Submission Of The Wife: How Serious A Matter Is It?

Windmillcharge · Jul 17, 2022

Hidden In Him said:
How serious an issue is it with God if a Christian wife doesn't submit to her husband

What is even more serious is the issue of whether the husband sacrificial loves his wife.

If he fails in this, there is no requirement for his wife to submit/obey him.

The contract is that a wife will obey/submit to a husband who loves her as Jesus loved the church, giving up everything for the church.

These two are irresistible bound together you cannot discus one aspect without the other.

Hidden In Him · Jul 17, 2022

ScottA said:
This is not a matter of what a modern Christian man and wife must do...but rather an old standard that can and should still be followed if one desires to serve God as an example of our marriage with Christ the Bridegroom.

Not to do so, is a refusal to serving God.

Now--having said that. If a Christian man and wife, want to come together in the understanding that the man is also to be a bride to the Bridegroom, that the man has no actual lordship over the wife...then in private it is only right to treat each other equally...as...well...sisters. Thus, the role assigned to the man and the wife by God, is not so much for them if they themselves already understand their engagement with Christ, but is rather an example to edify and teach that relationship to babes and seceding generations just coming into the knowledge of what is to be.

Well said there, sister.

I think...

There may be finer points of disagreement in the fine print somewhere, but I think I'll just give you this one.

Hidden In Him · Jul 17, 2022

Windmillcharge said:
What is even more serious is the issue of whether the husband sacrificial loves his wife.

If he fails in this, there is no requirement for his wife to submit/obey him.

The contract is that a wife will obey/submit to a husband who loves her as Jesus loved the church, giving up everything for the church.

These two are irresistible bound together you cannot discus one aspect without the other.

I see many fall back on these kinds of arguments, Windmill, and this is no slight to you personally but I usually read them as a type of deflection. I think both roles are of equal importance myself, because both husbands and wives are called to be reflections of God. In a deeper sense, the wife as a reflection of the Son's obedience to the Father, and the husband is to be a reflection of the Father's loving kindness to the Son, and honoring and raising Him up to great honor after His time of trial is over, being the Subordinate in the relationship.

... and Lord help us that this conversation doesn't degenerate into another debate on the Trinity, LoL.

Lifelong_sinner · Jul 17, 2022

Dropship said:
Did Jesus say so?

paul did.

Pearl · Jul 17, 2022

Lifelong_sinner said:
Women cant be clergy, just saying.

Women ARE clergy. Just saying.

Michiah-Imla · Jul 17, 2022

Pearl said:
Women ARE clergy. Just saying.

And it’s unbiblical.

Just saying…

Lifelong_sinner · Jul 17, 2022

Women cannot be pastors, elders, or deacons. I thought this had been established a couple of thousand years ago….

Pearl · Jul 17, 2022

Dropship said:
No I've never been married, had a few narrow scrapes over the years but managed to talk my way out of it because I could see we weren't suited, and only this week I ditched a woman who I'd been chatting with in a dating site because she started nagging..
I LURV sensible warm-hearted women, and have said before that it's great that their are women clergy around like these Protestant gals.

It's a shame how all women seem to be lumped together - and men too by women. We aren't all nags. We aren't all demanding. We aren't all high maintenance. And not all men are cheats and liars. In a partnership we should support each other and not try to change each other but just accept them for who they are and bring out the best in them. At least that is my experience of marriage but I know that not everybody is so blessed.

Naomanos · Jul 17, 2022

Pearl said:
At least that is my experience of marriage but I know that not everybody is so blessed.

While not married yet, and my first marriage wasn't this way, this second marriage will be as I can see it in our relationship now. We have been together for nearly six years and what you have described above as a blessing is what I see in this relationship.

Philip James · Jul 17, 2022

Windmillcharge said:
If he fails in this, there is no requirement for his wife to submit/obey him.

Hello Windmill,
I agree, the two are indeed woven together,
But a failure on the part of one, does not free the other from their obligations and duties.. For in sickness and in health most assuredly includes mental and spiritual sickness..

Pax et Bonum

Pearl · Jul 17, 2022

Lifelong_sinner said:
Women cannot be pastors, elders, or deacons. I thought this had been established a couple of thousand years ago….

Women can be almost anything they want these days. At one time who had ever heard of a woman doctor or scientist or astronaut?
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
The first evangelist was a Samaritan woman. There were female dacons in biblical times and even a female apostle. Go and read your bible properly.

Pearl · Jul 17, 2022

Lifelong_sinner said:
paul did.

I prefer to take Jesus over Paul who's teachings about the role of women have been vastly misunderstood by men of old but there is no excuse for modern, thinking, men to be still living in the dark ages.

Pearl · Jul 17, 2022

Naomanos said:
While not married yet, and my first marriage wasn't this way, this second marriage will be as I can see it in our relationship now. We have been together for nearly six years and what you have described above as a blessing is what I see in this relationship.

I am so glad for you. To be 80 and still loved and respected is wonderful. I hope will be with the right person in your old age.

Naomanos · Jul 17, 2022

Pearl said:
I hope will be with the right person in your old age.

I fully believe that I will be!

Lifelong_sinner · Jul 17, 2022

Pearl said:
I prefer to take Jesus over Paul who's teachings about the role of women have been vastly misunderstood by men of old but there is no excuse for modern, thinking, men to be still living in the dark ages.

so yet ANOTHER person who says paul was wrong. Is there anyone on this forum who thinks the entire Bible is inerrant??

Pearl · Jul 17, 2022

Lifelong_sinner said:
so yet ANOTHER person who says paul was wrong. Is there anyone on this forum who thinks the entire Bible is inerrant??

Ha

I did not say Paul was wrong and you will see that if you read my post properly and not jump to conclusions.

Dropship · Jul 17, 2022

Michiah-Imla said:
Paul said:
“…the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37)
Paul wrote this commandment of the Lord:
“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I do not allow a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.” (1 Timothy 2:11-12)

If some noisy women in the early churches were treating the place like a coffee morning for chatter and gossip, then of course God would have to tell them through Paul to clam up. He had no beef with sensible women and paid them glowing tributes..

-
Paul said- "I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea..she has been a great help to many people, including me..
Greet Priscilla , my fellow worker in Christ Jesus, she risked her life for me.
Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you..
Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa and Persis, those women who work hard in the Lord.
Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too.
Greet Julia.." (Romans ch 16)

The evangelist Philip had four daughters who were preachers, and the early Christian sect in Phrygia was led by Montanus and two women preachers, Priscilla and Maximilla..

Jim B · Jul 17, 2022

Pearl said:
I prefer to take Jesus over Paul who's teachings about the role of women have been vastly misunderstood by men of old but there is no excuse for modern, thinking, men to be still living in the dark ages.

There are some who don't understand a) that Paul was writing to a first century Mediterranean city, where the mores were vastly different because of the status and education level of women, and b) Paul also wrote that we are not under law but under grace.

Lifelong_sinner · Jul 17, 2022

Pearl said:
Ha I did not say Paul was wrong and you will see that if you read my post properly and not jump to conclusions.

oh no, i didnt jump to conclusions and i read your post correctly. You, and many others on here, think what paul said doesnt matter, yet we know he merely wrote down what the Holy Spirit told him to. There would have been no difference between what Jesus said and the Holy Spirit. If you goto a church with a female pastor, you have neither a pastor nor church.

Naomanos · Jul 17, 2022

Lifelong_sinner said:
oh no, i didnt jump to conclusions and i read your post correctly. You, and many others on here, think what paul said doesnt matter, yet we know he merely wrote down what the Holy Spirit told him to. There would have been no difference between what Jesus said and the Holy Spirit. If you goto a church with a female pastor, you have neither a pastor nor church.

And yet there are women who are far more qualified to pastor a church than many men are. I have sat under a few and would gladly do so once again.

Submission Of The Wife: How Serious A Matter Is It?

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