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Submission Of The Wife: How Serious A Matter Is It?
- Thread starter Hidden In Him
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Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
Let me guess, in addition to females being pastors, you also think its ok for gay people to be elders/pastors??
Since this is a command of both God and Christ, there would be serious consequences for disobedience. The Word of God is quite explicit (1 Peter 3:1-6):
1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
We can all be QUILTY of saying as Satan did " I will not serve". Acts 6:1-3 addresses this issue when they were arguing over serving at tables, as did Jesus Luke 10:40,.
Any choice in life we make whether in a life just dedicated to God's works, serving in our community or being bonded in our family must be with the thought, " whatever I can do to serve others, showing God goodness,let me be willing"
Any choice in life we make whether in a life just dedicated to God's works, serving in our community or being bonded in our family must be with the thought, " whatever I can do to serve others, showing God goodness,let me be willing"
I think men interpret submission in different ways.
Some are very legalistic and controlling whilst others are kind and loving. Which way do you think makes for the happier marriage.
God does not encourage tyranny in husbands. Quite the opposite. See the next verse: Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Husbands are commanded to give honour to their wives (above), and also commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for it.
I see where you are coming from, but this is not a picture of the trinity but an example of love.
We husbands are to love as sacrifically as Jesus loves his church.
Wife's are to obey/submit to their loving husband.
The bias towards wife's obeying totally ignores the depth of the husbands sacrifice and obscures the fact that husband and wife's are equal.
Basically if the husbands responsibility is not being discuss, then the wife's responsibility should not be either.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Far to often a husbands responsibilities have not been stressed, it has always been ' wife's obey your Lord and master".
Just as marital unfaithfulness will end a marr, so an unloving, uncaring, selfish husband does not have an obedient slave.
Look at how deep the husbands love has to be?
When have you loved your wife like that.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Indeed!
Certainly not as often as I should (always) and never perfectly and sometimes shamefully not at all..
But by God's Grace, more and more each day.
Thank you Father,
For the gift of my wife.
All praise and glory are Yours, through Your Son, our Lord, Jesus Christ
Who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit
God! Forever and ever
No prob!
Sounds like a fun day. O.k., I have to stop you right here. The passage does NOT begin at Eph. 5:22. It begins at 5:21...which states, "Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ." Other bible versions will say to "submit" to one another or be "subject" to one another. Doesn't matter. The gist is the same. The point is, that the passage begins at 5:21; not 5:22. If we ignore 5:21, then EVERYTHING between 5:22 and 6:9 is lost in translation.
Eph. 5:21 is the leading point, whereas, from 5:22 to 6:9 is HOW we are to submit, even if the word "submit" wasn't used. In almost every kind of relationship, there is a kind of submission going on. Between teacher/student, merchant/consumer, Captain/Private, Policeman/general public, etc. While the submission isn't exactly the same ALL the time, there's submission between both parties, nonetheless.
Again, you gotta begin the passage with 5:21; not 5:22.
LOL! Believe me, when my late husband was alive, what he *taught* me was that he was selfish, self-absorbed, un-Christian, controlling, arrogant, and absolutely HATED it when I was able to*prove* that he was wrong. If any man believes that his wife should ONLY learn from him shows a kind of arrogance that I don't subscribe to.
It really depends on what being "in charge" means. For some, it means that the husband gets to make ALL the decisions, big or small, REGARDLESS of what his wife wants. That kind of being "in charge", I, and I'm certain MOST women, would want no part of.
On the other hand, if the husband discusses things with his wife...sees his wife as equal partner, whose opinions are just as important as his own, and sees himself as more or less a 'figure-head' of the relationship, and who's first obedience is to God, then yes. I can get on board with that kind of arrangement.
We cannot look at 5:22 as some 'get-out-of-jail-free' card that means a husband can lord himself over his spouse. When we read the bible, we have to apply ALL of it to various situations. I asked you before, "what about the Golden Rule?' Well, I also propose to you, what about the passage that says that we are supposed to put others interests ahead of our own (Phil. 2:3-4)? Do we think that the "others" means others except our spouses? As Paul would say, "Of course not!"
You probably don't know me that well, but I'm Catholic...which means, that I have a Catholic Bible that's chock-full of footnotes, cross-references and commentaries. In the commentary regarding Eph. 5:22, it says that "this passage is the most misunderstood passages that Paul wrote."...and goes on to say how people (yes, women, too) have abused this passage for their own selfish benefit...often using it to beat a woman down into doing whatever her husband may selfishly want.
Anywho...'nuf sed...fer now..
I'm not sure why there seems to be a bias towards the former. Maybe it's because more men are preachers and teachers; maybe it's because it provides a ready excuse for some Christian men to blame their wives for their marital problems...
I think if the subject were taught in a different manner, after a spiritual rather than carnal manner, some might see how the husband's responsibility is actually greater, much like how James said teachers will receive the greater condemnation if they lead improperly. One has to get their fleshly and self-serving desires out of the way or it corrupts the decision-making.
It's why I let my wife do whatever she wishes, quite honestly. She wants to cook, she cooks. She wants to clean, she cleans. If she wants to do neither, I regard her as the ruler over her own mind, and there is likely a reason. Maybe she's tired; maybe she's got things on her mind. But whatever it is, I trust her that she knows her situation better than me, and will make the smarter choice on what she needs to do and when she needs to do it. But she's not self-serving, and has proven that throughout the marriage. I've proven the same to her. I'm not a perfect man, but I have been 100% up front honest with her since day 1, through the good and through the bad, and she knows I'm never trying to subjugate her, or take advantage of her, or do anything behind her back because I see her as somehow inferior and don't need to know. So I think seeing each other as equals is very important, even though I bear the responsibility of leading. I think it's because I see her as a compete equal that I regard the things she does (cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc) as acts of love. Who wants to do anything when they feel they have to, as a non-equal? That's kinda disgusting frankly. But if they are not required to do so unless and when they want to, then they do it out the goodness of their heart and with joy.
I feel sorry for women trapped in abusive marriages. Like I said, married to the wrong man, it makes the Biblical teaching on submission a nightmare instead of a blessing. The one thing I will say, however, is this: There is one thing Christian women need to guard against, and that is questioning the authority of a strong Christian husband in the home, or in public. A good man wants her to be happy, and will make life as easy as he can for her, and will think over decisions that concern her very carefully. But after doing all that, if she still throws things in his face and insists on having things her way, that's a problem. Mild objections, yes. But getting obstinate? No. I have great respect for my wife. She's smart, she's funny, she's constantly being a blessing, and she is no toy. But likewise neither am I. I think if there is genuine respect on both sides, both sides will be very guarded and careful with their words and actions with each other, especially when there is a divisive issue at hand, and it's never just "my way or the highway." They have to have respect for one another, while nevertheless accepting the fact that the husband is running the ship. If it sinks, the responsibility was his.
I wouldn't dismiss a gay elder's words because they're 'gay', ANYMORE than I would dismiss Anne Frank's words, just because she was a child when she wrote her diary...
And really, that's it, in a nutshell. Too many men let that 'power' of believing that a woman had to do anything and everything the husband wanted...which was TOO often rooted in their own selfish motivations.
And those men wonder WHY Feminism took root...
You keep setting aside my response in Post #8.
Bahahaha! Well at least you learned, Lol.
No, the Biblical teaching was not that he should be the only one teaching his wife, just that he should be the one teaching her in the home, and that that is where she should hope to learn as much as she could rather than waiting for a service and asking everyone else. As a representative of Christ Jesus, the husband was supposed to be able to teach her, just as He Himself was Teacher to the church.
I wouldn't either. There are so many things my wife and I would just laugh at the notion of. We'd find it funny, LoL. Our communication is off the charts - we even fuss and fight to settle minor grievances continually, but in a playful and humorous way, which is incredibly funny in and of itself most of the time - but we respect one another's minds. I ask her opinion on things with a certain amount of regularity - not because she will make the final decision but because I want her take on things before I do. To be married to some bonehead who thinks he's the only one with a brain in the relationship would just be intolerable to me, and Christian or no, with my temper he would have found out even before we were married that he can stuff it if he thinks that's the way it's ever gonna work. I'd whittle him down to a toothpick mentally and emotionally and then see if he still wants to play, Lol. In other words, there HAS to be respect. If there isn't, stronger personalities will make sure there is, whether you are ready for it or not.
Thanks for sharing. That sounds like a decent commentary.
Anywho...'nuf sed...fer now..
I hear ya. I told myself I'm supposed to be doing work outside instead of clicking away at a keyboard... yet again, Lol.
God bless,
- H
Hmm...didn't think I was doing that...You keep setting aside my response in Post #8.
Nope, nope...nope. My late husband and I were "unequally yoked" in Christian matters. When we got together, he was agnostic...or, so he claimed. His "teachings" in the home weren't "teachings" at all. I'm sorry Hidden, but if my intellect in some areas--including religious matters-- is superior to my husband's, I'm not about to "put it under a bushel" simply because of my marital status and/or gender.
I can learn from anyone. The male clerk at the 7-11...my own adult daughters...even someone like Putin can 'teach' me, what NOT to do, and how NOT to think.
But if my late husband tried to "teach" me that I should hate ALL Iranians...am I supposed to "learn" from him?
Unfortunately, too many men believe that, though. And yes, even some CHRISTIAN men believe this.
I hear ya...I'm guilty of the same behavior...Your Honor...
So, I throw myself on the mercy of the court...Till next time,
Mink
Dropship
Well-Known Member
Some of the most unruly and disturbed kids at junior school were the ones whose parents both worked, and the poor kids hated going home to a cold empty house..
See, then how it works is you present a counter-exegesis to mine showing why it was wrong. You're just rolling passed it like it wasn't there.
I kinda hate to state the obvious here, and I'm assuming you likely don't need any reminders at this point, but if the above is true then don't you think you made a colossal mistake from the outset; one in direct conflict with Paul's teaching? How can one marry an unbeliever and not expect it to undermine the entire teaching? You can't marry an agnostic and expect him to manifest the Spirit of God to you, or reflect Lord Jesus Christ to you in marriage, can you?
Maybe so, but now you can't go letting the sinners become the representatives of what Christianity is. You have to focus on the saints or your whole perception and presentation of the faith and its doctrines become kinda skewed.
I hear ya...I'm guilty of the same behavior...Your Honor...
No mercy! I sentence you to give me responses in perpetuity, so help me God.
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