If you found you were in the wrong faith, would you change?

Robert Gwin · Jun 29, 2022

Have you ever put yourself in the shoes of God's people who underwent a changeover to a new covenant? How hard it might be to accept. God had a nation, a covenanted people of Abrahams descendants for centuries, when a seeming criminal apostate put into force a new covenant, open to all peoples, with completely new laws. What is more, that individual was executed by the authorities, would you have believed he was God's son at the time?

Looking back, it is easy for us to see he was the Messiah, and we fully accept the new covenant, but God still only has one people, those who worship Him with spirit and truth. How about you, if you found out you were in the wrong faith, would you be willing to accept the faith that is identified by Scripture?

JohnPaul · Jun 30, 2022

If one believes in God the Father and Christ as his only begotten son, then there is no need to change, it's only those who don't believe in Christ our Savior who died for our sins and who is the only begotten son of God Jehovah need to change.

Dropship · Jun 30, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
Have you ever put yourself in the shoes of God's people who underwent a changeover to a new covenant? How hard it might be to accept..

For centuries the snooty jewish priestly classes had held sway, so when Jesus arrived his new bright and breezy style blew peoples socks off and they found him very easy to accept-
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)
"The covenant of which Jesus is mediator is superior to the old one" (Hebrews 8:6)
"The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17)
"Through Jesus we are saved, and not through Moses" (Acts of the Apostles 13:39)
"Jesus saved you from the empty way of life handed you by your forefathers" (1 Peter 1:18 )
"We serve in the new way of the spirit, not in the old way of the written code" (Romans 7:6)

Backed up by his "credentials-
"All things about me in the law of Moses,the Prophets and the Psalms,must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44)
"The scriptures testify about me..Moses wrote about me" (John 5:46)
"Though you do not believe me, believe the miracles" (John 10:38)

"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)
"There is one mediator between God and men,- the man Jesus Christ" (1 Timothy 2:5)
"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2)
"There is no other name under heaven that can save us" (Acts of the Apostles 4:12)

High drama as Jesus announces his mission-
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free".
The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. He began by saying to them “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” (Luke ch 4)

Taken · Jun 30, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
Have you ever put yourself in the shoes of God's people who underwent a changeover to a new covenant? How hard it might be to accept. God had a nation, a covenanted people of Abrahams descendants for centuries, when a seeming criminal apostate put into force a new covenant, open to all peoples, with completely new laws. What is more, that individual was executed by the authorities, would you have believed he was God's son at the time?

Looking back, it is easy for us to see he was the Messiah, and we fully accept the new covenant, but God still only has one people, those who worship Him with spirit and truth. How about you, if you found out you were in the wrong faith, would you be willing to accept the faith that is identified by Scripture?

Gods People Israel were expressly named, identified, as they WHO Believed In God AND Trusted His Word.
* Believing, Trusting, Agreeing to DO is one thing, DOING is another thing, whereby Human nature becomes a mans own enemy.

Israel, obviously Human, had their own trials, impatience, desires.
Nothing new...Human nature, heavily relies on SEEING, before BELIEVING.

God is not oblivious of mans desire to SEE.
God INVISIBLE, obviously can NOT BE SEEN.
Gods ORDER and WAY...
Foretell His INTENT, His Works that SHALL come to Pass (become Manifested) FOR men TO SEE His Works.

Whaaa, whaaa....That’s nice...
“It shall come to pass”,
“It shall come to pass”
“It shall come to pass”...
BUT, BUT, BUT...God...your works take too long to be manifested, just let us see YOU, so we can Believe.

Calm down you stiffnecked rebellious unruly people!
I will send you something to see right away!

Num 11:
[23] And the LORD said unto Moses, Is the LORD's hand waxed short? thou shalt see now whether my word shall come to pass unto thee or not.

I will send you something to see later! A Messiah

WHAT? God, you sent us a “BABY”, a child, a young MAN of 30 years of age and wisdom, with no POWER, STATUS, KINGDOM, ARMY? And he hails from Nazareth to boot?
Oh Yipes, this IS our “Deliverer”??? It can’t be so!

There is where Israel is Standing.
An expectation, the majority do not Believe has come to pass.
Inasmuch as Jesus was NOT WHAT they Expected...
* God has not forgotten His People ISRAEL...
* And the introduction of the Heavenly God AND His Messiah...was as well something NEW for Gentiles.
* And less we forget...every newborn has the whole 6,000 years of catch up....WITH, less we forget...Evil spirits...Wicked men...Ignorant Children...False Teachers (secular and spiritual)....ALONE with most children the majority of their waking day. Hummm!!

BARNEY BRIGHT · Jun 30, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
Have you ever put yourself in the shoes of God's people who underwent a changeover to a new covenant? How hard it might be to accept. God had a nation, a covenanted people of Abrahams descendants for centuries, when a seeming criminal apostate put into force a new covenant, open to all peoples, with completely new laws. What is more, that individual was executed by the authorities, would you have believed he was God's son at the time?

Looking back, it is easy for us to see he was the Messiah, and we fully accept the new covenant, but God still only has one people, those who worship Him with spirit and truth. How about you, if you found out you were in the wrong faith, would you be willing to accept the faith that is identified by Scripture?

We have to remember that the apostles and disciples of Jesus, many of them were Jews but they exercised faith that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God. Just as they exercises faith, the rest of the nation of Jews could have exercised faith as the apostles and disciples of Jesus did. Many didn't exercise faith because they feared men, specifically the Pharisees.

ScottA · Jun 30, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
Have you ever put yourself in the shoes of God's people who underwent a changeover to a new covenant? How hard it might be to accept. God had a nation, a covenanted people of Abrahams descendants for centuries, when a seeming criminal apostate put into force a new covenant, open to all peoples, with completely new laws. What is more, that individual was executed by the authorities, would you have believed he was God's son at the time?

Looking back, it is easy for us to see he was the Messiah, and we fully accept the new covenant, but God still only has one people, those who worship Him with spirit and truth. How about you, if you found out you were in the wrong faith, would you be willing to accept the faith that is identified by Scripture?

They were looking for the Messiah to come...but with different expectations.

Let that sink in.

I wonder if any are up to comparing Israel's expectations experience (and the outcome), with that of our own time of looking for Him to come again...and our expectations. Anyone see a comparison?

LearningToLetGo · Jun 30, 2022

Faith isn't something you can choose. Rather, faith grows within you until the day comes when you realize you believe. Oftentimes that belief comes as a shock, being wholly unexpected. At least that's my experience.

ChristisGod · Jun 30, 2022

@Robert Gwin asked this :

If you found you were in the wrong faith, would you change?

Yes and I did as I was a calvinist for over 4 decades and now I'm not.

Jane_Doe22 · Jun 30, 2022

Christophany said:
@Robert Gwin asked this :

If you found you were in the wrong faith, would you change?

Yes and I did as I was a calvinist for over 4 decades and now I'm not.

Amen!

I also gave had my faith grow and change through the years. It is a good thing to grow and learn

Robert Gwin · Jul 1, 2022

JohnPaul said:
If one believes in God the Father and Christ as his only begotten son, then there is no need to change, it's only those who don't believe in Christ our Savior who died for our sins and who is the only begotten son of God Jehovah need to change.

Hi John, would you say those Jesus was talking to at Mat 7:21-23 believed that? They were actually zealous believers, yet they lacked something, what did Jesus say they were lacking sir?

Robert Gwin · Jul 1, 2022

Dropship said:
For centuries the snooty jewish priestly classes had held sway, so when Jesus arrived his new bright and breezy style blew peoples socks off and they found him very easy to accept-
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)
"The covenant of which Jesus is mediator is superior to the old one" (Hebrews 8:6)
"The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17)
"Through Jesus we are saved, and not through Moses" (Acts of the Apostles 13:39)
"Jesus saved you from the empty way of life handed you by your forefathers" (1 Peter 1:18 )
"We serve in the new way of the spirit, not in the old way of the written code" (Romans 7:6)

Backed up by his "credentials-
"All things about me in the law of Moses,the Prophets and the Psalms,must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44)
"The scriptures testify about me..Moses wrote about me" (John 5:46)
"Though you do not believe me, believe the miracles" (John 10:38)

"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)
"There is one mediator between God and men,- the man Jesus Christ" (1 Timothy 2:5)
"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2)
"There is no other name under heaven that can save us" (Acts of the Apostles 4:12)

High drama as Jesus announces his mission-
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free".
The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. He began by saying to them “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” (Luke ch 4)

View attachment 23935

Yes sir you are certainly correct, but for the most part they had the wrong idea about him. Yes they loved him, and on occasion tried to make him King, and he had to flee. Even in all the people he reached in his 3.5 yr ministry, and even to God's covenanted people, only 120 were present at the outpouring of the holy spirit. We see the same spirit among people today, the Kingdom message may sound great to them, but few actually seek it in their lives. But we can have confidence there are still rightly disposed individuals left, or the end would have came Mat 24:14.

Robert Gwin · Jul 1, 2022

Taken said:
Gods People Israel were expressly named, identified, as they WHO Believed In God AND Trusted His Word.
* Believing, Trusting, Agreeing to DO is one thing, DOING is another thing, whereby Human nature becomes a mans own enemy.

Israel, obviously Human, had their own trials, impatience, desires.
Nothing new...Human nature, heavily relies on SEEING, before BELIEVING.

God is not oblivious of mans desire to SEE.
God INVISIBLE, obviously can NOT BE SEEN.
Gods ORDER and WAY...
Foretell His INTENT, His Works that SHALL come to Pass (become Manifested) FOR men TO SEE His Works.

Whaaa, whaaa....That’s nice...
“It shall come to pass”,
“It shall come to pass”
“It shall come to pass”...
BUT, BUT, BUT...God...your works take too long to be manifested, just let us see YOU, so we can Believe.

Calm down you stiffnecked rebellious unruly people!
I will send you something to see right away!

Num 11:
[23] And the LORD said unto Moses, Is the LORD's hand waxed short? thou shalt see now whether my word shall come to pass unto thee or not.

I will send you something to see later! A Messiah

WHAT? God, you sent us a “BABY”, a child, a young MAN of 30 years of age and wisdom, with no POWER, STATUS, KINGDOM, ARMY? And he hails from Nazareth to boot?
Oh Yipes, this IS our “Deliverer”??? It can’t be so!

There is where Israel is Standing.
An expectation, the majority do not Believe has come to pass.
Inasmuch as Jesus was NOT WHAT they Expected...
* God has not forgotten His People ISRAEL...
* And the introduction of the Heavenly God AND His Messiah...was as well something NEW for Gentiles.
* And less we forget...every newborn has the whole 6,000 years of catch up....WITH, less we forget...Evil spirits...Wicked men...Ignorant Children...False Teachers (secular and spiritual)....ALONE with most children the majority of their waking day. Hummm!!

Yes, I never really thought about it before, but that was a radical change, it is no wonder that most rejected it. Very likely I would have been one who rejected such a radical change in our structure all at once. Many did come around however, shortly after thousands were getting baptized daily.

Robert Gwin · Jul 1, 2022

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
We have to remember that the apostles and disciples of Jesus, many of them were Jews but they exercised faith that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God. Just as they exercises faith, the rest of the nation of Jews could have exercised faith as the apostles and disciples of Jesus did. Many didn't exercise faith because they feared men, specifically the Pharisees.

It is easy to look back and see the proper path my brother, but with some heavy contemplation, I would imagine I would have likely considered Jesus an apostate. I know that most of us would have (just as we did in fact), because the leaders of the faith rejected him. Would have been tough for sure.

Robert Gwin · Jul 1, 2022

ScottA said:
They were looking for the Messiah to come...but with different expectations.

Let that sink in.

I wonder if any are up to comparing Israel's expectations experience (and the outcome), with that of our own time of looking for Him to come again...and our expectations. Anyone see a comparison?

You nailed that one Scott, that is exactly correct.

Robert Gwin · Jul 1, 2022

Christophany said:
@Robert Gwin asked this :

If you found you were in the wrong faith, would you change?

Yes and I did as I was a calvinist for over 4 decades and now I'm not.

That is very commendable Chris. Since God has not brought this world to its end, then we know that more are to be gathered for sure Mat 24:14

Jane_Doe22 · Jul 1, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
It is easy to look back and see the proper path my brother, but with some heavy contemplation, I would imagine I would have likely considered Jesus an apostate. I know that most of us would have (just as we did in fact), because the leaders of the faith rejected him. Would have been tough for sure.

This is a very honest answer. I admire that honesty.

ScottA · Jul 1, 2022

@Robert Gwin

Okay, so "expectations" in error, have been noted..

Are you wanting to conclude there is a "wrong faith" presently at work? Is that where this is going?

BARNEY BRIGHT · Jul 1, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
It is easy to look back and see the proper path my brother, but with some heavy contemplation, I would imagine I would have likely considered Jesus an apostate. I know that most of us would have (just as we did in fact), because the leaders of the faith rejected him. Would have been tough for sure.

The scriptures are very clear that the True God YHWH is looking for those that love him so much that they will exercise faith in him. Its not like the scriptures didn't tell how the promise seed would come. The scriptures clearly identified Jesus Christ as that promised seed. Just because the majority of Jews didn't exercise faith in what the scriptures said about the Christ and how he would come, doesn't justify them. The apostles and disciples of Jesus were jews also but they exercised faith that Jesus was the Christ. All the miracles that Jesus performed in their presence was clear proof that he was the Christ. He healed everyone that came to him for healing no matter what it was. He expelled the demons from those possessed by demons, Jesus even resurrected the dead, one of whom was dead for four days. The majrity of the jews believed what the pharisees said not just that Jesus was an apostate but also that he was demonic. They had plenty of proof that Jesus was the Christ and if you had lived back it that time you would have had plenty of proof too. So if you would have thought him an apostate you would have been among that number who didn't exercise faith. I find it interesting though that you're speaking about those that didn't exercise faith as they being reasonable in how they didn't exercise faith, and not speaking more reasonable and loving and faithful about those who were faithful because of their love for the True God YHWH and his Christ.

Ronald Nolette · Jul 1, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
Have you ever put yourself in the shoes of God's people who underwent a changeover to a new covenant? How hard it might be to accept. God had a nation, a covenanted people of Abrahams descendants for centuries, when a seeming criminal apostate put into force a new covenant, open to all peoples, with completely new laws. What is more, that individual was executed by the authorities, would you have believed he was God's son at the time?

Looking back, it is easy for us to see he was the Messiah, and we fully accept the new covenant, but God still only has one people, those who worship Him with spirit and truth. How about you, if you found out you were in the wrong faith, would you be willing to accept the faith that is identified by Scripture?

What new covenant is this?

Matthias · Jul 1, 2022

“If you found you were in the wrong faith, would you change?”

Yes. That’s why I became a Jewish monotheist.

If you found you were in the wrong faith, would you change?

Well-Known Member

Soldier of Jehovah and Christ

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads