose, Arouse, Raise, Rise, Rouse, Climb up, Come, Came, Enter, Entering, Entrance, Grow, Spring

from <G303> (ana) and the base of <G939> (basis); to go up (literal or figurative) :- arise, ascend (up), climb (go, grow, rise, spring) up, come (up).



— Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary

Do you see anywhere it says that the world ascend means that for a person to ascend it mean that person did it under his or her own power?
 

ajdiamond

New Member
Aug 18, 2011
96
15
0
Minnesota
If Heaven was not created then Heaven would be God, since only God has always been. You would then have to say that there are four aspects of God....Father, Son, Holy Spirit and Heaven.

God is love. 1Jo 4:8

What does that do to your trinity of aspects? :ph34r: Or these...

God is light. 1Jo 1:5
God is a consuming fire. Heb 12:29

B)
 

ajdiamond

New Member
Aug 18, 2011
96
15
0
Minnesota
I just liked how you stated this: "If Heaven was not created then Heaven would be God, since only God has always been".

And then when I read your next statement implying there were only three aspects of God, the question arose in me; what about light, love and consuming fire? That had never occurred to me before.

Nevertheless, you seem to have a plan for how this thread should go, so I'll leave you to it. :)

PS. Have you read my OP in the "Take No Thought" thread? Might be apt. :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: ajdiamond

Buzzfruit

New Member
Aug 21, 2011
773
6
0
62
Bronx, New York, U.S.A
I just liked how you stated this: "If Heaven was not created then Heaven would be God, since only God has always been".

And then when I read your next statement implying there were only three aspects of God, the question arose in me; what about light, love and consuming fire? That had never occurred to me before.

Nevertheless, you seem to have a plan for how this thread should go, so I'll leave you to it. :)

I was referring to God's Trinity not about what He is like.
PS. Have you read my OP in the "Take No Thought" thread? Might be apt. :p

I don't see why it would be.......I am not worried about anything.
 

ajdiamond

New Member
Aug 18, 2011
96
15
0
Minnesota
I was referring to God's Trinity not about what He is like.

God is like light? God is like love? No.

God is light,. God is love.

I don't see why it would be.......I am not worried about anything.

That is what you took from that OP? It has to do with predetermining the outcome of thing in your mind beforehand. For example, preplanning a conversation, This is what I will start with and this is what I will respond with and this is how I will finish, with the intent of getting the other to acquiesce to my point of view.

Or, for purposes of this thread, I will make an OP, I have a plan for how this thread should go, and I will stick to the plan of how things should unfold. And if someone, (like I did), posts a comment that is not according to the predetermined plan for the thread, I will get things back on track. Must. Stick. To. The. Plan. (ie. What does this have to do with the OP)

Do you see?
 

Buzzfruit

New Member
Aug 21, 2011
773
6
0
62
Bronx, New York, U.S.A
God is like light? God is like love? No.

God is light,. God is love.



That is what you took from that OP? It has to do with predetermining the outcome of thing in your mind beforehand. For example, preplanning a conversation, This is what I will start with and this is what I will respond with and this is how I will finish, with the intent of getting the other to acquiesce to my point of view.

Or, for purposes of this thread, I will make an OP, I have a plan for how this thread should go, and I will stick to the plan of how things should unfold. And if someone, (like I did), posts a comment that is not according to the predetermined plan for the thread, I will get things back on track. Must. Stick. To. The. Plan. (ie. What does this have to do with the OP)

Do you see?

I stick to my conviction from what I have studied in the Bible. I am willing to discuss it, but in the end that does not mean I am going to believe what some else says just becase they are convice that they are correct. I try to avoide too an long arument since in the end it leads to nothing.