The Day Of The LORD - What Is It?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are assuming that Paul is referring to the same event that Jesus is referring to when he answers the disciple's question "Tell us, when will these things be? What is the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?" (Matthew 24:3). But he is not!
....

Well Paul is... pointing back to the GATHERING OF THE SAINTS EVENT that Lord Jesus taught in His Olivet discourse. That is beyond doubt.

I must assume that you believe in a false Pre-trib Rapture theory, and are thus wrongly taught that the gathering of the saints event in Christ's Olivet discourse is not the same events by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4. Sorry, but it is... the very SAME events that Jesus taught.

Now about what Jesus' disciples asked Him while on the Mount of Olives, they asked what would be the sign of His coming also (Matthew 24:3). So why would anyone want to try and steer around that, because Lord Jesus answered them in those Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scriptures, which ARE the same events of Paul's gathering of the Church per 1 Thessalonians 4.

And I already gave the direct comparisons between those events Jesus taught and what Paul taught, which reveals they are about the SAME gathering event.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,032
1,119
113
67
Thomaston Georgia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Day of the LORD
Men who mistake God’s exercise of long-suffering and patience as slackness, tardiness, slowness on His part and who are themselves slow in taking action for salvation will be suddenly overtaken by destruction from God. The apostle Peter warned against such a mistaken, careless, unwise course of action by saying: “Yet YHWH(Jehovah's) day [he·meʹra Ky·rıʹou, Greek; day of the Lord] will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered.”(2 Peter 3:10)

The day for the end of the “heavens and the earth that are now” will come without fail, for it is part of God’s declared purpose. His time for its arrival is fixed in his own timetable. Clergymen of Christendom who continue to use religion as a means to exploit credulous people will find that they are the ones slumbering and asleep to the order of events, and not God himself. “Also, with covetousness they will exploit you with counterfeit words. But as for them, the judgment from of old is not moving slowly, and the destruction of them is not slumbering.”(2 Peter 2:3)

The coming of YHWH day as a thief in the night is commented on also by the apostle Paul, when he writes to the Christians in Thessalonica, Macedonia: “Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. For you yourselves know quite well that YHWH day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. Whenever it is that they are saying: ‘Peace and security!’ then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3) YHWH God Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ will be used by YHWH God as an executional agent on YHWH day, he warned his disciples of the thieflike approach of the day for execution of judgment to begin, saying: “But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. On this account you too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.”(Matthew 24:43, 44; Luke 12:39, 40)

On YHWH day mankind will find itself enveloped in a fiery situation for this ungodly system of things. The “heavens,” “elements,” and “earth” that mankind has known for thousands of years will be affected ruinously. The “heavens” that will pass away are the political governments that have served as “the superior authorities” by God’s permission and that have prolonged their operation in spite of the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 C.E. They have loomed high like mountains on earth’s scene and have overshadowed the affairs of human society. The priests, prophets and clergymen of religion have meddled with the governments and have tried to involve themselves as an integral part of governments, in many lands producing a marriage of State and Church. In marriages of Church and State that still continue in this “time of the end,” the religious partner is the lesser, the subordinate one and is merely tolerated.

Those governmental “heavens” will pass away “with a hissing noise,” like the prolonged sounding of the letter “s.” This whizzing sound could be like that caused by the rapid passing of an object through the air. This hissing noise could, accordingly, denote a rapid passing away of these governmental “heavens.” This rapid passing of the governmental heavens will not come about by the action of radical, revolutionary parties among men, for they themselves would only substitute the overthrown government with one of their own. Rather, the passing of political “heavens” will be by the act of YHWH God. Since they have overlived the “appointed times of the Gentile nations,” it would only be fitting for them to be rushed off the scene as in an action that is long overdue. The “hissing noise,” regardless of whatever sound sensation it produces, will be heard by the inhabitants of the earth.

The “elements” that will become “intensely hot” and then “be dissolved” are not the so-called “four elements” of the alchemists of the Middle Ages, namely, fire, water, earth and air. “Elements” mean the basic parts of which something, as an organism, is composed. “Elements” suggest certain things lined up in a certain order, like the letters of the alphabet of a language. The “elements” are mentioned as being distinct from the “heavens” and the “earth,” and as not being primary component parts of such. Between our literal heavens and earth there is the atmosphere, in which mankind lives, breathing it for sustenance of life. This atmosphere is composed of a mixture of gases and so has elemental parts. Similarly, there is a spirit that pervades the earthly realm of mankind, which mankind breathes and which animates them, moving them as by an invisible force to act, think, speak and plan the way that they do. This is the spirit of the world. It has nothing to do with the spirit of God but is at enmity with it. Hence, God is against that worldly spirit in all its elemental parts. On His day he must dissolve it, destroy it in the heat of his anger. All the doctrines, arrangements and schemes that express this worldly spirit and result from it must be dissolved, reduced to nothing, with it.

Not only the “heavens” and the “elements” come in for divine attention, but “earth and the works in it” must also. These “will be discovered.” (2 Peter 3:10) They will be found out. “Earth” in this case symbolizes human society that is separate and distinct from the anointed remnant of spiritual Israelites and from the “great crowd” who are in the spiritual paradise and who are worshiping YHWH God in his spiritual temple. (Revelation 7:15) The expression “the works in it” refers, not to the deeds or acts of conduct of the earthly human society, but to their works of construction, the things that human society builds and produces in the way of structures. Such “works” show the materialistic viewpoint, the earthly tendencies, of this human society, this symbolic “earth.”

Why is it said, “and earth and the works in it will be discovered [literally, will be found]”? Why “be discovered,” “be found,” instead of “be burned up,” as in the old King James Authorized Version reading of 2 Peter 3:10? Their being “discovered” or “found” does not mean that on YHWH day they will merely be laid bare to view and be left lying thus exposed. In 2 Peter 3:7 it is stated that, by God’s word, “the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire.” Accordingly, the “earth and the works in it” will not escape the “fire” of destruction any more than the “heavens” and the “elements” will do so. They will be “discovered” or “found” by the fire. The fire will overtake the “earth and the works in it” also. They will be “discovered” or “found” to be combustible, just as the symbolic “heavens” and the symbolic “elements” are combustible. The destructive “fire” of YHWH day will prove that. So the sense of the discovery or finding is like that in 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, where the apostle Paul writes:
"Each one’s work will become manifest, for the day will show it up, because it will be revealed by means of fire; and the fire itself will prove what sort of work each one’s is. If anyone’s work that he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward; if anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss...”

YHWH God “day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men” will come as a thief upon the symbolic “earth and the works in it,” and the “fire” of that day for executing divine judgment will prove them to be inflammable, subject to incineration. They will go up in flames. They will not withstand, survive the fiery day of the Lord God YHW. The prophetic words of Zephaniah 1:14-18 have solemn significance for our day: “The great day of YHWH is near. It is near, and there is a hurrying of it very much. The sound of the day of YHWH is bitter. There a mighty man is letting out a cry. . . . Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to deliver them in the day of YHWH God fury; but by the fire of his zeal the whole earth will be devoured, because he will make an extermination, indeed a terrible one, of all the inhabitants of the earth.”
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
It says Jesus will descend from heaven, i.e. he will return to the Earth. Then the dead in Christ will be resurrected to life by God ("Now God raised up the Lord, and will also raise us up by his power", 1 Corinthians 6:14) - so they were not previously alive, living neither on the Earth nor in heaven. Then the living Christians will be raptured (changed and snatched) to join them and Jesus.

This is a separate event from the "gathering" passages in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. In that event there is darkening of the sun and moon, etc., and no resurrection of dead Christians, and Jesus sends angels to gather the "chosen ones".

What happens to a person at death ?

Please do a study on the word resurrection as it has more than one meaning .
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,541
409
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Well Paul is... pointing back to the GATHERING OF THE SAINTS EVENT that Lord Jesus taught in His Olivet discourse. That is beyond doubt.
Perhaps these words of Paul will create a little doubt for you? ;)

1 Thessalonians 1:
(10) and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come.​

1 Thessalonians 5:
(2) For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night.
...
(9) For God didn’t appoint us to wrath, but to the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,​

Romans 5:
(9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God’s wrath through him.​

God not appointing Christians to His wrath, but delivering and saving them from His wrath, seems to be in harmony with Christians being removed before God's wrath (the Day of The LORD) rather than coming for them after God's wrath has been completed.
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,541
409
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
What happens to a person at death ?
His (or her) conscious thoughts will cease, just like when we're in a deep sleep.

Psalms 146:4 (WEB):
(4) His spirit departs, and he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish.​

Ecclesiastes 9 (WEB):
(5) For the living know that they will die, but the dead don’t know anything, neither do they have any more a reward; for their memory is forgotten.
(10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, nor plan, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, where you are going.
 

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
3,808
1,855
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Now please think [ prayerfully And ] carefully. Will anyone be saying,
“Peace and safety” at the close of the “great tribulation”?
Okay if you do as well. Look at history. What happens after every war? Think. Peace. In fact, peace only comes after war times. What happened right WW1, WWII OR ANY OTHER WAR? PEACE.
So we see the war in Ukraine and possibly next the big one in the Middle when Iran and 9 other nations attack Israel. Israel will certainly retaliate. They have enough nukes to wipe out all Islamic nations - if they wanted to. It might be a nuclear war and may only lady a few hours and be over and what they want? Peace. Then sudden destruction comes down on them - this time from the Lord.

As we know, the seven years of the tribulation will begin with the rider on the
“white horse” (Rev. 6:1,
As you know maybe ... I don't know that. I think the GT is 3 1/3 years - but I could be wrong.
I think the Four Horsemen are already out, since the pandemic started. Of course time will tell and prive me right or wrong.
The death toll caused nynthem will amount to 2 billion. A normal year amounts to 60 million. So if we start seeing hundreds of millions dying of pestilence, famine and wars very soon, we are in it. If not, it is at least the Beginning of Sorrows, a prelude to the GT. ??

There we have it! Our “post-tribulation” brethren say that “The Day Of The LORD
follows the tribulation.” Paul, in I Thessalonians 5:1-3, makes it clear that The Day
Of The LORD includes the tribulation. They have men in the closing, most terrible
hours of the tribulation saying, “Peace and safety”!
I think the Post-Tribbers are wrong too. CHRIST COMES IN THE MIDDLE OF IT ALL AND THEN FINISHES IT QUICKLY. It may be that the Day of the Lord is not 1 day, but 1000 years, since judgment comes before and after the Millennial Kingdom. And why wouldn't we describe His entire reign as the Day of the Lord? Makes sense to me.
But if it was 1 day, then The Day of the Lord would certainly be at His Coming/our resurrection and when every eye sees Him! That will be the day, when the mystery if God is revealed. Everyone will finally know, regardless of whose side they chose.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Perhaps these words of Paul will create a little doubt for you? ;)
....

Too bad, nothing you can say will change that Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 was covering the very SAME gathering of the saints event that Lord Jesus was in His Olivet discourse! You've been presented with the DIRECT BIBLICAL SCRIPTURE EVIDENCE of this. So your rejection is a rejection of the WRITTEN SCRIPTURE...

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 = Matthew 24:30-31 with the saints being gathered FROM HEAVEN.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 = Mark 13:27 with the saints that are gathered FROM THE EARTH.
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
His (or her) conscious thoughts will cease, just like when we're in a deep sleep.

Psalms 146:4 (WEB):
(4) His spirit departs, and he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish.​

Ecclesiastes 9 (WEB):
(5) For the living know that they will die, but the dead don’t know anything, neither do they have any more a reward; for their memory is forgotten.
(10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, nor plan, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, where you are going.

See that's the problem , the soul sleep thing . Where is Christ?
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,541
409
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
See that's the problem , the soul sleep thing . Where is Christ?
Why is it a problem for you? As for where Jesus is, I'm sure you know - Colossians 3:1 (WEB):

(1) If then you were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God.​

It just so happened that last night I watched an episode of Amazing Facts on the God Channel (UK), that was about this very subject. They offer a free paper or digital download (PDF) about the subject, named The Afterlife Mystery Magazine. I recommend that you have a read of it - The Afterlife Mystery Magazine - Paper or Digital Download | Free Offer | Amazing Facts.
 

shortangel

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2020
1,057
1,254
113
50
Oregon
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
i think The Day Of The Lord is where God judges the earth and pours out his Spirit and we have an end times revivial, but some bible scholars say that's when Jesus comes and gets the church
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why is it a problem for you? As for where Jesus is, I'm sure you know - Colossians 3:1 (WEB):

(1) If then you were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God.​

The problem he's trying to point out to you is how you are not... staying with the actual Bible Scripture, but pick n' choose which verses you use to 'try' and support the Jew's theory of soul sleep.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
KJV

In the above, Peter is pointing to how Lord Jesus, at His resurrection, went to the "spirits in prison" (in the heavenly dimension), and preached The Gospel to them. Some on the false 'soul sleep' doctrine of the Jews instead claim Jesus only proclaimed His Victory to those "spirits in prison". No, because Peter reveals those "spirits in prison" are about the dead who lived on earth back prior to the flood even.

That Jesus would do that was prophecy in Isaiah 42:7, and includes the idea that Jesus would lead those who believed out of the darkness of the heavenly prison house.

And just to make certain we know that Jesus preached The Gospel to the dead there, literally, Peter said the following in the next chapter...

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

KJV

Even with the malefactor crucified along with Jesus that believe on Him, Jesus told him that he would be with Him that day... in Paradise (Luke 23:43).
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
i think The Day Of The Lord is where God judges the earth and pours out his Spirit and we have an end times revivial, but some bible scholars say that's when Jesus comes and gets the church

The "day of the Lord" is the actual final day of this present world, and... it is the ONLY day that Jesus returns to gather His faithful Church. Notice I said faithful Church, for there are many brethren that are not listening to Him in His Word about these things.

1. In 1 Thessalonians 5, Apostle Paul pointed to the future "day of the Lord" by a "sudden destruction" upon the wicked and deceived who will be saying, "Peace and safety" just prior to that. Paul said that "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night". That idea "as a thief" comes from the analogy Lord Jesus used in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 for the day of His future coming to gather His saints (i.e., His Church).

Many brethren miss Lord Jesus' Message in Matthew 24 when He said we'd hear of wars and rumors and wars, but don't be troubled, because the END is not yet. That means the END (i.e., the time of "great tribulation"), is to be a time of world peace, opposite of wars and rumors of wars, the "Peace and safety" Paul showed the deceived will be saying just prior to that "day of the Lord".

2. In 2 Peter 3:10-13, Peter taught also that the "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night", burning man's works off this earth, much like how God's floods brought an end to man's works on the earth previously using water. This next time Peter says God will use His consuming fire to do it. The Greek for the word "elements" in that 2 Peter 3:10 verse means an 'orderly arrangement', like a world earth age. It's not about man's material matter atomic weights chart. It's about the end of this present world on that "day of the Lord".

3. In Revelation 16:15-17, Lord Jesus revealed that He comes "as a thief", and He then warns His faithful Church to keep their garments, lest they walk naked and in shame (spiritually). Then He shows the gathering of the nations to battle at Armageddon, and then the 7th Vial is poured out into the 'air', ending this present world and destroying that army that will come upon Jerusalem on the last day of this world. In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus linked the day of His future coming with that idea of His future coming being "as a thief".


Thus the "as a thief" idea is SOLIDLY LINKED IN SCRIPTURE TO MEAN:

1. the day of Christ's future return and gathering of the Church,

2. and the END of this present world by God's consuming fire and destroying of the sinners out of the earth, as per the OT prophets too.
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
Why is it a problem for you? As for where Jesus is, I'm sure you know - Colossians 3:1 (WEB):

(1) If then you were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God.​

It just so happened that last night I watched an episode of Amazing Facts on the God Channel (UK), that was about this very subject. They offer a free paper or digital download (PDF) about the subject, named The Afterlife Mystery Magazine. I recommend that you have a read of it - The Afterlife Mystery Magazine - Paper or Digital Download | Free Offer | Amazing Facts.

We rise at death ,never to come back to this dirt .

Ecclesiastes 12:6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern."

The "cistern" is the clay flesh body that our soul lives in. The cistern is built to hold the water or life that is within the flesh body, but once that bowl is broken the water or life leaks out of it, just as water leaks out of this flesh body. The "silver cord" is what holds your soul and the spirit together with the flesh body.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."

The spirit is the intellect of the soul, that gives the soul its identity. This is not complicated. When the body dies, and goes to the grave, the physical body will never have a use again, for the soul has returned to the Father, to God who created it in the first place. Because this is a promise of God, it should be what all Christians look forward to all the days of their lives. That is the day that we will be with the Father and Jesus Christ is heaven, not at some distant time in the future.

When man gets to the point of not being able to understand this promise that at death the soul goes immediately to be with the Father, then he form his religious man made ideas, and sidesteps what God's Word teaches. Friend, it takes only a short time for the body to decay, and there is no body there to resurrect. The body returns to the dirt that it is made of, and the soul departs from that body never to return to it.

God creates the flesh body for your soul to occupy, and He places your spirit within your soul. That is what gives your soul its identity. Then just as God gave it for a brief time, He will take your soul back to Himself, when the flesh body stops having life.

Thanks for the link, however I don't need it .
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,541
409
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

In the above, Peter is pointing to how Lord Jesus, at His resurrection, went to the "spirits in prison" (in the heavenly dimension), and preached The Gospel to them. Some on the false 'soul sleep' doctrine of the Jews instead claim Jesus only proclaimed His Victory to those "spirits in prison". No, because Peter reveals those "spirits in prison" are about the dead who lived on earth back prior to the flood even.

Did Jesus preach only to the "spirits" that were disobedient in the days of Noah? If these "spirits" are humans then what about all those people that have lived since (and before) the days of Noah? Why are these "spirits" in prison? The Scriptures tell us that our thoughts cease when we die, so there is no need to imprison dead souls.

The clue is Noah. The flood was created because of the disobedient sons of God, angels, who took on human form and forcibly took women and mated with them, producing a hybrid race of giants called the Nephilim - Genesis 6:4 (WEB):

(4) The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when God’s sons came in to men’s daughters and had children with them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

That resulted in a corruption of the gene pool of mankind and increased wickedness in the world, so God decided to wipe out mankind, preserving just Noah and his family whose genetics had not been corrupted ("Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations", or unblemished in genetics, Genesis 6:9).


It was these angels that are the spirit beings that have been imprsioned (because they are still alive and conscious, not like dead humans who are not conscious). Jude 1:6 (WEB):

(6) Angels who didn’t keep their first domain, but deserted their own dwelling place, he has kept in everlasting bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day.​

Peter also confirmed this in 2 Peter 2:4 (WEB):

(4) For if God didn’t spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness to be reserved for judgment;​

And just to make certain we know that Jesus preached The Gospel to the dead there, literally, Peter said the following in the next chapter...

1 Peter 4:
6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
God considers everyone that is under condemnation of sin as dead. As Jesus said, Matthew 8:22 (WEB):

(22) But Jesus said to him, “Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead.”​
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Did Jesus preach only to the "spirits" that were disobedient in the days of Noah? If these "spirits" are humans then what about all those people that have lived since (and before) the days of Noah? Why are these "spirits" in prison? The Scriptures tell us that our thoughts cease when we die, so there is no need to imprison dead souls.


No, we still have awareness after death of our flesh. Those 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4 Scriptures are one proof of it. 2 Corinthians 5 is another, by Apostle Paul, to be absent from the body is to be present with The Lord.

We each have another 'body' according to Apostle Paul, one not made with hands, one from God, eternal in the heavens (2 Corinthians 5:1-5).

What you are relying on is an old Jewish teaching about 'soul sleep', the idea that our soul also dies with our flesh. Jesus simply showed that's not true per Matthew 10:28. The New Testament reveals more about this, whereas the Old Testament not so much. It is a mistake to believe that our soul is of earth matter like our flesh body is. Our soul with spirit are of that other dimension.

But Solomon did reveal in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 that there is a "silver cord", that if it is severed, our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, but our 'spirit' goes back to God Who gave it. And in Luke 23:43, Jesus told the malefactor crucified with Him that he would be with Him that day in Paradise.

Then in 2 Corinthians 12, Apostle Paul spoke of one who was caught up to Paradise, to the third heaven, and whether in the body, or out of the body, he didn't know, but that God knew.
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,541
409
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
No, we still have awareness after death of our flesh. Those 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4 Scriptures are one proof of it.

So you're wiling to cling to your interpretation which means that the Scriptures are conflicting, saying opposite things. That should be a clue that your interpretation is incorrect!

We each have another 'body' according to Apostle Paul, one not made with hands, one from God, eternal in the heavens (2 Corinthians 5:1-5).

Paul wrote that if there is no resurrection then the Christians that have died are perished. They don't continue living in heaven in a spirit being form. They only are given their new spirit body when they are resurrected to life; only then are they alive again. 1 Corinthians 15:17-23 (WEB):

(17) If Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain; you are still in your sins.
(18) Then they also who are fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
(19) If we have only hoped in Christ in this life, we are of all men most pitiable.
(20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep.
(21) For since death came by man, the resurrection of the dead also came by man.
(22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
(23) But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ’s, at his coming.

What you are relying on is an old Jewish teaching about 'soul sleep', the idea that our soul also dies with our flesh. Jesus simply showed that's not true per Matthew 10:28.
I'm relying on the words of Jesus. Jesus revealed the truth when he said, John 11:11-14 (WEB):

(11) ... he said to them, “Our friend, Lazarus, has fallen asleep, but I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep.”
(12) The disciples therefore said, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.”
(13) Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he spoke of taking rest in sleep.
(14) So Jesus said to them plainly then, “Lazarus is dead.​

And again in Matthew 9:18-25, when Jesus restored a dead girl to life:

(18) While he told these things to them, behold, a ruler came and worshiped him, saying, “My daughter has just died, but come and lay your hand on her, and she will live.”
(19) Jesus got up and followed him, as did his disciples.
(23) When Jesus came into the ruler’s house, and saw the flute players, and the crowd in noisy disorder,
(24) he said to them, “Make room, because the girl isn’t dead, but sleeping.” They were ridiculing him.
(25) But when the crowd was put out, he entered in, took her by the hand, and the girl arose.​

Paul was in agreement with Jesus (as we all should be!) when he said, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (WEB):

(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
(52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.​

Paul, like Jesus, was not talking about actual sleeping, but death. If he was talking about sleeping then he was lying, because everyone sleeps!
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So you're wiling to cling to your interpretation which means that the Scriptures are conflicting, saying opposite things. That should be a clue that your interpretation is incorrect!


In The Gospel, Jesus made it specific that He would be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. But in other Scripture examples, He said He would rise the third day. So is that a contradiction? No, of course not, because common sense teaches us that a calendar day does not only include just the day part, but also the night. But for precise calculation, the day and night is counted separately to understand the day and time of Christ's crucifixion and His later resurrection.

So it's really a matter if one WANTS to see, or create a contradiction in God's Word, when in reality there's not one there at all, but that it's simply a matter of how The Bible is understood as a whole, letting God's Word interpret God's Word.

Another example, in Matthew 25, Jesus said when He comes into His future glory and sit upon His throne, that He will separate the nations, putting the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left hand. And then He showed the goats will go into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. But is that precisely how the rest of Bible Scripture shows what will happen after His future coming? No. So did He contradict Himself there? No.

In Christ's Book of Revelation, He revealed a "thousand years" period of His reign with His elect over the unsaved nations. And that only after that "thousand years" reign will the wicked, the devil, death, and even hell, will go into the "lake of fire".

The difference is what? The difference is not ALL Scripture gives ALL the detail of an event. ALL the details are spread out in the various Books of God's Word. This is why in the four Gospel Books there are small details that are different that each Apostle witness gave of Christ's Mission to die on the cross.

Why do you think God would do that with His Word, i.e., spread out the details between chapters and Books? It points to only HIS faithful servants will actually read and study all of His Word to be able to put all the details together in the mind in understanding.

Those constantly looking for contradictions instead thrive on the fact that there are different readings in Scripture, depending on where one looks, so those don't represent His faithful servants that study all of His Word. They represent the 'doubters' of His Word. And thus He won't show those anything (i.e., not give those understanding in His Word).