Thy Kingdom come.

Robert Gwin · Jun 30, 2022

GEN2REV said:
The Kingdom has already come, Rob. What is it that you think is being handed over to the Father upon Christ's physical return in 1 Corinthians 15:24?

Every verse of Matthew 6:9-13 is in the present tense. "Thy Kingdom come" is an old english way of saying Thy Kingdom has come.

How about the last verse there? (Please don't bore us with all the nonsense about this verse not being legit.)

"For thine IS the kingdom and the power and the glory forever."
Matthew 6:13

There is ample evidence in Scripture that the kingdom has already come, Jesus is king of it and, for the record, Jesus resides here all over the entire earth among His faithful followers via the Holy Spirit.

He has come here to live within us and make His HOME with us, Rob.
John 14:21-23

We are His temple, Rob. Here upon the earth, Rob.

Pre-Mil is a joke.

Why is the earth the way it is Gen? The Kingdom is not handed over yet, and all things are not subjected to Jehovah as of now. The next step in the Kingdom arrangement is for the return of Jesus, on which we agree, however when he returns he will remove all those who do not know God, or obey the law of the Christ 2 Thes 1:6-9 and that includes removing the demons along with their leader who now reside on the earth, and lock them into the abyss. Jesus and his bride will rule over the earth for the following millennium and then when all things have been subjected to him, he will then hand the Kingdom back to his Father. satan and the demons will be released from their prison to roam the earth for a short time, then they along with those who choose to side with them will be cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:7-9

Robert Gwin · Jun 30, 2022

amadeus said:
I see not less than 3 heavens. Jesus alone among men had clearly been in all three. Consider what I wrote an earlier thread on this forum on this subject...

Where is hell? Where is heaven?

In the context we were speaking, that heaven was the residence of God and the angels sir. Our atmosphere is also called the heavens. You may very well be correct that it has other usages, but that is pretty much the extent of my knowledge on heaven(s).

Robert Gwin · Jun 30, 2022

Bob Estey said:
I talk to God. That is what Paul told us to do - constantly (1 Thessalonians 5:17).

As you should sir. How does He talk to us Bob?

GEN2REV · Jun 30, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
Why is the earth the way it is Gen? The Kingdom is not handed over yet, and all things are not subjected to Jehovah as of now.

That's correct. That is why.

The only visible manifestations of the current kingdom upon the earth today can be observed in Christ's True Followers' obedience and good deeds. The kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, for Jesus resides within those who are truly given over to Him in Spirit and in Truth; they are His Temple. He and the Father reside within them upon the earth. John 14:23

Until 1 Corinthians 15:24 happens, that is how it will be. And when that does happen, that is the end of this physical fallen earth. Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Peter 3:10-11

Immediately following is the New Heaven and New Earth. There is no Biblical precedent for a millennium that runs beyond Christ's return.

amadeus · Jun 30, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
In the context we were speaking, that heaven was the residence of God and the angels sir. Our atmosphere is also called the heavens. You may very well be correct that it has other usages, but that is pretty much the extent of my knowledge on heaven(s).

I have seen other things in the scripture and have several times, over the years, initiated threads on forums... including this one... on the subject of heavens. Consider a couple of types and shadows in the OT and what Jesus said in the NT: Three levels in the ark built by Noah under God's direction; Three distinct areas within the tabernacle in the wilderness built by the natural children of Israel under God's direction.

ScottA · Jun 30, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
When Jesus taught us to pray, he instructed us to pray for the Kingdom to come, so that God's will would be done on earth as it is in heaven. The Kingdom plays in heavily to the theme of the Bible, and is the primary reason Jesus came to earth, to preach the good news of that Kingdom.

For many this is a new thought, the Kingdom coming to earth, since most have been taught from infancy that you go to heaven when you die, leaving Jesus' words of the meek inheriting the earth somewhat puzzling.

What are some things you foresee about the coming of the Kingdom that you appreciate?

Indeed, when Jesus said that He would return, that where He is we "might be also", He was not speaking geographically, and yet out of this world. Which is to say, He spoke of the new heavens and new earth. Thus, all of what is written is true, even that part of the earth being dissolved with fervent heat and with fire--which is only a reference to this earth, and yet not the new earth. Therefore, it is referred to as "new."

This is like that word spoken by John the Baptist, saying, "He must increase, but I must decrease." Thus, as each leave this world "each in his own order", this old earth and world decrease, but He increases "unto the perfect day."

Bob Estey · Jun 30, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
As you should sir. How does He talk to us Bob?

He puts thoughts into our minds, wouldn't you say?

Pearl · Jun 30, 2022

God's King-dom is his authority and we pray for the earth to be under his authority just as heaven is.

Davy · Jun 30, 2022

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
Jesus, the King of God’s Kingdom, will destroy wicked people and governments at the war of Armageddon. (Revelation 16:14, 16) At that time, the following Bible promise will be completely fulfilled: “Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more.” (Psalm 37:10) Through the Kingdom, Jesus will make sure that peace and justice fill the earth.(Isaiah 11:4)
....

That is the false idea of men's doctrine called Amillennialism. It started in the 2nd century as a doctrine of men that crept into the early Churches, about the same time that the pagan Gnostics began creeping into the Church and trying to paganize Christian doctrine.

All the below Scriptures are for AFTER Christ's future return, and for during His "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20...

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

Zech 14:16-18
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
KJV

BARNEY BRIGHT · Jun 30, 2022

Davy said:
That is the false idea of men's doctrine called Amillennialism. It started in the 2nd century as a doctrine of men that crept into the early Churches, about the same time that the pagan Gnostics began creeping into the Church and trying to paganize Christian doctrine.

All the below Scriptures are for AFTER Christ's future return, and for during His "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20...

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

Zech 14:16-18
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
KJV

What you choose to believe or not believe is your choice, bu what you have said here doesn't disprove anything that I texted.

Robert Gwin · Jul 1, 2022

GEN2REV said:
That's correct. That is why.

The only visible manifestations of the current kingdom upon the earth today can be observed in Christ's True Followers' obedience and good deeds. The kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, for Jesus resides within those who are truly given over to Him in Spirit and in Truth; they are His Temple. He and the Father reside within them upon the earth. John 14:23

Until 1 Corinthians 15:24 happens, that is how it will be. And when that does happen, that is the end of this physical fallen earth. Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Peter 3:10-11

Immediately following is the New Heaven and New Earth. There is no Biblical precedent for a millennium that runs beyond Christ's return.

Yes, it is discernible among true Christians for sure Gen. The heavens are new now, as satan was cast out of heaven never to return, and I agree as well the new earth will be when satan and his followers are cast into the lake of fire, but that is after Jesus hands the Kingdom back to Jehovah, but I would say that the end of the "fallen earth" would be when the Kingdom comes correct? It is at that point that inherited death is no longer a factor.

Robert Gwin · Jul 1, 2022

amadeus said:
I have seen other things in the scripture and have several times, over the years, initiated threads on forums... including this one... on the subject of heavens. Consider a couple of types and shadows in the OT and what Jesus said in the NT: Three levels in the ark built by Noah under God's direction; Three distinct areas within the tabernacle in the wilderness built by the natural children of Israel under God's direction.

It is staggering the number of parallels, foreshadows, similarities, etc found in the Bible. I just learned one the other day I hadn't ever contemplated before Amad, how much Absalom paralled satan, did you ever pick up on that?

Robert Gwin · Jul 1, 2022

ScottA said:
Indeed, when Jesus said that He would return, that where He is we "might be also", He was not speaking geographically, and yet out of this world. Which is to say, He spoke of the new heavens and new earth. Thus, all of what is written is true, even that part of the earth being dissolved with fervent heat and with fire--which is only a reference to this earth, and yet not the new earth. Therefore, it is referred to as "new."

This is like that word spoken by John the Baptist, saying, "He must increase, but I must decrease." Thus, as each leave this world "each in his own order", this old earth and world decrease, but He increases "unto the perfect day."

You do know that this earth will remain forever correct Scott? There was nothing wrong with the earth, the heavens are new already with the ousting of satan, and with his final demise the earth will be new as well. The earth is the corrupted society that will be removed.

John did lead the way for the Messiah, as was prophesied. Are you familiar with the two groups of Christians sir?

Robert Gwin · Jul 1, 2022

Bob Estey said:
He puts thoughts into our minds, wouldn't you say?

I would agree that is true to his covenanted people, primarily the faithful slave whom Jesus assigned. The Bible is the primary way, and then the congregation feeding us so that we can walk in God's ways. Mat 24:45-47; Isa 2:2,3

amadeus · Jul 1, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
It is staggering the number of parallels, foreshadows, similarities, etc found in the Bible. I just learned one the other day I hadn't ever contemplated before Amad, how much Absalom paralled satan, did you ever pick up on that?

Specifically, no... Could you briefly describe what you have seen?

Davy · Jul 1, 2022

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
What you choose to believe or not believe is your choice, bu what you have said here doesn't disprove anything that I texted.

What I believe is because of what is actually 'written' in God's Word, and not some doctrine of men devised by those whom God did not call.

ScottA · Jul 1, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
You do know that this earth will remain forever correct Scott? There was nothing wrong with the earth, the heavens are new already with the ousting of satan, and with his final demise the earth will be new as well. The earth is the corrupted society that will be removed.

John did lead the way for the Messiah, as was prophesied. Are you familiar with the two groups of Christians sir?

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Not sure where you are getting your information Robert. What I was explaining was the decrease of this world of "elements", and the increase of that which is of God whom is spirit...including the new heavens and new earth (which is forever). That was the point and comparison of mentioning John the Baptist.

bbyrd009 · Jul 1, 2022

Robert Gwin said:
Certainly, you will likely agree that Jesus is the King of the Kingdom of God, his physical presence here on earth was a representation of that. One time when Jesus was being hassled by the leaders of the faith, he told them the Kingdom was right there among them, referring to himself being present.

When the Kingdom comes, Jesus will sit on the throne for a millennium, and the Kingdoms of the earth will be removed when it comes according to Dan 2:44. The Kings of the earth are right now gathering under the 8th king of Biblical prophecy, known as the United Nations. Soon God will put it into their hearts to attack babylon the great, which stands for the world empire of false religion. Rev 16:14-16; 17 gives the demise of babylon the great.

Robert Gwin said:
The Kingdom is actually what the definition of the word is Bob. It is a real government that is coming. It is ran very much like the United States is sir, it has a King (Jesus) and has advisors (the 144,000) and has citizens (all Christians). It will literally come and remove all the existing Kingdoms of the world when they stand in opposition to it. Dan 2:44; Rev 16:14-16

the kingdom does not come by observation

BARNEY BRIGHT · Jul 1, 2022

Davy said:
What I believe is because of what is actually 'written' in God's Word, and not some doctrine of men devised by those whom God did not call.

People in the past said what they believed was in the scriptures but were wrong, I understand that there are people like that in this world we're living in today. You disagree with me about what the scriptures say, and that's you're right to disagree. I disagree with what you say about what is the truth about what the scriptures are saying, and that is my right. I'm just saying that you haven't convinced me of what you've said that it's consistent with the scriptures, you can say they are all you want but you haven't convinced me, so I'm not changing anything I said.

Davy · Jul 1, 2022

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
People in the past said what they believed was in the scriptures but were wrong, I understand that there are people like that in this world we're living in today. You disagree with me about what the scriptures say, and that's you're right to disagree. I disagree with what you say about what is the truth about what the scriptures are saying, and that is my right. I'm just saying that you haven't convinced me of what you've said that it's consistent with the scriptures, you can say they are all you want but you haven't convinced me, so I'm not changing anything I said.

And that's your right to think I'm wrong, but I am not wrong about the false doctrines of Amillennialism, and it's so easy to disprove, which is exactly what my post #29 above did, BY THE SCRIPTURES. Therefore, that proof, FROM GOD'S WORD AS WRITTEN, is what disagrees with that Amillennial theory.

So instead of addressing those Scripture proofs I gave against man's doctrine of Amillennialism, you instead tried to argue against me instead, showing what? It shows that you actually HAVE NO recourse against the written Scripture, so you think you have to attack somewhere else. It reveals the fakeness of men's doctrines you've latched onto, and now has you backed in a corner because of relying on them.

Thy Kingdom come.

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