New Covenant only for Jews?

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covenantee

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Natural Israel is true Israel for they are genetic Jews.

Here are your "genetic Jews":

Every person on the planet.


After more than three millennia of natural genetic dispersion and diffusion, Abraham's physical DNA is present in every inhabitant of planet earth.

Genetically, "Jewishness" is found in the entirety of humanity.

Established mathematically. Example of ancestral genetic ubiquity:

Charlemagne’s DNA and Our Universal Royalty

Nobody in my past was hugely famous, at least that I know of. I vaguely recall that an ancestor of mine who shipped over on the Mayflower distinguished himself by falling out of the ship and having to get fished out of the water. He might be notable, I guess, but hardly famous. It is much more fun to think that I am a bloodline descendant of Charlemagne. And in 1999, Joseph Chang gave me permission to think that way.

Chang was not a genealogist who had decided to make me his personal project. Instead, he is a statistician at Yale who likes to think of genealogy as a mathematical problem. When you draw your genealogy, you make two lines from yourself back to each of your parents. Then you have to draw two lines for each of them, back to your four grandparents. And then eight great-grandparents, sixteen great-great-grandparents, and so on. But not so on for very long. If you go back to the time of Charlemagne, forty generations or so, you should get to a generation of a trillion ancestors. That’s about two thousand times more people than existed on Earth when Charlemagne was alive.

The only way out of this paradox is to assume that our ancestors are not independent of one another. That is, if you trace their ancestry back, you loop back to a common ancestor. We’re not talking about first-cousin stuff here–more like twentieth-cousin. This means that instead of drawing a tree that fans out exponentially, we need to draw a web-like tapestry.

In a paper he published in 1999 [pdf], Chang analyzed this tapestry mathematically. If you look at the ancestry of a living population of people, he concluded, you’ll eventually find a common ancestor of all of them. That’s not to say that a single mythical woman somehow produced every European by magically laying a clutch of eggs. All this means is that as you move back through time, sooner or later some of the lines in the genealogy will cross, meeting at a single person.

As you go back further in time, more of those lines cross as you encounter more common ancestors of the living population. And then something really interesting happens. There comes a point at which, Chang wrote, “all individuals who have any descendants among the present-day individuals are actually ancestors of all present-day individuals.”

In 2002, the journalist Steven Olson wrote an article in the Atlantic about Chang’s work. To put some empirical meat on the abstract bones of Chang’s research, Olson considered a group of real people–living Europeans.

The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. Before that date, according to Chang’s model, the number of ancestors common to all Europeans today increased, until, about a thousand years ago, a peculiar situation prevailed: 20 percent of the adult Europeans alive in 1000 would turn out to be the ancestors of no one living today (that is, they had no children or all their descendants eventually died childless); each of the remaining 80 percent would turn out to be a direct ancestor of every European living today.

Suddenly, my pedigree looked classier: I am a descendant of Charlemagne. Of course, so is every other European. By the way, I’m also a descendant of Nefertiti. And so are you, and everyone else on Earth today. Chang figured that out by expanding his model from living Europeans to living humans, and getting an estimate of 3400 years instead of a thousand for the all-ancestor generation.

Things have changed a lot in the fourteen years since Chang published his first paper on ancestry. Scientists have amassed huge databases of genetic information about people all over the world. These may not be the same thing as a complete genealogy of the human race, but geneticists can still use them to tackle some of the same questions that intrigued Chang.

Recently, two geneticists, Peter Ralph of the University of Southern California and Graham Coop of the University of California at Davis, decided to look at the ancestry of Europe. They took advantage of a compilation of information about 2257 people from across the continent. Scientists had examined half a million sites in each person’s DNA, creating a distinctive list of genetic markers for each of them.

You can use this kind of genetic information to make some genealogical inferences, but you have to know what you’re dealing with. Your DNA is not a carbon copy of your parents’. Each time they made eggs or sperm, they shuffled the two copies of each of their chromosomes and put one in the cell. Just as a new deck gets more scrambled the more times you shuffle it, chromosomes get more shuffled from one generation to the next.

This means that if you compare two people’s DNA, you will find some chunks that are identical in sequence. The more closely related people are, the bigger the chunks you’ll find. This diagram shows how two first cousins share a piece of DNA that’s identical by descent (IBD for short).

Ralph and Coop identified 1.9 million of these long shared segments of DNA shared by at least two people in their study. They then used the length of each segment to estimate how long ago it arose from a common ancestor of the living Europeans.

Their results, published today in PLOS Biology, both confirm Chang’s mathematical approach and enrich it. Even within the past thousand years, Ralph and Coop found, people on opposite sides of the continent share a lot of segments in common–so many, in fact, that it’s statistically impossible for them to have gotten them all from a single ancestor. Instead, someone in Turkey and someone in England have to share a lot of ancestors. In fact, as Chang suspected, the only way to explain the DNA is to conclude that everyone who lived a thousand years ago who has any descendants today is an ancestor of every European. Charlemagne for everyone!

If you compare two people in Turkey, you’ll find bigger shared segments of DNA, which isn’t surprising. Since they live in the same country, chances are they have more recent ancestors, and more of them. But there is a rich, intriguing pattern to the number of shared segments among Europeans. People across Eastern Europe, for example, have a larger set of shared segments than people from within single countries in Western Europe. That difference may be the signature of a big expansion of the Slavs.

Ralph and Coop’s study may provide a new tool for reconstructing the history of humans on every continent, not just Europe. It will also probably keep people puzzling over the complexities of genealogy.


Corroborated empirically.
By the Jewish community itself.

Abraham lineage
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Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

How will God distinguish genetic Jews from genetic Jews?

It matters not one whit.

Because God has only two covenant criteria.

Two spiritual genes.

Faith and obedience.

Abraham's Spiritual DNA.

And nothing else.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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The reality is: God rejects the ethnic apartheid you promote. There is nothing more unbiblical in this new covenant period than trying to divide up the people of God on the grounds of ethnicity. That is spiritual apartheid. It runs completely to the New Testament plan of God to bring Jew and Gentile together equally in Christ. The whole mission of Jesus Christ in introducing the new covenant was to unite Jew and Gentile in salvation. Nothing could be clearer in the New Testament!

The New Testament makes clear; there is only one elect people. There is only one good olive tree, not two; one body, not two; one bride, not two; one spiritual temple, not two; one people of God, not two; one household of faith, not two; one fold, not two; one man, not “twain,” and one elect of God throughout time.


Well then, I will ask you one thing. Aside from your juvenile ad-hominin,( ethnic apartheid- how arrogant of you) you are simply misrepresenting my position.

In the church there is no distinction. Jews have no extra advantage in the church age. But Here is what I want you to answer if you will:

Please show me the fulfilment of the provisions God said He will accomplish in the New Covenant He is making with the house of Israel and Judah.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And I agree that in Romans there is only one olive tree! It is Jesus! Gentiles are th ewild branches grafted on to the the tree which is Jesus.

YOu forget that in Ephesians Paul reminded us gentiles that in the OT times we as gentile nations were without God and without hope in this world!

YOu have still failed to prove teh church is "spiritual Israel" nor provided one clear passage declaring it so.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Here are your "genetic Jews":

Every person on the planet.


After more than three millennia of natural genetic dispersion and diffusion, Abraham's physical DNA is present in every inhabitant of planet earth.

Genetically, "Jewishness" is found in the entirety of humanity.

Established mathematically. Example of ancestral genetic ubiquity:

Charlemagne’s DNA and Our Universal Royalty

Nobody in my past was hugely famous, at least that I know of. I vaguely recall that an ancestor of mine who shipped over on the Mayflower distinguished himself by falling out of the ship and having to get fished out of the water. He might be notable, I guess, but hardly famous. It is much more fun to think that I am a bloodline descendant of Charlemagne. And in 1999, Joseph Chang gave me permission to think that way.

Chang was not a genealogist who had decided to make me his personal project. Instead, he is a statistician at Yale who likes to think of genealogy as a mathematical problem. When you draw your genealogy, you make two lines from yourself back to each of your parents. Then you have to draw two lines for each of them, back to your four grandparents. And then eight great-grandparents, sixteen great-great-grandparents, and so on. But not so on for very long. If you go back to the time of Charlemagne, forty generations or so, you should get to a generation of a trillion ancestors. That’s about two thousand times more people than existed on Earth when Charlemagne was alive.

The only way out of this paradox is to assume that our ancestors are not independent of one another. That is, if you trace their ancestry back, you loop back to a common ancestor. We’re not talking about first-cousin stuff here–more like twentieth-cousin. This means that instead of drawing a tree that fans out exponentially, we need to draw a web-like tapestry.

In a paper he published in 1999 [pdf], Chang analyzed this tapestry mathematically. If you look at the ancestry of a living population of people, he concluded, you’ll eventually find a common ancestor of all of them. That’s not to say that a single mythical woman somehow produced every European by magically laying a clutch of eggs. All this means is that as you move back through time, sooner or later some of the lines in the genealogy will cross, meeting at a single person.

As you go back further in time, more of those lines cross as you encounter more common ancestors of the living population. And then something really interesting happens. There comes a point at which, Chang wrote, “all individuals who have any descendants among the present-day individuals are actually ancestors of all present-day individuals.”

In 2002, the journalist Steven Olson wrote an article in the Atlantic about Chang’s work. To put some empirical meat on the abstract bones of Chang’s research, Olson considered a group of real people–living Europeans.

The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. Before that date, according to Chang’s model, the number of ancestors common to all Europeans today increased, until, about a thousand years ago, a peculiar situation prevailed: 20 percent of the adult Europeans alive in 1000 would turn out to be the ancestors of no one living today (that is, they had no children or all their descendants eventually died childless); each of the remaining 80 percent would turn out to be a direct ancestor of every European living today.

Suddenly, my pedigree looked classier: I am a descendant of Charlemagne. Of course, so is every other European. By the way, I’m also a descendant of Nefertiti. And so are you, and everyone else on Earth today. Chang figured that out by expanding his model from living Europeans to living humans, and getting an estimate of 3400 years instead of a thousand for the all-ancestor generation.

Things have changed a lot in the fourteen years since Chang published his first paper on ancestry. Scientists have amassed huge databases of genetic information about people all over the world. These may not be the same thing as a complete genealogy of the human race, but geneticists can still use them to tackle some of the same questions that intrigued Chang.



Corroborated empirically.
By the Jewish community itself.



How will God distinguish genetic Jews from genetic Jews?

It matters not one whit.

Because God has only two covenant criteria.

Two spiritual genes.

Faith and obedience.

Abraham's Spiritual DNA.

And nothing else.


I have had many others post this trivial garbage as an attempt at proof. Genetics are not math but real life people stuff. Mathematics, though an empirical science or hard science is only as good as the programming fed into the algorithms. And without actual DNA research to estblish hard lines- their mathematics is only supposition without support. Sorry that is not science or even bad science- it is junk science.

Teh rest of th earticles (which I have already read several times) , some have merit, but the majority are suppositions and maybes and could be's based on untested and untrestable HYPOTHESIS.

Actually god has only one spiritual; DNA- HIS! when we are saved we literally become the children of God!

How will God establish between Jews? Are you newly saved? do you not know the power and omniscience of God?

And it has been corroborated by some in the Jewish community. Stretching the truth (aka lying) is very unbecoming of you. The bulk of the Jewish community who agrees with those non genealogists mathemeticians are very liberal sorts. You have to great lengths to marginalize them and now you want to hang your trust with them.,
 

WPM

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Well then, I will ask you one thing. Aside from your juvenile ad-hominin,( ethnic apartheid- how arrogant of you) you are simply misrepresenting my position.

In the church there is no distinction. Jews have no extra advantage in the church age. But Here is what I want you to answer if you will:

Please show me the fulfilment of the provisions God said He will accomplish in the New Covenant He is making with the house of Israel and Judah.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And I agree that in Romans there is only one olive tree! It is Jesus! Gentiles are th ewild branches grafted on to the the tree which is Jesus.

YOu forget that in Ephesians Paul reminded us gentiles that in the OT times we as gentile nations were without God and without hope in this world!

YOu have still failed to prove teh church is "spiritual Israel" nor provided one clear passage declaring it so.

Isaiah 53:3-7 says, “He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”

Isaiah 53:9-12 says, And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”

In Matthew 20:28 Jesus said, “the Son of Man … give his life a ransom for many.”

Jesus said, in Mark 14:24: "And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many."

Romans 5:8 says “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

The word “for” here is the Greek word huper (hooper) which means ‘in the place of’ and ‘for the benefit of’.

This is good news for the sinner and good news for the saved, there is a place of deliverance, a place of escape, a place of grace in Christ, through Christ and by Christ. There is a place where we can escape the bondage of sin and the penalty of sin and it is called Calvary.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Recently, two geneticists, Peter Ralph of the University of Southern California and Graham Coop of the University of California at Davis, decided to look at the ancestry of Europe. They took advantage of a compilation of information about 2257 people from across the continent. Scientists had examined half a million sites in each person’s DNA, creating a distinctive list of genetic markers for each of them.

You can use this kind of genetic information to make some genealogical inferences, but you have to know what you’re dealing with. Your DNA is not a carbon copy of your parents’. Each time they made eggs or sperm, they shuffled the two copies of each of their chromosomes and put one in the cell. Just as a new deck gets more scrambled the more times you shuffle it, chromosomes get more shuffled from one generation to the next.

This means that if you compare two people’s DNA, you will find some chunks that are identical in sequence. The more closely related people are, the bigger the chunks you’ll find. This diagram shows how two first cousins share a piece of DNA that’s identical by descent (IBD for short).

Ralph and Coop identified 1.9 million of these long shared segments of DNA shared by at least two people in their study. They then used the length of each segment to estimate how long ago it arose from a common ancestor of the living Europeans.

Their results, published today in PLOS Biology, both confirm Chang’s mathematical approach and enrich it. Even within the past thousand years, Ralph and Coop found, people on opposite sides of the continent share a lot of segments in common–so many, in fact, that it’s statistically impossible for them to have gotten them all from a single ancestor. Instead, someone in Turkey and someone in England have to share a lot of ancestors. In fact, as Chang suspected, the only way to explain the DNA is to conclude that everyone who lived a thousand years ago who has any descendants today is an ancestor of every European. Charlemagne for everyone!

If you compare two people in Turkey, you’ll find bigger shared segments of DNA, which isn’t surprising. Since they live in the same country, chances are they have more recent ancestors, and more of them. But there is a rich, intriguing pattern to the number of shared segments among Europeans. People across Eastern Europe, for example, have a larger set of shared segments than people from within single countries in Western Europe. That difference may be the signature of a big expansion of the Slavs.

Ralph and Coop’s study may provide a new tool for reconstructing the history of humans on every continent, not just Europe. It will also probably keep people puzzling over the complexities of genealogy.


You do realize that all humans are over 99% genetically identical? It is the one percent that makes us unique!

You are 99% identical to mongols, negroids, etc. So this is a very misleading article. but the bible implies we would all be near identical. We all have the same initial parents. Sin caused mutations and th eflood also caused physiological changes at the merciful hand of God. Example mongols were given the capabilty to develop ruddy physiques with more fat buildup and very thick hair to survive the harsh climes they settled.

Blacks who settled in the equatoirial regions were given more melanin to darken their skin to protect from the harmful effects of the now unblocked sun. Caucasians because they inhabit the temperate climes had a tan skin with thinner hair. the rest of the diversity is mostly attributable to Mendels law. We can discuss gent\etic shuffling and recombination and mutations if you wish.

Sorry but these guys are basing it on too small of a sample. and every one came from one european 600 years ago is statistically impossible. Europe was full y serttled by then and there was no massive die off where all but one line survived! Hostroy proves their math wrong! It came up with teh right answer for the information programmed, but the information was wrong. so though they came up with a correct mathematical answerr, it is false in light of reality.
 

Ronald Nolette

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This couldn’t be clearer. Those Jews and Gentiles that don’t accept Christ don’t accept the Father. Christ-rejecting Jews and Gentiles are under condemnation and are therefore of their father the devil.

I never thought otherwise. Why do you even bring this up????


No, you do not agree with it. You are actually fighting it. Rom. 11 is not a vine it is an olive tree. Please read it again. You are getting mixed up.

I think I will keep my own counsel as to what I believe or don't believe. YOu suck at reading my mind and thoughts and heart. Besides what you just did is aform of diviniation and that is sin!

Jews who accept Christ as Saviour and Lord are true children of Abraham, Gentiles who accept Christ as Saviour and Lord are true children of Abraham. Jews who reject Christ as Saviour and Lord are not true children of Abraham, Gentiles who reject Christ as Saviour and Lord are not true children of Abraham.

YOu need to read your bible more. Jews are jews whether they are saved or not! Gentiles are gentiles whether they are saved or not!

Jews, as a nation have been temporarily set aside for teh calling in of the full number of Gentiles. Once that number is reached- god will once again turn His focus on teh Israelis and fulfill all His promises He said He will do. You wish to make God a liar!


The overwhelming amount of Jews for 2,000 years have rejected Christ, Christ will therefore reject them. Notwithstanding, there has always been a redeemed remnant that have accepted God's only provision for sin and uncleanness. Those that accepts Christ are accepted of the Father. Those that deny Him are denied by the Father.

Just like the bible says! Isn't that amazing. Take god at His Word and you know these things!


How can they be of God's if they reject God's only means of reconciliation between man and God? You are presenting another gospel. The unsaved Jew does not receive Christ; therefore the Father does not receive him. He is not God's, he is the devil's. God's favour and blessing is upon those who accept His Son. His judgment is upon those who reject Him.

I will write this for the last time. If you don't pay attention this time, I will place you on ignore. As I have repeatedly written to you, any6 Jew since pentecost who dies rejecting Jesus as messiah is lost! Forever! Jews who get saved between Pentecost and the rap[ure are part of teh body of christ- the church- the bride of Christ!

OT saints are not the church, Trib saints are not the church. These distinctions are for teh millenial kingdom. I gave you the verses that shows thatin the future, god will turn His attention back to the nation of Israel, judge them, purge out teh rebels and the 1/3 that survive will get saved! As a matter of fact it is their getting saved and crying outr "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord that causes jesus return!
 

Ronald Nolette

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Isaiah 53:3-7 says, “He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”

Isaiah 53:9-12 says, And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”

In Matthew 20:28 Jesus said, “the Son of Man … give his life a ransom for many.”

Jesus said, in Mark 14:24: "And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many."

Romans 5:8 says “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

The word “for” here is the Greek word huper (hooper) which means ‘in the place of’ and ‘for the benefit of’.

This is good news for the sinner and good news for the saved, there is a place of deliverance, a place of escape, a place of grace in Christ, through Christ and by Christ. There is a place where we can escape the bondage of sin and the penalty of sin and it is called Calvary.


And verses like these make me weep often for love of my Savior! He loves deeply a man who was intentionally on Satan's side!

but what does this have to do with God fuilfilling the provisions of teh New Covenant as He declared in Jer. 31:31-34?

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


If you hypothesize that this is not directly and explicitly for natural Israel.... I don't even know how to respond iof that is true!

what gentile nation and forefathers did God make a covenant with that we broke?

What Gentile nation did God lead out of Egypt? Please don't say that gentiles came along- they were not a nation nor children of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob.

If teh church is now Israel, who is Judah?

And when did god fulfill the promises He s
SaID hE WILL FULFILL HERE??
 

covenantee

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You do realize that all humans are over 99% genetically identical? It is the one percent that makes us unique!

Insofar as every human possesses some quantity of the Abrahamic genome, we are 100% identical in that respect.

Sorry but these guys are basing it on too small of a sample. and every one came from one european 600 years ago is statistically impossible. Europe was full y serttled by then and there was no massive die off where all but one line survived! Hostroy proves their math wrong! It came up with teh right answer for the information programmed, but the information was wrong. so though they came up with a correct mathematical answerr, it is false in light of reality.

If you have a mathematical disproof of the evidence presented, validated by a math doctorate, do enlighten us. Otherwise, I'll defer to those with the credentials and expertise to know whereof they speak.

You don't.

Your incomprehensibility betrays you.

How is the entirety of humanity "too small of a sample"? Do you think that aliens should be included?

Provide a verbatim copy/paste of the claim that "every one came from one European". Who is "every one"?

Since you're an expert in genetics, you should call up Rabbi Amsalem and his friends and tell them that you know more about their genes than they know about their genes.

Let us know what they say.

And please provide links to the definitions of "teh" and "serttled" and "hostroy".

Google can't find them.
 
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WPM

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I will write this for the last time. If you don't pay attention this time, I will place you on ignore. As I have repeatedly written to you, any6 Jew since pentecost who dies rejecting Jesus as messiah is lost! Forever! Jews who get saved between Pentecost and the rap[ure are part of teh body of christ- the church- the bride of Christ!

OT saints are not the church, Trib saints are not the church. These distinctions are for teh millenial kingdom. I gave you the verses that shows thatin the future, god will turn His attention back to the nation of Israel, judge them, purge out teh rebels and the 1/3 that survive will get saved! As a matter of fact it is their getting saved and crying outr "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord that causes jesus return!

Hey, do what you want. It is nothing to me. I am not interested in your infantile threats.

Where do you get that the OT saints are not the Church? Where do you get that the Trib saints are not the Church? It is certainly not in the Bible. Understandably, you provide no supporting Scripture.

The Hebrew words that are used in the Old Testament to describe the overall company of the children of Israel are qâhâl and ‛êdâh. These words are usually translated, and mean, “congregation” or “assembly.” But, the Old Testament was not just written in Hebrew; it was also written in Greek. Interestingly, the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint or LXX) normally uses the word ekklesia (from ek- + kaleo, meaning “to call”) in place of these two Hebrew words to describe the gathering of the congregation of old covenant Israel. The word ekklesia literally means ‘the called-out assembly’. Notwithstanding: there are some instances where the Greek Old Testament translators use the word sunagoge to represent the same Hebrew words.

When you examine the usage of qâhâl and ‛êdâh in the Old Testament, you discover that they are interchangeably used throughout the ancient text and are considered by most Jewish scholars to be synonymous, even though they are different Hebrew words. There are even times when these same or similar Hebrew words are linked together in the same text in order to describe ‘the congregating [verb] of the congregation [noun]’ or ‘the assembling [verb] of the assembly [noun]’. Number 20:1-13 is a case-in-point.

This should help us understand the true meaning and origin of the Greek word ekklesia. When used in a religious sense, we are basically looking at the congregation or assembly of God’s people. The word ekklesia can apply to a secular gathering, so the translator’s insistence upon the word “Church” is misplaced and not an appropriate rendering of the word.

The exact same Greek word used in the Greek Old Testament (ekklesia) is also used in the Greek New Testament to describe God’s people. This is no mere coincidence. It shows us the practical and spiritual connection and link between both. It is therefore right and reasonable for us to understand and translate the word in a similar vein in the New Testament. We should remember that it was the believing remnant of the Old Testament ekklesia of Israel (true Israel) that in fact became the infant New Testament Church (ekklesia or congregation or assembly). The Gospel was actually received and embraced first by those among natural Israel who had eyes to see and ears to hear.

Granted, whether one interprets ekklesia as “congregation,” “assembly,” “gathering” or “Church” does not change the overall New Testament reality. The fact remains, the word still describes the same overall religious company. But what is sure is that the forceful, undeniable and consistent evidence before us proves that the ekklesia refers to the gathering of God’s people throughout all ages.

The word ekklesia (Church) is found 77 times in the Greek Old Testament (the Septuagint or LXX) referring to Israel. This proves that the terms “Church” and “Israel” are synonymous and interchangeable. Christ and the Apostles employed and quoted extensively from the Septuagint during the early New Testament Church. The word is found 116 times in the New Testament. It was a term that they were very familiar with. The Septuagint was written about 200 years before Christ was born. While Dispensationalist conveniently portray the ekklesia as an Old Testament mystery and a New Testament phenomenon, Christ and the disciples were not so ignorant.

The ekklesia is found throughout the Greek Old Testament – the Septuagint (LXX): in Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, 1 Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Lamentations, Joel, and Micah. That is 16 of the Old Testament books, which is nearly half of them.

The Old Testament prophets lamented for centuries over the blindness and deafness of many among visible outward Israel (Isaiah 6:9–10, Jeremiah 5:21, and Ezekiel 12:2). This prepared the way for Christ and His liberating spiritual message to the nation. Jesus directed strong rebukes to those within natural Israel that professed but didn’t possess. He warned in Matthew 13:15-16: “For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.”

Many had eyes to see in the natural but they did not have eyes to see in the spiritual. They had ears to hear in the natural but they did not have ears to hear in the spiritual.

The saved saints under the Mosaic covenant were simply the assembly of God of that day. Also, the kingdom which was repeatedly promised to the remnant of Israel developed into the New Testament gathering. Elect Israel and the elect Church were/are the same entity. The word ekklesia conveys the idea of a common assembly in both eras. The New Testament ekklesia is simply an extension of the Old Testament ekklesia (qâhâl or ‛êdâh), albeit it has taken on a different form under the new covenant.
 

WPM

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And verses like these make me weep often for love of my Savior! He loves deeply a man who was intentionally on Satan's side!

but what does this have to do with God fuilfilling the provisions of teh New Covenant as He declared in Jer. 31:31-34?

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


If you hypothesize that this is not directly and explicitly for natural Israel.... I don't even know how to respond iof that is true!

what gentile nation and forefathers did God make a covenant with that we broke?

What Gentile nation did God lead out of Egypt? Please don't say that gentiles came along- they were not a nation nor children of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob.

If teh church is now Israel, who is Judah?

And when did god fulfill the promises He s
SaID hE WILL FULFILL HERE??

It is very hard to read your posts. You might need to check the spelling and grammar before posting.

1. The Bible says we have been grafted into 'an Israeli tree' (Romans 9-11). Is that an ethnic or spiritual tree?
2. The Bible says we who were once aliens from the "citizenship of Israel" have now been brought in through the blood of Christ to that privileged place (Ephesians 2). Is that ethnic or spiritual Israel?
3. The Bible says that Jew and Gentile alike, have now been graciously merged together into "the Israel of God" (Galatians 6:15-16). Is that ethnic or spiritual Israel?
4. The Bible says we are 'Jews' and we are "the circumcision" today (Romans 2:25-29; Philippians 3:3 and Colossians 2:11). Is that ethnic or spiritual Jews?
5. The Bible says we are "the children of Abraham" (Romans 4:11; 4:13-15; 4:16-18; 9:6-8; Galatians 3:7-9; 3:12-14; 3:16 and 3:26-29) today. Are we the ethnic or spiritual "children of Abraham"?
6. The Bible says we now reside and abide in "Jerusalem" and "Mount Zion" (Matthew 21:42-46; John 3:3; Romans 9:33; 11:26; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:4-6; Philippians 3:20; Hebrews 12:22 and 1 Peter 2:5-10). Is that natural physical earthly "Jerusalem" and "Mount Zion" or is that spiritual heavenly "Jerusalem" and "Mount Zion"?
 

n2thelight

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Why does it say the "New Covenant" Jesus made is only for the Jews?

Hebrews 8:8 - But God found fault with the people and said: “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

If one does not believe in Christ they are no longer of Israel , period.....Gentiles were able to be grafted in after the death of Christ .
 

Ronald Nolette

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Insofar as every human possesses some quantity of the Abrahamic genome, we are 100% identical in that respect.



If you have a mathematical disproof of the evidence presented, validated by a math doctorate, do enlighten us. Otherwise, I'll defer to those with the credentials and expertise to know whereof they speak.

You don't.

Your incomprehensibility betrays you.

How is the entirety of humanity "too small of a sample"? Do you think that aliens should be included?

Provide a verbatim copy/paste of the claim that "every one came from one European". Who is "every one"?

Since you're an expert in genetics, you should call up Rabbi Amsalem and his friends and tell them that you know more about their genes than they know about their genes.

Let us know what they say.

And please provide links to the definitions of "teh" and "serttled" and "hostroy".

Google can't find them.


Well thank you for seeing the mote of my eye in spelling.

In case you don't know- the article cited 2237 samples- that is not the entire human race! soory but 2237 does not equal 7,800,000,000.

So anthropogenic climate change and evolution have beenj mathematically proven by PHD's in math. Do you believe in them as well??

From your article cited about europeans:
"The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. " I should have been hyper specifc, I assumed you would know we were talking about Europeans seeing as you pasted the article.

Well all these Rabbis according to the articles you linked to , are all possibilities, not actualities. Go back and read your evidences. but it is only a group of liberal Jews who accept this- not teh Jewish community. YOu were being deceptive in saying that.

Well I don't have a degree in math, but I do know many with degrees in genetics. Math is math and genetics is genetics. If you do not realize that teh math will only be as accurate as teh coefficients factored into teh equations they designed- you need to go back to about 8th or 9th grade math to relearn that basic truth.

Their report(asnd even they will tell you ) is only correct if A,B,C, D ,E are fully accurate. and with only 2257 (not 37) samples, they can be off by wide margins.

I will trust geneticists speaking on genetics over mathematicians speaking on genetics. Just like I would trust mathematicians speaking on math over geneticists speaking math.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Where do you get that the OT saints are not the Church? Where do you get that the Trib saints are not the Church? It is certainly not in the Bible. Understandably, you provide no supporting Scripture.

The Hebrew words that are used in the Old Testament to describe the overall company of the children of Israel are qâhâl and ‛êdâh. These words are usually translated, and mean, “congregation” or “assembly.” But, the Old Testament was not just written in Hebrew; it was also written in Greek. Interestingly, the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint or LXX) normally uses the word ekklesia (from ek- + kaleo, meaning “to call”) in place of these two Hebrew words to describe the gathering of the congregation of old covenant Israel. The word ekklesia literally means ‘the called-out assembly’. Notwithstanding: there are some instances where the Greek Old Testament translators use the word sunagoge to represent the same Hebrew words.


I will give just one Scripture.

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus says " I will" future! NOt I will continue to build, or will keep building, or have been building.

Teh Septuagint does use ekklesia- called out ones. But one does not need be a member of the Church to be an ekklesia in ages before the church was born!

John 3:29
King James Version

29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

The Baptist recognized he was not part of the church!

also in the parable

Another one:

Matthew 25
King James Version

25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.


these virgins are not the bride- but the maids of honor

and two more:

Matthew 22
King James Version

22 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

Revelation 19:7-9
King James Version

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


The bride is not a guest or invited to teh feast! she is integral to teh wedding feast along with Jesus. These are all saved people but not part of the bride! The bride is the church!
 

Ronald Nolette

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The exact same Greek word used in the Greek Old Testament (ekklesia) is also used in the Greek New Testament to describe God’s people. This is no mere coincidence. It shows us the practical and spiritual connection and link between both. It is therefore right and reasonable for us to understand and translate the word in a similar vein in the New Testament. We should remember that it was the believing remnant of the Old Testament ekklesia of Israel (true Israel) that in fact became the infant New Testament Church (ekklesia or congregation or assembly). The Gospel was actually received and embraced first by those among natural Israel who had eyes to see and ears to hear.

Granted, whether one interprets ekklesia as “congregation,” “assembly,” “gathering” or “Church” does not change the overall New Testament reality. The fact remains, the word still describes the same overall religious company. But what is sure is that the forceful, undeniable and consistent evidence before us proves that the ekklesia refers to the gathering of God’s people throughout all ages.

You mix truth with error here.

The Jews who wrote the LXX had no concept of church. Both Jews and the church are Gods people, but in different times under different conditions and way God governed them- IOW different dispensations. The church is not OT Israle and OT Israel is not part of the church. Jesus had not started building His church yet.
 

Ronald Nolette

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The saved saints under the Mosaic covenant were simply the assembly of God of that day. Also, the kingdom which was repeatedly promised to the remnant of Israel developed into the New Testament gathering. Elect Israel and the elect Church were/are the same entity. The word ekklesia conveys the idea of a common assembly in both eras. The New Testament ekklesia is simply an extension of the Old Testament ekklesia (qâhâl or ‛êdâh), albeit it has taken on a different form under the new covenant.

I agree here 100% but that does not make them part of the Body of Christ. Paul said Spirit baptism is required and no OT saint was baptized in the Holy Spirit. that did not happen until Pentecost. What kind of church do you go to that espouses this?
 

Ronald Nolette

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It is very hard to read your posts. You might need to check the spelling and grammar before posting.

1. The Bible says we have been grafted into 'an Israeli tree' (Romans 9-11). Is that an ethnic or spiritual tree?
2. The Bible says we who were once aliens from the "citizenship of Israel" have now been brought in through the blood of Christ to that privileged place (Ephesians 2). Is that ethnic or spiritual Israel?
3. The Bible says that Jew and Gentile alike, have now been graciously merged together into "the Israel of God" (Galatians 6:15-16). Is that ethnic or spiritual Israel?
4. The Bible says we are 'Jews' and we are "the circumcision" today (Romans 2:25-29; Philippians 3:3 and Colossians 2:11). Is that ethnic or spiritual Jews?
5. The Bible says we are "the children of Abraham" (Romans 4:11; 4:13-15; 4:16-18; 9:6-8; Galatians 3:7-9; 3:12-14; 3:16 and 3:26-29) today. Are we the ethnic or spiritual "children of Abraham"?
6. The Bible says we now reside and abide in "Jerusalem" and "Mount Zion" (Matthew 21:42-46; John 3:3; Romans 9:33; 11:26; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:4-6; Philippians 3:20; Hebrews 12:22 and 1 Peter 2:5-10). Is that natural physical earthly "Jerusalem" and "Mount Zion" or is that spiritual heavenly "Jerusalem" and "Mount Zion"?

1.The tree is not Israel. It is a place of blessing for Israel (Jesus) and we have been grafted onto that. the bible does not call itr an "Israeli tree". But you know that

2. We have been brought nigh (near) we are not Jews. We are not spiritual or physical Jews we are saved gentiles who are on with the Jews in teh body of Christ.

3. No it does not say that. That is your failing grammar skills calling it that.

4. YOu should keep that in full context- because it is to show that everyone is guilty and all mouths shut before God. It has nothing to do with one being a spiritual Jew or natural Jew.

5. Abraham was to be a blessing to all nations. Not just the Jewish nation so yes we are the children of Abraham. but to be a Jew one needs to be a descendant of Abrahm, Isaac, and Jacob!

6. so to you the old Jerusalem had not gentiles in it? We are for teh heaqvenly Jerusalem and the heavenly Mount Zion! that does not make us Jews anymore than Esau is a Jew.
 

WPM

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I will give just one Scripture.

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus says " I will" future! NOt I will continue to build, or will keep building, or have been building.

Teh Septuagint does use ekklesia- called out ones. But one does not need be a member of the Church to be an ekklesia in ages before the church was born!

John 3:29
King James Version

29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

The Baptist recognized he was not part of the church!

also in the parable

Another one:

You totally sidestepped what I was talking about and changed subject. This is typical with Dispensationalism. You then cobble Scripture to support your error. There is no Scripture that teaches your doctrine. I suspect you know that by your avoidance.

Dispensationalists typically present the New Testament ekklesia as a brand-new spiritual innovation, which had no origin prior to Pentecost. They teach that the Church itself is a “mystery” and that it is a completely separate entity to God’s people in the Old Testament. They say, because the New Testament Church is expressly called “the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God” that it is a brand-new construction started in the upper room. They contend that the Apostle Paul was specifically and specially tasked with revealing this great mystery.

What they miss, or deliberately distort, is that Paul was actually teaching the complete opposite to what they assert. Ephesians 3:1-9 tells us: “For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.”


The debate is not over whether the ekklesia was some new innovation or whether it has replaced Israel or not (because it hasn’t) but rather, (1) is the new covenant congregation of God’s people spiritually connected to the old covenant congregation of God’s people and (2) do believing Gentiles after the cross enjoy an equal status with believing Jews?

The mystery regarding the congregation is not that it was unknown to the Old Testament prophets, but rather that believing Gentiles were integrated into the believing congregation on an equal footing (as fellow heirs) as existing Jewish believers. Dispensationalists fail to see that the ekklesia is not a New Testament novelty introduced at Pentecost but an ongoing spiritual organism that has contained the elect of God from the very beginning.

The new covenant congregation is not something entirely unique and new in God’s plan and purposes, totally separated from His old covenant people, but is an extension of Old Testament believing Israel. The New Testament assembly is the ongoing continuation of faithful old covenant Israel. Whilst the New Testament gathering has taken on a different form under the new covenant, the elect in the Old Testament and the elect in the New Testament are part of the same spiritual body.

Paul identifies “the mystery” here in a clear and unambiguous way in verse 6, namely: “That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.” Here is the crux of his argument: he demonstrates that the notable metamorphosis that occurred as the old covenant ekklesia changed into the new covenant ekklesia resulted in the Gentiles assuming an equal footing to the Jews. There is no longer any favoritism. The mystery is the parity that occurred from this merger in regard to the promises of God.

Paul never said that the ekklesia wasn’t about before Pentecost, as Dispensationalists wrongly argue. In fact, he teaches the opposite. The Dispensational interpretation is the exact reverse to what the inspired text is actually saying. Paul is in fact talking about the joining of the old and new covenant saints together in Christ. The mystery is the mystical union of the people of God of all time in one spiritual body.

It was always God’s heart to expand His old covenant congregation (the ekklesia) out beyond the borders of national Israel, to reach the Gentile people. The Church itself was not a mystery (or secret) prior to Paul, neither was God’s great eternal plan of redemption, neither was the ingathering of the Gentiles. Passage after passage in the Old Testament predicted these events. What was a mystery was the Gentiles being “fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.” Dispensationalists make the existence of the ekklesia the “mystery” in order to support their theology, even though it has been around as long as there have been believers.

Thomas Croskery explains in his in-depth classic research from 1879: “Though the prophets foretold that the Gentiles were to be blessed in Abraham, it was not made known to them in what manner the blessing was to be realized. This was the special revelation to which the apostle alludes when he speaks of the dispensation committed to himself as the apostle to the Gentiles.”

He adds: “we, of this dispensation, were to be incorporated into the ‘one commonwealth’, from which we were alienated, into the ‘one body’, the ‘one household’, the ‘one building fitly framed together’. The mystery was the admission of Gentiles to share on equal terms with the Jews all the blessings purchased by Christ” (Plymouth-Brethrenism: A Refutation of Its Principles and Doctrines).

Ephesians 3:1-9 is just another example of the gradual spiritual unfolding of the progressive revelation of God. In this instance, it shows how New Testament Gentiles would possess an equal status to that of New Testament Jews under the new covenant arrangement. This was something that was largely veiled in the Old Testament.
 
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