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Behold

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I also do believe that Jesus is capable of blotting a name out of the lamb's book of life (Revelation says as much).

That verse is talking to the reason, they are blotted out.
They died, having rejected Christ.......never born again.
So, if you are born again, you have NOT rejected Christ, and you are not associated with any Eternal Judgement.

Let me show you something.
In Eternity, there is only One "sinner" Judgement, for one Sin.
Its the sin of UNBELIEF......as that is the UNPARDONABLE sin.

Thousands of people, water baptized, went to hell today.
Why?
Because they committed the ONE ETERNAL SIN of NOT ALLOWING GOD TO FORGIVE THEM..

That is "Christ Rejection", never being born again, = The Unpardonable sin.
That SIN is the reason that your name is not found in the Lamb's Book, after you die.
 
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Misty Williams

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"That verse is talking to the reason, they are blotted out.
They died, having rejected Christ.......never born again."

I don't see it that way at all.
In the verse, Jesus is talking to the church of Sardis. They were, at one time, believers:

“I know all the things you do, and that you have a reputation for being alive—but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what little remains, for even what is left is almost dead. I find that your actions do not meet the requirements of my God. 3 Go back to what you heard and believed at first; hold to it firmly. Repent and turn to me again. If you don’t wake up, I will come to you suddenly, as unexpected as a thief.

4 “Yet there are some in the church in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes with evil. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.

So..my interpretation here...is there were believers (and still are some according to verse 4) but many of them turned away (verse 3). He was urging them to to turn back to Him before they were erased from the Book of Life.

Regardless, as I said, I knew there would be folks who disagreed on this topic and I really don't want to debate it here out of respect to the OP. I certainly respect your point of view :)
 

Behold

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"That verse is talking to the reason, they are blotted out.
They died, having rejected Christ.......never born again."

“I know all the things you do, and that you have a reputation for being alive—but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what little remains, for even what is left is almost dead. I find that your actions do not meet the requirements of my God. 3 Go back to what you heard and believed at first; hold to it firmly. Repent and turn to me again. If you don’t wake up, I will come to you suddenly, as unexpected as a thief.
:)4 “Yet there are some in the church in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes with evil. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.

Well, verse 3 says that Christ will go to those "unexpected as a Thief".
He does not say, i will erase your name, nor does He say, "you will go to hell".
So, you have interpreted it the way you want. But your verse does not say anything about Judgment, Hell, the Lake of Fire, or the 2nd Death.


And look at 5.
The context is.....>"who are Victorious".
And who is that?
Its all the born again.. 1 John 5:4

Christ said "I have overcome the world"... and the born again, are in Spiritual UNION with Him, and Christ is IN THEM.... so, His "overcoming" is the same for the Born again., who are "One with God"..>"In Christ"
 
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Carl Emerson

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You make excellent points (as always). I believe...and it saddens me to say this because I know God is grieved by it...there are going to be a LOT of "Christians" that are going to hear "I never knew you, depart from me". If you believe in the rapture (I do), then you can extend that by saying...I suspect there will be a lot of shocked people sitting in church pews after the rapture. It's unfortunate, but how can you be a child of the living God if you have no desire to change in you? If you don't feel the unction of the Holy Spirit to do what is right in the sight of God? Far be it from me to say who is and isn't in the lamb's book...thank goodness, that's far above my pay grade...but it's something to consider when someone is talking about willfully walking away from God and expecting the gates to swing wide for them in the hereafter.
p.s. I don't really consider them lost and pray for them to get rid of wrong thinking and have a personal relationship with God.

Well we truely work out our own salvation with fear and trembling...

Being prodigal son makes it a lot easier to grasp how deep and wide the Love of God is...
 

BloodBought 1953

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Last words BB...
I'm not making up my own faith because I happened to have learned my faith in two different denominations, and a 3rd I know really well, and they teach the same as I'm posting here.

YOU, OTOH, are studying at home, reading, reading, reading, coming up with your own ideas.
Listening to preachers that OK what you believe, the ones that believe in cheap grace and easy believism.
Not my phrases, BTW, they are commonly accepted phrases within the Christian community to denote believers such as yourself that have some odd idea that Jesus did it all and so we are to do nothing.

What Jesus did is open the gates of heaven so that whoever wants to enter, can.
There are conditions however.
Yes. Conditions.
Please learn what they are since you're not on the correct path right now.

Jesus died to forgive the sins of the whole world, from the beginning till now.
There are different theories of atonement...I like the one that states that He bought us back from satan.
It's called the Ransom Theory.

I also like the Moral Influence Theory.
Which one do you adhere to mostly?

I say mostly because each one has a different version of truth,,,but they are all true.

YOU should really stop preaching some religion that is not the Christian faith.
It would be nice.





My “ Theory” can be Summed up by the Lyrics that can be found in Three Songs that you and other hypocrites have sung countless times but never came “ CLOSE” to actually Believing ......The First, as far as Salvation is concerned would be “ NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD”..... The Second song , which you don’t Believe declares “ Nothing of myself I bring— it’s only to the Cross that I Cling”......The Third Song That your Grace -Rejecting Confusion blinds you To , would be “ Just as I Am, without one plea—-except that Thy Blood was Shed for Me”.....

In a Nutshell? JESUS SAVES.Period.
 

Carl Emerson

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"That verse is talking to the reason, they are blotted out.
They died, having rejected Christ.......never born again."

I don't see it that way at all.
In the verse, Jesus is talking to the church of Sardis. They were, at one time, believers:

“I know all the things you do, and that you have a reputation for being alive—but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what little remains, for even what is left is almost dead. I find that your actions do not meet the requirements of my God. 3 Go back to what you heard and believed at first; hold to it firmly. Repent and turn to me again. If you don’t wake up, I will come to you suddenly, as unexpected as a thief.

4 “Yet there are some in the church in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes with evil. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.

So..my interpretation here...is there were believers (and still are some according to verse 4) but many of them turned away (verse 3). He was urging them to to turn back to Him before they were erased from the Book of Life.

Regardless, as I said, I knew there would be folks who disagreed on this topic and I really don't want to debate it here out of respect to the OP. I certainly respect your point of view :)

When Paul addresses a Church he is addressing Wheat and Tares.

Some in the congregation were seeking but had not yet found.

There are a few times in scripture when the author is addressing only the elect but this is rare.

So to assume the fallen were saved is not really conclusive.
 

BloodBought 1953

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Not my phrases, BTW, they are commonly accepted phrases within the Christian community to denote believers such as yourself that have some odd idea that Jesus did it all and so we are to do nothing




There is no such thing as “Cheap Grace”——- it’s better than Cheap—- it’s FREE! Many Blasphemers refer to it as “ Greasy Grace “ ........If this is True, that “ Greasy Grace” must have been purchased with “ The GREASY Blood Of Jesus”......You will answer for that someday—- You and your Entire “ christian community”......Do you think I give a Rat’s Patootie what the “ Fallen From Grace” Crowd thinks? Think again, Ms. Religionist.....
 
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BloodBought 1953

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YOU should really stop preaching some religion that is not the Christian faith.
It would be nice.



My Religion is the “ Jesus Plus Nothing” Religion......
“YOUR” religion would be Judaism with a little bit of Jesus sprinkled in.....and “ THAT’S being kind...
 
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Misty Williams

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So to assume the fallen were saved is not really conclusive.

Well I would agree with you if it were not the way the verses are written to imply that originally, people did believe but had turned away (fallen away). Still, as I said in my post, actual real point is...were you really saved to begin with?

Here's the thing. A lot of people say the sinner's prayer for reasons other than a genuine, heartfelt, cry out to God. Some feel pressured into it, some do it "just in case" like they're taking out an insurance policy to cover them just in case there is a God, a get out of jail free card, and there are many other examples.

They then believe they are Christians, yet they go out into the world and act like the Devil with no desire to change. If you have the indwelling Holy Spirit, you WANT to change and He will work with you greatly to achieve that over your lifetime. As I say, I may not be where I need to be yet, but thank God I'm not where I used to be!

If you can go out there and commit all kinds of sin with absolutely no remorse, no tugging of the Holy Spirit urging you to change, were you saved to begin with? I honestly believe the answer there is...not likely.

But it will not be me that judges (thank the Lord).

I tend not to like to bring up controversial subjects on forums because I genuinely don't want to rub anyone the wrong way but at the same time, if I can inspire someone to take a hard look at their salvation, maybe it will encourage them to really get right with God.

There is grace, lots of it, but there is also faith which require action on our part. If we're not ACTING in faith, we are not in faith and it takes faith to get to heaven, can we agree on that? :)

God bless!
 
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Carl Emerson

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There is grace, lots of it, but there is also faith which require action on our part. If we're not ACTING in faith, we are not in faith and it takes faith to get to heaven, can we agree on that? :)

God bless!

Well the way I see it is that Faith comes from hearing the Word of Christ.

His chosen are drawn by the Holy Spirit and surrender to His will.

These folk then receive the indwelling presence and are sealed in Salvation, adopted into His Family and cooperate with His purpose for them.

Their eternal status is solid so if they get drawn into sin, the indwelling fear of Him will kick in and stops them from sinning to the extent of loosing salvation.

Their eternal rewards can be forfeited but not their eternal life.

I think that those who hammer away about loosing salvation are coming from a wrong spirit.

I was in rebellion for 11 years and was then confronted by the One who leaves the 99 goes after the one. I was born again about 25 years earlier.

Many thought I was beyond salvation.

If I wasn't born again it would have been a different outcome and I likely wouldn't be here today.

Once you are in the fold you are in the fold otherwise you have to ignore a lot of scripture.

The threat of falling away is addressed to folks in fellowship who are not yet born again.

When you understand what being born again is all about the question posed by this thread is answered.

I invited the OP to participate in the exploration about what born again means on another thread but he has shown no interest.

His game is to hammer away at the believers confidence in salvation.

Jesus has not called us to a life of being in fear of losing salvation - far from it - we are to walk in worship of Him and celebrate His goodness with praise and Love.
 
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Misty Williams

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I think that those who hammer away about loosing salvation are coming from a wrong spirit.
Actually I think we agree more than we disagree here. Thus is the issue with text, sometimes the true meaning is lost in written words. I don't believe, at all, that we lose our salvation by committing sin. God is forgiveness, there is always redemption for the believer who seeks it, amen. If I lost my salvation every time I ran off at the mouth or did something I shouldn't in the eyes of God...well I don't even want to think about that! Sometimes I say something I shouldn't and within seconds the Holy Spirit is tugging at me and I have to ask for not only forgiveness from God, but anyone I may have hurt. We will be held highly accountable for the hurt we cause one another : (

What I'm referring to is folks who aren't saved to begin with (and think they are). When we ask God to forgive our sins and accept Him as Lord, there are going to be outward signs of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

There are people who were raised Christian, go to church every Sunday, but are spiritually dead. I've met folks like this, I WAS one of these folks in my life. I was raised Christian, went to church, but one day I realized I had not truly accepted Christ...I was just coasting through. If you would have asked me before, I would have said, "sure I'm going to heaven", but the fact was, I was going to hell just as fast as someone who never thought about God.

Regardless, I am in no position to judge anyone else's salvation (thank goodness).
I hope that clarifies :)
 
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BloodBought 1953

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My “ Theory” can be Summed up by the Lyrics that can be found in Three Songs that you and other hypocrites have sung countless times but never came “ CLOSE” to actually Believing ......The First, as far as Salvation is concerned would be “ NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD”..... The Second song , which you don’t Believe declares “ Nothing of myself I bring— it’s only to the Cross that I Cling”......The Third Song That your Grace -Rejecting Confusion blinds you To , would be “ Just as I Am, without one plea—-except that Thy Blood was Shed for Me”.....

In a Nutshell? JESUS SAVES.Period.




No “likes” In response to this? I’m surprised by that ....am I alone in my Thinking here with this post? I couldn’t care less about “ approval” — I just try to pass on things that I think are true that could help people— especially Newbies....just curious as to why there was not much of a positive response to what I thought was a good way to present a Valid and Biblical Doctrine....any thoughts? Any disagreements ? Thanks to anybody that responds....
 
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BloodBought 1953

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Well I would agree with you if it were not the way the verses are written to imply that originally, people did believe but had turned away (fallen away). Still, as I said in my post, actual real point is...were you really saved to begin with?

Here's the thing. A lot of people say the sinner's prayer for reasons other than a genuine, heartfelt, cry out to God. Some feel pressured into it, some do it "just in case" like they're taking out an insurance policy to cover them just in case there is a God, a get out of jail free card, and there are many other examples.

They then believe they are Christians, yet they go out into the world and act like the Devil with no desire to change. If you have the indwelling Holy Spirit, you WANT to change and He will work with you greatly to achieve that over your lifetime. As I say, I may not be where I need to be yet, but thank God I'm not where I used to be!

If you can go out there and commit all kinds of sin with absolutely no remorse, no tugging of the Holy Spirit urging you to change, were you saved to begin with? I honestly believe the answer there is...not likely.

But it will not be me that judges (thank the Lord).

I tend not to like to bring up controversial subjects on forums because I genuinely don't want to rub anyone the wrong way but at the same time, if I can inspire someone to take a hard look at their salvation, maybe it will encourage them to really get right with God.

There is grace, lots of it, but there is also faith which require action on our part. If we're not ACTING in faith, we are not in faith and it takes faith to get to heaven, can we agree on that? :)

God bless!
A



Faith “ is” an ACTION —- an “ Action” That is BASED on a Belief....
One can “ Believe” that a jet can fly—- but until you climb on Board, you have NOT shown any Trust i.e. , FAITH in it.....
 

BloodBought 1953

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Any one else prior to Abraham a candidate for salvation ???




I kinda” borrowed” this from “ Got Questions” ..... Lol....a pretty good source of info most of the time....I could not improve on this so I just passed it on...




How people were saved during the time of the Old Testament is a confusing question to some. We know that, in the New Testament era, salvation comes by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (John 1:12; Ephesians 2:8-9). Jesus is the Way (John 14:6). But, before Christ, what was the way?

A common misconception about the Old Testament way of salvation is that Jews were saved by keeping the Law. But we know from Scripture that that is not true. Galatians 3:11 says, “Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for ‘The righteous shall live by faith.’” Some might want to dismiss this passage as only applying to the New Testament, but Paul is quoting Habakkuk 2:4—salvation by faith, apart from the Law was an Old Testament principle. Paul taught that the purpose of the Law was to serve as a “tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith” (Galatians 3:24). Also, in Romans 3:20 Paul makes the point that keeping the Law did not save either Old or New Testament Jews because “no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law.” The Law was never intended to save anyone; the purpose of the Law was to make us “conscious of sin.”

If the Old Testament way of salvation was not keeping the Law, then how were people saved? Fortunately, the answer to that question is easily found in Scripture, so there can be no doubt as to what was the Old Testament way of salvation. In Romans 4 the apostle Paul makes it very clear that the Old Testament way of salvation was the same as the New Testament way, which is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. To prove this, Paul points us to Abraham, who was saved by faith: “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness” (Romans 4:3). Again, Paul quotes the Old Testament to prove his point—Genesis 15:6, this time. Abraham could not have been saved by keeping the Law, because he lived over 400 years before the Law was given!

Paul then shows that David was also saved by faith (Romans 4:6-8, quoting Psalm 32:1-2). Paul continues to establish that the Old Testament way of salvation was through faith alone. In Romans 4:23-24 he writes, “The words ‘it was credited to him’ were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.” In other words, righteousness is “credited” or given to those who have faith in God—Abraham, David, and we all share the same way of salvation.

Much of Romans and Galatians addresses the fact that there is only one way of salvation and only one gospel message. Throughout history people have tried to pervert the gospel by adding human works to it, requiring certain things to be done to “earn” salvation. But the Bible’s clear message is that the way of salvation has always been through faith. In the Old Testament, it was faith in the promise that God would send a Savior someday. Those who lived in the time of the Old Testament looked forward to the Messiah and believed God’s promise of the coming Servant of the Lord (Isaiah 53). Those who exercised such faith were saved. Today we look back on the life, death, and resurrection of the Savior and are saved by faith in Jesus Christ’s atonement for our sins (Romans 10:9-10).

The gospel is not an exclusively New Testament message. The Old Testament contained it as well: “The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’ So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith” (Galatians 3:8-9, quoting Genesis 12:3).

As early as Genesis 3:15, we see the promise of a coming Savior, and throughout the Old Testament there are hundreds of promises that the Messiah would “save His people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21; cf. Isaiah 53:5-6). Job’s faith was in the fact that he knew that his “Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth” (Job 19:25). Clearly, Old Testament saints were aware of the promised Redeemer, and they were saved by faith in that Savior, the same way people are saved today. There is no other way. Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.’ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:11-12, quoting Psalm 118:22).
 
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Carl Emerson

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No “likes” In response to this? I’m surprised by that ....am I alone in my Thinking here with this post? I couldn’t care less about “ approval” — I just try to pass on things that I think are true that could help people— especially Newbies....just curious as to why there was not much of a positive response to what I thought was a good way to present a Valid and Biblical Doctrine....any thoughts? Any disagreements ? Thanks to anybody that responds....

The reason why few responded is that in not using scripture one invites distain from the scripture only brigade.

Jesus and Paul taught plenty that was not in scripture but was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
 

marks

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No “likes” In response to this? I’m surprised by that ....am I alone in my Thinking here with this post? I couldn’t care less about “ approval” — I just try to pass on things that I think are true that could help people— especially Newbies....just curious as to why there was not much of a positive response to what I thought was a good way to present a Valid and Biblical Doctrine....any thoughts? Any disagreements ? Thanks to anybody that responds....
I agree with what you've said, but I don't agree with how you've said it.

Much love!
 

Carl Emerson

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I kinda” borrowed” this from “ Got Questions” ..... Lol....a pretty good source of info most of the time....I could not improve on this so I just passed it on...




How people were saved during the time of the Old Testament is a confusing question to some. We know that, in the New Testament era, salvation comes by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (John 1:12; Ephesians 2:8-9). Jesus is the Way (John 14:6). But, before Christ, what was the way?

A common misconception about the Old Testament way of salvation is that Jews were saved by keeping the Law. But we know from Scripture that that is not true. Galatians 3:11 says, “Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for ‘The righteous shall live by faith.’” Some might want to dismiss this passage as only applying to the New Testament, but Paul is quoting Habakkuk 2:4—salvation by faith, apart from the Law was an Old Testament principle. Paul taught that the purpose of the Law was to serve as a “tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith” (Galatians 3:24). Also, in Romans 3:20 Paul makes the point that keeping the Law did not save either Old or New Testament Jews because “no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law.” The Law was never intended to save anyone; the purpose of the Law was to make us “conscious of sin.”

If the Old Testament way of salvation was not keeping the Law, then how were people saved? Fortunately, the answer to that question is easily found in Scripture, so there can be no doubt as to what was the Old Testament way of salvation. In Romans 4 the apostle Paul makes it very clear that the Old Testament way of salvation was the same as the New Testament way, which is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. To prove this, Paul points us to Abraham, who was saved by faith: “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness” (Romans 4:3). Again, Paul quotes the Old Testament to prove his point—Genesis 15:6, this time. Abraham could not have been saved by keeping the Law, because he lived over 400 years before the Law was given!

Paul then shows that David was also saved by faith (Romans 4:6-8, quoting Psalm 32:1-2). Paul continues to establish that the Old Testament way of salvation was through faith alone. In Romans 4:23-24 he writes, “The words ‘it was credited to him’ were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.” In other words, righteousness is “credited” or given to those who have faith in God—Abraham, David, and we all share the same way of salvation.

Much of Romans and Galatians addresses the fact that there is only one way of salvation and only one gospel message. Throughout history people have tried to pervert the gospel by adding human works to it, requiring certain things to be done to “earn” salvation. But the Bible’s clear message is that the way of salvation has always been through faith. In the Old Testament, it was faith in the promise that God would send a Savior someday. Those who lived in the time of the Old Testament looked forward to the Messiah and believed God’s promise of the coming Servant of the Lord (Isaiah 53). Those who exercised such faith were saved. Today we look back on the life, death, and resurrection of the Savior and are saved by faith in Jesus Christ’s atonement for our sins (Romans 10:9-10).

The gospel is not an exclusively New Testament message. The Old Testament contained it as well: “The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’ So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith” (Galatians 3:8-9, quoting Genesis 12:3).

As early as Genesis 3:15, we see the promise of a coming Savior, and throughout the Old Testament there are hundreds of promises that the Messiah would “save His people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21; cf. Isaiah 53:5-6). Job’s faith was in the fact that he knew that his “Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth” (Job 19:25). Clearly, Old Testament saints were aware of the promised Redeemer, and they were saved by faith in that Savior, the same way people are saved today. There is no other way. Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.’ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:11-12, quoting Psalm 118:22).

The reason I asked the question was that if there are saints pre Abraham like possibly Job who some believe was quite early - then this points further to the Cross being a timeless event that exploded across all of history past present and future.

Personally I believe this and it settles the issue of being forgiven future sins.
 
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