Spotting Heretics

Michiah-Imla said:

And if the “church” does not obey the Holy Bible…?

Follow the logic through.

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The bible isn't subject to just anyone's interpretation. One of the real problems you haven't resolved.is there is no way for you to submit to truth since you don't believe there is anyone on earth that knows it.

EloyCraft said:

But what you describe as a Church bears no resemblance to the Church Jesus started.

If my brother is believing something never taught before I might have to take him to a higher authority than my self and others. If He won't listen to those with authority to teach the faith Then there is no higher authority to go to on earth. Would your vision of the Church be equipped to resolve such issues? If I asked where I can take my brother for correction would you be able to point it out and tell me to take him there?

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I was not implying in any way that the true church of God has no spiritual leadership. It does! Among all us believers that constitute the body of Christ are particular people appointed to fill various offices of authority. I'm contending the assertion that the Catholic church leadership is the hierarchy God has established within the body of believers. When a group of believers meets regularly it becomes evident who has been given some kind of leadership authority and who has not. Just as the giving of the other gifts of the Spirit to various people in the body of Christ becomes evident.

EloyCraft said:

there is no way for you to submit to truth since you don't believe there is anyone on earth that knows it.

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Many know it.

But few submit to it.

Marymog said:

If your theory was true, that "each believer has within himself the anointing from God to know if what he hears (what he is taught) is the truth or not", then why do so many denominations or individual Christians believe they are teaching or KNOW the Truth?

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Because not everybody is truly saved for them to even have that anointing in the first place. And, growing up into the knowledge and stature of Christ among true born again believers is a process. We don't instantly become educated in all things Christ when we are born again. This truth is taught in Ephesians 4:13. To try to validate the true church by whether or not they all agree with each other is contradictory to that truth.

Michiah-Imla said:

And if the “church” does not obey the Holy Bible…?

Follow the logic through.

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I am speaking of The Church. The Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth and of whom we are to obey, can not teach anything other than the Truth. God will not allow it because the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

I think you are speaking of the thousands of Protestant denominations worldwide that are not obeying the Bible....of which you are probably a member of one of them.

Marymog said:

I apologize for not understanding what you are saying.

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Oh, by the way. I appreciate this. Thank you!

Ferris Bueller said:

Because not everybody is truly saved for them to even have that anointing in the first place. And, growing up into the knowledge and stature of Christ among true born again believers is a process. We don't instantly become educated in all things Christ when we are born again. This truth is taught in Ephesians 4:13. To try to validate the true church by whether or not they all agree with each other is contradictory to that truth.

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Ok....so one has to be truly saved before they can KNOW the Truth? Is that what you are saying?

Ferris Bueller said:

I was not implying in any way that the true church of God has no spiritual leadership. It does! Among all us believers that constitute the body of Christ are particular people appointed to fill various offices of authority. I'm contending the assertion that the Catholic church leadership is the hierarchy God has established within the body of believers. When a group of believers meets regularly it becomes evident who has some been given some kind of leadership authority and who has not. Just as the giving of the other gifts of the Spirit to various people in the body of Christ becomes evident.

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Does their authority allow them to teach the Faith infallibly?

Marymog said:

The Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth and of whom we are to obey, can not teach anything other than the Truth

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Your “church” organization is infallible?

You don’t believe that, do you?

Marymog said:

The Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth and of whom we are to obey, can not teach anything other than the Truth

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Many churches do teach lies.

It’s most certainly possible for a church to teach lies.

Marymog said:

Can you not see how your theory takes you in a big circle: Ferris knows his men are teaching him the Truth because the men that are teaching him have the anointing from God so they must be teaching the truth because it is God who is anointing them into the Truth even if their Truth disagrees with men who have an anointing from God!

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Ferris knows WHICH men are teaching him the truth. Not HIS men. And more and more as time goes on. I do not belong to an official denomination. That would be impossible for me to do since after all these years of learning I now realize that no one official organization possesses the full truth. As I've been saying, I do not believe there is any one identifiable organization of believers in the world at this time that officially represents Christianity truly and accurately as in the time of the Apostles. The whole truth is scattered across the spectrum of our various doctrinal creeds. There is probably even bits of truth in your church. But to say your church possesses the whole truth and nothing but the truth is simply not true.

Michiah-Imla said:

Many churches do teach lies.

It’s most certainly possible for a church to teach lies.

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I agree. There are many denominations that teach lies. But The Church can't.

Michiah-Imla said:

Your “church” organization is infallible?

You don’t believe that, do you?

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The Church is infallible...just like Scripture says. I have found that Church.

Have you?

Marymog said:

Your men have taught you that 1 John 2 speaks directly to you about YOU. That YOU have an anointing from the Holy One and that YOU know the truth. What if YOUR truth differs from the men who taught you that?

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That's easy. Obviously, one of us doesn't have the truth about whatever it is that we differ about yet (which the Bible affirms). Or, we're dealing with a matter that has not been revealed by God and which then gets relegated to the category of 'matters of conscience'.

I believe the Bible that says we are all growing up into the truth and that we're all progressing at different stages. And, because of the inevitable corruption of man, there is at this time in church history no one official clearinghouse of truth outside of the Bible itself. In fact, I say the time of the Apostles was the only time an official clearinghouse of truth existed. Thankfully, the truths they taught have been recorded in the pages of our Bibles and available for us to learn and discern through the annointing of the Holy Spirit we have been given. And so the Bible itself is the clearinghouse of truth in our day and age, not the Catholic church, or any other church organization. But surely, some are closer to possessing and discerning the whole truth than others are.

Marymog said:

The Church is infallible...just like Scripture says. I have found that Church.

Have you?

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I am assuming your are referring to the Roman Catholic Church (forgive me if I am wrong).

So where in the Bible are you taught to pray to anyone but unto God and Christ?

Where in the Bible are the instructions on church decore (mimicking the instruments and procedures of the Old Testament temple)?

Where are the instructions regarding church garments for the church officials (Pope, Cardinals, etc.)?

Last I checked the New Testament records no event where God spoke to any Apostles with these specifics; as when God instructed Moses on the tabernacle measurements and garment designs for the Levites.

All these things are extra biblical.

Marymog said:

I agree. There are many denominations that teach lies. But The Church can't.

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You're doing it again. You're defining the church as the Catholic church organization, instead of what it actually is - the sum total of all believers in their various stages of knowledge and growth. That improper definition slants everything you build on it.

There is only one true church; the collection of individual souls in whom the Spirit of God resides. Not the collection of souls who attend the Catholic church.

Marymog said:

The Church is infallible...just like Scripture says.

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But your definition of the church is flawed.

Michiah-Imla said:

Many know it.

But few submit to it.

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Why are those who the truth belongs to keeping it from the rest of us? That would make a protestant Church more re like the Church in the New Testament. It would be more Incarnational. The Church is Incarnational like Our Lord. It is given the mission of Incarnating Christ in the world until He returns.

Ferris Bueller said:

But your definition of the church is flawed.

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Lol....Ok Ferris.

What is my definition of The Church?

Ferris Bueller said:

You're doing it again. You're defining the church as the Catholic church organization, instead of what it actually is - the sum total of all believers in their various stages of knowledge and growth. That improper definition slants everything you build on it.

There is only one true church; the collection of individual souls in whom the Spirit of God resides. Not the collection of souls who attend the Catholic church.

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Show me in Scripture where it says The Church is the sum total of all believers in their various stages of knowledge and growth and I will join you!