This really grabbed me today!

stunnedbygrace said:

Can’t figure out what that sentence means, sorry.

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God took Moses life Deuteronomy 34:5-6...nothing for Him to take it again.

stunnedbygrace said:

I’ve also wondered about those who died and were raised to life again, like Lazarus. If it’s appointed to a man to die once, and since we don’t have any accounts of them dying a second time, did God maybe just take them too, rather than them dying a second time?

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I dunno if the statement 'it’s appointed for a man to die once' can be made to walk on all fours so to speak.
Scripture speaks of a second death so once again, context needs considering.

Personally I think Lazarus died again because his resurrection from the dead experience didn't include immortality just as others who were resurrected by Jesus or Elijah in their earthly sojourn.

Those however who came out of their graves when Jesus was resurrected possibly have a different scenario. What I imagine is, they where resurrected with immortality as was Moses and are now in the company of angels in heaven......first fruits maybe? However, I must add, this is pure speculation.

quietthinker said:

I dunno if the statement 'it’s appointed for a man to die once' can be made to walk on all fours so to speak.
Scripture speaks of a second death so once again, context needs considering.

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The second death only relates to those mortals who have been raised in the first resurrection to judgement, only to be returned to the earth forever (goats!).

stunnedbygrace said:

Reading that verse again about how we won’t all sleep has Paul agreeing that we sleep when we die, but what I can’t fit into that is that one verse that says after Jesus was raised, they saw many of their dead walking around. So I’ve wondered about that.

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What I conclude from that verse is, those who were raised when Jesus was, went around as witnesses to Jesus resurrection....ie, to the fulfilment of the OT prophecies just as Jesus witnessed to the two on the road to Emmaus

In other words the whole purpose of God's intentions and revelation to the prophets was fulfilled in Jesus......as Paul aptly says in 2 Corinthians 1:20 'For no matter how many promises God has made, they are “Yes” in Christ. And so through him the “Amen” is spoken by us to the glory of God.'

stunnedbygrace said:

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

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For those blessed with immortality during the judgement of the first resurrection (i.e Kings & Priests) the second death will never take place for they are immortals, only those who are found to be goats will suffer this end. Remember the second death speaks of permanency.

Keep in mind also at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ and the Saints another final resurrection will take place where we would expect many to suffer the second death also.

stunnedbygrace said:

Ah, now you’re just making stuff up.

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Nope! Legit. It's all there if you are willing...are you willing Stunned?

stunnedbygrace said:

I just don’t see that the first resurrection includes the second death at all. I don’t think you see it either!

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So you believe everyone will be blessed in the first resurrection? I don't get what you're saying now. You get the point being made is about those who are made Kings and Priests in the first resurrection right?

Not sure what to make of that!
Be ready for copious amounts of commentaries from J.

stunnedbygrace said:

I don’t think you see it either!

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Daniel 12:2 should be referenced!

I've believed it since I was a lad!

stunnedbygrace said:

I think we cannot totally see Jesus as He really is but we are told we will see Him as He really is one day. It says, when He appears, we will be like Him because we will see Him as He is.

I mean, does anyone else pray by saying, God, thus and thus?

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Three points....
1) Who is “we” in your statement above?

2) Do all who become Christ’s disciples fall under the classification of “saints” (elect) who are addressed in these scriptures. (Hebrews 3:1) Not all who came to Christ had “the heavenly calling”. (1 Corinthians 1:2) The Christian scriptures were written by the elect, for the elect. They are the ones who will rule with Christ in heaven, (the 144,000 pictured in heaven with the Lamb) and they alone will “see God” and they will also see Christ in his heavenly role......but the majority will be among the “great multitude” who are pictured in Revelation 7:13-14 as survivors of the “great tribulation”. These will be their subjects, joined later by the resurrected dead, whom Jesus will call from their graves after the establishment of his Kingdom over redeemed mankind. (John 5:28-29)

In what is called “the Beatitudes”, (Matthew 5:3-11) Jesus clearly identifies two classes of his disciples....there are ones who will “see God” because they will experience a spiritual resurrection (Revelation 20:6).....and there are those who will “inherit the earth”. One group will be in heaven, and the other on earth. “We” then takes on a new meaning.

3) Who are we to pray to? Not once are we told to pray “to” Jesus, but rather “through” him to his Father, whom he called “Our Father” which included himself and his disciples.
If God is the “Father” of all of us (including Jesus) then the Son cannot be his own Father.

Jesus is also the appointed “mediator between God and men” (1 Timothy 2:5-6) meaning that he is the ‘bridge’, or the ‘go between’ appointed by the Father so that our prayers can still reach him. Sin is the barrier between fallen humanity and God, that Jesus bridges.....so if he was God, why do we not have a mediator between us and him?

If we look at the Jewish Scriptures we will see prayers directed to Yahweh (Jehovah in English) by name. (Psalm 3:1-8; Jeremiah 1:6; 2 Chronicles 1:9; Deuteronomy 3:23)

In the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus said as a first requirement that his Father’s name be “hallowed” (holy, treated with reverence). The Jews failed to honour God’s holy name by refraining to use it in their speech, although retaining it in their scripture texts. Exodus 3:13-15 shows that God’s name was to be retained in their address to him. If they had retained it, the trinity could never have been introduced. There would not have been the ambiguous “Lord” who later morphed Jesus into God.

So it stands to reason that Jesus also taught his disciples to address the Father, using his name as the pre-Christian servants of God had done. They saw and read it in the Hebrew scrolls available in their synagogues. They also saw and read it in the Septuagint—a Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, which was used in teaching in the first century.

These things cannot be overlooked or ignored.

Aunty Jane said:

Three points....
2) Do all who become Christ’s disciples fall under the classification of “saints” (elect) who are addressed in these scriptures. (Hebrews 3:1) Not all who came to Christ had “the heavenly calling”. (1 Corinthians 1:2) The Christian scriptures were written by the elect, for the elect. They are the ones who will rule with Christ in heaven, (the 144,000 pictured in heaven with the Lamb) and they alone will “see God” and they will also see Christ in his heavenly role......but the majority will be among the “great multitude” who are pictured in Revelation 7:13-14 as survivors of the “great tribulation”. These will be their subjects, joined later by the resurrected dead, whom Jesus will call from their graves after the establishment of his Kingdom over redeemed mankind. (John 5:28-29)

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Hi Aunty Jane

I have agreed with almost all of your posts to date, as you would well know, but this one is the exception.

The 144,000 is a symbolic number not to be taken literally. It represents the redeemed as per Revelation 14:3, or those acquired by the Lamb by the ransom, or price paid, his blood. The exact number is unknown (1 Peter 1:18-19) we are told though Revelation 7:9 it's "a great multitude which no man could number."

Numbers are symbolic as you would know, such Revelation 13:18 and its clear from the exactness of this number 144,000 that it represents the 12 tribes of Israel. Being the square of 12 (12 x 12) shows it will be a perfect government on earth.

12 for the 12 tribes of Israel
12 for those who represent her hope (gentiles)

Zechariah 12:12-14; Psalms 68:6

Only God (with long suffering) knows precisely the number of the redeemed 2 Peter 3:15; 1 Peter 3:20)

F2F

stunnedbygrace said:

Wow I just saw more proof with that Daniel verse that the outer darkness really probably is forever and that it’s some of those who have been given eternal life who go there…that’s what I was hoping NOT to find.

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Just the darkness of a cold grave.