The theological fallacy of a spiritual 'resurrection'

Earburner · Jun 4, 2022

ewq1938 said:
Not reigning with him with a rod of iron over the nations until after he returns. Read it for yourself:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

What does "til I come" mean?

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After he "comes", overcomers get power over the nations.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

This is when the rod of iron rule begins. After the second coming not now!

Which is more important, what scripture says or what a doctrine says?

Let me guess, some unrelated scripture will be posted to dodge what this says. At least the scripture I use directly mentions power over the nations and the rod of iron and all this happening after the second coming. See why Premillennialists believe as they do? It's scriptural.

I don't have to dodge anything of what you referenced for scriptures. I just have to put them in their correct settings of what Jesus was meaning, according to His context.

I don't think that you understand the depth of how, and who it really is that is being broken to shivers (to be brokenhearted).

Jesus said this during-
1. His First appearance in the flesh:
Matthew 10[34] Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51-53
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

> The process of our resurrection is a two stage process.
First we are to come to God the Father in repentance, through God the Son, that we may receive forgiveness of sin, and the Gift of God's Eternal Life* (His Holy Spirit) through His Son's resurrection. In that moment, by His Holy Spirit, we are then spiritually "translated"** into His kingdom", making us to be "sealed" and "ready", so that we can be physically resurrected into the likeness of His "immortality", upon Jesus' second appearance from Heaven. By HAVING His Holy Spirit, WE ARE "overcomers".
*1 John 5:12-13
** Colossians 1:13

On the Day of Jesus' return, here is what a rod of iron will have already done to clay pots (earthen vessels), ever since His first appearance:
Revelation 2:25-27
Rev.2[26] And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
[27] And he shall rule them [tend them as a shephard- 4165, 4166] with a rod of iron; as the ["earthen"] vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

What did Jesus receive of His Father?
Matthew 12[18] Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
[19] He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
[20] A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment [of death and Life] unto victory.
What does it mean that “a bruised reed He will not break” in Matthew 12:20? | GotQuestions.org
> See also Daniel 9:24 concerning the work that The Father gave His Son to do, and did "finish".

We all would do well to fully understand Luke 4:18-21.
Luke 4[18] The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted [4937, 2588], to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised......
[21] And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
> We, who are born again, are "the body of Christ", and have received the same mission, "to heal the brokenhearted...."
John [21] Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
[23] Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Matt.21[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken [hearted]: but on whomsoever it [this stone] shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

2. His Second Appearance in Glory:
Now we can go on to the second half of the process of our salvation, which is Jesus' Glorious return to redeem us, and bodily resurrect us into the likeness of His immortalty. Please recall Romans 8:8-9, and who it is that makes us "ready" to be physically resurrected!

In Daniel 2:34, there are two visions that Daniel saw. I will list and group them as "A" and "B", each having different courses of outcomes in that prophecy.
The stone is taking action upon both groups of "A" and "B", thus causing positive results with "A", but negative results with "B".
[34] [A.] Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands,
[B.] which smote [struck] the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces [shivers].

[35] [B.] Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors;
[B.] and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them:
[A.] and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain [the church], and filled the whole earth.
(A.) Of a truth, the stone in His first appearance, did become a great mountain/kingdom (parable of the Mustard seed) like no other kingdom, and that mountain/kingdom has filled the whole earth with the Gospel message of Christ, who is Himself "the truth".

(A/B) In the second appearance of the stone, (B.) that is when there is no place found for all who did not take/have part in the stone's resurrection, who is Himself the first resurrection. 2 Peter 1:4.
2 Thessalonians 1[7] [B] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN* the Lord Jesus [the stone] shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] [B] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] [B] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] [A] WHEN* he [the stone] shall come to be glorified in his [readied] saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

* the redemption of His sheep (the saved), and the destruction of the wicked (the unsaved), will be a simultaneous event,
just as it was in the day of Noah and the day of Lot.
Luke 17
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all

ewq1938 · Jun 4, 2022

You dodged the entire content of the post.

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

What does "til I come" mean?

Earburner said:
I don't have to dodge anything of what you referenced for scriptures. I just have to put them in their correct settings of what Jesus was meaning, according to His context.

I don't think that you understand the depth of how, and who it really is that is being broken to shivers (to be brokenhearted).

Jesus said this during-
1. His First appearance in the flesh:
Matthew 10[34] Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51-53
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

> The process of our resurrection is a two stage process.
First we are to come to God the Father in repentance, through God the Son, that we may receive forgiveness of sin, and the Gift of God's Eternal Life* (His Holy Spirit) through His Son's resurrection. In that moment, by His Holy Spirit, we are then spiritually "translated"** into His kingdom", making us to be "sealed" and "ready", so that we can be physically resurrected into the likeness of His "immortality", upon Jesus' second appearance from Heaven.
*1 John 5:12-13
** Colossians 1:13

On the Day of Jesus' return, here is what a rod of iron will have already done to clay pots (earthen vessels), ever since His first appearance:
Revelation 2:25-27
Rev.2[26] And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
[27] And he shall rule them [tend them as a shephard- 4165, 4166] with a rod of iron; as the ["earthen"] vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

What did Jesus receive of His Father?
Matthew 12[18] Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
[19] He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
[20] A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment [of death and Life] unto victory.
What does it mean that “a bruised reed He will not break” in Matthew 12:20? | GotQuestions.org
> See also Daniel 9:24 concerning the work that The Father gave His Son to do, and did "finish".

We all would do well to fully understand Luke 4:18-21.
Luke 4[18] The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted [4937, 2588], to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised......
[21] And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
> We, who are born again, are "the body of Christ", and have received the same mission, "to heal the brokenhearted...."
John [21] Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
[23] Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Matt.21[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken [hearted]: but on whomsoever it [this stone] shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

2. His Second Appearance in Glory:
Now we can go on to the second half of the process of our salvation, which is Jesus' Glorious return to redeem us, and bodily resurrect us into the likeness of His immortalty. Please recall Romans 8:8-9, and who it is that makes us "ready" to be physically resurrected!

In Daniel 2:34, there are two visions that Daniel saw. I will list and group them as "A" and "B", each having different courses of outcomes in that prophecy.
The stone is taking action upon both groups of "A" and "B", thus causing positive results with "A", but negative results with "B".
[34] [A.] Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands,
[B.] which smote [struck] the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces [shivers].

[35] [B.] Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors;
[B.] and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them:
[A.] and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain [the church], and filled the whole earth.
(A.) Of a truth, the stone in His first appearance, did become a great mountain/kingdom (parable of the Mustard seed) like no other kingdom, and that mountain/kingdom has filled the whole earth with the Gospel message of Christ, who is Himself "the truth".

(A/B) In the second appearance of the stone, (B.) that is when there is no place found for all who did not take/have part in the stone's resurrection, who is Himself the first resurrection.
2 Thessalonians 1[7] [B] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN* the Lord Jesus [the stone] shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] [B] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] [B] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] [A] WHEN* he [the stone] shall come to be glorified in his [readied] saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

* the redemption of His sheep (the saved), and the destruction of the wicked (the unsaved), will be a simultaneous event,
just as it was in the day of Noah and the day of Lot.
Luke 17
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all

Timtofly · Jun 4, 2022

Desire Of All Nations said:
And that was just a description of the kind of persecution people who rejected the mark faced from Catholics and Protestants around the time of the Reformation.The mark has existed for as long as the Roman religion existed. It is clearly not something that will be invented in the future because Rev. 13 establishes the fact that the political and religious figure will enforce a pre-existing mark:

Of course it is. Revelation 13 clearly states the FP and Satan are only given 42 months. This is the last 42 months, just prior to the 1,000 year reign of Christ. That is the only 42 months of all time there will be a mark.

Earburner · Jun 4, 2022

ewq1938 said:
You dodged the entire content of the post.

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

What does "til I come" mean?

"In that day", It means this, for the unsaved:
2 Thessalonians 1[7] [B] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN* the Lord Jesus [the stone] shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] [B] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] [B] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

And in that "SAME DAY", it means this for the saved:
[10] [A] WHEN* he [the stone] shall come to be glorified in his [readied] saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

ewq1938 · Jun 4, 2022

Stop dodging the question. What's wrong with you?

Earburner said:
"In that day", It means this, for the unsaved:
2 Thessalonians 1[7] [B] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN* the Lord Jesus [the stone] shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] [B] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] [B] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

And in that "SAME DAY", it means this for the saved:
[10] [A] WHEN* he [the stone] shall come to be glorified in his [readied] saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Earburner · Jun 5, 2022

ewq1938 said:
Stop dodging the question. What's wrong with you?

Since you are not satisfied with my truthful answer, then I shall provide another perspective from a parable.
Luke.19[13] And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
"Occupy", being busy at doing what?
Ans. > We, who are born again, are "the body of Christ", and have received the same mission, "to heal the brokenhearted...."
John [21] Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
[23] Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Back to Luke 4:18-21, to learn why Jesus was sent, and why we are also sent.
Rev. 1[6] And hath made us kings and priests UNTO God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

1Pet.2[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
> This has been happening since Pentecost.

Earburner · Jun 5, 2022

ewq1938 said:
That is unscriptural. The second coming is in Revelation 19 and no fire destroys the world and heaven at that time.

If that's what you really think, then becareful that you haven't become a "scoffer".
2 Peter 3[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:1-15
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10

Timtofly · Jun 5, 2022

Earburner said:
If that's what you really think, then becareful that you haven't become a "scoffer".
2 Peter 3[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:1-15
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10

I would place Amil as "scoffers". They deny a future millennium reign of Christ. They keep saying, "It ain't so". Many even laugh at such pre-mill, as they call it, "nonsense". That is a scoffer to me.

Most pre-mill I know hold to the pre-eminence of Jesus both as Messiah and Prince with full authority. But only at the Second Coming will Jesus reign physically over all the Nations from Israel. That is not scoffing or mocking any one. That is holding forth the Word of God. You keep quoting all the verses. You just have a different interpretation. Most have a human opinion that Revelation is just a series of parallels, and not chronological. God has a system and order for all things. That is evident in creation. The end of the world is not chaos, nor is Revelation just a repetitive scenario.

Earburner · Jun 5, 2022

Timtofly said:
I would place Amil as "scoffers". They deny a future millennium reign of Christ. They keep saying, "It ain't so". Many even laugh at such pre-mill, as they call it, "nonsense". That is a scoffer to me.

Most pre-mill I know hold to the pre-eminence of Jesus both as Messiah and Prince with full authority. But only at the Second Coming will Jesus reign physically over all the Nations from Israel. That is not scoffing or mocking any one. That is holding forth the Word of God. You keep quoting all the verses. You just have a different interpretation. Most have a human opinion that Revelation is just a series of parallels, and not chronological. God has a system and order for all things. That is evident in creation. The end of the world is not chaos, nor is Revelation just a repetitive scenario.

Amil doesn't scoff at 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9, but premil does!!!
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN* the Lord Jesus [the stone] shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Are you not waiting for the Lord Jesus to be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, that blessed hope (for us who believe)?
If so, then expect the results as shown in verses 8 and 9, as well the remainder of that chapter.
Doubt it not!! Because if you do, you are scoffing.

ewq1938 · Jun 5, 2022

Earburner said:
If that's what you really think, then becareful that you haven't become a "scoffer".

You are just using that to make a cheap personal insult. Shame on you.

ewq1938 · Jun 5, 2022

Earburner said:
Since you are not satisfied with my truthful answer, then I shall provide another perspective from a parable.

You refuse to answer the question because the answer proves your doctrine wrong so you toss red herring fallacies all over the place.

Revelation 2 proves the rod of iron reign over the nations starts AFTER the second coming.

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations after Christ has returned not before it. Compare to this:

ewq1938 · Jun 5, 2022

Earburner said:
Are you not waiting for the Lord Jesus to be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, that blessed hope (for us who believe)?
If so, then expect the results as shown in verses 8 and 9, as well the remainder of that chapter.
Doubt it not!! Because if you do, you are scoffing.

This is en example of making insults using scripture. It's pathetic and sad.

Timtofly · Jun 5, 2022

Earburner said:
Amil doesn't scoff at 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9, but premil does!!!
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN* the Lord Jesus [the stone] shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Are you not waiting for the Lord Jesus to be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, that blessed hope (for us who believe)?
If so, then expect the results as shown in verses 8 and 9, as well the remainder of that chapter.
Doubt it not!! Because if you do, you are scoffing.

I accept that will happen at the Second Coming. Amil scoff that there is a 1,000 year reign of Christ the Prince after the Second Coming.

Not all Amil claim the earth is destroyed by fire. The earth was not destroyed by water, to the point it no longer existed. Peter did not say the earth ceases to exist. Peter says the works of mankind cease to exist. Humans are not burned up. They are hiding in caves and under mounds of rubble.

"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

This is the same event as Peter's fire that burns up all the works on earth. The universe dissolves, because all the stars come to earth as they are the angels themselves, no more doing their jobs as stars, but on the earth harvesting souls out of Adam's dead flesh.

Earburner · Jun 5, 2022

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
So then, what I am saying is, if you are wanting and willing to hope for and expect verse 10, that's very good, but who are you to disregard and ignore verses 8 and 9?
It is apparent that Pre-Mil read those scriptures excluding verses 8 and 9:
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us,
[8] [ignored by Pre-Mil.]
[9] [ignored by Pre-Mil.]
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Sorry!
You can't have verses 7 and 10 without 8 and 9.
Edit: I corrected the typo of "2 Thes. 2:7-10".
The correction is 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

Truth7t7 · Jun 5, 2022

ewq1938 said:
After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations after Christ has returned not before it. Compare to this:

No Mortal Human Body Survives After The Second Coming (The End), Only The Righteous Are Left In The Eternal Kingdom, In Glorified Body's

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Timtofly · Jun 5, 2022

Earburner said:
2 Thessalonians 2:7-10
So then, what I am saying is, if you are wanting and willing to hope for and expect verse 10, that's very good, but who are you to disregard and ignore verses 8 and 9?
It is apparent that Pre-Mil read those scriptures excluding verses 8 and 9:
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us,
[8] [ignored by Pre-Mil.]
[9] [ignored by Pre-Mil.]
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Sorry!
You can't have verses 7 and 10 without 8 and 9.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with a 1,000 year reign after the Second Coming.

Those verses talk about the Second Coming itself. There is no man of lawlessness during the Millennium. Who teaches that strawman fallacy, other than yourself?

Earburner · Jun 5, 2022

Timtofly said:
I accept that will happen at the Second Coming. Amil scoff that there is a 1,000 year reign of Christ the Prince after the Second Coming.

Lol, the only survivors/escapees that are going to populate a Pre-mil futuristic 1000 years, are going to be those who took "the mark of the Beast".

But then again, you do have a situation of double jeopardy with your interpretation.
(1.) There will be no one who took the "mark" that will be saved, and all who weren't change in an instant, upon Jesus' Glorious appearance
(2.) shall NOT escape His fiery presence.

Earburner · Jun 5, 2022

Timtofly said:
That has nothing whatsoever to do with a 1,000 year reign after the Second Coming.

Of course you think that what I quoted and said has nothing to do with the Second Coming of Christ.
You conveniently ignored verses 8 and 9 in
2 Thessalonians 1 (< corrected).

I also corrected the typo in my previous post of my reference to 2 Thessalonians. It now correctly stands as chapter 1 verses 7-10.
Sorry about that.

Earburner · Jun 5, 2022

Timtofly said:
That has nothing whatsoever to do with a 1,000 year reign after the Second Coming.

Those verses talk about the Second Coming itself. There is no man of lawlessness during the Millennium. Who teaches that strawman fallacy, other than yourself?

I had a typo in my scripture reference. Of which, by my fault, brought you to a wrong conclusion.
My error has been corrected.

ewq1938 · Jun 5, 2022

More cut and paste avoidance. The truth must scare you. Think about switching to a doctrine that doesn't fear what scripture says about the rod of iron rule happening after the second coming.

Truth7t7 said:
No Mortal Human Body Survives After The Second Coming (The End), Only The Righteous Are Left In The Eternal Kingdom, In Glorified Body's

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

The theological fallacy of a spiritual 'resurrection'

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