Imputed righteousness;

Prentis · Sep 30, 2011

Amen.

I was reading a booklet tonight, and the man basically said that the devil has no fear of people who call themselves Christians, but do not follow Christ. As a matter of fact, it is his greatest tool! By our lack of Christlikeness, we have given, for example, the Jews every reason to justify their unbelief.

'Claiming' the name of Christ has no power, unless we actually walk in his authority and life.

The kingdom is counter to all the worlds politics, and shows a completely different way. Unless we walk by that, we lack the 'revolutionary' aspect of Christ. That revolution is nothing like the worlds, but when Christ comes in he truly brings in a new element, that requires things to change. We are to bring in that same element, that is what makes us Christians, imitators of Christ!

Vengle · Oct 1, 2011

Wow! This discussion is really thought provoking.

In pondering what was being said here I realized I needed to refine my own understanding of this a bit. I went to Romans chapter 4 and pondered our foremost example of how this works, that being Abraham. But I discovered something interesting about how we word this when speaking about it.

If we say that Abraham was imputed righteousness we are stepping away from what Romans 4:17-22 shows us. Please allow me to explain.

Place your mind in this setting first: Man was spiritually dead in Adam due to Adam's sin. The dead cannot have any recognizable works. That thus created a delemma. That delemma is what God's grace sought to solve. God needed to make it possible for man to have at least one recognizable work. And that work had to be of a man's own desire in the man's own heart so that God could impute that work as righteousness.

When we read Romans 4:17-22 we see that God imputed Abraham's faith as righteousness. And that formed the basis for God to begin working with Abraham. The Ransom of Christ is of great enough value that it covers clear back to righteous Abel, thus allowing God to recognize the small seed of faith in the hearts of any man who has willingly believed.

Have you gleaned my point yet? Notice that Romans 4:22 does not say the righteousness was imputed, but rather says that the faith mentioned just prior in verses 20 an 21 was imputed as righteousness.

If you ponder that I think you will agree that there is a subtle difference between righteousness being the thing that is imputed and faith being imputed as righteousness.

Faith is the beginning act of righteousness that God recognizes in us. It is the beginning work that God gave man when he first created the man in his image. So it is one of the works that God gave us to do.

That is why we must first believe if we are to avail our self to and be covered by the ransom to then move forward and let our sins be washed away.

Prentis · Oct 1, 2011

Interesting thoughts!

By our faith, we are imputed righteousness. That is faith then that requires obedience. And by this faith, grace (the power to do his will) is made available to us! We must grow in faith. The thing is true faith, trust in God, requires that we obey. If you trust in God when he says 'Do this', then you do it, knowing that by being obedient you please him.

I'm just putting my thoughts out there... This definitely has me pondering.

logabe · Oct 1, 2011

Prentis said:
Interesting thoughts!

I'm just putting my thoughts out there... This definitely has me pondering.

The law could save no one, not because the law was faulty, but because
man was incapable of attaining to its righteous standard. The law manifested
the righteousness of God, but mortal man was incapable of attaining to such
a high standard of morality by the force of his own will. For this reason, God
provided another way—a way that would actually work. Jesus came to do
what we could not do—that is, to fulfill every yod and ornament of the law
(Matt. 5:18)—not only by doing its moral precepts, but also by fulfilling that
which it prophesied.

We, then, attain righteousness by faith in Him, for the righteousness of
Christ is imputed to us as if we had done what Christ did. Not only did He
pay the penalty for our sin that was demanded by the judgments of the law,
but He also attributed to us His righteous acts and His character. This was
possible only because we became part of His body. In identifying with His
death, we also identify with His resurrection life (Rom. 6:5).

Because believers have identified with Christ in His death, we find Paul
saying, “I die daily” (1 Cor. 15:31). Paul says in Gal. 5:24,

24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the
flesh with its passions and desires.

Yes, and not just once, but “daily.” There would be no need to do this daily,
if the flesh would remain dead. The problem is that the flesh shows
remarkable resilience to crucifixion, in spite of our “reckoning” it dead. Hence,
we cannot afford to ignore it, hoping it will go away if we simply refuse to
recognize the problem.

Paul obviously dealt with it daily, and that means he did not ignore it and
claim it did not exist. Dying daily means that we continually judge the flesh
and the old man (Adamic nature). Since the crucifixion of Christ was the
judgment of the law against sin, we can say that each time we crucify the
flesh, we are applying the judgment of the law to the old man.

That is how the judgment of the law yet applies to us as Christians. It is
relevant and operable every time we “die daily,” that is, any time the flesh
desires to fulfill its lawless way. Only insofar as the flesh remains dead is
the law irrelevant in our lives.

As we are led by the Spirit and as we mature in Christ, more and more
areas of fleshly activity are crucified and stay dead. Things that used to
be temptations are no longer issues. In those areas, we have put on the
mind of Christ. In those areas, the law is now written on our hearts.

Logabe

Prentis · Oct 1, 2011

We must grow in Christ, yes.

As Noah's faith required that he build the ark, otherwise his faith would not have saved him, so our faith requires that we put to death the deeds of the flesh and grow in the character of Christ.

We must put on Christ and become like him.

Vengle · Oct 2, 2011

Before I begin, I would like to ask if any others on here have difficulty clipping and pasting in the text editor supplied by this site?

It usually allows me to paste the very first time and then it is as if that feature shuts off. As I continue my thought, if I desire to paste an excerpt from something that I make reference to I am unable to do so.

I am at this moment trying to prepare my entire reply in my own system’s editor while keeping the CB thread open to reference as I formulate my thoughts. I hope to see if I can take advantage of that first time paste the CB editor has permitted on my past posts. If you see this posted you will know that worked. But if there is a more direct way of doing it I would appreciate knowing about it. Thank you in advance.

Prentis, your comment puts me in mind of James 2:14. I believe that what you described captures the essence of the point James was making.

logabe’s comment comes home to in a very live way in that it amplifies the struggle I find in myself. I suspect it is the struggle common to us all, so not that I am feeling sorry for myself, but I find in this world it is like as if there is a force which seeks to keep that from happening daily as it should. The counsels we receive in the scriptures are given us for that purpose to help us with that struggle I believe.

For example, the counsel that we not be forsaking the gathering together of the brothers but drawing together encourage one another and even more often as the finish of this world draws near.

I find myself wishing that I could have been as insightful as Prentis at his age (judging by his picture) but I was not. I thought I was smart. I thought I even knew something about the scriptures, far more than I actually did. And I have had to find that out with hindsight Hopefully I now have enough sense to speak less and listen more.

I am a bit of a shut-in now that I am older, which makes it difficult for me to gather together with brothers in the faith but for this computer. And I find a sort of double whammy in that I have only of late had my eyes opened to my ignorance and now that I feel even more powerless by age I am face to face with that old man yet strong for my failure to deal with him as I should have in the days of my physical strength.

I think that is something Solomon recognized, Ecclesiastes 12:1 　“Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them”

It is not that I cannot find pleasure in these days. It is that not having that old man put down to the extent he should have been by this point of my life I find too many slip-ups for which I then feel shame. And those slip-ups haunt me to threaten my belief in myself that I am worthy of God’s kindness and attention to me. I think is that experience which causes many to adopt a more permissive theology. Though I am sure that many do so just because they actually desire the freedom to do those forbidden things.

Prentis · Oct 2, 2011

Thanks for sharing your thoughts brother. If there is anything godly in me, it is by the grace of God, who had mercy on me and taught me. Still, I know there is a long road ahead of me.

I agree about adopting a more 'permissive theology', I think it's not wise. We should accept what the Lord has said, and remember he is loving and merciful and throw ourselves at his feet because of our lack. God is merciful to those who are merciful... Those who forgive, he will forgive. Our theology ought to reflect his standard, and our heart his love.

For example, the counsel that we not be forsaking the gathering together of the brothers but drawing together encourage one another and even more often as the finish of this world draws near.

I think this something important that you point to. I fear that much of the 'coming together' we do isn't what the Lord desires. We come together according to our doctrine, we are divisive because of what we believe. We come together once a week for two hours, brothers do not each use their gifts of the Lord to edify the body, rather one man speaks the whole time.

We must come together as a body, live close, see each other often, be together in prayer, have unity of faith, and work out things of doctrine. As long as our hearts are towards the Lord, our doctrine should not divide us. And I fear that there is much of christianity who's heart is not towards the Lord...

Anyways, I'll stop rambling on...

For copy and paste I use Ctrl+C (copy) and Ctrl+V (paste), it's always worked for me, so I don't know...

The Lord bless you, vengle!

RichardBurger · Oct 2, 2011

Mostly what I get out of most of the replies on this thread is the idea that after a person is saved they must built their own rightousness by what they do; that building our own righteousness is required for salvation; that if you don't build your own righeousness you don't have faith and are not saved.

It seem that most do not understand that the child of God has been imputed with the righteousness of God, ""by God"". A person that has the imputed righteousness of God does not need to establish his/her own righteousness just as the Jews were trying to do in Romans 10.

Romans 10:2-4
2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
NKJV

Vengle · Oct 2, 2011

RichardBurger can you see that God must impute any work that our faith performs as righteousness before it is counted? That is the thing God made possible in Christ. The ransom applies to all that we do. It is misleading to just say God imputes us righteousness because many in the world then see God as sanctioning sin.

It was faith that God imputed as righteousness and faith without works is dead. That is especially clear in James chapter 2 and in Romans chapter 4. Therefore the works that faith perform are counted by God as righteousness.

You said, "Mostly what I get out of most of the replies on this thread is the idea that after a person is saved they must built their own rightousness by what they do"

We cannot build our own righteousnes. Not even a perfect man can. God is the one that declares our work to be righteous just as he is the one that declares it to be unrighteous. Righteousness is therefore a judgment of God. Can you see that?

Hey Prentis, thank you for the advice about CTRL+C and CTRL+V. It works great. Also, your comment is right on target with what I have grown to be able to see.

Prentis · Oct 2, 2011

Vengle said:
We cannot build our own righteousnes. Not even a perfect man can. God is the one that declares our work to be righteous just as he is the one that declares it to be unrighteous. Righteousness is therefore a judgment of God. Can you see that?

Welcome, brother, for the pasting tip. And amen to your post!

Most of all, what's right above; it is key to understanding how God works. He justifies, not us. We cannot declare ourselves eternally justified (unless the Lord declared it). The mistake many do is look in the bible and read something about God eternally justifying a man and going 'That's me!' We cannot make ourselves judges over the matter. And nothing is judged before it's time. We must wait for God to make judgment.

We are called to be faithful, and God will judge. If we really have faith, we will obey God, atleast in the measure we are capable, and be repentant and contrite of heart when we fail. Do we measure up? It is not for us to judge.

RichardBurger · Oct 3, 2011

Prentis said:
Welcome, brother, for the pasting tip. And amen to your post!

Most of all, what's right above; it is key to understanding how God works. He justifies, not us. We cannot declare ourselves eternally justified (unless the Lord declared it). The mistake many do is look in the bible and read something about God eternally justifying a man and going 'That's me!' We cannot make ourselves judges over the matter. And nothing is judged before it's time. We must wait for God to make judgment.

We are called to be faithful, and God will judge. If we really have faith, we will obey God, atleast in the measure we are capable, and be repentant and contrite of heart when we fail. Do we measure up? It is not for us to judge.

That is the flaw in your idea, "do we measure up". It is saying that we do not know if we are saved until WE measure up by our works.

God has already made the child of God "measure up" by imputing them with His righteousness and remember that God told Peter "what God has cleansed let no man call unclean." The child of God has God's own righteousness IMPUTED. They are, therefore, sinless in the sight of God.

Prentis · Oct 3, 2011

[sup]5[/sup] But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, [sup]6[/sup] to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, [sup]7[/sup] to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. [sup]8[/sup] For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [sup]9[/sup] For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. [sup]10[/sup] Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;

We have been cleansed from our old sins, but it is said of us that if we do not add to our faith and move on, we are shortsighted. It is said we must make our calling and election sure.

We are to rest from our own works, and submit to God. If we do this, though, we will then do the works prepared in advance by the Father.

RichardBurger · Oct 3, 2011

Prentis said:
[sup]5[/sup] But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, [sup]6[/sup] to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, [sup]7[/sup] to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. [sup]8[/sup] For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [sup]9[/sup] For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. [sup]10[/sup] Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;

We have been cleansed from our old sins, but it is said of us that if we do not add to our faith and move on, we are shortsighted. It is said we must make our calling and election sure.

We are to rest from our own works, and submit to God. If we do this, though, we will then do the works prepared in advance by the Father.

Every child of God answers to God, not man. A person may think that they are doing what God wants them to do but it is not their place to judge another child of God.

In other words who are you to judge the other children of God. It is God that has accepted them.

I believe every child of God will walk in the path that God has selected and it is not for other men to judge them.

Romans 14:3-13
3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written: "As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God."
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way.
NKJV

Prentis · Oct 3, 2011

Richard, I do not judge you, or another man. Is it to judge to say that indeed we must make our calling and election sure and add to our faith all these things?

I have nothing against someone believing that the children of God will walk in the paths set before them. But those very children need exhortation, and pushing and prodding, and discipline from the Father to do this. The very thing that could stop one from attaining is that he doesn't heed the warnings of God. The prophets warned Israel, and Paul, Peter, the apostles all warned the sheep, that they would turn from their ways and to the Lord.

You are right, God is the one who accepts people. We cannot judge them to be rejected, but we cannot judge them to be accepted, including ourselves. Paul himself knew he could be disqualified. We have a run to race, brother!

Let us seek the Lord....

With love in our Master

Vengle · Oct 3, 2011

3 John 1:11 "Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God."

I would like to begin by recognizing that the spiritual ability shown in the way you are examining the message of God's word assures me that I see in all who are commenting in this thread that Christ is indeed working with all of you and each of you are indeed working with him.

When Paul was being challenged of certain men from within the church who were opposing his authority to teach the message of Christ, Paul responded to them, 1 Corinthians 4:3-5 "But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God."

In that we see that we are not atomatically justified by the ransom of the Lamb, but we must be justified in the finally.

Peter spoke of this when he said, 1 Peter 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

As we know then that this must be true, how is it that we are imputed righteousness apart from works? And, is the righteousness that we are imputed the finished righteousness that gives us God's blessing of eternal life? Or is the righteousness we are imputed only a means of God's beginning to work with us so that he might shape us into a new creature whose righteousness is no longer like filthy rags that he can bless with everlasting life?

Many have said that the ransom has washed them and made their sins white as snow. They accept by faith that this is so even before they have yet completed their cooperation with the bath in the water of the word whereby Christ presents to himself a glorified church having no spot or wrinkle. A church that has come out of that bath ready to put on that new garment that is white as snow.

This is seed meet for pondering. If our justification is complete from the beginning by merely saying, "I believe", then why must we be judged any further?

These things in themselves tell us that many need to rethink what they have hastily believed.

RichardBurger · Oct 23, 2011

Prentis said:
No, not me. I claim God is capable of so filling a man and so working in the man, by the power of the cross and the power of the ressurection.

God's imputed righteousness is that he gives us to walk in his righteousness, not because it is of us, but it is made available to us through his son.

We are to walk in the same power as he does, in the power of the ressurection, now.

God is no respector of persons. He gives the Holy Spirit to all those that believe in Jesus' work on the cross. But I see you want us to believe He has filled you more than others.

Prentis said:
Richard, I do not judge you, or another man. Is it to judge to say that indeed we must make our calling and election sure and add to our faith all these things?

I have nothing against someone believing that the children of God will walk in the paths set before them. But those very children need exhortation, and pushing and prodding, and discipline from the Father to do this. The very thing that could stop one from attaining is that he doesn't heed the warnings of God. The prophets warned Israel, and Paul, Peter, the apostles all warned the sheep, that they would turn from their ways and to the Lord.

You are right, God is the one who accepts people. We cannot judge them to be rejected, but we cannot judge them to be accepted, including ourselves. Paul himself knew he could be disqualified. We have a run to race, brother! Let us seek the Lord....

With love in our Master

Now you have said it. You feel that you are the only one that is doing it all and that it is your duty to push, prod, and discipline the children of God.

Who made you the judge of God's children? It certainly wasn't God. You sin just like the rest of us but your ego and arragance knows no bounds

Romans 14:1-10 - The Law of Liberty
1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.
2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.
3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
NKJV

Vengle · Oct 23, 2011

If the work is all ready done, then what is left for me to do?

If God does it for me, then why can I not just relax, not think about, and just effortlessly do what comes into my mind to do?

The obvious answer is that God gives us the power but it is up to us to use that power.

And I would really like to discuss deeper what that power is and how it really works. We sum it up sometimes by saying it is the holy spirit working in us.

But we also see scripture that shows us it is the renewed spirit of our own mind which accomplishes our obedience.

So does the holy spirit work within us to do the work for us?

Or does the holy spirit bear witness to our spirit and train our spirit to be able to accomplish our obedience?

Acts 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Romans 7:25 "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Ephesians 4:23 "And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;"

Prentis · Oct 23, 2011

RichardBurger said:
God is no respector of persons. He gives the Holy Spirit to all those that believe in Jesus' work on the cross. But I see you want us to believe He has filled you more than others.

Now you have said it. You feel that you are the only one that is doing it all and that it is your duty to push, prod, and discipline the children of God.

Who made you the judge of God's children? It certainly wasn't God. You sin just like the rest of us but your ego and arragance knows no bounds

Romans 14:1-10 - The Law of Liberty
1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.
2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.
3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
NKJV

I do not claim to be filled more than another, and it is not MY duty to push and prod. But as brothers, it is our duty to push each other to move forward, and as servants of the Lord, we are to preach the truth. What you believe to be truth, you openly preach, and now you would rebuke me for doing the same?

In the very post you quote from me I said I judge no man. I repeat what I said brother, do I judge a man when I say that we must seek God with all diligence, persevere, and add to our faith virtue, brotherly kindness, etc?

Or is your own security bothered when I say such things that disagree with your doctrine?

Again, this is not an attack, Richard, but consider these things. All I am saying is that, as the Lord says, and as Paul says, we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling, persevere to the end, make our calling and election sure, move from faith to faith, walk by the power of the Lord.

RichardBurger · Oct 24, 2011

Vengle said:
If the work is all ready done, then what is left for me to do?

If God does it for me, then why can I not just relax, not think about, and just effortlessly do what comes into my mind to do?

The obvious answer is that God gives us the power but it is up to us to use that power.

And I would really like to discuss deeper what that power is and how it really works. We sum it up sometimes by saying it is the holy spirit working in us.

But we also see scripture that shows us it is the renewed spirit of our own mind which accomplishes our obedience.

So does the holy spirit work within us to do the work for us?

Or does the holy spirit bear witness to our spirit and train our spirit to be able to accomplish our obedience?

Acts 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Romans 7:25 "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Ephesians 4:23 "And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;"

you said "If the work is all ready done, then what is left for me to do?"

Placing your belief, faith, trust, confidence in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross is being obedient to God in this age of grace.

You seem to feel that your salvation is based on what you do to obtain it (legalism). In other words you think God owes you salvation because of of what you do, God owes it to you because you have earned it. ---- That will not get anyone into heaven. A person can not get into heaven any other way than the blood shed on the cross.

God's power is shown by the cross because through it all who place their belief, faith, trust, confidence in the shed blood HAVE BEEN (past tense) reconciled to God. We are saved and kept by the power oF God. It is a shame that not many will accept this and have eternal life but they don't.

RichardBurger · Oct 24, 2011

Prentis said:
I do not claim to be filled more than another, and it is not MY duty to push and prod. But as brothers, it is our duty to push each other to move forward, and as servants of the Lord, we are to preach the truth. What you believe to be truth, you openly preach, and now you would rebuke me for doing the same?

In the very post you quote from me I said I judge no man. I repeat what I said brother, do I judge a man when I say that we must seek God with all diligence, persevere, and add to our faith virtue, brotherly kindness, etc?

Or is your own security bothered when I say such things that disagree with your doctrine?

Again, this is not an attack, Richard, but consider these things. All I am saying is that, as the Lord says, and as Paul says, we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling, persevere to the end, make our calling and election sure, move from faith to faith, walk by the power of the Lord.

You said previously "I have nothing against someone believing that the children of God will walk in the paths set before them. But those very children need exhortation, and pushing and prodding, and discipline from the Father to do this. The very thing that could stop one from attaining is that he doesn't heed the warnings of God. The prophets warned Israel, and Paul, Peter, the apostles all warned the sheep, that they would turn from their ways and to the Lord.
You can't see what you are saying.

1. On the one hand you say, "I do not claim to be filled more than another, and it is not MY duty to push and prod.

2 And on the other hand you say "But as brothers, it is our duty to push each other to move forward, and as servants of the Lord, we are to preach the truth. What you believe to be truth, you openly preach,"

Which is it, No 1 or No 2.

God has not set you above all the other children of God, You have elevated yourself to that position.

To only thing we are to do is to preach the gospel of grace and I haven't seen you doing that and when I do it you find fault with me.

Every child of God walks with God in a personal relationship. You have no business trying to tell them how they are to do it. They are endwelled with the Holy Spirit and are directed by that Spirit.

Imputed righteousness;

New Member

New Member

New Member

Active Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

Similar threads