The Nature of Jesus Christ

theefaith said:

what things did He command the apostles? Matt 28:20

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And the WORD was with GOD and GOD was the Word .
Now a reminder from GOD . COME YE OUT from amongst them , BE YE HOLY , touch not the unclean thing
and i shall recieve you . GO ye , and quickly , and learn ye this . TOO many leaders within Christendom
are teaching things they ought not to do . And thus my advice is , FLEE SUCH PLACES .
NO more prayers to mary , to saints , to angels . Flee such places .
No more bowing and kneeling to idols . FLEE such places . WORSHIP GOD IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH . ITS quite simple reallly .
AND LEARN THAT BIBLE WELL .

theefaith said:

and Mary too!

Jn 2 do whatever He tells you!

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Thee faith , in case you didnt know this , That sister actually reads her bible . She wont be a heeding ROME .

RedFan said:

So if I understand you correctly, your talisman for testing the Spirit is John's single litmus test: whether that Spirit proclaims that "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." But pretty much EVERYONE agrees that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. Not everyone agrees that he is God come in the flesh.

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If He isn't God what's so special about Him coming in the flesh?

Matthias said:

person whose God is one person, the Father, isn’t a trinitarian. Such a person is a unitarian.

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Unless Such person is one of the Trinity.

God calls God, God. Doesn't prove anything.

amigo de christo said:

Which applies not to a false place . JESUS NEVER said we ought to sit under those who teach and pratice evil .
Ye must learn this quickly my friend . Your church aint the only church that tries to do this either .
I hear many a protestant who has holler much the same , cliaming their church as the path and their words as thus sayeth the LORD .
WHEN IN TRUTH thier teachings OMIT the very one they try and claim they FOLLOW . BUT GO YE and GO QUICKLY and learn this .

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do we need to be taught?

You can decide.
You can decide what is true.
You can decide what is truth.
You can decide right and wrong.

Not one of these are found in scripture!

These are Found in scripture!
Taught is found 79 times
Instructed is found 19
Instruction is found 33

amigo de christo said:

And the WORD was with GOD and GOD was the Word .
Now a reminder from GOD . COME YE OUT from amongst them , BE YE HOLY , touch not the unclean thing
and i shall recieve you . GO ye , and quickly , and learn ye this . TOO many leaders within Christendom
are teaching things they ought not to do . And thus my advice is , FLEE SUCH PLACES .
NO more prayers to mary , to saints , to angels . Flee such places .
No more bowing and kneeling to idols . FLEE such places . WORSHIP GOD IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH . ITS quite simple reallly .
AND LEARN THAT BIBLE WELL .

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no idolatry I agree

no these are commandments that we must obey Matt 28:20 how can you obey if you don’t know what they are?

amigo de christo said:

Thee faith , in case you didnt know this , That sister actually reads her bible . She wont be a heeding ROME .

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what do I say about Rome?

marks said:

I'm going to stick with the reason the Jews themselves gave.

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This is a conflict between between Jews. I think you’re misreading the conflict but let’s say for the sake of discussion that you aren’t.

Jesus’ enemies often misunderstood what he said. If he told them that he is God, what would his enemies - unitarians, as he himself is - think he was telling them? His God is the Father. Their God is the Father. His enemies would have thought Jesus was telling them that he is the Father.

Jesus said he was the Son of God, not God, not the Father. As the trinitarian scholar Colin Brown points out, “To be called Son of God in the Bible means that you are not God.”

EloyCraft said:

Unless Such person is one of the Trinity.

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So one of the members of the Trinity has a God, the other two members of the Trinity don’t have a God, and the one member of the Trinity who has a God doesn’t have the other two members of the Trinity, nor himself, for his God.

God calls God, God. Doesn't prove anything.

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God also calls others who aren’t God “God”. Taken with the fact that God himself doesn’t have a God and the Messiah - a Jewish man - does, I think the cultural background of 1st century Judaism carries the day over 4th century trinitarianism.

A general principle: If you don’t find something persuasive then don’t believe it.

Why would someone who is literally God himself even have a God?

I don’t know. Let’s call it a mystery and move on. (We can revisit it if someone wants to.)

Why would someone who is literally God himself not have himself for his God?

I don’t know but it leads me to a question for trinitarians: how many selfs is the Trinity?

Matthias said:

So one of the members of the Trinity has a God, the other two members of the Trinity don’t have a God, and the one member of the Trinity who has a God doesn’t have the other two members of the Trinity, nor himself, for his God.



God also calls others who aren’t God “God”. Taken with the fact that God himself doesn’t have a God and the Messiah - a Jewish man - does, I think the cultural background of 1st century Judaism carries the day over 4th century trinitarianism.

A general principle: If you don’t find something persuasive then don’t believe it.

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Well, one must ask, how is it the three persons be one God.
We understand that only God can say "I always was".
The Father can. The Son can. And the Holy Spirit can.
That is existence no creature can fathom.
To support that we see all three in cooperating in the act of creation.

Gen

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light”, and there was

EloyCraft said:

Well, one must ask, how is it the three persons be one God.
We understand that only God can say "I always was".
The Father can. The Son can.

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Hmmm. I think I read somewhere that the Son died, which means he was not always.

Wrangler said:

Hmmm. I think I read somewhere that the Son died, which means he was not always.

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it doesn't mean that at all.
His soul entered the disembodied state His body in the tomb..
He wouldn't have died if we didn't kill Him. He chose to die. No one else could. Everyone else is going to die anyway.

Because He is God death had no hold on Him

EloyCraft said:

it doesn't mean that at all.
His soul entered the disembodied state His body in the tomb..
He wouldn't have died if we didn't kill Him. He chose to die. No one else could. Everyone else is going to die anyway.

Because He is God death had no hold on Him

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It is amazing how frequently someone can contradict themselves in every sentence.

We know Jesus was not God because Acts 3:15 tells us God - in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature - raised him from the dead. God is the subject of the sentence, doing the acting; Jesus is the lifeless corpse passively being acted upon.

Wrangler said:

is amazing how frequently someone can contradict themselves in every sentence.

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Curious. I didn't notice.

Wrangler said:

Hmmm. I think I read somewhere that the Son died, which means he was not always.

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No it don’t! Only the body dies!

Wrangler said:

Hmmm. I think I read somewhere that the Son died, which means he was not always.

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Lk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Jn 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

John brought them to Jesus

Jesus is the Lord their God!

Lk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

Jesus visited and redeemed the people, Jesus is the horn of salvation!

Jesus is eternal God!


Jesus is worshipped!
Only God may be worshipped!

Matthew 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Matthew 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

Matthew 8:2
And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

Matthew 9:18
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Matthew 14:33
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 15:25
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

John 9:38
And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

I was reading 1 Timothy last night in the NASB Quick Study Bible and happened upon the commentary on 6:16.

First, the verse -

“who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen”

The study commentary implies Paul is speaking about Jesus in this passage. Since Jesus was seen by men, I don’t think the commentary is correct. But that’s not what I want to talk about.

Next, the study commentary -

“6:16 IMMORTALITY. This may also be translated ‘without death.’ Jesus is God, and can therefore never die.”

If Jesus is literally God then the logic is sound, but it doesn’t match the historical facts - Jesus died.

The study commentary says - asks us to believe - that Jesus cannot have done what he in fact did.

John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Only God existed before the world was

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Jn 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

theefaith said:

John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

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Glory in prospect.

Only God existed before the world was

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A minor point, and having nothing to do with Jesus (since Jesus didn’t preexist as an angel), but angels also existed before the world was.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

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The God of Abraham, who is also the God of Jesus.

Jn 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

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“In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God and that Word was God. This same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. In it was life, and that life was the light of men. And that light shineth in the wilderness, and the wilderness comprehendeth it not.”

(Geneva Bible)

Bible Gateway passage: John 1:1-5 - 1599 Geneva Bible

How many persons do you see in this passage?