The Insanity of the "right" to have guns!

Bible Highlighter said:

Then my friend. If you believe that all things work together for good to those who love God (Romans 8:28), then the scenario you describe does not exist for such a believer or if they are faced with a challenging life situation with violent men, then God has a greater plan for good in it that we cannot see. But all things work for good to those who love God so no gun is needed. Christians were beaten and stoned. They did not fight back with swords. Read the New Testament, my friend. You will read all about how Christians were persecuted and not about how they fought back.

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I know about all of that, still it isn't against the Bible for self defense, God nor Jesus wouldn't want us to just sit back and allow ourselves or family to be killed.

If I have a gun on me and someone is going to break into my house and do harm to me or my family, or anywhere else they are getting one right between the eyes.

I will not stand there believing that God would not want me to defend my family or myself and allow this criminal time to harm us, I'll drop him where he or she stands.

Jim B said:

USCCA or God's word?

I can't believe that anyone in their right mind is still repeating this nonsense.

What did Jesus say about loving your neighbor and turning the other cheek?

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USCCA is correct that gun control does not apply to criminals. They are not law abiding citizens. It's not nonsense. We are to love our neighbor as ourself, yet what if our neighbor sets out to rob, rape or kill a family member? We are to sit back, watch it happen and do nothing? There is quite a difference between slapping someone across the face and turning the other cheek and someone threatening your life or the life of your wife or children with a deadly weapon. Self-defense is a biblical option in such cases.

Even in the OT in Exodus 22:2, we read - "If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed."

in 1 Samuel 25:13, we read - Then David said to his men, "Every man gird on his sword." So every man girded on his sword, and David also girded on his sword. And about four hundred men went with David, and two hundred stayed with the supplies. So, each man had a sword ready to be holstered and used when required.

And in Psalm 144:1, David wrote: "Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle..."

In Luke 11:21, we read - "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe." A fully armed strong man is a deterrent to a thief. It’s the strong man who is armed that protects against a thief from being harmed. Another strong man will think twice about ever trying to rob or harm someone who is armed. Jesus would expect us to protect ourself and our family from harm.

In Luke 22:36, we read - Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. In verse 38, we read - So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”

Ecclesiastes 3:1 - To everything there is a season,
A time for every purpose under heaven:

A time to be born,
And a time to die;
A time to plant,
And a time to pluck what is planted;
3 A time to kill,
And a time to heal;
A time to break down,
And a time to build up;
4 A time to weep,
And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
And a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones,
And a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace,
And a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to gain,
And a time to lose;
A time to keep,
And a time to throw away;
7 A time to tear,
And a time to sew;
A time to keep silence,
And a time to speak;
8 A time to love,
And a time to hate;
A time of war,
And a time of peace.

A time to kill - namely, judicially, criminals; or in war, self-defense; not in malice or revenge.

mailmandan said:

USCCA is correct that gun control does not apply to criminals. They are not law abiding citizens. It's not nonsense. We are to love our neighbor as ourself, yet what if our neighbor sets out to rob, rape or kill a family member? We are to sit back, watch it happen and do nothing? There is quite a difference between slapping someone across the face and turning the other cheek and someone threatening your life or the life of your wife or children with a deadly weapon. Self-defense is a biblical option in such cases.

Even in the OT in Exodus 22:2, we read - "If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed."

in 1 Samuel 25:13, we read - Then David said to his men, "Every man gird on his sword." So every man girded on his sword, and David also girded on his sword. And about four hundred men went with David, and two hundred stayed with the supplies. So, each man had a sword ready to be holstered and used when required.

And in Psalm 144:1, David wrote: "Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle..."

In Luke 11:21, we read - "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe." A fully armed strong man is a deterrent to a thief. It’s the strong man who is armed that protects against a thief from being harmed. Another strong man will think twice about ever trying to rob or harm someone who is armed. Jesus would expect us to protect ourself and our family from harm.

In Luke 22:36, we read - Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. In verse 38, we read - So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”

Ecclesiastes 3:1 - To everything there is a season,
A time for every purpose under heaven:

A time to be born,
And a time to die;
A time to plant,
And a time to pluck what is planted;
3 A time to kill,
And a time to heal;
A time to break down,
And a time to build up;
4 A time to weep,
And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
And a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones,
And a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace,
And a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to gain,
And a time to lose;
A time to keep,
And a time to throw away;
7 A time to tear,
And a time to sew;
A time to keep silence,
And a time to speak;
8 A time to love,
And a time to hate;
A time of war,
And a time of peace.

A time to kill - namely, judicially, criminals; or in war, self-defense; not in malice or revenge.

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a) Creating doctrine from the OT for Christians is nonsense. Have you slaughtered any sheep recently?

b) Quoting the NT out of context can create false doctrine. Here is Luke 11:17-23 in context...

But Jesus, realizing their thoughts, said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is destroyed, and a divided household falls. So if Satan too is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? I ask you this because you claim that I cast out demons by Beelzebul. Now if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you. When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his possessions are safe. But when a stronger man attacks and conquers him, he takes away the first man’s armor on which the man relied and divides up his plunder. Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters."

Jesus is clearly talking about spiritual warfare. Claiming this relates to the use of guns is madness.

They gonna fuel the fire my friends .
And when the few do uprise , they will say , SEE WE TOLD YA they were dangerous
and then slam home the one true plan they had all along . ROUND EVERYTHING UP that conforms not .

Jim B said:

a) Creating doctrine from the OT for Christians is nonsense. Have you slaughtered any sheep recently?

b) Quoting the NT out of context can create false doctrine. Here is Luke 11:17-23 in context...

But Jesus, realizing their thoughts, said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is destroyed, and a divided household falls. So if Satan too is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? I ask you this because you claim that I cast out demons by Beelzebul. Now if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you. When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his possessions are safe. But when a stronger man attacks and conquers him, he takes away the first man’s armor on which the man relied and divides up his plunder. Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters."

Jesus is clearly talking about spiritual warfare. Claiming this relates to the use of guns is madness.

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We disagree and you ignored the rest of my post.

amigo de christo said:

They gonna fuel the fire my friends .
And when the few do uprise , they will say , SEE WE TOLD YA they were dangerous
and then slam home the one true plan they had all along . ROUND EVERYTHING UP that conforms not .

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We know it's coming and I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees!

Welcome to AMERIKA RISING . This cannot be stopped . It will run its course
and it will infect the sold out churches to the point they will spy out men like me , who would not harm a fly ,
making us all seem dangerous . IT cant and it wont be stopped . THE PERSECUTION OF THE TRUE LAMBS IS COMING and all
was foretold that it would . All we can do is conform not to the lies , stand firm on the truth of Christ ,
win souls , forgive those who hate and persecute us and endure faithful unto the end . BUT KNOW THIS
On the day of the LORD the lambs will sing , but not the world who rejected Christ . THUS
we must win souls quickly , while there be time to do so . For we desire not the death of even those who hate us .
But they WILL HATE US and see us as dangerous .

mailmandan said:

I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. We all know it's coming!

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I had rather live on knees in submission to CHRIST having true freedom IN HIM , than to pick up arms and kill even those who hate me .
WE in the business of winning souls my friend . IN THIS LIFE YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATIONS
but dont forget to pray for those who do persecute you . Just never conform to their ways .

@amigo de christo

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.” (Ephesians 6:12-13)

amigo de christo said:

Welcome to AMERIKA RISING . This cannot be stopped . It will run its course
and it will infect the sold out churches to the point they will spy out men like me , who would not harm a fly ,
making us all seem dangerous . IT cant and it wont be stopped . THE PERSECUTION OF THE TRUE LAMBS IS COMING and all
was foretold that it would . All we can do is conform not to the lies , stand firm on the truth of Christ ,
win souls , forgive those who hate and persecute us and endure faithful unto the end . BUT KNOW THIS
On the day of the LORD the lambs will sing , but not the world who rejected Christ . THUS
we must win souls quickly , while there be time to do so . For we desire not the death of even those who hate us .
But they WILL HATE US and see us as dangerous .

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Reminds me of the passage in Isaiah 5:20 - Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

mailmandan said:

We know it's coming and I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees!

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Yeah no kneeling before the beast system . We kneel only before GOD and any law that contradicts GOD
WE will not honor it . NOT ONCE . but rather we will simply expose the lies , speaking truth to all .

Michiah-Imla said:

@amigo de christo

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.” (Ephesians 6:12-13)

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Yes indeed . STRAP ON THE WHOLE ARMOUR OF GOD . WHICH is SPIRITUAL . What we dont do is strap on bombs
and AK forty sevens and start uprising . We simply preach CHRIST , we forgive those who do persecute us
but we never conform to their ways . And if one hears not , move on and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them .
FOR what i say to one i say to all , THOSE who deny CHRIST , IT will be far better for SODOM than for them on the day of judgment .
THAT is a fact JESUS says HIMSELF . WE MUST NEVER set aside that one true gospel for the lie of the all inclusive go spell they preach n teach today .

amigo de christo said:

I had rather live on knees in submission to CHRIST having true freedom IN HIM , than to pick up arms and kill even those who hate me . WE in the business of winning souls my friend . IN THIS LIFE YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATIONS but dont forget to pray for those who do persecute you . Just never conform to their ways .

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Submission to Christ doesn't mean be a coward and never defend yourself or others. Win souls and pray for those who persecute you, yes.

amigo de christo said:

Yeah no kneeling before the beast system . We kneel only before GOD and any law that contradicts GOD
WE will not honor it . NOT ONCE . but rather we will simply expose the lies , speaking truth to all .

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Amen to that!

mailmandan said:

Submission to Christ doesn't mean be a coward and never defend yourself or others. Win souls and pray for those who persecute you, yes.

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This is testimony of our Lord:

“He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.” (Matthew 12:19-21)

And we should walk as he did:

“He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” (1 John 2:6)

mailmandan said:

Reminds me of the passage in Isaiah 5:20 - Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

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that is exactly what this geneartion has done .
This is a war , with only TWO SIDES my friend .
Its not truly liberal verses conservative
nor democrat verses republican ,
Its simply DARKNESS verses light .
For even the fememinst movement , EVIL as it is , WONT SPEAK A WORD against the agenda of the greater darkness .
THEY say nothing about a biological male beating all those biological women at swimming .
FOR DARKNESS LOVETH DARKNESS and wont speak against the darkness .
SEE this was and is truly about ONE THING . THEY HATE GOD . THEY want their own MORALITY that sayeth I SHALL LIVE AS I DEEM FIT ,
AND NOT HOW GOD says too . THIS WAR is bigger than folks realize . IT is the world verses GOD , CHRIST
AND those who are TRULY OF HIM . THEY want to eradicate any reminder of GOD which pricks their conscious and exposes their evil .
THEY Want no conscious , no reminder of GOD . THEY want to simply live and do evil and have no sorrow doing it .

amigo de christo said:

that is exactly what this geneartion has done .
This is a war , with only TWO SIDES my friend .
Its not truly liberal verses conservative
nor democrat verses republican ,
Its simply DARKNESS verses light .
For even the fememinst movement , EVIL as it is , WONT SPEAK A WORD against the agenda of the greater darkness .
THEY say nothing about a biological male beating all those biological women at swimming .
FOR DARKNESS LOVETH DARKNESS and wont speak against the darkness .
SEE this was and is truly about ONE THING . THEY HATE GOD . THEY want their own MORALITY that sayeth I SHALL LIVE AS I DEEM FIT ,
AND NOT HOW GOD says too . THIS WAR is bigger than folks realize . IT is the world verses GOD , CHRIST
AND those who are TRULY OF HIM . THEY want to eradicate any reminder of GOD which pricks their conscious and exposes their evil .
THEY Want no conscious , no reminder of GOD . THEY want to simply live and do evil and have no sorrow doing it .

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Proverbs 8:36 - but he who fails to find me injures himself; all who hate me love death.

mailmandan said:

Submission to Christ doesn't mean be a coward and never defend yourself or others. Win souls and pray for those who persecute you, yes.

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Did stephen defend himself . NOPE . He even said LORD FORGIVE THEM THIS SIN .
GOD decides when i die . Not man . IN other words if my time is not up an entire army could come agaisnst me
and still i would find a way of escape . GOD will not allow men to take my life , UNTIL , UNTIL HE has decided
its time for me to come home . MANY of us will die , but fear that not . Many of us will suffer , but worry not .
FOR GOD IS WITH THE LAMBS . And whatever HE allows to come against US , HE WORKS it for the good of the lambs .
EVEN our faith will grow . AND as i said , WHEN my time is up , HE TAKES ME HOME to be FOREVER WITH HIM .
WHICH I MIGHT ADD Is FAR , FAR BETTER THAN HERE ON THIS OL EARTH .
BUT whether i live till HE COMES or whether i die before hand , ITS LET THE WILL OF GOD BE DONE
and may souls be won and i pray even for those who would or will harm me or kill me . May they be forgiven
and i pray a blessing upon them . AND THAT blessing is this , MAY THEY COME TO THE SAVING KNOWLEDGE of CHRIST
before they die or BEFORE HE DOES COME . cause its too late on that day .
And believe me , IF GOD sent grace to a man as wicked as i , HOW can i not pray for them to be saved in CHRIST as well .
AND if GOD sent grace to paul , WHO PUT christains to death , HOW can we not pray the same for our enemies too .
BUT if they reject CHRIST , THE LAKE OF FIRE AWAITS . SO lets get busy pointing to JESUS while there still be time to do so .
CAUSE in a day an a hour that no man knows , YET WE SEE APPROACHING , COMETH THE LORD . On that day
ITS TOO LATE . EITHER ONE KNEW HIM and will be forever with HIM , OR THEY GO UNDER WRATH .

Jim B said:

Creating doctrine from the OT for Christians is nonsense.

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Every doctrine Christ taught was from the Old Testament. It was His Bible. It was life to Him.

JohnPaul said:

I know about all of that, still it isn't against the Bible for self defense, God nor Jesus wouldn't want us to just sit back and allow ourselves or family to be killed.

If I have a gun on me and someone is going to break into my house and do harm to me or my family, or anywhere else they are getting one right between the eyes.

I will not stand there believing that God would not want me to defend my family or myself and allow this criminal time to harm us, I'll drop him where he or she stands.

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If you believe Romans 8:28 then nothing that is not ordained by God cannot happen to you that you deem is unjust or not in God’s plan. That’s what you don’t understand. You prefer your gun over the reality of Romans 8:28 and Psalms 91:10-12.

In other words: You need a gun because you don’t truly believe all things work together for good to those who love God according to Romans 8:28 because you think evil situations that are unjust will befall you outside of God’s greater plan for good for you life (or whereby ALL things work together for good for your life).

In other words: You need a gun because you don’t think God’s angels can truly protect you from unjust or senseless evil situations according to Psalms 91:10-12.

So I see that you trust your gun more than you do these Scripture verses.
But I would rather trust God and His Word and even die than trust in a gun; Especially when the Lord Jesus and His followers clearly taught Non-Violence.

Death is no accident. God is the giver and taker of life (Job 1:21).
Anything that happens in a believer’s life is no accident.
God is in control if they truly love God.
All things work together for good to those who love God.
Are you loving God? Then any silly scenario you come up with is not possible unless it was a part of God’s greater plan for good for your life.
But you want to control the situation. But you can’t. You could die by a bad driver. Your time is up when it is up (unless God grants you a longer life by prayer as he did with Hezekiah).

Would you rather die slowly in a nursing home?
Or would you rather potentially die more quickly by preaching the gospel in a hostile territory? Granted, I would prefer to be raptured, but if I had a choice. I would rather die more quickly than die slowly in a nursing home.

Besides, it really does not matter what you believe here. It’s about what the Bible says. You will be hard pressed to find any solid verse or passage that is 100% clear proof that a Christian can defend themselves using Violence in the pages of the New Testament. For such a verse or passage does not exist. But what you will find in the New Testament from Jesus and His followers is a constant teaching on Non-Violence. But the problem is that when you run into these verses you either need to explain them away or you need to ignore them.

But go ahead and trust in your gun if that makes you feel better.
I know the Lord GOD Almighty (the maker of the Heavens and the Earth) can protect me from any harm. For God can make a bee to fly down a person’s throat and choke him, or He could simply stop their heart. With God, nothing is impossible.