Condemnation is Only for the Confused Non- OSAS Crowd

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Episkopos

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Then some human effort or initiative is required to access this power?

I'm (probably) okay with that, but some of my more reformed brethren will not be.

Not an outward religious effort. It is a determination of the will by faith that seeks God in a full surrender. Once we let go our outward defenses...and our religious justifications...we are free to ask, seek, and knock until we receive grace from the Lord.

The effort to seek God comes from an inward desire to know God...and be known of God. We cry out to Him in our distress. That is not human effort...but an inner effort from within the shackles of our humanity. :)
 

ScottA

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This is not what logic dictates. All those in Noah's Ark will be saved. If someone left the ark when the float waters came, too bad for them; they are not saved because they were once in the ark, for in the moment of truth, they were out of the ark. This is what logic dictates.

The definition of "in" that you are asserting is that once in, no one can ever get out OR they were never in to begin with. This is most illogical. See Post Hoc.
That explanation is out of context.

The context of salvation is not one that a person can walk out of. Who can walk out of eternity? No one except Christ. This is the correct context and definition.

If it is no longer the person who lives, but Christ who lives in them...the logic that you have just presented would mean Jesus could give up His eternal life, for it would be Him walking out of the eternity that He Himself made eternal by His own life. In which there is no logic at all, except that to believe that such a thing were even possible, is not to have understood the definition of the salvation of Christ to be His eternal life given to those whom He enters into.

The point is...there are no conditions put upon Christ Himself, except those He has already fulfilled.

What then of ongoing sin by those who have died to self in whom it is no longer they who lives but Christ who lives in them?

The answer is that just as the error of defining the salvation of Christ not as eternal as Christ is eternal, the definition of ongoing sin is in error. Indeed, one lie requires more lying to maintain it.

What then is that error of defining ongoing sin--put upon Christ in who there is no sin? It is not having the understanding that with Christ comes eternity. Which is the error of wrongfully placing the mark of the End, according to the flesh, rather than according to the Spirit. And not believing that Christ is that End--just as He said.

Some of you need to examine your own selves, and what you do and do not believe that is written. Part of the scriptures is not all truth, but all must be reconciled, and this you have not done.
 
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Wrangler

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The point is...there are no conditions put upon Christ Himself

That’s NOT the point. The point is there remains conditions put on the follower of Christ. Jesus talks about not bearing fruit, losing saltiness and not knowing one who even performed miracles in his name.
 

ScottA

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You know this is figurative, right?
Oh, I see.

Apparently you do not believe the "to live is Christ", etc., etc.; that there is nothing literal about the word of truth. That laying down His life was perhaps figurative, or us laying down ours, or us being crucified with Him.

Not that much of the scriptures are not to be interpreted different--but rather "handled correctly." But that is not what you have done.
 

ScottA

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That’s NOT the point. The point is there remains conditions put on the follower of Christ. Jesus talks about not bearing fruit, losing saltiness and not knowing one who even performed miracles in his name.
Again, apparently, "to live is Christ" means very little to you.

You are on a slippery slope.
 
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Wrangler

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Again, apparently, "to live is Christ" means very little to you.

@ScottA, are you a OSAS?

You are obviously defensive, trying to make this about me. "To live is Christ" is figurative. The fallacy of OSAS is the Post Hoc of devout Christians who back slide. You say they NEVER lived for Christ, right?
 

ScottA

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That’s NOT the point. The point is there remains conditions put on the follower of Christ. Jesus talks about not bearing fruit, losing saltiness and not knowing one who even performed miracles in his name.
@ScottA, are you a OSAS?

You are obviously defensive, trying to make this about me. "To live is Christ" is figurative. The fallacy of OSAS is the Post Hoc of devout Christians who back slide. You say they NEVER lived for Christ, right?
I should elaborate:

Who having Christ in them, is a "follower?" No one.

And that is the misunderstanding made by so many here. Apparently, you all don't even believe that salvation attains anything but an invitation--when the scriptures mark salvation as clearly divided as death and life. You got that part wrong.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24
 

ScottA

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The fallacy of OSAS is the Post Hoc of devout Christians who back slide. You say they NEVER lived for Christ, right?
I never said that.

I maintain that this is all a misunderstanding on the part of those who do not fully understand that salvation is death and new live in one permanent, everlasting act of God--not a process, not conditional after the fact, but before the fact. One that comes upon people within the illusion of time created for revelations, and deposits them in eternity before God, that very moment of the end of themselves--that End, imbodied by Christ.

But No, real saved Christians don't backslide--that is the teaching of confused men, men without understanding. No, acts of God are not so flimsy...and one who thinks so, only says so because they apparently do not know God. One who says such a thing about an act of God, says it of God.

I could tell you the truth, but so far you do not seem to want to hear it. If or when that changes, let me know.
 

Wrangler

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BloodBought 1953

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John 6:37
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.



Tsk, tsk, Scott....you know nothing! Don’t you know that you can cast “ YOURSELF” out? Lol.....these Blind Guides got an answer for everything.....In Their World Of little ( in any) Faith, “ NO” does not mean NO and “ NEVER” does not mean Never—- a five year old could figure it out .




Jesus said that if one Believed in Him, they “ALREADY HAD” Eternal Life....They “ALREADY” had passed from Death to Life and could NEVER come under Condemnation ...

Let’s add “ ALREADY” to the list of words they fail to comprehend.....

I Thank my God that I learned a long time ago not to beat my head against the wall trying to change the minds of those that are Blind and Stiff-Necked .....in the end, some things have to be “ Spiritually Discerned—- No Spirit=No Discernment......Maybe Some “ Believers” here just don’t have the Spirit in them.......you get that by RESTING in the Gospel....many here don’t even truly “ Believe” it, much less “ REST” in it as God Commands( See Hebrews 3 and 4) ......

They pay “ lip-service” to it .....they say it mindlessly because they have heard it all of their lives and never really think about it.....they don’t “ really” BELIEVE that “ Jesus died for their Sins”

It’s just like they also mindlessly sing “ Nothing But The Blood” week after week in their Sunday Social Clubs and yet they never Believe it.... If Somebody actually got up and preached a Sermon that was Dedicated to that Biblical Truth, there would be a riot !

I pray that the Newbies in these Forums are gifted with “ eyes to see and ears to hear” before they get ruined by the Leaven Spreaders and the Religionists In here that cant understand winds like “ Never”, etc.....
 
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BloodBought 1953

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It is a determination of the will by faith that seeks God in a full surrender.



Sure sounds “ Righteous and Holy” , doesn’t it? .......just like ALL “ False Gospels”......It appeals to human Pride and “ tickles the ears” of those that want to be “ Co - Savior”.....In light of Paul’s Gospel That Saves If Simply Believed and not ADDED to ( even with a Noble and Holy Sounding thing like ‘ Surrender’ ) and in light of the teachings of the Entire Book Of Galatians, ( those That preach a Different Gospel are Damned ) please explain to this audience how adding “ full surrender” to the Gospel Of Pure Grace is not how one becomes “ Fallen From Grace”......99% Of people on this planet don’t even know what it means.....

It is NOT committing a horrendous Sin and then getting caught( a la Jimmy Swaggert) like the World and most of Christianity thinks....... it’s the equivalent of saying ,” Jesus Saves—- BUT!”.....A Stellar example is what we see here as this Confused man insists that “ Sure, Jesus Saves —- BUT, ya gotta make a full surrender! I hope Newbies see that this is a “False and Perverted “ gospel” That is Warned about in Galatians —— it sounds great and a wise man can decide to “ surrender” AFTER he becomes Saved.....I know that “ I” did.......it just plays NO PART in Salvation.....Salvation is Faith in the Shed Blood Of Jesus —- PLUS NOTHING!
 

mailmandan

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Even if the KJV translators added to Romans 8:1

KJV: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
NIV, NET (and many others): Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

I totally agree that Romans 8 is one of the great chapters if the Bible!
Whether added to or not, walking after the Spirit is descriptive of children of God. Those who are in the flesh (unbelievers) put their minds on the things of the sinful nature, but those who are in the Spirit (believers) put their minds on the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.