This really grabbed me today!

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

TLHKAJ

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
6,973
8,499
113
US
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think because of your background you do not take outward manners to be the real person at all and do not coddle for fear of hurting feelings but just speak the truth.
Thank you. I don't like being sharp in my words, but where it comes to truth of scripture and where it relates to Jesus Christ, I draw a line. I just have to. He's done so much for me. I can't deny Him. You know what I mean? I have to guard my heart where it comes to the absolute truth. And we know scripture doesn't lie. God doesn't lie.

I feel the same kind of fervency and protectiveness (different, but similar) where it comes to survivors of SRA/MK, the unborn, children ....those are areas I can't be silent. I will defend them. It all comes down to truth and love.

Bless you.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Maybe this should be restated....Proverbs instructs us to seek knowledge, wisdom and understanding of God's Word.
Philippians instructs us to be Christ minded
Romans instructs us to be spiritually minded not carnal....a spiritual mind knows the hidden wisdom of God.
God indeed wants us to understand Him....Hosea says we destroyed for lack of knowledge....whom many reject.

What we cannot do is comprehend His thoughts and why He does what He does because His thoughts and ways are higher than ours.
What we need to understand about God is that which since before the earth was created had been maligned and slandered. That being His character. We need to get that right. And there are several lovingly held doctrines in Christianity, cherished by many, that utterly blaspheme, malign, and abuse the character of God. That we need to understand. That we need to fall on our knees and repent of and be forgiven for believing the lies of Satan over the revelations graciously given us in God's word.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stunnedbygrace

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,775
635
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Rev_5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

a Lamb: An emblematical representation of our Saviour's high priesthood. Rev_5:9, Rev_5:12, Rev_6:16, Rev_7:9-17, Rev_12:11, Rev_13:8, Rev_17:14, Rev_21:23, Rev_22:1, Rev_22:3; Isa_53:7-8; Joh_1:29, Joh_1:36; Act_8:32; 1Pe_1:19-20

You don't "see" it, do you F2F
J.

Rev 5:6 And I saw between the Kes (Throne) and the Arbah Chayyot (four living beings) and among the Zekenim (Elders, SHEMOT 12:21) a SEH (Lamb, YESHAYAH 53:7, Moshiach) having stood as having been slain, having sheva karnayim (horns, omnipotence), sheva eynayim (eyes, omniscience), which are the sheva ruchot (spirits) of Hashem having been sent into kol ha'aretz (all the earth).
OJB.

Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Heading in the right direction!
How did God condemn sin in the body of the Lord Jesus Christ - red text is given for assistance.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Paul at Colossians 1:15 says that Jesus is "the firstborn of all CREATION
Yes it does. Do you know any trinitarians that deny that? No? Do you ask yourself why? Let me suggest why. Because they not only believe that scripture, but also believe other texts which speak to the very same topic, but which shed more light on the matter. That is why Protestants are, or should be, Sola scriptura. They use the Bible and the Bible only to discover truth. They compare scripture with scripture. They take the whole word of God, not just picking out a text here and there to suit their preconceived opinions as you have done above. For example.
KJV John 1:3
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made

KJV Hebrews 1:1-2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.

KJV Colossians 1:13-17
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

You need to harmonize "firstborn of every creature" with "all things were made by Him", "nothing was made without Him", all things are "upheld by the word of His power" etc etc. None of that makes sense if the Son was also "made" as you suggest.


.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Johann

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,775
635
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Nothing wrong here, Christ Jesus tabernacled


Dwelt (ἐσκήνωσεν)
Literally, tabernacled, fixed, or had His tabernacle: from σκηνή, a tent or tabernacle. The verb is used only by John: in the Gospel only here, and in Rev_7:15; Rev_12:12; Rev_13:6; Rev_21:3.

It occurs in classical writings, as in Xenophon, ἐν τῷ πεδίῳ ἐσκήνου, he pitched his tent in the plain (“Anabasis,” vii., 4, 11). So Plato, arguing against the proposition that the unjust die by the inherent destructive power of evil, says that “injustice which murders others keeps the murderer alive - aye, and unsleeping too; οὕτω πόῤῥω του ὡς ἔοικεν ἐσκήνωται τοῦ θανάσιμος εἶναι, i.e., literally, so far has her tent been spread from being a house of death” (“Republic,” 610).

The figure here is from the Old Testament (Lev_27:11; 2Sa_7:6; Psa_78:67 sqq.; Eze_37:27). The tabernacle was the dwelling-place of Jehovah; the meeting-place of God and Israel.

So the Word came to men in the person of Jesus. As Jehovah adopted for His habitation a dwelling like that of the people in the wilderness, so the Word assumed a community of nature with mankind, an embodiment like that of humanity at large, and became flesh.

“That which was from the beginning, we heard, we saw, we beheld, we handled. Our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ” (1Jn_1:1-3. Compare Php_2:7, Php_2:8).

Some find in the word tabernacle, a temporary structure (see the contrast between σκῆνος, tabernacle, and οἰκοδομή, building, in 2Co_5:1), a suggestion of the transitoriness of our Lord's stay upon earth; which may well be, although the word does not necessarily imply this; for in Rev_21:3, it is said of the heavenly Jerusalem “the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will set up His tabernacle (σκηνώσει) with them.”


Dante alludes to the incarnation in the seventh canto of the “Paradiso:”
- “the human species down below
Lay sick for many centuries in great error,
Till to descend it pleased the Word of God
To where the nature, which from its own Maker
Estranged itself, He joined to Him in person
By the sole act of His eternal love.”
Among us (ἐν ἡμῖν)
In the midst of us. Compare Gen_24:3, Sept., “the Canaanites, with whom I dwell (μεθ' ὧν ἐγὼ οἰκῶ ἐν αὐτοῖς).”

The reference is to the eyewitnesses of our Lord's life. “According as the spectacle presents itself to the mind of the Evangelist, and in the words among us takes the character of the most personal recollection, it becomes in him the object of a delightful contemplation” (Godet).
The following words, as far as and including Father, are parenthetical. The unbroken sentence is: “The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth.”
Vincent

J.

‘Worthy is the Lamb that hath been slain to receive the power and riches … and glory and blessing’ Amen to that!
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Heading in the right direction!
How did God condemn sin in the body of the Lord Jesus Christ - red text is given for assistance.
Because God Himself died, paid the wages, settled the ransom, paid the price of redemption. No lesser Being could do that. No created being could lay down their life because their life is not their own. Only the Son of God had the authority to lay down His life.
, "I am the resurrection, and the life." In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. "He that hath the Son hath life." 1 John 5:12. The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life. "He that believeth in Me," said Jesus, "though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,775
635
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Because God Himself died, paid the wages, settled the ransom, paid the price of redemption. No lesser Being could do that. No created being could lay down their life because their life is not their own. Only the Son of God had the authority to lay down His life.
, "I am the resurrection, and the life." In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. "He that hath the Son hath life." 1 John 5:12. The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life. "He that believeth in Me," said Jesus, "though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

No Brakelite you went off on your own!

I asked how did God condemn our nature in the body of Jesus Christ? Hebrews 2:14-18; Romans 8:1-3

If the Christ was weak and we also share in his weakness, once again how did God righteously condemn our nature? 2 Corinthians 13:4

Not hard Brakelite.

Do you want another clue? What would make Christ an acceptable sacrifice in God's eyes? Hebrews 10:4
 
Last edited:

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I asked how did God condemn our nature in the body of Jesus Christ? Hebrews 2:14-18; Romans 8:1-3

This is very confusing…by sending Jesus in the likeness of human flesh, He freed us from fear of death and declared an end to sins control over us, because the power of sin is death. The law of sin and death is swallowed up by the law of the lifegiving Spirit in us.
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,775
635
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Just off topic, it just struck me that many of you must at some time believed that Jesus was a Son of Promise; like 2 Samuel 7:14 and Psalms 89:27 predicted that a literal descendant of David (Romans 1:3; Revelation 22:16) would become God’s firstborn. What I'm interested in knowing is how can Jesus pre-exist and still be the offspring of people not yet born? You also have the issue of Abraham & Isaac, Isaac being a Son of Promise, but unlike Isaac, you believe Jesus always existed, which of course cannot make him a Son of Promise.
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,775
635
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
This is very confusing…by sending Jesus in the likeness of human flesh, He freed us from fear of death and declared an end to sins control over us, because the power of sin is death. The law of sin and death is swallowed up by the law of the lifegiving Spirit in us.

It's confusing if you import dogma which isn't present in the text. I'm waiting for Brakelite to discern the Lords body and sacrifice to see if he can work out who the Christ truly was. I think enough doors have been opened!
 

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's confusing if you import dogma which isn't present in the text. I'm waiting for Brakelite to discern the Lords body and sacrifice to see if he can work out who the Christ truly was. I think enough doors have been opened!

I didn’t import anything…you don’t understand what I said…?
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,775
635
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
because the power of sin is death.

But Wow check that admission! Romans 6:23

You just opened another door for Brakelite without knowing.

Boy, I've not seen a person in this forum correctly identify the devil (adversary) from Hebrews 2 for a very long time.

Interesting.
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,775
635
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Just off topic, it just struck me that many of you must at some time believed that Jesus was a Son of Promise; like 2 Samuel 7:14 and Psalms 89:27 predicted that a literal descendant of David (Romans 1:3; Revelation 22:16) would become God’s firstborn. What I'm interested in knowing is how can Jesus pre-exist and still be the offspring of people not yet born? You also have the issue of Abraham & Isaac, Isaac being a Son of Promise, but unlike Isaac, you believe Jesus always existed, which of course cannot make him a Son of Promise.

It's my belief that Jesus was not in existence when those OT passages were written which means he was not in existence during the Genesis creation either. Jesus became “the Son of God with power” by his resurrection from the dead (Romans 1:4). We have come full circle in this debate because Jesus's existence isnt just connected to Adam ---->Abraham----->David etc but also to all those who have died in faith. God “has raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, You are My Son, this day have I begotten you” (Acts 13:32,33).

No matter how you juggle your dogma's Jesus became God’s firstborn by his resurrection.

Christ now stands at his Father’s right hand is which is also associated with being the firstborn Genesis 48:13-16 Acts 2:32 Hebrews 1:3 etc. etc.
 

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But Wow check that admission! Romans 6:23

You just opened another door for Brakelite without knowing.

Boy, I've not seen a person in this forum correctly identify the devil (adversary) from Hebrews 2 for a very long time.

Interesting.

I have literally no idea what you were trying to convey here…
 
  • Like
Reactions: GRACE ambassador

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
4,775
635
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I have literally no idea what you were trying to convey here…

What you said in your reply perfectly explained Hebrews 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children (you & I) are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Jesus) also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him (sin personified) that had the power of death, that is, the devil (Romans 6:23);

Question which is with @Brakelite is how did God in raising up a son in our nature through death destroy that which had the power of death?

Very simple - just the Trinity smashes this text into a thousand pieces!
 

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's my belief that Jesus was not in existence when those OT passages were written which means he was not in existence during the Genesis creation either. Jesus became “the Son of God with power” by his resurrection from the dead (Romans 1:4). We have come full circle in this debate because Jesus's existence isnt just connected to Adam ---->Abraham----->David etc but also to all those who have died in faith. God “has raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, You are My Son, this day have I begotten you” (Acts 13:32,33).

No matter how you juggle your dogma's Jesus became God’s firstborn by his resurrection.

Christ now stands at his Father’s right hand is which is also associated with being the firstborn Genesis 48:13-16 Acts 2:32 Hebrews 1:3 etc. etc.

What a mess.

16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of Goddescending like a dove and alighting on him.17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

God called Him his Son before He was resurrected.
 

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What you said in your reply perfectly explained Hebrews 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children (you & I) are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Jesus) also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him (sin personified) that had the power of death, that is, the devil (Romans 6:23);

Question which is with @Brakelite is how did God in raising up a son in our nature through death destroy that which had the power of death?

Very simple - just the Trinity smashes this text into a thousand pieces!

Actually, what you said I was importing was a Romans passage….

Life in the Spirit

8 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. 2 And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. 3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. 4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: face2face