The Idea of Two Gospels

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Oct 22, 2011
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Well I suppose we all have to tear out all that was written by Paul.

No, to the contrary, I revere the Apostle Paul's teachings. It was your post that appeared to ignore Paul's teachings as inconsequential NOT mine. However, if Paul's words or any of the other NT writings conflict with the testimony of Jesus then they should be rightfully rejected or at minimum understood as subordinate to the Lord Jesus' commands.




Okay since you wish to imply what I say as musing, tell me this, did Jesus ever reciend the Law of Moses? And while you are at it did Peter in the book of Act ever reciend the Law of Moses? ---- Matthew 23:1-3
23 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,
2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. NKJV

It is clear to me that Jesus is telling them that they are still under tyheLaw of Moses and I defy you to find anyplace Jesus reciended the Law of Moses.

Spell-check is our friend, Richard. Why don't you use it?

Musing isn't inherently a derogatory act:

muse ( my›z) v. mused mus·ing mus·es v. intr. 1. To be absorbed in one's thoughts; engage in meditation. See note at ponder . v. tr. 1. To consider or say thoughtfully: mused that it might take longer to drive than walk. n. 1. A state of meditation. [Middle English musen from Old French muser ( possibly from mus snout) (from Medieval Latin m¿sum)or of Germanic origin] mus “ing·ly adv. --American Heritage Dictionary


Because the book of Acts is a transistional book, from the law and the Jewish covenant to the gospel of grace.

Whether or not the book of Acts is a transistional book, it also mentions the redemptive properties of "blood" Acts 20:28. The book of Acts is no more or less important for instruction in righteousness than the other volumes of the New Testament.





Your not listening are you. I never said to look in Paul's writings did I. Of course Paul writes about about the shed blood. That is mostly all he writes about.

The fact that 1st John and 1st Peter write about the blood is because it is many years after Paul started precahing the gospel of grace, about AD 67.

So, Paul's writings may motivated the other Apostles to new insights their gospel may have overlooked. Isn't that "a good thing"?

However let us look at what James wrote and see if he is preaching the shed blood of Jesus for salvation.

1. The word “Law” is found in 18 places
2. The word “grace” is found in 2 places
3. The word “Christ” is found in 2 places
4. The word “Justified” is found in 2 place with the words “by works” after them
5. The words “by faith” is found 1 time (justified by works and not by faith only)
6. The word “cross” is not found
7. The word “reconciled” is not found
8. The word “sanctified” is not found
9. The word “saved” is not found
10. The words “in Christ” are not found
11. The shed blood of Jesus on the cross is not mentioned.

Because the one and only surviving five chapter Book of James doesn't happen to mention certain words, what does that matter? There are a host of other words not mentioned either. Neither does James mention the words, "baptize", "repent", "gospel", "fasting", "Word of God", "forgive", "Sabbath" (or NY Yankees) FTM. So what? Are you suggesting that we are to determine correct scriptural exegesis by some sort of mathematical formula of each of the writers inclusion or exclusion of certain words? Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of their absence.
 

RichardBurger

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No, to the contrary, I revere the Apostle Paul's teachings. It was your post that appeared to ignore Paul's teachings as inconsequential NOT mine. However, if Paul's words or any of the other NT writings conflict with the testimony of Jesus then they should be rightfully rejected or at minimum understood as subordinate to the Lord Jesus' commands.






Spell-check is our friend, Richard. Why don't you use it?

Musing isn't inherently a derogatory act:

muse ( my›z) v. mused mus·ing mus·es v. intr. 1. To be absorbed in one's thoughts; engage in meditation. See note at ponder . v. tr. 1. To consider or say thoughtfully: mused that it might take longer to drive than walk. n. 1. A state of meditation. [Middle English musen from Old French muser ( possibly from mus snout) (from Medieval Latin m¿sum)or of Germanic origin] mus “ing·ly adv. --American Heritage Dictionary




Whether or not the book of Acts is a transistional book, it also mentions the redemptive properties of "blood" Acts 20:28. The book of Acts is no more or less important for instruction in righteousness than the other volumes of the New Testament.







So, Paul's writings may motivated the other Apostles to new insights their gospel may have overlooked. Isn't that "a good thing"?



Because the one and only surviving five chapter Book of James doesn't happen to mention certain words, what does that matter? There are a host of other words not mentioned either. Neither does James mention the words, "baptize", "repent", "gospel", "fasting", "Word of God", "forgive", "Sabbath" (or NY Yankees) FTM. So what? Are you suggesting that we are to determine correct scriptural exegesis by some sort of mathematical formula of each of the writers inclusion or exclusion of certain words? Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of their absence.



Spell check! You understood what I meant so why do you make it an issue?. Oh yes I forgot, it inflates your ego. By the way we are to "rightly divide" the word of God, not blend it.

No one has shown me any scriptures in the N.T. and the preaching of Peter in Acts that say we are no longer under the Law of Moses and saved by faith in Jesus' shed blood on the cross. The reason is because there are none. -- Only Paul taught that we are dead to the Law and saved by grace. But you refuse to see it.

The preaching of Peter and Stephens to the Jews was that they, the Jews were to repent of killing Jesus and it was something for them (the Jews) to be ashamed of. But Paul says we are to glory in the cross because it is the power of God unto salvation.

Jesus said the following but the religious say he didn't really mean it.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

But the religious will not believe Jesus said this.
 

Episkopos

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Have anyone come up with a skewed theory as to why only the gospel of John says one must be born again?
 

veteran

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Actually, Apostle Peter did... declare The Gospel of Jesus Christ, of His shed blood upon the cross, with this...

Acts 10:36-44
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (He is Lord of all:)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: Who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with Him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed Him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with Him after He rose from the dead.
42 And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He Which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(KJV)


Peter not only preached The Gospel to those Gentiles among Cornelius, but Peter was a direct witness of The Gospel of Jesus Christ involving Christ's Blood shed upon the cross.
 

RichardBurger

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Actually, Apostle Peter did... declare The Gospel of Jesus Christ, of His shed blood upon the cross, with this...

Acts 10:36-44
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (He is Lord of all:)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: Who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with Him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed Him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with Him after He rose from the dead.
42 And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He Which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(KJV)


Peter not only preached The Gospel to those Gentiles among Cornelius, but Peter was a direct witness of The Gospel of Jesus Christ involving Christ's Blood shed upon the cross.

Good try but it missed the mark. Peter is still trying to get them to accept Jesus as their Messiah and king. The blood is not mentioned as a means of grace.

quote; "that it is He Which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead" This does not say it is through His shed blood that men are saved under grace.
 

Episkopos

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Could the bible have been written in such a way as to weed out the "lawyers" among us?
 

RichardBurger

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No, to the contrary, I revere the Apostle Paul's teachings. It was your post that appeared to ignore Paul's teachings as inconsequential NOT mine. However, if Paul's words or any of the other NT writings conflict with the testimony of Jesus then they should be rightfully rejected or at minimum understood as subordinate to the Lord Jesus' commands.






Spell-check is our friend, Richard. Why don't you use it?

Musing isn't inherently a derogatory act:

muse ( my›z) v. mused mus·ing mus·es v. intr. 1. To be absorbed in one's thoughts; engage in meditation. See note at ponder . v. tr. 1. To consider or say thoughtfully: mused that it might take longer to drive than walk. n. 1. A state of meditation. [Middle English musen from Old French muser ( possibly from mus snout) (from Medieval Latin m¿sum)or of Germanic origin] mus “ing·ly adv. --American Heritage Dictionary




Whether or not the book of Acts is a transistional book, it also mentions the redemptive properties of "blood" Acts 20:28. The book of Acts is no more or less important for instruction in righteousness than the other volumes of the New Testament.







So, Paul's writings may motivated the other Apostles to new insights their gospel may have overlooked. Isn't that "a good thing"?



Because the one and only surviving five chapter Book of James doesn't happen to mention certain words, what does that matter? There are a host of other words not mentioned either. Neither does James mention the words, "baptize", "repent", "gospel", "fasting", "Word of God", "forgive", "Sabbath" (or NY Yankees) FTM. So what? Are you suggesting that we are to determine correct scriptural exegesis by some sort of mathematical formula of each of the writers inclusion or exclusion of certain words? Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of their absence.

And for you James 1:1 doesn't mean a thing.
 
Oct 22, 2011
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And for you James 1:1 doesn't mean a thing.


This 88 post thread has drifted from the original topic. And since you've gotten to the stage where you are answering replies with one sentence. A brief summation of your thoughts on the two gospels, what they each entail and to whom each applies would be welcomed.
 

RichardBurger

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This 88 post thread has drifted from the original topic. And since you've gotten to the stage where you are answering replies with one sentence. A brief summation of your thoughts on the two gospels, what they each entail and to whom each applies would be welcomed.

Be glad to. Jusat keep reading.

AN OVERVIEW OF THE BIBLE:

I thought I would like to pen what I feel, IMHO, is an overview (the big picture) of the Bible. First let me make it clear that in my understanding, the entire Bible is written "FOR US" but not all of it is written "TO US." I believe this fact “MUST” be understood in order to understand the Bible. If we don’t we will always be trying to put square pegs into round holes and round pegs into square holes.

A. THE AGE OF GOD'S MERCY:

From the Garden of Eden to Abraham God dealt with mankind by showing mercy to those that would acknowledge Him and respect Him as God. It must be noted that at that time all of mankind were Gentiles.

B. THE AGE OF THE NATION OF ISRAEL:

After the Tower of Babel God turned His back on all of mankind except for Abrams. God started a new race of people to be His chosen (elect) race (the Jews) with Abraham (Abrams) being the first. The sign of being a Jew was circumcision. God made promises (covenants) to Abraham concerning what He would do for him and his children, in the flesh, if they would acknowledge Him and respect His ways. God made additional promises to Isaac, Jacob and Moses. All of these promises were God's way of dealing with His chosen people, the Jews. God promised the Jews that they would have a nation on this earth and that God would send a king to rule the earth through this nation called Israel. The fulfillment of these covenants with the Jewish people was what Jesus preached when He came (the gospel of the kingdom). It is this earthly kingdom, promised to the nation of Israel, that Jesus spoke of when He said the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Gen 12:3 (NKJ)
3 I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." (this promise included the Gentiles)
God's promise(s) to Abraham: Gen 22:17-18 (NKJ)
17 "blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.
18 "In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."

At this time there are only two peoples in the world, Jews and Gentiles. In Gen 12:3 above we see that the Gentiles who bless the nation of Israel shall be blessed along with the nation of Israel. This is why Cornelius was given salvation in Acts 10. The writer of Acts said much about the things that Cornelius did for the Jews (blessings to the Jews).

A side note: In Gen 22:17 we see the word "descendants," it is plural, not singular and it refers to Abraham's children in the flesh. In verse 18 we see the word "seed" and it is singular, not plural, and it is referring to Christ. It should also be noted that in verse 17 we see a promise God made to the descendants (plural) that they "shall possess the gates of their enemies." This has never been fulfilled. Read Isaiah 54:1-8, Ps 72 and know that these words have not been fulfilled either. But they will all be fulfilled during the 1000-year reign of Christ on this earth. ---- In Gal 3:16 we see Jesus as the SEED (one). The promise of righteousness by faith was made to Abraham AND HIS SEED (Jesus), --- NOT SEEDS (THE JEWS)

Let me say it again, the promise of righteousness by belief (faith) was ONLY MADE TO ABRAHAM AND HIS SEED, Jesus. It was not made to all men AT THAT TIME.

It should also be noted that God keeps His promises and that when Jesus comes back He will set up His kingdom just as it was promised to the Jews. --- See Matthew 25:31-46 (sheep and goat judgment) and note the reasons given for the sheep to enter into the 1000-year kingdom reign of Christ's kingdom on this earth. To say that these are children of God (believers saved under grace) is to say that that they have become saved without faith in Christ and being born of God. Therefore, this judgment is only to establish which Gentiles will go into the 1000-year reign of Christ on this earth and it will be because they blessed the Jews.

During the time from Abraham to Christ, God had men prophesy about a Messiah that would be sent by God to save the Jewish people, His people, and that He (the Messiah) would rule from Jerusalem. The scriptures shown above are some of those scriptures of prophecy.

C. THE AGE OF THE LAW:

Starting with Moses God instituted the Jewish laws and the Jews were commanded to do them. This was the beginning of the dispensation of law and was in effect, for the Jews, until the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70 AD. God's relationship with the nation of Israel was one of faith in God, AND doing the works of the law (faith + works, James 2:24). If you can see it, the main thing that Jesus told the Jews is that they had left out the "faith in God" part and only had faith in their religion (works) (read Luke 7:1-9 and notice verse 9 and read John 5:38-40).

D. THE ARRIVAL OF THE MESSIAH:

Let me make it clear that Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the "kingdom of heaven" TO the Gentiles. The following scriptures support my view.
Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)

5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)

23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all that was written of Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8.

E. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE NATION OF ISRAEL?

From Acts 1 until Acts 7 (or perhaps 70 AD) the Jewish nation could have repented and accepted Jesus as their savior. He would have returned for His second coming and set up His kingdom rule from Jerusalem and all Gentile nations would be blessed through Israel. Read Luke 13:6-9 and realize that Jesus told this story as an indication of what would happen if Israel (the fig tree) rejected Jesus. The Jews had a time period in which they could have repented. (Acts 2:37-38)

Luke 13:6-9 (The Parable of the Barren Fig Tree)

6 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
7 Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?'
8 But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it.
9 And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.'"
NKJV

However, just as the nation of Israel rejected God when they said they wanted a human king to rule over them, (1 Samuel 8:19 and 10:19) they also rejected the Son of God when they said they "had no king but Caesar," (John 19:15) and, finally, they rejected the Holy Spirit when they stoned Stephens, Acts 7. They had rejected all three in the Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, who was speaking through Stephens, and their doom was sealed. The "kingdom of heaven" on this earth was put on hold until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled, Luke 21:24. During the time between Jesus’ crucifixion and the destruction of the Temple the 12 Apostles (digging around the fig tree) had not been able to convince the Jews that Jesus was their Messiah.

IMPORTANT NOTE: -- This is not to say that God did not have another purpose for Jesus' death on the cross. But that purpose was “hidden in God” and revealed to Paul on the road to Damascus by Jesus. (Eph 3:9)

F. THE GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD AS GIVEN TO PAUL:

As said above, God had a hidden secondary purpose for the death of Jesus on the cross. From Jesus, and the preaching of the "Kingdom of Heaven," to this time in which we now live is a new dispensation and it was not mentioned in the O.T. it was not mentioned in the first 4 books of the N.T. nor was it mentioned in the Jewish writings of the 12. This new gospel was ""hidden in God"" and revealed to Paul by Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus, Acts 9:3-6 and Eph 3:8-9.

All that was written "to the Jews" in the O.T. and the N.T. was written "to the Jews," not to the Gentiles. Is it necessary for us to understand them? YES. If we don't then we are missing the foundation for understanding who Jesus is and the shift to the gospel of God's grace. The message of salvation by God's grace, "alone," given to Paul, and was without precedence. It was not in the Jewish relationship with God. The Jewish relationship was a religious one of "faith + works to show that faith" (James 2:24). However, the gospel of God's grace requires no works whatsoever. God has done all the works that are necessary on the cross. As Paul said;

Rom 4:5-6 (NKJ)
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Only Paul penned the words "in Christ" for he understood that God places those that believe in Him "in Christ" by the operation of the Holy Spirit (new birth). Man cannot accomplish this new birth. This idea of being "in Christ" was totally new. Up to this time it was all in a religious relationship of works, rituals and ceremonies.

1 Cor 6:11 (NKJ)
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and """"by the Spirit of our God.""""

It should be noticed that only Paul talks about the rapture (caught up in the air )

1 Thessalonians 4:17-18). It is only for those that are saved under the gospel of the grace of God. These have NOT been promised an earthly kingdom but have become Children of the living God. According to Paul we are promised a place in heaven.

I have often thought, that since Israel (the Jews) rejected God and the whole world was to be saved through them, Satan must have thought he had won. But Satan did not know that there was a "hidden gospel" that had existed in God from the beginning (Ephesians 3:9). This gospel was going to save many by what God did on the cross and it had nothing to do with the nation of Israel (the Jews) or a person's ability to work for their salvation in religions. It was no longer to be by what a man can do for salvation. It is now based solely on what God has done, and will do, for mankind. It is completely based on God's power both to save, and to keep saved, a person.

1 Cor 2:7-10 (NKJ)
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him."
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

Matt 19:25-26 (NKJ)
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
God no longer deals with mankind through, good works, rituals, ceremonies and organized religions. He deals with each individual person in his, or her, heart and that is where salvation occurs. It has nothing to do with external things.

G. THE OLD REPLACED BY THE NEW:

2 Cor 3:6-18 (NKJ)
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the """new covenant,""" not of the letter (Law) but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
9 For if the ministry of condemnation (the Law) had glory, the ministry of righteousness (grace) exceeds much more in glory.

Note that there are two Ministries mentioned in the verses above and one is being replaced.

10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.

11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech--
13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as ""by"" the Spirit of the Lord.

Heb 7:18-22 (NKJ)
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath
21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: "The Lord has sworn and will not relent, 'You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek' "),
22 by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.
Heb 8:6-7 (NKJ)

6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant (Law) had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

If there was never any other gospel (covenant) than the gospel of the grace of God, as some claim, why was it necessary to replace an old covenant (gospel)? If one was "unprofitable" then it must have failed to be profitable. In order to replace the old, the old had to exist in order to be replaced.

Jesus and the 12 (or 11) taught the gospel of the Abrahamic Covenant. A covenant to which the law was added (Gal 3:16-19). The law failed because of " its weakness and unprofitable-ness" It was "unprofitable" because of the weakness of men. Men could not live up to the standards of God's perfect laws. But Jesus did and He did it for us.

Notice that in Acts 3:21 Peter is proclaiming things made known by the prophets since the world began. In contrast, in the book of Romans, 16:25, Paul is proclaiming things kept secret since the world began. Something made known cannot be a secret and something kept secret has not been made known. Notice that Peter proclaimed the crucifixion of Jesus as something for the Jews to repent of (Acts 2) where Paul proclaimed that he gloried in the cross of Christ (Gal 6:11-15). Clearly, Peter and Paul proclaimed two different messages.

Through Paul, God ushered in a new plan of salvation that does not depend on sinful man's ability to live up to God's standards. It all depends on the fact that Jesus DID live up to God's standards. Under the gospel of the grace of God a person must trust in God's Son (John 3:16-18). By that I mean, have faith, trust, confidence, and hope in what Jesus did on the cross to pay for our sins. When that happens God places that person "in Christ."

The story of the "wedding feast is an analogy of these events (Matt. 22:1-13). The wedding garments are the righteousness that God gives a person. A man was thrown out because he chose to wear his own righteousness (Romans 10:3-4).

Most all "religious" people are seeking to produce good works in their lives to earn salvation. This is a never-ending battle that is filled only with frustration and defeat. Until they accept the true gospel of Jesus Christ, they will never be able to rest in His finished work on the cross and consequently will never be able to experience the liberty of new life in Christ.

True liberty can come only in Christ. Only when we realize that we are SECURE in Him can we cease from our own works and rest in His work on the cross. This gives us a position of complete peace with God.

Heb 3:11-12 (NKJ)
11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.' "
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of ""unbelief"" in departing from the living God;

Heb 4:1-3 (NKJ)
1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

NOTE: 3 For we who have believed ""do enter that rest,"" as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:9-11 (NKJ)
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

Note verse 10
10 For he who """"has""" entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. (unbelief = disobedience, see Heb 3:11-12 and Heb. 4:2,3)

We enter His rest and cease from our own works when we believe in Him (have faith, trust, confidence, and hope in His work on the cross), and not in our own works. To be disobedient is to NOT believe in what God has done on the cross, and instead, believe that you can be saved by what you do.

This is how I see it.

Written by H. Richard Burger
 

Prentis

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As I have stated before, sinful man can not overcome by his/her works. The children of God overcome by placing their faith in the work of God on the cross.

Avoidance is quite the skill, Richard! ;)

Of course we cannot overcome by the flesh. But can we overcome by the Spirit, like Paul says?

Or maybe that's just more figurative speech, for your figurative salvation.

You speak of a salvation apart from God's character, where he makes a deal with man, and says 'believe, and I'll save you', yet it has no bearing on reality!
 

Vengle

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Of course in this world today with more than 7 billion people who pride themselves in intelligence there are some 7 billion different gospels. :lol:

But for us there is One. For us there has always been One. And He is our gospel. One gospel, one faith, one spirit, one body.

And our power to overcome is in His One Word, rejecting our own.

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

If we let that word take root in us it is the power and the strength of God to overcome.

Psalms 1:1 "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."

See deeply. Who is this Jacob? This O Israel of Isaiah 49?:

Isaiah 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
19 Thy seed also had been as the sand, and the offspring of thy bowels like the gravel thereof; his name should not have been cut off nor destroyed from before me.
20 Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob.
21 And they thirsted not when he led them through the deserts: he caused the waters to flow out of the rock for them: he clave the rock also, and the waters gushed out.
22 There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.

Isaiah 49:1 ¶Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.
5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
 

RichardBurger

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Avoidance is quite the skill, Richard! ;)

Of course we cannot overcome by the flesh. But can we overcome by the Spirit, like Paul says?

Or maybe that's just more figurative speech, for your figurative salvation.

You speak of a salvation apart from God's character, where he makes a deal with man, and says 'believe, and I'll save you', yet it has no bearing on reality!

If you say so.
 

Prentis

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Amen Vengle! Very much like what you said "And our power to overcome is in His One Word, rejecting our own."

Our own word and way is opposed to his, the natural is enmity to God, unless we cast it off and count it dung, unless we betray it, we cannot embrace HIS word, in which is the power to overcome.
 

RichardBurger

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Of course in this world today with more than 7 billion people who pride themselves in intelligence there are some 7 billion different gospels. :lol:

But for us there is One. For us there has always been One. And He is our gospel. One gospel, one faith, one spirit, one body.

And our power to overcome is in His One Word, rejecting our own.

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

I truely believe that what I wrote is true. It is certainly based on the scriptures. But you can believe what ever you wish.

I am curious as to the verse from John. I have been saying that the flesh profiteth nothing all alone. Flesh can not make it'self perfect.
 

Prentis

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I truely believe that what I wrote is true. It is certainly based on the scriptures. But you can believe what ever you wish.

I am curious as to the verse from John. I have been saying that the flesh profiteth nothing all alone. Flesh can not make it'self perfect.

I am sure you do believe what you write, Richard. :) I say this honestly...

But many here see a disconnect between what you say and what is in the word. You say the flesh profits nothing, but then you say things that either mean we don't have a new nature or that we can't walk by it, and also things that say obedience to God is meaningless... Yet we are supposed to walk in the Spirit!

In doing this, what becomes obvious is that the power of the gospel is not being promoted, but rather a gospel that turns out to be a scheme whereby we may be declared saved on the basis of another. It sounds right to the ear, but it isn't...

The gospel is supposed to be real, in power. We receive power to be as he is freely, and on the basis of his love alone, not of anything we have done. But what we do with that power is what we will be judged by.
 

Vengle

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I truely believe that what I wrote is true. It is certainly based on the scriptures. But you can believe what ever you wish.

I am curious as to the verse from John. I have been saying that the flesh profiteth nothing all alone. Flesh can not make it'self perfect.

Did you catch that it was Jesus who also was leading that nation of Israel under the Old Law Covenant?

See deeply. Who is this Jacob? This O Israel of Isaiah 49?:

Isaiah 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
19 Thy seed also had been as the sand, and the offspring of thy bowels like the gravel thereof; his name should not have been cut off nor destroyed from before me.
20 Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob.
21 And they thirsted not when he led them through the deserts: he caused the waters to flow out of the rock for them: he clave the rock also, and the waters gushed out.
22 There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.

Isaiah 49:1Listen, O isles, unto me (unto Jesus, the Word of God); and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.
5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.


Who is this Jacob? This O Israel of Isaiah 49? It is Jesus. Jesus is Israel. The only way anyone can be Israel is to become his seed in him.

The flesh was always used only to demonstrate this.

There has always been only the One and the Same gospel of the foretold Messiah.
 

veteran

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Good try but it missed the mark. Peter is still trying to get them to accept Jesus as their Messiah and king. The blood is not mentioned as a means of grace. quote; "that it is He Which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead" This does not say it is through His shed blood that men are saved under grace.

Acts 10:42 And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He Which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.

If that isn't about Grace per The New Testament, then you're a turnip.
 

RichardBurger

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Acts 10:42 And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He Which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.

If that isn't about Grace per The New Testament, then you're a turnip.

Then I suspose I am a turnip.

In Acts 2 we see Peter telling the Jews that they had killed their Messiah and King. He then told the Jews that they could stiil be saved and their sin removed if they would accept Jesus. -- Yes believing in Jesus as their Messiah and King would certainly remove their sins. But no where does he say that they no longer have to keep the Law of Moses. As a matter of fact Jesus told the Jews that the Pharisees sat in Moses seat and what they told them to do, do. --- Doesn't sound like grace to me but what do I know I am a turnip.
 

Prentis

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Once again, you use all these things to try and divide the body into Jew and Gentile, you rebuild the middle wall of partition! But what God has made one, let no man separate.

God came to fulfill righteousness, and the prophets, not destroy it. The old was an image of the new. Knowing this, we see that it is now according to the Spirit, because it is not what enters man that makes him evil, but what is in his heart.

But you don't believe in walking in the Spirit! ALL have been called to the same new nature, the difference is that they have a different starting point from which they get there, some Jews, some Gentiles, thus Paul speaks differently, and brings the gospel from a different angle. It is still the one and same gospel, and if our understanding of it conflicts with Peter, James, John.... JESUS!... we should look again and see how both say the same thing, when we have the correct understanding.
 

Vengle

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Then I suspose I am a turnip.

In Acts 2 we see Peter telling the Jews that they had killed their Messiah and King. He then told the Jews that they could stiil be saved and their sin removed if they would accept Jesus. -- Yes believing in Jesus as their Messiah and King would certainly remove their sins. But no where does he say that they no longer have to keep the Law of Moses. As a matter of fact Jesus told the Jews that the Pharisees sat in Moses seat and what they told them to do, do. --- Doesn't sound like grace to me but what do I know I am a turnip.

At that time the Old Law Covenant was yet in force. It did not end until the New Covenant was inagurated by the outpouring of Holy Spirit at Penticost in the year 36 CE.

Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."