Devil/ Evil

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Christina

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I wonder, how come you guys became easely saying someone or any one as a devil ?Is itn't not us who can judge it ? RickyWe believe God created the world perfect there was no sin,evil excreta. As God is not capable of evil. All sin, evil was brought to man through Satan(Devil) and his rebellion. So all things evil orginated with Satan. So when we see somthing evil or sinful we say it is of Satan or the devil meaning it is sinful or against God. Anything that is against God is sin(evil) and must be Repented for. In the case of this false doctrine we are talking it is against Gods teaching so we call it evil or of the devil.
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(kriss)
I wonder, how come you guys became easely saying someone or any one as a devil ?Is itn't not us who can judge it ? RickyWe believe God created the world perfect there was no sin,evil excreta. As God is not capable of evil. All sin, evil was brought to man through Satan(Devil) and his rebellion. So all things evil orginated with Satan. So when we see somthing evil or sinful we say it is of Satan or the devil meaning it is sinful or against God. Anything that is against God is sin(evil) and must be Repented for. In the case of this false doctrine we are talking it is against Gods teaching so we call it evil or of the devil.
Firstable I do sorry if i'm questioned it
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. it just Jesus (pbuh) has said in the Gospel that Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. .Secondly, I little bit confius with your argument below :We believe God created the world perfect there was no sin,evil excreta. As God is not capable of evil.All sin, evil was brought to man through Satan(Devil) and his rebellion. So all things evil orginated with Satan.Meanwhile in Isaiah says like this :Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version):I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. I do hope there is an explanation on what you has said above
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.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Christina

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God created Satan who is evil so this is the meaning of create evilI should have said God can not Do (preform evil deeds)we are also told we are not to associate with evil (ungodly men)
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(kriss)
God created Satan who is evil so this is the meaning of create evil
My response :1st. Sorry Kriss, but i think it is not what has been note or written in the Bible, the Bible said God Create evil not satan.2nd. If you saying it was Satan who ...., I think the verse wouldn't be match to the verse talking too, why ? It because the verse that I gave you were talking about adjective word not an object(noun) word. Satan was one of the object(noun) word. So what you has been thinking by given that answered, i think it was out of the context.3rd. Supposed what you has said was true, I think it will make another question which will cantra to others. As you said before, that God create all good, and we know that God Create angel before human, and all of them was good until one of the angel has fallen, then the angel became Satan(call with that word).So, if your meaning was on satan. The meaning of the verse would be like this, God create Satan or God was the one who make the angel was fallen. That if the meaning was using on what you has said. That would be more not make sense.
I should have said God can not Do (preform evil deeds)
1st. Well if the meaning was on Satan, I think what you has said would be countarary with your above statement
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.2nd. I would like to ask you what kind of evil deeds are ?
we are also told we are not, to associate with evil (ungodly men)
I do personally agree what you has said above, but could you show me which verse that support what you has said ?Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Wakka

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God created Satan. And Satan created all of the evil in this world. And after he created evil, he persuaded Eve to sin.There are Satan's minions in this world that we call demons. Every time a person commits sin. They open up a door for demons to come inside of them. And it is our job, as Christians, to spread the gospel and make people realize their sins. Then Jesus Christ cleans the person of all sin and demons. Jesus is the key to getting into heaven.Do you see why we view him as God's son, instead of a man or prophet. He's more than that.
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(Wakka)
God created Satan. And Satan created all of the evil in this world. And after he created evil, he persuaded Eve to sin.
1st. But the bible said, God created evil not satan, i'll quote what the bible says :Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version):I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. It was God who has create godness and evilness, and God was indeed the one who doing the cretions of those behaviour. That's clearly what it says on Isaiah
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.2nd. If you have the verse that paraphrase with your explaination above, could you showed to me wakka ?
There are Satan's minions in this world that we call demons. Every time a person commits sin. They open up a door for demons to come inside of them. And it is our job, as Christians, to spread the gospel and make people realize their sins. Then Jesus Christ cleans the person of all sin and demons. Jesus is the key to getting into heaven.
Well I think it's better if you give the definition in earch word that related with evil/devil/satan etc.
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Do you see why we view him as God's son, instead of a man or prophet. He's more than that.
Yes wakka I do
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, but I don't know why Jesus(pbuh) often call him self as a son of man, and event not once mention he(pbuh) was God.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Christina

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The absense of good is also called evil Like if you have a dougnut the hole in the middle is nothing the absense of God(good) is can also be called evil.I believe the scripture bears out there were three world ages. The first earth age is when Satan and his angels rebelled and then god destroyed that ageAnd started this world age it is this age the bible tells the story of we are all here to choose whether we will choose to follow God or Satan it is the reason for this age. There is war in heaven between Good (God ) and evil(Satan) that war will be brought to earth in the end. All Evil was brought about by Satan rebellion. It may help to read this that Denver wrotehttp://www.christianityboard.com/earth-age...-study-t79.htmlI know it must get frustrating to you sometimes to see only Jews and christians mentioned in so many of our posts. but Arabs,muslems are just as much players in this as we are. I truly respect your patience for struggling to understand even the fact you have read the bible makes you a very speacial man to Godmay he bring you and your family many blessings Ricky
 

Christina

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Evil vs Good and God can be a complicted subject we often use the words loosely a slang term that I forget with engish being your second language you are very precise in your intepetations. We might look at a dark cloud and say its looks evil. Now that cloud is neither good or evil but it could drop disruptive rain/lighting ect. So we looslely apply the term evil.We understand all evil comes from Satans rebellion was continued into this age in the garden with Eve,and then Adamto Cain and spread thought the world. it might be compared to a modern day virus or a maligancey. In its spread. When translating back to hebrew you must take caution in which meanings you choose to use. In Isa 45:7 you have several meanings to choose from so you have to use your understanding based on other scriptures and overall understanding to choose proper context of some words. Here evil can mean,calmity (or judgement) Malignancy, sin, or several other things. We all know God is good incabable doing evil in the sense of Satan who is evil. So I loosely used the tem Satan (to represent all of these)here is an article that make it clearer. One of the most common reasons skeptics reject the existence of God is due to the presence of evil in this universe. They reason that a perfect God would not create a universe in which evil exists. Skeptics claim that since God created everything that God must have also created evil. They even cite Bible verses, such as:I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV) Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV) Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38) However, evil is not really a created thing. You can't see, touch, feel, smell or hear evil. It is not one of the fundamental forces of physics, nor does it consist of matter, energy, or the spatial dimensions of the universe. Still, skeptics like to claim that God created evil and cite the Bible to "prove" their point. The Bible is quite clear that God is not the author of evil and insists that He is incapable of doing so. In our use of modern English, which doesn't necessarily mean the same things today as when it was translated over 400 years ago. What do the modern translations say?The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these. (Isaiah 45:7, NASB) I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, NIV) Isaiah 45:7 contrasts opposites. Darkness is the opposite of light. However, evil is not the opposite of peace. The Hebrew word translated "peace" is shâlôm, which has many meanings, mostly related to the well being of individuals. Râ‛âh, the Hebrew word translated "evil" in the KJV often refers to adversity or calamity. There are two forms of the word. Strong's H7451a most often refers to moral evil, whereas Strong's H7451b (the form used here) most often refers to calamity or distress. Obviously, "calamity" is a better antonym of "peace" than "evil."Amos 3:6 If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble? If a calamity occurs in a city has not the LORD done it? (Amos 3:6, NASB) When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it? (Amos 3:6, NIV) Likewise, Amos 3:6 uses the same word, râ‛âh, referring to calamity or disaster. the context (a disaster happening to a city) does not refer to moral evil.Lamentations 3:38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come? (Lamentations 3:38, NIV) Is it not from the mouth of the Most High That both good and ill go forth? (Lamentations 3:38, NASB) The King James Version of Lamentations 3:38 seems to suggest that God speaks both good and evil. However, if one reads the verse in context, the preceding verses indicate that God does not do or approve of evil.The verse following indicates that people should not complain in view of their sins. What the verse really is saying that God decrees times of good things and times of judgment. Lamentations was written by Jeremiah during a time of judgment, when Judah had gone off into exile. Jeremiah was chosen by God to be the prophet to tell Judah to reform or be judged. The people did not believe Jeremiah, and, therefore, fell under God's judgment. In Lamentations 3:38, the word translated "good" is ṭôb (Strong's H2896). The word usually refers to good things as opposed to bad things. Again, râ‛âh does not refer to moral evil, but calamities, in this verse. Likewise, the Bible commentaries indicate that the verse refers to God's judgment based upon people's sin.Conclusion God is not the author of evil. However, God does reward and punish on the basis of good and bad behavior. Therefore, God does bring judgment and calamity (either directly or through human authorities) on those who rebel. God will ultimately judge all people, since rebels will not be allowed in the new, perfect creation.
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(kriss)
The absense of good is also called evil Like if you have a dougnut the hole in the middle is nothing the absense of God(good) is can also be called evil.I believe the scripture bears out there were three world ages. The first earth age is when Satan and his angels rebelled and then god destroyed that ageAnd started this world age it is this age the bible tells the story of we are all here to choose whether we will choose to follow God or Satan it is the reason for this age. There is war in heaven between Good (God ) and evil(Satan) that war will be brought to earth in the end. All Evil was brought about by Satan rebellion. It may help to read this that Denver wrotehttp://www.christianityboard.com/earth-age...-study-t79.html
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I don't know wheter it is a relevant or not with what we already discuss, i try to read this over and over but seems like it doesn't have a relation between what we discuss before, with your link at Denver article.
I know it must get frustrating to you sometimes to see only Jews and christians mentioned in so many of our posts.
Praise to God I'm not kriss. Event I also quoting Hebrew word and what is in the Bible in every my question
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but Arabs,muslems are just as much players in this as we are. I truly respect your patience for struggling to understand even the fact you have read the bible makes you a very speacial man to Godmay he bring you and your family many blessings Ricky
Thanks to your pray kriss, may God also do the same thing as you wish
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.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Christina

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The only revalance of the study was to Satan and when his rebellion started it was just background information on Satan.
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(kriss)
The only revalance of the study was to Satan and when his rebellion started it was just background information on Satan.
Owh... I see now, thanks
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.By the way, your latest explaination was more better, rather than your first one below
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. And i do more clearly on how you saw it, but if you don't mine, i would try to urgue it, is it ok with you Kriss
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?(Kriss)
God created Satan who is evil so this is the meaning of create evil. I should have said God can not Do (preform evil deeds)we are also told we are not to associate with evil (ungodly men).
Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.Ok kriss, thank you
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(CMIIW).(kriss)
Evil vs Good and God can be a complicted subject we often use the words loosely a slang term that I forget with engish being your second language you are very precise in your intepetations. We might look at a dark cloud and say its looks evil. Now that cloud is neither good or evil but it could drop disruptive rain/lighting ect. So we looslely apply the term evil.We understand all evil comes from Satans rebellion was continued into this age in the garden with Eve,and then Adamto Cain and spread thought the world. it might be compared to a modern day virus or a maligancey. In its spread. When translating back to hebrew you must take caution in which meanings you choose to use. In Isa 45:7 you have several meanings to choose from so you have to use your understanding based on other scriptures and overall understanding to choose proper context of some words. Here evil can mean,calmity (or judgement) Malignancy, sin, or several other things. We all know God is good incabable doing evil in the sense of Satan who is evil.
Well me personally considered that God created evil behaviour, but He did not to ordered human being to follow the evil one.Satan was the one of the creature that disobey what God has told, that is not to do evil. Because what they had choose was to do or organized evil, than Satan was identically with evil it self.It is not make sense that evil behaviour just come by it self, without any created that behaviour. And I think the satan it self don't know what evil is, if God not created it before. Then what Isa 45:7 says for me still resonable.Another think that it is reasonable for God make Evil behaviour is by following what God has told in the previous sentences before I make peace ... of Isa 45:7, that is I form the light ....Isa 45:7. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.In here, i conclude that, if we follow the light of God then you will have peace, but if you follow darkside, then you will have evil.And God indeed created both of that two behaviour, but I also agree that in this verse God wasn't do an Evil thing nor ordered human to do evil. And from here actually we also can conclude that God provide thus two were so human kind can choose base on they free will, and evil as a test for us human being, wheter we will be always on as His side or not(demon/satan).Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Christina

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I do think free will is the key here God did not create Satans actions, but gave him free will to choose what he would do, Just as God didnt create murder but gave Cain free will to decide whether he would commit it. So in a way you might say free will has a light side(Good/God) and a dark side(evil/Satan) You are free to choose which you follow. That is why God lays out Laws to be followed so that we stay in the light.
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(kriss)
I do think free will is the key here God did not create Satans actions, but gave him free will to choose what he would do, Just as God didnt create murder but gave Cain free will to decide whether he would commit it. So in a way you might say free will has a light side(Good/God) and a dark side(evil/Satan) You are free to choose which you follow. That is why God lays out Laws to be followed so that we stay in the light.
Yes Kriss, that's why as i'm saying, that this verse were indeed told us that God is the one who made good and evil behaviour, meanwhile his creature was the one who choose on it. So event God created both behaviour neither good and evil, God ordered human and all his creature in the universe to follow Him by obey and following His Law and Order.Satan is one of the example who follow the evil one, meanwhile Angel actually the one who follow the good one, meanwhile human was the one which God still give time to human to choose until his death wheter choosing the good one or the evil one
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.The example of this verse actually we can see in our environtment :Example : In school our teacher teach us which one is the good one or the true one, and which one to be the bad one or the evil one. Eventhough the teacher give us thus two knowledge, I'm sure the good teacher will suggest and order the student to follow the right, the good, and the truly one rather on the opposite.Another example :Our parents has provide two kind of drink, the first one is healthy milk and the other is poison. As a good parents(as well as teacher to theire children) of course they will tell to theire children to drink healthy milk and not to drink the poison. And as a smart parents also, of course they will give to theire children the reason of why doing so, and why not doing so to theire children so the children could be save and not die. It's so also with what God has made to us and all his creature. And the verse on Isa 45:7 for me it is reasonable also that God made/created evil behaviour eventhough He did not done an evil thing, it is the same thing like the example that I gave you
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, and again it is impossible that whatever what is in this universe is not God made it or come from God before. And once again, it's impossible for satan knowing it is good or evil if God not created both of that behaviour.And what do you think kriss
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?Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Christina

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Well I been giving this some thought RickyThe world was perfect no sin existed an one person with free will decides to do a bad thing then the next person does a bad thing back to the first person and so on. How would this be the fault of God ? Seems to me we are back to the absece of God that is bad. The persons doing bad are not acting the way God said. They are acting outside of or without God. So it is the free will that left God not Gods act. I think the word evil here could fit "calamity" better in that God does create Judgments on us.or back to Satan(sin, death)
 

Jordan

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First post in a while.Kriss, I...you are so right. God is holy, just, pure, righteous, etc... as God can not be wicked, unjust, ungodly, unrighteousness...In short God can not do evil. He never intended Satan/Lucifer to be evil...but Lucifer did evil on his own. He had free will...he rebelled against Father, because of his pride.Free Will... Either Lucifer or Yahshua (Jesus/God)Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
kriss]Well I been giving this some thought RickyThe world was perfect no sin existed an one person with free will decides to do a bad thing then the next person does a bad thing back to the first person and so on.[/quote] Sorry kriss i don said:
What i'm saying is' date=' that God was the creature of the universe with what inside of it' date=' including good behaviour nor evil behaviour. But, eventhough God made an evil behaviour that doesn't mean God done wrong, how come i can said that ? That's proven that God was indeed the creator of all the universe with what inside it. And also by doing so, it shows how God wisdom to human being, that He give us what behaviour that we should do and which behaviour that we not do by his Word, Law and Order.Does Satan who the one [b'']create at the first time[/b] an evil behaviour ? If that so, you will diffucult to answer the question, if satan has theire own free will on what they do, how does the satan knows this one is good and this is evil ? if God at the first in His creation doesn't create good and evil ? What freewill that satan choose ?
kriss]Seems to me we are back to the absece of God that is bad. The persons doing bad are not acting the way God said. They are acting outside of or without God. So it is the free will that left God not Gods act.[/QUOTE]I said:
Well, i do respect on what you have hold on, but i think it's still fit if the meaning of it was like the way it should in the meaning of the word evil it self.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Faithful

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:angel9:Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)7.I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.Genesis 1:3-5 (King James Version)3.And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4.And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5.And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first dayGenesis 3:22 (King James Version)22.And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:Genesis 2:4 & 9.4.These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 9.And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve were not heavenly beings but the angels and that which already existed were. And all had the knowledge of good and evil.We see Gid created the tree with knowledge of good and evil which mankind did not have the knowledge of when created. So the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil was created by God and hence he formed man from the soil Genesis 2:7 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. But he was not created evil or with the knowledge, the tree God created of knowledge of good and evil created the evil in man for it was only when they ate from the tree they became with knowledge of good and evil. God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So basically there was always knowledge of both to God and the hosts of heaven.As God is the only true immortal it means knowledge of both always existed as did free will.Hence the angels fell also. I believe that even if something God created good becomes evil by doing it, he still ultimately is the creator of both. For he created everything the only true immortal God. Satan, some angels and man all made the choice to do evil.Hope it is clear. Please feel free to ask. Faithful.
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Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(Faithful)
Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)7.I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.Genesis 1:3-5 (King James Version)3.And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4.And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5.And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first dayGenesis 3:22 (King James Version)22.And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:Genesis 2:4 & 9.4.These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 9.And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve were not heavenly beings but the angels and that which already existed were. And all had the knowledge of good and evil.We see Gid created the tree with knowledge of good and evil which mankind did not have the knowledge of when created. So the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil was created by God and hence he formed man from the soil Genesis 2:7 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. But he was not created evil or with the knowledge, the tree God created of knowledge of good and evil created the evil in man for it was only when they ate from the tree they became with knowledge of good and evil. God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So basically there was always knowledge of both to God and the hosts of heaven.As God is the only true immortal it means knowledge of both always existed as did free will.Hence the angels fell also. I believe that even if something God created good becomes evil by doing it, he still ultimately is the creator of both. For he created everything the only true immortal God. Satan, some angels and man all made the choice to do evil.Hope it is clear. Please feel free to ask. Faithful.
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Yes faithful, i might say that i do agree with you on this one
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. And the point of view from the verse that i discuss with kriss actually describe was on your last paragraph
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.How ever God knows best of the true meaning is.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best