What is the Soul?

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veteran

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Let's do a recount:

By Buzzfruit:
Flesh and blood will not. But the body we will inherit will be flesh and bones only......no blood.

It will be a spiritual body.

A spiritual body is not the same as saying a spirit body......there is no such this as a spirit body.

It won't just appare as if it is flesh.....it will be, but it will be a glorified flesh.

Well either the New body is flesh and bones or it is not. I see no reason for a body be a type of flesh(whatever that means) but not be

Jesus on the other hand was born as a human being and therefore He is a human being in addition to being God. So since He became one of us He has a real physical body, only that it is a glorified body.

Those are indirect relationships drawn between the flesh body of today and a flesh and bones type body as the "glorified body", or resurrection body.

In one of your statements, you even said, "It is a spiritual body", and then turned right around and later said there is no such thing as a spirit body.

All that reveals you're still confused as to what type of body the resurrection is which Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. So I have not twisted anything, but only tried to make sense out of your confusion on the subject.
 

n2thelight

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Angles don't have bodies.......that is why they are called spirits; they only appear in a form that we can relate to but that is not what they are really like. Jesus on the other hand was born as a human being and therefore He is a human being in addition to being God. So since He became one of us He has a real physical body, only that it is a glorified body.


Angels do have bodies

Genesis 19:1 "And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground."

Genesis 19:3 "And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat."


Notice,they even ate.......

The soul is us,before we were made flesh,had satan not rebelled we would not have been,we would have stayed as we were....

The below is just after God created the earth

Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


We don't have a soul,we are a soul,we have a body,once we die,this flesh body will never be used again!!!
 

aspen

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spirit + body = soul
 

Buzzfruit

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spirit + body = soul


Unfortunately it not that simple. Some parts of the Bible the translators used the word soul for spirit as well. And even the word for body has been translated as soul. This is one reason why you can't just read the Bible just like a book......you have to study it and go to the Greek and Hebrew Concordance to get a better understanding.
 

Insight

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Unfortunately it not that simple. Some parts of the Bible the translators used the word soul for spirit as well. And even the word for body has been translated as soul. This is one reason why you can't just read the Bible just like a book......you have to study it and go to the Greek and Hebrew Concordance to get a better understanding.

Buzz,

We might not agree on some things, but these words should be heeded by all those who consider themselve disciples of Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 3:15

Insight
 

aspen

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the fact is, those who believe that the soul is the spirit are neo-platonists - not Christians. The soul in Christian doctrine is spirit+body=soul
 

Insight

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the fact is, those who believe that the soul is the spirit are neo-platonists - not Christians. The soul in Christian doctrine is spirit+body=soul

Aspen,

Would you mind defining your understanding of Spirit?

Insight
 

Buzzfruit

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the fact is, those who believe that the soul is the spirit are neo-platonists - not Christians. The soul in Christian doctrine is spirit+body=soul

In the Old Testament the word soul refers to the body....flesh. Which even an animal is called a soul.

The soul that sin it will die

Ezekiel 18:20 (KJV)
[sup]20 [/sup]The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


Hebrew Strong's Number: 5315

Soul
Hebrew Word: ‏נֶפֶשׁ‎
Transliteration: nepesh
Phonetic Pronunciation: <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/book.asp?pub=0&book=58&wave=H5315">neh'-fesh
Root: from <H5314>
Cross Reference: TWOT - 1395a
Part of Speech: n f
Vine's Words: None

from <H5314> (naphash); properly a breathing creature, i.e. animalor (abstract) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental) :- any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, × dead (-ly), desire, × [dis-] contented, × fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, × jeopardy of) life (× in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (× she) will, × would have it.

Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary

So from the Hebrew definition of the world soul it would includes animals as well because animals have a body....they are flesh just as we are......they are nepesh.....breathing creature.
 

veteran

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How long will folks be confused about this?

Christ said...

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
(KJV)

In that verse our Lord Jesus said don't fear them which kill the body, so what body is that? That's the flesh body. But what part is that He said they are not able to kill? The "soul", which is Greek 'psuche'.


The Greek word for "soul" is 'psuche', and means 'breath'.

The Greek word 'pneuma' which is also used for 'spirit' means 'breath' too. Both psuche and pneuma are often confused with each other, like in Luke 9:24 with 'psuche' used in the life of the flesh body sense vs. a heavenly part separate from the flesh that only God can kill called soul in the above Matt.10:28 verse.


From Vine's Word Studies...

SOUL

"Body and soul are the constituents of the man according to <Matt. 6:25; 10:28; Luke 12:20; Acts 20:10>; body and spirit according to <Luke 8:55; 1 Cor. 5:3; 7:34; Jas. 2:26>. In <Matt. 26:38> the emotions are associated with the soul, in <John 13:21> with the spirit; cf. also <Ps. 42:11> with <1 Kings 21:5>. In <Ps. 35:9> the soul rejoices in God, in <Luke 1:47> the spirit.
"Apparently, then, the relationships may be thus summed up `Soma, body, and pneuma, spirit, may be separated, pneuma and psuche, soul, can only be distinguished' (Cremer)."

From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine pp. 205-207.
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)
(Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

The part Vine quotes, "pneuma and psuche, soul, can only be distinguished," is interesting. That's about the part in Matt.10:28 our Lord Jesus said that only God can destroy. And as Vine's quotes about 'soma' (body) and 'pneuma' (spirit) they can be separated from each other, and that happens at flesh death.

This is what I've been saying all along in several threads. We each have 3 parts; our flesh body, our spirit, and our soul. Our flesh body is of one order, but our spirit and soul are of another order.

Our flesh body can be separated from our spirit with soul. But... our spirit with soul cannot be separated from each other, but only 'distinguished' by God (in the "lake of fire" - the "second death").


This is what Apostle Paul was talking about in 1 Cor.15 about 2 distinct and separate operations...

"corruption" (flesh body) must put on "incorruption" (spiritual BODY), AND...
"this mortal" (still liable to die soul) must put on "immortality" (soul in eternal life through Christ Jesus)

In the heavenly, our spirit part is our "image of the heavenly", what Paul also called "a spiritual body". But our soul that is joined with our spirit is our personality. Per Vines about Matt.26:38, our emotions are associated with our soul, and per John 13:21 with our spirit. Thus our spirit and soul are interconnected, can't be separated from each other.

For our time with the "image of the earthy", our spirit with soul has a flesh body. But once our flesh body dies, our spirit with soul is manifested in the heavenly dimension with the "image of the heavenly". So whether here or there, 'we' need an image body to manifest with. This is why Paul also said that if our tabernacle of flesh were dissolved, we also have a house not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens (2 Cor.5).

This is also what our Lord Jesus was teaching in John 3, when He said that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. That's two separate and distinct orders and operations. This is why He also compared spirit to invisible wind. He used wind as a metaphor for the "breath of life" from God. That's why both Greek pneuma and psuche are defined as the 'breath' in man. It enters and leaves with the 'breath'.
 

Buzzfruit

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Angels do have bodies

Genesis 19:1 "And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground."

Genesis 19:3 "And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat."


Notice,they even ate.......

The soul is us,before we were made flesh,had satan not rebelled we would not have been,we would have stayed as we were....

The below is just after God created the earth

Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?



We don't have a soul,we are a soul,we have a body,once we die,this flesh body will never be used again!!!



In order for human beings to be able to relate to spirit it must take some human form but that does not mean that is how they look in their natural form.
 

veteran

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In order for human beings to be able to relate to spirit it must take some human form but that does not mean that is how they look in their natural form.


That would be like saying that in order for 'spirit' to manifest and operate it requires a flesh body. It goes directly against what our Lord Jesus said about that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. It would also require that the angels have flesh bodies, but they do not.
 

logabe

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The soul is the focal point of the problem of sin. The soul is the
natural mind, or carnal mind, which we received as part of our
inheritance from Adam. It is thus also the seat of death, or mortality.

The spirit has a mind, just as the soul has a mind. They each have
their own consciousness, capable of thought. The soul's mind dies
with the brain, because it is “fleshly,” and is therefore brain-dependent.

Intellect is not evil in itself, but yet its tendency since Adam's sin has
been to dominate or overrule the spirit when it does not understand
the ways of the spirit. The soul tends to believe its perceptions, which
are based upon its own limited experience and education. The soul
mistrusts the spirit, because the spirit lives by divine revelation that
is outside of soul's earthly experience.

The ideal, however, is for the soul to subject itself to the leading
of the spirit (and therefore the Holy Spirit as well), for that is true Faith.
Faith is not devoid of intellectual activity, nor yet of physical things.
True Faith merely subordinates these things to the divine revelation
of the spirit. Body and soul then become the willing servants of the
spirit, saying “Amen” to all that the spirit reveals and leads them to do.

The difficulty in this, of course, is in the fact that people have a hard
time distinguishing between the soul and the spirit.


Logabe
 

Buzzfruit

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The soul is the focal point of the problem of sin. The soul is the
natural mind, or carnal mind, which we received as part of our
inheritance from Adam. It is thus also the seat of death, or mortality.

The spirit has a mind, just as the soul has a mind. They each have
their own consciousness, capable of thought. The soul's mind dies
with the brain, because it is “fleshly,” and is therefore brain-dependent.

Intellect is not evil in itself, but yet its tendency since Adam's sin has
been to dominate or overrule the spirit when it does not understand
the ways of the spirit. The soul tends to believe its perceptions, which
are based upon its own limited experience and education. The soul
mistrusts the spirit, because the spirit lives by divine revelation that
is outside of soul's earthly experience.

The ideal, however, is for the soul to subject itself to the leading
of the spirit (and therefore the Holy Spirit as well), for that is true Faith.
Faith is not devoid of intellectual activity, nor yet of physical things.
True Faith merely subordinates these things to the divine revelation
of the spirit. Body and soul then become the willing servants of the
spirit, saying “Amen” to all that the spirit reveals and leads them to do.

The difficulty in this, of course, is in the fact that people have a hard
time distinguishing between the soul and the spirit.


Logabe

Where did you get all that you are saying from?
 

Insight

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The soul is the focal point of the problem of sin. The soul is the
natural mind, or carnal mind, which we received as part of our
inheritance from Adam. It is thus also the seat of death, or mortality.

This is true according to the scriptures. "A soul that sins will die"

The spirit has a mind, just as the soul has a mind. They each have
their own consciousness, capable of thought. The soul's mind dies
with the brain, because it is “fleshly,” and is therefore brain-dependent.

Intellect is not evil in itself, but yet its tendency since Adam's sin has
been to dominate or overrule the spirit when it does not understand
the ways of the spirit. The soul tends to believe its perceptions, which
are based upon its own limited experience and education. The soul
mistrusts the spirit, because the spirit lives by divine revelation that
is outside of soul's earthly experience.

Yes another truth.

There can be only two minds i.e one carnal and one spirit.

Every human is in possession of the carnal but not every person has the mind of Christ dwelling in them. "Let this mind be in you that was in Chriist Jesus"

'The carnal mind is enmity against God. It is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be' (Rom 8:7).

Illustrations of both:

Cain illustrates the carnal mind, at enmity with God and with a religion of its own (Gen 4:1-16; 1Jo 3:12; Jud 1:11).

Abel illustrates the spiritual mind, which discerns the value of shed blood (Gen 4:4; Heb 9:22; 11:4).

The ideal, however, is for the soul to subject itself to the leading
of the spirit (and therefore the Holy Spirit as well), for that is true Faith.
Faith is not devoid of intellectual activity, nor yet of physical things.
True Faith merely subordinates these things to the divine revelation
of the spirit. Body and soul then become the willing servants of the
spirit, saying “Amen” to all that the spirit reveals and leads them to do.

The carnal mind must be crucified and its passions before the body can be led by the Spirit Mind as demonstrated by Jesus. Eve & Adam failed to heed the mind of the Spirit in them and rather chose the carnal mind and its three lusts.

Adam a living creature (who is animal = soul) illustrates human nature; and what we are we have inherited from him (See 1 Co 15:47,48; Rom 5:12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19).

The difficulty in this, of course, is in the fact that people have a hard
time distinguishing between the soul and the spirit.


Logabe

Logabe, I would need further clarification on some of those above points but it appears you appreciate the soul is NOT immortal nor indeed can be. The only immortal substance man can possess is the implanted Word from above, which can only make alive through resurrection, judgment and changing this vile body to be clothed with immortality.

If a Christian cannot understand the true nature of the soul they have no truth in them and are unable to understand the atonement and its power.

Thanks

Insight
 

Insight

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Hi Logabe.

Bible formula for natual mortal life of all living creatures:

Dust + Breath of Life = A Living Soul (creature) Gen 2:7

Dust

That man in his death returns to dust is exactly what God tells Adam in Genesis 3:19,

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." Also see Genesis 18:27

Breath of Life

"neshema chay" which is also termed the spirit or "ruach" of God (see Genesis 7:15,22). The breath or spirit of life is what gives life and therefore we find that when the scriptures speak of death it is when the breath or spirit of God is taken away.

Job 34:14-15 "If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit (RUACH) and his breath (NESHEMA);All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust."

Psalms 104:29 "Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath (RUACH), they die, and return to their dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (RUACH) shall return unto God who gave it."

Living Soul

"nephesh chay" its first usage of the word is applied to animals in Genesis 1:20,21,

"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life (CHAY), and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.And God created great whales, and every living creature (NEPHESH CHAY) that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

Also in Genesis 1:27 and 2:19. Man and beast have something in common; the breath or spirit (see Gen. 7:21,22) which makes them a living soul.

Once we know this then the verse in Ecclesiates 3:18,19,20 becomes very clear,

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath (RUACH); so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again."

Enjoy
yo.gif
 

logabe

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1[sup]st[/sup] Corth. 15:32 says,

32 If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus,
what does it profit me?

Paul wasn’t actually fighting with lions, tigers, and bears, but he was fighting
with carnally minded men that didn’t understand the Truth.

In 2[sup]nd[/sup] Peter 2:12,

12 But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of
instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no
knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be
destroyed,

Peter refers to them as unreasoning animals as you have said Insight. Paul
and Peter used that analogy in both cases knowing they were dealing with
carnal minded men who had no real knowledge of the Spirit of God.

In Isa. 53:10 & 12,

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He hath put Him to
grief; when thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin, He
shall see His seed. . .
12 because He hath poured out His soul unto death.”

The concept of the soul of the Sacrifice dying on behalf of OUR souls is found
in Leviticus 17:11-14. There we are told that the soul (Heb. nephesh) is in the
blood, and God has given the blood for an atonement for our souls. That was
why men were not to drink blood, but to pour it out upon the ground. And so,
Jesus “poured out His soul unto death” (Isaiah 53:12). Physically, it was the
blood that was poured upon the ground, but the blood represented the soul
being poured out.

Where does the soul go after death? I believe that the soul, like the body,
returns to its state before creation. The body returns to dust, but the soul did
not exist or have a consciousness prior to the moment God breathed the
breath of life into Adam's nostrils. Hence, the soul ceases to exist as such
after death. This does not mean that it is impossible for God to bring the
soul back into conscious existence. Acts 2:25-27 says of Christ,

25 For David says of Him [Christ] . . .
27 Because Thou wilt not abandon My soul to Hades,
nor allow Thy Holy One to undergo decay.

Christ's soul was in Hades, but not abandoned there. In other words, He
was raised from the dead. This makes it clear that the soul goes to Hades
at death. That is described in terms of sleep, and it certainly is not a place
of torment.

Logabe
 

Insight

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1[sup]st[/sup] Corth. 15:32 says,

32 If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus,
what does it profit me?

Paul wasn’t actually fighting with lions, tigers, and bears, but he was fighting
with carnally minded men that didn’t understand the Truth.

In 2[sup]nd[/sup] Peter 2:12,

12 But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of
instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no
knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be
destroyed,

Peter refers to them as unreasoning animals as you have said Insight. Paul
and Peter used that analogy in both cases knowing they were dealing with
carnal minded men who had no real knowledge of the Spirit of God.

In Isa. 53:10 & 12,

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He hath put Him to
grief; when thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin, He
shall see His seed. . .
12 because He hath poured out His soul unto death.”

The concept of the soul of the Sacrifice dying on behalf of OUR souls is found
in Leviticus 17:11-14. There we are told that the soul (Heb. nephesh) is in the
blood, and God has given the blood for an atonement for our souls. That was
why men were not to drink blood, but to pour it out upon the ground. And so,
Jesus “poured out His soul unto death” (Isaiah 53:12). Physically, it was the
blood that was poured upon the ground, but the blood represented the soul
being poured out.

Where does the soul go after death? I believe that the soul, like the body,
returns to its state before creation. The body returns to dust, but the soul did
not exist or have a consciousness prior to the moment God breathed the
breath of life into Adam's nostrils. Hence, the soul ceases to exist as such
after death. This does not mean that it is impossible for God to bring the
soul back into conscious existence. Acts 2:25-27 says of Christ,

25 For David says of Him [Christ] . . .
27 Because Thou wilt not abandon My soul to Hades,
nor allow Thy Holy One to undergo decay.

Christ's soul was in Hades, but not abandoned there. In other words, He
was raised from the dead. This makes it clear that the soul goes to Hades
at death. That is described in terms of sleep, and it certainly is not a place
of torment.

Logabe

True
 

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Lots and lots of studied explanations, observations and ideology here.

It is all rather odd when you take this wealth of information to the heathen. They honestly don't know what to do with it.
Metaphysical matters confuse them no end.
On the one hand they claim some sort of semi-divine right to orchestrate their own fate while simultaneously stating that humanity is nothing but a bunch of glorified apes.

Actually apes and other 'lower' life forms have better manners. For one thing they don't kill each other for fun and profit. But I digress.

If one establishes a non-corporeal component to human existance, some sort of behavioral responsibility is created by default. Because the nature of the spirit is eternal, it therefore follows that the consequence of human behavior being partly spiritual also has eternal consequences.

But modern man, being more intelligent and moral than the ape*, has chosen to throw out the whole idea and deny a major component of his own psyche. That's either very enlightened or very stupid.

(*) Given a choice between a bananna and an automatic weapon, which do you think the ape will pick up?
And we call them dumb animals......
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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In order for human beings to be able to relate to spirit it must take some human form but that does not mean that is how they look in their natural form.
ummmm... Have you not heard of the "new" glorified body that will be given to all who are saved?