Confession and the confessional

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2ndRateMind

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I posted this here because I'm interested in the ethical and philosophical implications of the confessional.

So, I get where confession is coming from. The first stage of repentance involves recognising where one's faults lie, and beginning to make amends.

But I have my doubts about the confessional. The idea that a priest should judge me at my worst irks me some. It's not as if Catholicism was front and foremost about what we might now consider immoral, such as the possession of inordinate wealth, or activities that contribute to climate change.

Father: 'Have you anything to confess?'
Me: 'I have had lustful thoughts'
Father: 'Three Hail Mary's every day 'til your next confession'

Then there is the idea that confessions should be so private, so that the only people that should know the content should be the penitent and the confessor. How many crimes have been committed, I wonder, because this stricture forbad disclosure to the appropriate authorities?

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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Illuminator

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I posted this here because I'm interested in the ethical and philosophical implications of the confessional.

So, I get where confession is coming from. The first stage of repentance involves recognising where one's faults lie, and beginning to make amends.
Exactly. Sometimes it's impossible to make direct amends, but God loves us so much He accepts our prayers when said in the proper disposition. Absolution and a contrite heart go hand in hand.

But I have my doubts about the confessional. The idea that a priest should judge me at my worst irks me some.
Priests don't judge, they give counsel the same as your pastor helps you out with life's difficulties. We view the confessional as a shower for a dirty soul, not a torture box of guilt and shame.

Father: 'Have you anything to confess?'
Me: 'I have had lustful thoughts'
Father: 'Three Hail Mary's every day 'til your next confession'
That's a Hollywood summary and a calumny.

Then there is the idea that confessions should be so private, so that the only people that should know the content should be the penitent and the confessor. How many crimes have been committed, I wonder, because this stricture forbad disclosure to the appropriate authorities?
How many crimes have been prevented because penitents have recourse to forgiveness and work on cleaning up their lives???
Doctors, counsellors, nurses, lawyers sign legal agreements of confidentiality because breeching it is a crime.

The question before the court was, “Can a priest be forced to divulge what he has learned in the confessional?” The Louisiana Supreme Court said, “No.” This was a victory for religious liberty, Catholic civil rights, and the Catholic League—we filed an amicus brief in this historic case.​
read more here


A list of scripture citations followed by a brief exegesis:
SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION & FORGIVENESS OF SINS - Scripture Catholic
 
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2ndRateMind

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no such thing as climate change.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

And if you hate others having wealth, thats nothing but wealth envy/marxism. Aint nobody got time for either or things.
I don't hate wealth. In fact I think it to be a thoroughly good thing. So good, I think everyone should have some.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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There are none so blind as those who will not see.


I don't hate wealth. In fact I think it to be a thoroughly good thing. So good, I think everyone should have some.

Best wishes, 2RM.

yea, but you think the poor should be given that money from those who actually earned it, by govt force.
 

2ndRateMind

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yea, but you think the poor should be given that money from those who actually earned it, by govt force.

I defy you to indicate where, on this thread, I have advocated redistribution by force, government or otherwise. Seems to me the moral case is an adequate justification on its own. And the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth is an entirely voluntary institution. All it takes is love.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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Adam

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I believe confession is quite dangerous. The Hebrews sacrificed a lamb to repent because the lamb took on their sins. Christians believe Jesus took on our sins. God is just. Someone must be punished for sin. The only way someone can absolve another person's sin is by taking the sin onto themselves. Priests therefore, by absolving the sins of another, are accruing evil onto their own soul, acting in place of God where they have no authority to.

If one confesses a sin - it should be to the person they wronged, and you repent by fixing the mistake and repaying the damages however you can.

Edit: on further reflection - I no longer believe that forgiveness holds any metaphysical danger
 
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Enoch111

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But I have my doubts about the confessional. The idea that a priest should judge me at my worst irks me some.
The Catholic confessional is an abomination before God. Sins must be confessed to God alone, and God and Christ alone have the power to forgive sins. No sinful priest can grant "absolution" to another person.

When James speaks of confessing our "faults" one to another, that again has nothing to do with the confessional. This is between Christians. The Greek words for sins and faults are different, but the modern versions using a corrupted Greek text have deleted "faults" and substituted "sins".
 

Illuminator

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I believe confession is quite dangerous.
That depends on who the confessor is. Trying to live a holy life means taking some kind of moral inventory of ourselves. That goes with prayer, self-honesty and humility to admit how we blew it: in our thoughts, what we have done, and what we say. What are my character defects? If you don't want to be a spiritual infant, I think it's wise to have someone in your life you can confide in, who is there to guide and counsel. Even wiser to have an occasional chat with someone trained in pastoral counseling. They, along with doctors, psychologists, lawyers, nurses, etc., are legally bound to confidentiality. So it's not so dangerous.
The Hebrews sacrificed a lamb to repent because the lamb took on their sins. Christians believe Jesus took on our sins. God is just.
Yes, God is just, but not according to John Calvin. That's a different discussion.
Someone must be punished for sin. The only way someone can absolve another person's sin is by taking the sin onto themselves.
That's a mental illness, it has nothing to do absolution.
Priests therefore, by absolving the sins of another, are accruing evil onto their own soul, acting in place of God where they have no authority to.
Please scroll up to post #5.

A list of scripture citations followed by a brief exegesis:
SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION & FORGIVENESS OF SINS - Scripture Catholic
Evidently, some are afraid to click on that link due to cognitive dissonance.

1670299444042.png

If one confesses a sin - it should be to the person they wronged, and you repent by fixing the mistake and repaying the damages however you can.
Yes, that's called restitution, repenting in action. But that is not the focus of confession. Forgiveness of a loving Father and maybe forgiving yourself for mistakes are just parts of the process. We all make mistakes of some sort at some time because we are all sinners.
 
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Dropship

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In 1990 an IRA bomb went off in my old home city of Leicester (England), but miraculously nobody was hurt, we lived 3 miles away and it rattled our windows and woke up our cat, and we can bet the bombers went down their catholic church to "confess", and the priest said something like "you're forgiven", so they no doubt went home and started making another bomb..

IRA-Bomb_Feb-1990.jpg
 

Jim B

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The Bible says to confess your sins one to one another. James 5:16, "Therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective." The Catholic ritual of confessing to a priest, then having your sin forgiven by him after reciting some prayer of penance, is unScriptural. It is just a way of controlling people.
 
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Jim B

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I believe confession is quite dangerous. The Hebrews sacrificed a lamb to repent because the lamb took on their sins. Christians believe Jesus took on our sins. God is just. Someone must be punished for sin. The only way someone can absolve another person's sin is by taking the sin onto themselves. Priests therefore, by absolving the sins of another, are accruing evil onto their own soul, acting in place of God where they have no authority to.

If one confesses a sin - it should be to the person they wronged, and you repent by fixing the mistake and repaying the damages however you can.
I basically agree.

You wrote "God is just. Someone must be punished for sin." Jesus took the punishment for everyone's sin for all time.
 

thelord's_pearl

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I believe in both: confession to God as the most often that we should do and confession to others too in other times though not to those who will pass judgment on you. it's both scriptural. The "confess to one another so that you may be healed" and the when followers of Christ/God confessed to God for their sins.
 

Illuminator

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In 1990 an IRA bomb went off in my old home city of Leicester (England), but miraculously nobody was hurt, we lived 3 miles away and it rattled our windows and woke up our cat, and we can bet the bombers went down their catholic church to "confess", and the priest said something like "you're forgiven", so they no doubt went home and started making another bomb..

View attachment 27537
Your attempt to discredit the Sacrament of Reconciliation with actions of IRA terrorists is despicable. That's because you are afraid to reply to my posts and links. You have nothing intelligent to say. Suppose a terrorist were to confess bombing or killing, the priest would tell him to turn himself in to the police as a condition of being absolved, otherwise, his "repentance" is just an act.

further reading:

Pope condemns IRA shootings

 

Dropship

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Your attempt to discredit the Sacrament of Reconciliation with actions of IRA terrorists is despicable. That's because you are afraid to reply to my posts and links. You have nothing intelligent to say. Suppose a terrorist were to confess bombing or killing, the priest would tell him to turn himself in to the police as a condition of being absolved, otherwise, his "repentance" is just an act.

1- The IRA terrorists are from the Republic of Ireland which is a catholic country.
2- I always- but always- reply to people's questions.
3- Catholicism has got satan's fingerprints all over it, for example Jesus said "This is how you should pray- 'Our Father in heaven..", but they pray to Jesus's dead human mum instead..:)
 
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Illuminator

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1- The IRA terrorists are from the Republic of Ireland which is a catholic country.
Faulty reasoning. There are plenty of terrorists in the U.K. which is a Protestant country. Does that disprove Protestantism?
2- I always- but always- reply to people's questions.
You are afraid of my links.
3- Catholicism has got satan's fingerprints all over it, for example Jesus said "This is how you should pray- 'Our Father in heaven..", but they pray to Jesus's dead human mum instead..:)
A false dichotomy. So all those in heaven are dead? That's not Christianity. And the Lord's Prayer is recited every day at every Mass around the world. "Prayers to Saints" which has nothing to do with the current discussion, is a derailer not to mention a false dichotomy of your creation, because you refuse to respond to my links. They are not long and easy to understand. You are afraid of them. So you are forced to contaminate the thread with manmade traditions because you have nothing intelligent to say, just stupid insults. Thank God all non-denominationals are not as insulting as you. Or is that one of your traditions?
 
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Dropship

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Faulty reasoning. There are plenty of terrorists in the U.K. which is a Protestant country. Does that disprove Protestantism?

You are afraid of my links.

.Thank God all non-denominationals are not as insulting as you. Or is that one of your traditions?

1- There are no terrorists in England as far as I know unless they're muslims..:)
2- I rarely look at long links because I'd rather hear what the poster has got to say in his own words, briefly and to the point, take that as a compliment..:)
3- This thread is about the catholic confessional, and as i've already pointed out, it's a pointless tradition..:)
 

Adam

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It's a simple matter of logic -

If a sin is committed then who pays the price?
--No one? Then the victim de facto pays the price, as they have been injured without restitution. Does this mean that sin doesn't actually exist and is only a matter of conscience?
--The sinner? This implies that they were not forgiven, so since the topic is forgiveness of sins, we'll rule this out
--Jesus? In which case, as an omnipresent spiritual entity, confession to a priest is unnecessary
--Another third party (eg. a lamb or a goat) who has taken the debt onto themself?

At best it can be argued that a priest is transferring sin from the confessee onto Jesus, which a confessee can also do themself through prayer; and that the apostles were only doing what any Christian could do: informing people about the possibility of absolution through Jesus.

The alternative: that sin is in fact just a matter of conscience, and that hell is nothing more than a tortured mind reflecting on its poorly-lived past life, in which case, all that is really necessary is that a person forgives themselves, and anyone who acts as a shoulder to cry on can act to absolve that guilt.

The worst case scenario: the priest becomes the lamb or goat by absolving through their own authority, and suffers the punishment themself.

Edit: on reflection, I no longer believe the last case scenario is a possibility
 
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