The Pre-Trib Rapture
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bbyrd009
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- Nov 30, 2016
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right? first love could maybe be a little more defined too i guess
The clarifying word is “as”, not “is”.
The Lord God is outside of the confinement of time.
Time is for the benefit of manKind.
Gods High Heaven is Pure Light, Holiness, without the repetitive darkness the Earth and it’s inhabitants suffer.
There are some Godly men there.
If one looks at 1 Cor. 11.26, then clearly the aspect of the Lord's coming referred to relates to the church, and not to the other two of the three entities mentioned in 1 Cor. 10.26: Jews and Gentiles.
Instead of stating opinions: where in Scripture teaches a rapture of the Church followed by a 7-year tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming of Christ? I cannot see it. That is why I abandoned Pretrib.
Yes, what is our first love and where is it now?
"Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love." Rev 2:4
There is no "3rd coming of Christ" if you carefully read what is said about the Rapture. Since the raptured saints go to Christ to meet Him "in the air" and then go to Heaven with Him, that cannot be regarded as a coming to earth.
And when Christ does come to earth at His Second Coming, He comes with those same saints and angels, along with all the resurrected saints who also went to Heaven at the Rapture. Unless the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation, the saints cannot come with Christ at His Second Coming.
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14,15)
It is quite amazing to discover that Enoch -- the 7th from Adam -- prophesied about the Second Coming! And the Bible calls these saints and angels "clouds" (Rev 1:7) since they give the appearance of shining clouds as they descend with Christ from Heaven. So the question you must ask yourself is this: "How could all the saints descend from Heaven with Christ if they had not already been in Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb before He came down to earth?"
Pretribs teach 2 parousias. Scripture teaches one. Your avoidance confirms what we all know: Pretrib has no proof text.
There are at least a dozen proof texts for those who are diligent students unaffected by propaganda. So start off by asking yourself "What exactly is the purpose of the Resurrection/Rapture?" Unless you know God's purpose for this supernatural event, everything else will be confusing. And this is your own *homework* assignment. Unless you personally dig through the Bible, no one will convince you.
Scripture teaches in bits and pieces of a Big Picture.
God has a Mission. He created and made something VERY GOOD, and reveals an Order and Way, for the VERY GOOD, that became corrupt, can become MADE again, VERY GOOD, perfected, to HOLY once and forever.
Very good, we already know, can fall away to not good.
Holy WITHOUT the Power of God, can fall away to not holy.
Holy WITH the Power of God, IS KEPT holy, expressly BY the Power of God, which is Supreme.
A “thing” (in this case humans, but also angels) With/Without God, hinges on the FREEWILL choosing of the “thing” ( in this case humans).
The “thing”...a human person...
* Corrupt flesh, ORDER, born in sin. No decision, No fault of the human having a choice to be naturally born.
It’s sin, is, Being Against God. Doesn’t know of God, thus can not consider believing IN God.
* ORDER, “developing process”..
human bodies, have flesh, ears, eyes, nose, tongue, mouth...
* ORDER, “approx 9 months developing, then born, severed from it’s life source, is an individual.
* MADE, alive with a living soul, via Gods breath..blowing in the formed nose of the formed, born body.
* WAY, flesh, feels; eyes, see; ears, hear; nose, smells; tongue, tastes; mouth, makes sounds.
* ORDER, “little human person grows, learning, via, its feel, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, mouth...”
* WAY, Carnal Mind processing, feeling, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, mouth...
* Natural Process, mimicking other humans, good and corrupt.
* ORDER / WAY.... Gods offering of HIS Knowledge, HIS Way...TO learn ABOUT Him, discover His Order and Way, for REDOING, REMAKING, RESTORING, corrupt flesh, a corrupt soul, and a natural spirit of man; TO...a restored soul...ie very good
TO...a quickened spirit...is via Gods Seed...ie Gods Truth.
...
^ THAT process, IS “internal”, unseen to the human EYE.
^ THAT process, IS “ALWAYS and ONLY” accomplished...
AFTER a bodily DEATH.
* No man can SEE, the “internal” process of Gods Works “IN” a man...
saving his soul, quickening his spirit.
* Men certainly can SEE physically DEAD BODY’S, HOWEVER
* Men can not SEE a man spiritually giving his body unto Death (crucified with Jesus’ body).
* Once a man HAS...By, Through, Of....Gods ORDER and WAY...
Accepted Gods Offering...
...Repentance & Forgiveness for having HAD disbelief.
...Laid down his flesh body, unto death with Jesus’ body.
...Restoration of his soul.
...Quickening of his spirit.
...There IS NOTHING MORE IN Gods ORDER and WAY for that individual to do....to complete his “wholeness”. His “wholeness”, body, soul, spirit, is already, By, Through, Of Gods Power and Works, accomplished.
...ONCE ACCOMPLISHED, by, through, of Gods Power and Works....Gods own POWER KEEPS that “WHOLENESS” maintained FOREVER.
The KNOWLEDGE IS;
Men on earth suffer tribulations, caused by other men and evil spirits.
The KNOWLEDGE IS;
God Has Tribulations He sends down from Heaven. Warnings, Signs, wake up calls, (of sorts).
The KNOWLEDGE IS; Inanushell.
God Has Sent a GREAT Tribulation down from Heaven. Lifted UP a few off the face of the earth, called “saved”, and Destroyed the Earth, and the Occupants upon the face of the earth.
The KNOWLEDGE IS: Inanutshell.
God Has Foretold of another (and Last) GREAT Tribulation He shall AGAIN send down from Heaven. Again (nothing new, a repeat of what was). The Saved shall be Lifted UP off the face of the earth, called “saved”, and Destroy the Earth, and the Occupants upon the face of the earth.
(Sure there are some variations, however, inanutshell, Big Picture...
Saving/separating/Destroying...is end result.)
The Pre-Tribulation...LIFTING UP of those already MADE, WHOLE, body, soul, spirit, is expressly BECAUSE they ARE already MADE, WHOLE, body, soul, spirit. (THAT LIFTING UP, is expressly referenced as “the RAPTURE”)....the already made WHOLE...BEFORE the “UNKNOWN” Day, God shall begin SENDING DOWN from Heaven, “HIS Tribulations upon the earth and it’s occupants..........WHO DID NOT BECOME...
By, through, of, God Offering, Gods Power, Gods Works...made WHOLE.
There WAS no reason for God to “punish, correct” Noah, with Gods Tribulations, Gods Wrath. God was NOT angry with Noah. Gods was pleased with Noah’s belief in God, pleased with Noah’s DOING the preparations God instructed Noah to do.
There IS no reason for God to “punish, correct” the Converted, (who are WHOLE, body, soul, spirit). By a man accepting Gods Offering of Conversion, and becoming MADE WHOLE, that man HAS revealed his Belief IN God, Revealed his willingness to DO the preparations according to Gods instructions....and LIKE God being pleased with Noah....excepting Noah FROM Gods Tribulation and Wrath...
THE SAME APPLIES to a Converted man.
There is no “elementary text proof” words that are satisfactory to you.
* not to be condescending, but elementary, billeted points, are satisfactory for a preface, for introductions, for outlines.
* there are plenty of text proofs, of Gods Intent, Gods Desire, Gods Power, Gods Order, Gods Way, God Pleased, God Displeased, Gods Correction, Gods Anger, God Wrath, Gods Divisions, Gods Keeping, God Allowing.
* There are plenty of WARNINGS...
WITH God, is peace, comfort, joy.
IN God, is assured forever, peace, comfort, joy.
WiTHOUT God, is chaos, distress, anguish.
Believers are “WITH” God, broadly, sometimes, sometimes not.
Converted are “WITH and IN” God, securely forever with God.
UnBelievers are “WITHOUT” God, subject to Gods tribulations & wrath.
REMOVING the WITH and IN God BEFORE Gods Tribulation and Wrath that God SHALL Send down from Heaven upon the Earth and it’s occupants....ARE REMOVED from the Face of the Earth...BECAUSE they ARE NOT subject to Gods anger, nor are they appointed to wrath.
If you give your child something to accomplish, and they do accomplish....do you “then” become angry with them, correct them, unleash a punishment upon them?
@Taken Thoughtful post, indeed.....
Reading Scripture reminds me of climbing a mountain, which requires time and effort, and not until one had expended all the time and effort does one get to see a glorious panorama in the long distance, from the summit...
The Light
Well-Known Member
LOL. Oh boy. Enoch111 just made the point that it is prophesied that the Lord comes with His saints from heaven to execute judgement. And you avoid his question....because you truly have no answer. The truth would force you to admit your error. Wouldn't you rather proclaim the truth instead of walking in ignorance?
The burden of proof is with Pretribulationists to actually prove that their doctrine is in the Bible. None of them can show one Scripture that supports their paradigm. It is simply not there.
Exactly! That is what occurs at the one final future return of Christ.
It is so significant that Pretribs cannot present one single proof-text that teaches a rapture of the Church followed by a 7-year tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming of Christ?
Where in Scripture teaches a rapture of the Church followed by a 7-year tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming of Christ?
There is no “one-liner”. It is a study of the culmination of numerous scriptures of Gods will, intent, desire, promises, fulfillment’s.
Not sure what you are talking about a “3rd coming”. Expound?
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