The Pre-Trib Rapture

Keraz said:

What believers of the false 'rapture to heaven' theory miss; is how the faithful Christians are kept safe in a earthly location during the 1260 day period of the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls - the Great Tribulation. Revelation 12:6 & 14
Some Christians must remain and they will face persecution from the 'dragon'; the Anti-Christ. Revelation 12:17

Many Prophesies say how the Lord will protect His own, none say He will take them to heaven.

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Satan's 42 months is after the 7th Trumpet. It ends prior to the 7 vials being poured out. Satan's 42 months has no interference from God at any time. Except the 2 witnesses. No judgments from God, because Satan is 100% in control of the earth from Jerusalem for 3.5 years.

The 7 vials are poured out during the 3.5 days the 2 witnesses are laying dead in Jerusalem. Consequently, those 3.5 days are also the last days the 7th Trumpet is still sounding. The week of the 7th Trumpet was cut in half in the midst of the week per Daniel 9:27. Satan was handed full reign during the week of the 7th Trumpet being sounded. That is why God and Christ the Prince let abomination and desolation take over for 42 months. The main reason being God knew there would be one or more humans still alive who would be beheaded during those 42 months and remain in the Lamb's book of life. This was the confirmation of the Atonement Covenant with the many. Those who would be beheaded. Otherwise all humanity at the 7th Trumpet would be killed in the winepress in Revelation 14, when the 7th Trumpet stopped sounding. Adam's flesh would come to an end, because time was up. Revelation 10:5-7

Taken said:

Correct...Christ’s Church is NOT ON Earth when the Son of Man Returns, with Power (who IS Christ)...

And why none can answer the question.

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Why do you not allow Christ the Prince to remain on earth once His feet touch the mount of Olives at the time the church is raptured?

Jesus as Prince is certainly on earth with all His angels and the 144k during the first 6 Trumpets and during the 7 Thunders. He is sitting on His throne in the temple He builds at the Second Coming. He first judges over all of Israel, calling them out of all the Nations and separates them into sheep and goats. This is the final harvest.

The 7th Trumpet is the final celebration when all the nations are now subject to Jesus. The tares and wheat have been dealt with. Now just the gleanings are left. It is this group at the 7th Trumpet who will choose between the mark of Satan's reign on earth or having one's head chopped off. Up until the 7th Trumpet, Jesus is doing all the harvesting of human souls.

The church was removed at the 6th Seal. Israel will be removed during the first 6 Trumpets. The wheat and the tares will be removed during the 7 Thunders. That is why Israel and the church never needed to know what the 7 Thunders were. Israel and the church will not even be on earth when they happen.

The church has been falsely teaching Tribulation salvation for decades. Some even split the rapture from the Second Coming, which is an error in itself. There is no church on earth after the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. The Trumpets and Thunders are not repeat camara angles of the same event. The church is removed. Israel is removed, and not at the same time. Israel is not the church, and the church is not Israel. If a Jew is redeemed (born again spiritually) prior to the Second Coming, they are the church. They no longer have an inheritance on earth, but in Paradise and the New Jerusalem. None of those on earth, after the 6th Seal, will be the church coming down as the New Jerusalem. All during the final harvest are the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom on earth for 1,000 years.

This has been taught wrong by Premillennialism. Instead of Amil correcting the wrong, they have added a whole new layer of wrong teaching.

Michiah-Imla said:

And when he comes: “…we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven… and the dead in Christ shall rise first” (1 Thessalonians 4:15-16)

When? “Immediately after the tribulation… and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:29-30)

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You are still as confused as ever. When Christ comes "with power and great glory, He is accompanied by His saints and angels from Heaven (Rev 19). So you don't even understand some very basic concepts. That has nothing to do with 1 Thessalonians 4, since the Resurrection/Rapture takes place at least seven years before the Second Coming.

Enoch111 said:

When Christ comes "with power and great glory, He is accompanied by His saints

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Yes, the saints he just brought up from the earth.

Enoch111 said:

Resurrection/Rapture takes place at least seven years before the Second Coming

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This is not true. There is no rapture without Christ’s coming.

Paul said we are waiting for Christ’s coming to experience the rapture.

“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not precede them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven …and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)

Christ comes after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31)

Christ destroys the Antichrist when he comes (2 Thessalonians 2:8)

The raptured saints rule with Christ after the rapture (first resurrection) Revelation 20:4-5

All the dead who died before the tribulation will remain in the grave (saved and unsaved) until the end to stand before the judgment seat of Christ (the great white throne) John 5:28-29; Revelation 20:12-15

Don't deny the Rapture and be left behind!!! Being caught up Caught up IS the rapture
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 And now, dear brothers, I want you to know what happens to a Christian when he dies so that when it happens, you will not be full of sorrow, as those are who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and then came back to life again, we can also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him all the Christians who have died.

15 I can tell you this directly from the Lord: that we who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet him ahead of those who are in their graves. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a mighty shout and with the soul-stirring cry of the archangel and the great trumpet-call of God. And the believers who are dead will be the first to rise to meet the Lord. 17 Then we who are still alive and remain on the earth will ""be caught up"" with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. 18 So comfort and encourage each other with this news.===Caught up IS the rapture. After the years of the great tribulation Jesus will return to earth and bring the raptured believers with Him and defeat all evil and set up His eternal kingdom here on earth and God will have His home here for all eternity!. PTL

Michiah-Imla said:

When the Antichrist comes you will know that the coming of the Lord is near. But you will not know the hour.

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When this "AC" comes, it will be too late to be part of the church. No one fitting that description until after the 7th Trumpet in Revelation 13.

Timtofly said:

When this "AC" comes, it will be too late to be part of the church

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The Antichrist will be warring against the church (the saints) - Revelation 13:7

Taken said:

Scripture teaches. I simply agree.



You could quote what you claim...

And I’ll quote what Scripture says...
I’ll go first.

Rev 14:
[1] And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Now you quote Scripture saying...Jesus as Prince with the 144,000.

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Jesus was on earth already when the 144k were sealed. Jesus came at the 6th Seal. Pretty sure you know the verses. They lign up with Matthew 24:29-31. Zechariah 14:4 gives us the place Jesus comes at the Second Coming, the 6th Seal:

"And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

That is the Second Coming.

Taken said:

Foolish teaching...

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We will see who the fools are, when the Lord strikes the world with His fiery wrath. Luke 21:34-35, 2 Peter 3:7
Nowhere does the Bible prophets say anyone will be removed from the earth, we are told to seek shelter and to stand firm in our faith during the time of testing. 1 Peter 4:12

Michiah-Imla said:

The Antichrist will be warring against the church (the saints) - Revelation 13:7

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That is the 144k of Israel. The firstfruits of the Second Coming.

The church is the firstfruits of the first coming in the first century.

Caught up IS the rapture. Who wants to deny thetruth of AGod's eternal living Word???
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be ""caught up"" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Taken said:

Oh...who is this?

Rev 14:
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

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Figurative of Jesus completing the final harvest of those who would not be found written in the Lamb's book of life.

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

Timtofly said:

That is the 144k of Israel. The firstfruits of the Second Coming.

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Sure.

It’s not unreasonable to think they’ll be part of the first resurrection mentioned by Paul when Christ comes back.

But to totally separate them from the saints is not required for the event order I pointed out from scripture to play out as written. It seems the order you are putting forward requires needless inordinate separating of people and events just because they are referenced by different terms.

GISMYS_7 said:

Don't deny the Rapture and be left behind!!! Being caught up Caught up IS the rapture
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 And now, dear brothers, I want you to know what happens to a Christian when he dies so that when it happens, you will not be full of sorrow, as those are who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and then came back to life again, we can also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him all the Christians who have died.

15 I can tell you this directly from the Lord: that we who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet him ahead of those who are in their graves. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a mighty shout and with the soul-stirring cry of the archangel and the great trumpet-call of God. And the believers who are dead will be the first to rise to meet the Lord. 17 Then we who are still alive and remain on the earth will ""be caught up"" with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. 18 So comfort and encourage each other with this news.===Caught up IS the rapture. After the years of the great tribulation Jesus will return to earth and bring the raptured believers with Him and defeat all evil and set up His eternal kingdom here on earth and God will have His home here for all eternity!. PTL

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1 Thessalonians 4 does not prove Pretrib. All it proves is that there is a catching away of the saints when Jesus comes. We both agree that there is a catching away in 1 Thessalonians 4. That is not the issue. But you force a 7-years trib into it and a 3rd coming that does not exist in the text.

So:

There is no ushering the Church into heaven in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
There is no 7-year tribulation in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
There is no 3rd coming in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
There are no survivors in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5. None shall escape.
There is no earthquake in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
There is no Pretrib in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.

What we do have in the text is "sudden destruction" accompanying Christ's return from which no one survives. This support Amillenialism and forbids both Pretrib and Premil.