Could God Save Everybody If He Wanted To?

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jiggyfly

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It's not possible for God to lie.
I was applying my post to the topic.

What do you think about these scriptures Biggandyy?

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.
 

brionne

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Your statement "If he judges a person as worthy of saving, he will save them..." is actually disproved by the verses you cite and your statement is false in this manner:

The common verse between them is from the OT, "I [The Lord] will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy..." In both instances, MERCY being the topic in question, I must ask the question, "Is judgment executed by showing mercy?"

So the question becomes, can a person be be WORTHY of MERCY? Manifestly one can not. Mercy is a decision made by God entirely upon His good will and pleasure, see EPH 1:5.

the very fact that God says ""I [The Lord] will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy..." implies that he will not show mercy to everyone. So what you really should be asking is, what puts some people in line to receive Gods mercy?

Luke 1:50 "and for generations after generations his mercy is upon those who fear him"

So this would imply that a person who has no fear of God, or no respect for God, does not deserve his mercy and God will not show mercy upon the unrepentant sinners either as Isaiah 9:17 shows. When the Isrealites unrepentantly acted wickedly, God withheld his mercy from them just as he will withold it from those mentioned in this verse 2 Thessalonians 1:8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus
 

biggandyy

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Pegg, God answers your question in the same verse you are quoting. "I WILL have mercy on whom I will have mercy".

Mercy is IMPOSSIBLE TO BE DESERVED!!!!! If it were deserved then it ceases to be mercy! Mercy is, by definition, an UNDESERVED pardon. There is no way possible to place ourselves in line to receive mercy. As I stated before if mercy would be deserved then it is no longer mercy we would be receiving, it would be justice (i.e. a sound judgment).

GOD decides of His own FREE WILL and GOOD PLEASURE whom He will save. (I am not shouting with my CAPSLOCK, that is for emphasis, the italics fonts are a bit underwhelming on this forum).

We could obey God (i.e. The Law) from the moment we are born to the moment we die and still go directly to Hell. We could follow the Golden Rule and all of Christ's teaching from the Sermon on the Mount and still go straight to the 7th Level of Hades.

Your comparison of Isaiah 9 and 2 Thess is an Apples to Oranges comparison because the Israelites were under the Law and in Thessalonians we are under Grace that is apart from the Law, i.e. the Atonement of Christ. The two can not be pushed together in the manner you attempt.

I really want you to understand the difference between Mercy and Justice, it is very important to get it right... all manner of heresy crops up when God's people forget the difference.
 

brionne

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Pegg, God answers your question in the same verse you are quoting. "I WILL have mercy on whom I will have mercy".

Mercy is IMPOSSIBLE TO BE DESERVED!!!!! If it were deserved then it ceases to be mercy! Mercy is, by definition, an UNDESERVED pardon. There is no way possible to place ourselves in line to receive mercy. As I stated before if mercy would be deserved then it is no longer mercy we would be receiving, it would be justice (i.e. a sound judgment).

GOD decides of His own FREE WILL and GOOD PLEASURE whom He will save. (I am not shouting with my CAPSLOCK, that is for emphasis, the italics fonts are a bit underwhelming on this forum).

We could obey God (i.e. The Law) from the moment we are born to the moment we die and still go directly to Hell. We could follow the Golden Rule and all of Christ's teaching from the Sermon on the Mount and still go straight to the 7th Level of Hades.

Your comparison of Isaiah 9 and 2 Thess is an Apples to Oranges comparison because the Israelites were under the Law and in Thessalonians we are under Grace that is apart from the Law, i.e. the Atonement of Christ. The two can not be pushed together in the manner you attempt.

I really want you to understand the difference between Mercy and Justice, it is very important to get it right... all manner of heresy crops up when God's people forget the difference.

i understand that mercy is 'given' and that justice is 'deserved'

but what im stating is that God does not show mercy to everyone.. if you think the word 'deserved' is wrong, then ok, i can put it another way, but the fact is that not everyone is shown mercy as we can see from scriptures where the wicked are destroyed. Why aren't the wicked ones shown mercy?

What does Paul say in Romans 9:18 "So, then, upon whom he wishes he has mercy, but whom he wishes he lets become obstinate"

Does that not imply to you that not everyone receives Gods mercy?
 

biggandyy

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That is my point entirely. God gives mercy, period. The few that receive it were already chosen before He said "Let there be light"
 

brionne

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That is my point entirely. God gives mercy, period. The few that receive it were already chosen before He said "Let there be light"

well i cant say i agree with that, but i agree with the fact that God gives mercy... he gives it to those who meet his criteria.
 

Comm.Arnold

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I am sure he could if he used his power to turn us all into robots. The road to the kingdom is meant to prepare us and trim the fat of sin and all things Godless, because certain behaviors will not be tolerated in heaven., they wont even exist the thoughts wont even popup.
 

biggandyy

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well i cant say i agree with that, but i agree with the fact that God gives mercy... he gives it to those who meet his criteria.

Then what you are describing is not mercy. What you are describing is merit, earning your way into heaven.
 

brionne

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Then what you are describing is not mercy. What you are describing is merit, earning your way into heaven.

well the scriptures say clearly that God gives mercy to those who fear him and do what is right, but he will not give mercy to some people. For example, someone who does not show mercy to others will not be shown mercy:
James 2:13 For the one that does not practice mercy will have [his] judgment without mercy"
Matthew 5:7 “Happy are the merciful, since they will be shown mercy.
Matthew 6:15 whereas if YOU do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will YOUR Father forgive YOUR trespasses

If this means showing mercy to others is a 'merit', then yes, i guess it is.
 

biggandyy

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You are vacillating on the meaning of mercy... there is a big difference between the mercy we show between each other in flesh and blood and the mercy God the Father shows us which leads to salvation.
 

brionne

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You are vacillating on the meaning of mercy... there is a big difference between the mercy we show between each other in flesh and blood and the mercy God the Father shows us which leads to salvation.

mercy is mercy whether God shows it or we show it.

Just as kindness is kindness whether God shows it or we show it.


Gods mercy isnt going to be shown to many people...even some who 'think' they are following his son.
 

Duckybill

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What do you think about these scriptures Biggandyy?

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.
They are conditional upon believing and obeying.

John 3:16 (NKJV)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

God hardened Pharaoh's heart so that He could destroy him.

Romans 9:17-18 (NKJV)
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
 

jiggyfly

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They are conditional upon believing and obeying.

John 3:16 (NKJV)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

God hardened Pharaoh's heart so that He could destroy him.

Romans 9:17-18 (NKJV)
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

Guess you must have missed who the post was directed to, I'm interested in what Biggandyy thinks.
 

biggandyy

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I was applying my post to the topic.

What do you think about these scriptures Biggandyy?

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.

For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.-- It doesn't read: For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he WILL have mercy on everyone. The wording of the verse does not categorically include everyone will receive mercy. It may be that everyone will receive mercy, but it is equally likely that some will and some will not. Since the possibility is provided for in this particular verse we are forced to search for other scriptures that are more clear. Scripture interprets itself. When one verse or passage is ambiguous there will be others able to decide the question.
 

logabe

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The justice of God is tempered by mercy. The level of mercy that one
receives is measured by the mercy that the sinner has shown to others.
James 2:13 says,

13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has
shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

This works both ways. If a person is totally merciless, then God will be
merciless to him, and he will pay the last farthing (Matt. 18:34). But on
the other hand, if the sinner has been merciful to others and has had
compassion for others who have sinned against him, then that is the
level of mercy that God will grant to him.

This principle is established by the law of equal weights and measures
in Deut. 25:13-16. This is also what Jesus meant in Matt. 7:2 when He
said,

2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and
by your standard of measure, it will be measured to
you.

Of course, keep in mind that a biblical judge did not have the right to
judge any man by his own standard. He was called to administer the
law by the mind of Christ, and so his judgment was not supposed to
be his own. He was called to be the spokesman of God, and so it was
his responsibility to know the mind of Christ.

It is the same with us today. It is one thing to deliver a message of
judgment that God has spoken or decreed. It is quite another to
assume the role of a judge and to judge according to one's own
understanding of the law. If the supreme Judge has not authorized
such a judgment, or if He has not revealed His mind, then men should
not presume to know the judgment of God against any man or church
or nation.

Most presumptive judges look at the sin, and then they look at the law,
and on that basis alone, they judge others. The problem is that they
usually do not have a revelation of the mercy factor, and they do not
know how merciful the sinner has been. Hence, they do not know how
much mercy ought to be applied in each individual case.

It is better not to judge at all than to judge without some revelation of
the sinner's heart. Most judgments people make today are based totally
upon a law (whether God's or man's). Few people understand the mercy
factor built into the divine law.

Logabe
 

jiggyfly

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For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.-- It doesn't read: For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he WILL have mercy on everyone. The wording of the verse does not categorically include everyone will receive mercy. It may be that everyone will receive mercy, but it is equally likely that some will and some will not. Since the possibility is provided for in this particular verse we are forced to search for other scriptures that are more clear. Scripture interprets itself. When one verse or passage is ambiguous there will be others able to decide the question.

care to comment on the other scripture?
 

Duckybill

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2 Thessalonians 2:13 (KJV)
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Can God do that? Of course.