Occupy Wall Street

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jshiii

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OK!! Hope this topic doesn't get out of control..lol, but it holds my interest deeply among other far left liberal actions.


You take away Capitalism there is no need for religion according to Marxism. I say that if you support "Occupy Wall Street" you just may be anti-religion, anti-christian?

“The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion.” “Religion is the sign of the oppressed creature, the feeling of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless circumstances.”– Karl Marx

From my research so far on Marxism, is that it's anti-christian. I'm still learning and trying to make sense of it all as this is new territory for me. However, it is starting to impinge/interfer/make uneasy the spirit (Christ) who is living with in me. I have a few friends that support this movement on Wall Street and I disagree. I think this could be the start of a Marxist Revolution. From what I have been trying to understand thus far about Marxism I do not like....especially the fact that Karl Marx states that religion is just a crutch for the poor folk...as I have quoted above, and if we have a Marxist society there would be no need for religion. Any Christians here experienced with knowledge about Marxism and it's possible relation to Occupy Wall Street? All help is appreciated. God Bless.
 

biggandyy

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veteran

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I've been meaning to look further into this movement and their demands. Apparently, this is a global movement, Wall Street not being the sole target of the Occupy movement. That does not suggest a 'grass roots' movement, but a concerted developed strategy by the few, like how Marxists created much of the anti-Vietnam war rallies in the U.S. on American campuses. (My comments in parenthisis).

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This from Times: Newsfeed:

"But while "Occupy Wall Street" has become more organized, its demands haven't coalesced into a coherent message. The only thing its various constituent groups appear to have in common is a deep-seated anger at inequality in this country. For them Wall Street symbolizes that unfairness, but the groups have other concerns as well. Many want to redistribute wealth; others want to enlarge government social programs. Some are protesting against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Daniel Levine, a journalism student from upstate New York, said he was taking a stand against the controversial method of natural gas extraction known as hydrofracking in his hometown – but also noted that the practice can bring jobs to economically disadvantaged regions."[/left]
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(Ideas of redistributing wealth and and enlarging government social programs are Marxist-Socialist principles. Levine's remarks against natural gas extraction methods also falls into the category of environmental Socialism.)

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This from Occupywallstreet.org:

"LIST OF PROPOSED "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS

1. CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT. --- Wiki entry summary: The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms. Here's detail on repeal in 1999 and how it happened: "

(That might have helped, but not the real cause. U.S. removal from a gold standard in the 1970's allowed the banking elites and Federal Reserve to create money out of thin air, not backed by silver or gold. That's what really brought in defecit spending, creating dollars by 'fiat', relying on the American taxpayers to foot the bill. So whether Wall Street heads sit on bank boards or not, it's the free creation of dollars by a bookkeeping entry at the commericial bank level that will still keep the fiat money creation going, which devalues the buying power of the U.S. dollar. The Federal Reserve ensures this keeps going on too.)



"2. USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list."

(The documentary Inside Job is a good exposing of what caused the financial crisis. No doubt about that. But the crisis would not have been possible if the Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and others like Barney Frank hadn't supported the fabricated instrument of speculation based on fake mortgage loan value which the bankers treated as investment capital. What the financial community did was actually create something they treated as real money when it did not exist in reality. I guess they thought no big deal, since the Federal Reserve has been doing the same since removing the U.S. dollar off the gold standard in the early 1970's.

That once again, gets back to what the Federal Reserve system has created in the U.S. since its inception in 1913, starting with 'fractional reserves' of percentages of silver and gold backing the dollar, and then in the early 1970's with that gold backing being totally removed, the U.S. dollar note name of 'Silver Certificate' redeemable in silver changed to a 'Federal Reserve Note' not redeemable in silver.

The gold standard limited the money supply from being purposefully dilluted with fake dollars. Inflation of the dollar is caused by dillution of the money supply, i.e., printing more dollars in circulation, driving the buying power of the dollars in circulation downwards. Alan Greenspan originally knew this and supported the gold standard prior to his becoming elected Chairman of the Board of the Federal Reserve. See: http://www.constitut...enspan_gold.htm )



"3. CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media. This legislation should also RE-ESTABLISH THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES IN THE U.S. SO THAT POLITICAL CANDIDATES ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME FOR FREE AT REASONABLE INTERVALS IN DAILY PROGRAMMING DURING CAMPAIGN SEASON. The same should extend to other media."

(Not a bad idea. That means the amount of lobbying by special interest groups should have limitations also, not just upon corporations. Should be same across the board for everyone, including supporters in the media, which is a big business too.

And by the way, Leftists often refer to the U.S. with words like Democracy when the U.S. is actually a Constitutional Republic per the U.S. Constitutional founders. Follow the U.S. Constitution, and a lot of these problems today would go away. But it's quite obvious, that many politicians on both sides have no real intentions of following our U.S. Constitution, and that's the real problem today.)



"4. CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. No more GE paying zero or negative taxes. Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation so the rich pay their fair share. (If we have a really had a good negotiating position and have the place surrounded, we could actually dial up taxes on millionaires, billionaires and corporations even higher...back to what they once were in the 50's and 60's."

(Most of the upper class wealthy do pay taxes. It's the smaller percentage of wealthy above them that create tax-exempt foundations with control of its officers to use that money to their benefit. And some of them have been caught using that tax-exempt foundation money for subversive activities - per Rene Wormser, counsel to the Reese Committee investigating tax-exempt foundations in the 1950s'.

As for hiding funds off-shore, only repeal of free trade acts like GATT and NAFTA will turn that around, since those acts opened up opportunity for American corporations to setup shop in foreign countries under less U.S. control. So that's a state deparment and congressional created problem which corporations were allowed to take advantage of.)


"5. CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. This agency needs a large staff and needs to be well-funded. It's currently has a joke of a budget and is run by Wall St. insiders who often leave for high ticket cushy jobs with the corporations they were just regulating. Hmmm."

(Revamp should mean LESS structure, not a bigger structure so its original purpose for existing gets bogged down in useless government paper, which has been one of its problems. Congress is still responsible for this agency not doing its job by rooting out those in it who supported the fake financial mortgage credit instrument to continue.)



"6. CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS."

(We don't need more laws governing that. Congress needs to do their job better, like actually read the contents of whats in a bill, instead of shoving it through based on political liaisons and committees. Less government is always the better solution. Want to see your taxes go up a lot more? Push for more government and you'll see it first hand.)


"7. CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don't get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year. While they're at it, Congress should pass specific and effective laws to enforce strict judicial standards of conduct in matters concerning conflicts of interest. So long as judges are culled from the ranks of corporate attorneys the 1% will retain control."

(There's already regulation in place governing a lot of that. It simply needs to be enforced.)



"8. ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS. The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SuUzmqBewg. Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you "can't deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law". Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said "corporations are people." Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It's time to set this straight."

(That's an obvious misunderstanding. A corporation was treated as a person so it could be allowed the same basic rights as any other individual per the U.S. Constitution. A corporation represents a lot of people who have jobs, so when it gets in trouble with breaking the law, who do you take to court, ALL its employees? No, of course not. The corporation is taken to court as an entity. If then corporate members are found guilty of embezzelments, extortion, conspiracy, etc., then they are individually accountable per their actions.

The military often uses 'group punishment' when one individual messes up. Its purpose is to get the group to work together as a cohesive team, and not as separate individuals. Can't have a democratic vote while in the foxhole with the enemy closing on whether to fight or not. With the private corporation, we don't want all its people to lose their jobs by penalizing the whole corporation when only a few may be involved in dirty dealings. Find the ones responsible, and punish them as individuals, not the corporation as a whole.

So in summary, what do I personally see the Occupy Wall Street movement is about? The pushing of Socialism against the idea of free enterprise, and the desire for government to become the owner and operator of corporations, which is how it's practiced in Communist countries like Russia and Red China with state-owned corporations. It's almost as if the financial crisis was created in order for this very idea to get pushed by the people, tricking them into pushing for more Socialism in the U.S.





 

Buzzfruit

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OK!! Hope this topic doesn't get out of control..lol, but it holds my interest deeply among other far left liberal actions.


You take away Capitalism there is no need for religion according to Marxism. I say that if you support "Occupy Wall Street" you just may be anti-religion, anti-christian?

“The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion.” “Religion is the sign of the oppressed creature, the feeling of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless circumstances.”– Karl Marx

From my research so far on Marxism, is that it's anti-christian. I'm still learning and trying to make sense of it all as this is new territory for me. However, it is starting to impinge/interfer/make uneasy the spirit (Christ) who is living with in me. I have a few friends that support this movement on Wall Street and I disagree. I think this could be the start of a Marxist Revolution. From what I have been trying to understand thus far about Marxism I do not like....especially the fact that Karl Marx states that religion is just a crutch for the poor folk...as I have quoted above, and if we have a Marxist society there would be no need for religion. Any Christians here experienced with knowledge about Marxism and it's possible relation to Occupy Wall Street? All help is appreciated. God Bless.


I see occupy-wall-street as the begging of what may well be the spiritual harvest that the book of Revelation spoke about.


Revelation 7:9-14 (ASV)
[sup]9 [/sup]After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;
[sup]10 [/sup]and they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation unto our God who sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb.
[sup]11 [/sup]And all the angels were standing round about the throne, and aboutthe elders and the four living creatures; and they fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
[sup]12 [/sup]saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
[sup]13 [/sup]And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, These that are arrayed in white robes, who are they, and whence came they?
[sup]14 [/sup]And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they that come of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


I am not saying that we are in the great tribulation but much of what is being planned behind closed doors and being forced upon us as we speak will. So we are not at this point anywhere near Revelation 7:9-14, but I believe the seed is in the soil so-to-speak and has begun to swell. You see as people become more and more disillusion about the various systems (including democracy) that they have put their trust in let them down, they will be ripe for the gospel.

I believe that the powers that be do not and will not like seeing people around the world rising up and protesting there criminal system......they might feel threatened or they might simply be the ones helping to stir up unrest, as a cloak to set up a global government.....don't put it past politicians to co-op a movement for the own interst. Either way the masses will still not be happy. It will be up to God's people to guide them to the only hope that can ever truly provide them the freedom, and enable them to achieve their true and full God-given potential.......the gospel of the kingdom of God. The question is, are we ready?
 

veteran

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Funny, I see that movement as a subversive Communist-Socialist movement to overthrow America's systems of market capitalism.

How many of you have retirement funds in the stock market? Would you like to see those funds continue to go away, so you don't have a retirement at all? Then keep supporting the Communist-Socialists ideology, and it will be guaranteed, to go away that is.


The powers in this world today plan to form a "one world government" over all nations. Many simply haven't been paying attention. So EVERY political struggle today is going to involve that movement, one way or another. Per God's Word we are already SUPPOSED TO KNOW that this is going to happen.

If one looks at how the finance and governments of western Europe have been taken over by Socialism, and look back at our United States system, you ought to see a difference still existing. Most Americans still don't want Socialism ruling our nation. We've still got our guns too, while those other nations have given their's up. Only with Obama have we seen a big jump towards Socialist ideology of state-ownership of corporations, and bigger push towards socialist healthcare that will kill a lot of the elderly.

Now the "one world government" hosts would prefer... that we the people side with their plan, and support it. And it looks like the Occupy globalist movement going on now in SEVERAL COUNTRIES, is a plan of deception to strike up support for yet another 'change'. And guess what that change will be?
 

Buzzfruit

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Funny, I see that movement as a subversive Communist-Socialist movement to overthrow America's systems of market capitalism.

How many of you have retirement funds in the stock market? Would you like to see those funds continue to go away, so you don't have a retirement at all? Then keep supporting the Communist-Socialists ideology, and it will be guaranteed, to go away that is.


The powers in this world today plan to form a "one world government" over all nations. Many simply haven't been paying attention. So EVERY political struggle today is going to involve that movement, one way or another. Per God's Word we are already SUPPOSED TO KNOW that this is going to happen.

If one looks at how the finance and governments of western Europe have been taken over by Socialism, and look back at our United States system, you ought to see a difference still existing. Most Americans still don't want Socialism ruling our nation. We've still got our guns too, while those other nations have given their's up. Only with Obama have we seen a big jump towards Socialist ideology of state-ownership of corporations, and bigger push towards socialist healthcare that will kill a lot of the elderly.

Now the "one world government" hosts would prefer... that we the people side with their plan, and support it. And it looks like the Occupy globalist movement going on now in SEVERAL COUNTRIES, is a plan of deception to strike up support for yet another 'change'. And guess what that change will be?


It’s already being stolen through inflation by all that money that was printed (started under Bush jr and continued under Obama) out of nothing to bail-out the banks.
 

Buzzfruit

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A lot of Christians in the U.S have been deceived to believe that democracy and the capitalistic system is God's system. But what did God commanded the children of Israel in regards to poor among them?


Leviticus 19:9-10 (ESV)
[sup]9 [/sup]"When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest.
[sup]10 [/sup]And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the Lord your God.


Deuteronomy 24:19-22 (ESV)
[sup]19 [/sup]"When you reap your harvest in your field and forget a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it. It shall be for the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.
[sup]20 [/sup]When you beat your olive trees, you shall not go over them again. It shall be for the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow.
[sup]21 [/sup]When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, you shall not strip it afterward. It shall be for the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow.
[sup]22 [/sup]You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt; therefore I command you to do this.

Leviticus 25:11-13 (ASV)
[sup]11 [/sup]A jubilee shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of the undressed vines.
[sup]12 [/sup]For it is a jubilee; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field.
[sup]13 [/sup]In this year of jubilee ye shall return every man unto his possession.


Leviticus 25:23-28 (KJV)
[sup]23 [/sup]The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.
[sup]24 [/sup]And in all the land of your possession ye shall grant a redemption for the land.
[sup]25 [/sup]If thy brother be waxen poor, and hath sold away some of his possession, and if any of his kin come to redeem it, then shall he redeem that which his brother sold.
[sup]26 [/sup]And if the man have none to redeem it, and himself be able to redeem it;
[sup]27 [/sup]Then let him count the years of the sale thereof, and restore the overplus unto the man to whom he sold it; that he may return unto his possession.
[sup]28 [/sup]But if he be not able to restore it to him, then that which is sold shall remain in the hand of him that hath bought it until the year of jubile: and in the jubile it shall go out, and he shall return unto his possession.


What God commanded the Israelites goes against the capitalistic system to of maximizing profits. Under God's system we are our brothers keeper and we are responsible for each others well being, especially if that person is poor or has fallen on hard times. And since God is King (in a kingdom, the king is owner of everything...including the people and what they have), it is He who owns all the land and property that they live on or use. Just like a human king, God as King over Israel was responsible to His people's well being.....to provide for them and what they need and to make a living. The capitalistic system every man or woman is on his or her own and what he owns is his to do as he wish even at the expense of those who helped him gain his wealth.
 

Prentis

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OK!! Hope this topic doesn't get out of control..lol, but it holds my interest deeply among other far left liberal actions.


You take away Capitalism there is no need for religion according to Marxism. I say that if you support "Occupy Wall Street" you just may be anti-religion, anti-christian?

“The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion.” “Religion is the sign of the oppressed creature, the feeling of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless circumstances.”– Karl Marx

From my research so far on Marxism, is that it's anti-christian. I'm still learning and trying to make sense of it all as this is new territory for me. However, it is starting to impinge/interfer/make uneasy the spirit (Christ) who is living with in me. I have a few friends that support this movement on Wall Street and I disagree. I think this could be the start of a Marxist Revolution. From what I have been trying to understand thus far about Marxism I do not like....especially the fact that Karl Marx states that religion is just a crutch for the poor folk...as I have quoted above, and if we have a Marxist society there would be no need for religion. Any Christians here experienced with knowledge about Marxism and it's possible relation to Occupy Wall Street? All help is appreciated. God Bless.

Whenever we follow any movement of this world, we will end up being part of the world.

The world makes a 'false revolution'. From one system, to another, it reforms, but does not transform.

We are to be agents of transformation, new life, not modification of life. The only true revolution is to bring in the kingdom, which is not of this world, and cannot agree with it. We are to be separate. :)
 

jshiii

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A lot of Christians in the U.S have been deceived to believe that democracy and the capitalistic system is God's system. But what did God commanded the children of Israel in regards to poor among them?


Leviticus 19:9-10 (ESV)
[sup]9 [/sup]"When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest.
[sup]10 [/sup]And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the Lord your God.


Thanks for those scriptures Buzz...very enlightening.

Now when my father-in-law is harvesting his wheat, corn and soybeans, I always notice there looks as if there is a lot left on the ground. I asked him about it going to waste and he said it would be just too expensive and time consuming to try and gather it. With that being said, I have never seen the poor or sojourners out there in the fields gathering any? I guess foodstamps work better.

Ok....yea a little humor above, but still. We Americans are so spoiledddddddddddddddddddddddd.

God Bless You!
 

mcorba

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Buzzfruit -
A lot of Christians in the U.S have been deceived to believe that democracy and the capitalistic system is God's system. But what did God commanded the children of Israel in regards to poor among them?

Yes, agree - dont think that capitalism was ever, or is, anything but the rich looking after themselves - it does NOT embed Christian values in it.

Socialism, despite the paranoia felt about it, does embed SOME Christian values, at least the version that we got in Britain with the labour Govts post world war 2 anyway.
There are very different types of socialism in history and across nations previously.
 

jshiii

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Buzzfruit -
A lot of Christians in the U.S have been deceived to believe that democracy and the capitalistic system is God's system. But what did God commanded the children of Israel in regards to poor among them?

Yes, agree - dont think that capitalism was ever, or is, anything but the rich looking after themselves - it does NOT embed Christian values in it.

Socialism, despite the paranoia felt about it, does embed SOME Christian values, at least the version that we got in Britain with the labour Govts post world war 2 anyway.
There are very different types of socialism in history and across nations previously.


The world is complex. Wouldn't it be nice if the entire world was christian....no problems :D

As it is, I'm ashamed to say it takes regulations by Governments to force people to give money to help the less fortunate. In doing this, Governments try to uphold a good image, but never come close to the image of God. With regulations, there comes a sacrifice of freedom and even worse, ultimately a regulation of religion......this is the coming tribulation that is upon the world and growing.

So, although there is good in Capitalism and Socialism or superficially anyway, neither is of God, but of man. This is the weakness of humans and sin. They are destined to failure without God.
 

HammerStone

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The Occupy Wall Street (OWS) movement has been intriguing to watch, both from a political and spiritual perspective.

Just my two cents, but I think we have to be careful with this movement in a variety of ways. It's being branded as the "Tea Party" of the left, but I'm not quite so sure that sums up the entire movement. Yes there are numerous (and at least some "professional" elements) which are, clearly, of the left. However, I think there is some genuine populist frustration contained therein. I think much of that is wrapped up in the ultimately unclear message of the movement. Thus, you have "legitimate" protesters, and then you have your bag of protesters who protest simply because it gives them something to do while not working for "the man" kinda thing.

Yes it seems to be stirred up by the Communist/Liberal Left element, but I think it's an expression of the frustration that was also expressed with the tea parties.

Nothing must be put above God. Unfortunately our culture does worship at the altar of the American dream, but there are plenty others who worship at various other altars. Recall the Calvin quote - I think it was one statement where he 100% hit the nail on the head. The human heart is indeed an idol factory.

Right now the movement is enjoying tacit public support; many do identify, if quietly, with the protesters at frustrations on Wall Street. However, if this movement lurches left, and I think it inevitably will, it will lose popular support. Just another birth pang in my book.
 

Buzzfruit

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Thanks for those scriptures Buzz...very enlightening.

Now when my father-in-law is harvesting his wheat, corn and soybeans, I always notice there looks as if there is a lot left on the ground. I asked him about it going to waste and he said it would be just too expensive and time consuming to try and gather it. With that being said, I have never seen the poor or sojourners out there in the fields gathering any? I guess foodstamps work better.

Ok....yea a little humor above, but still. We Americans are so spoiledddddddddddddddddddddddd.

God Bless You!



I am thankful to God that I was not born in the U.S. But I also believe that a Christian should be thankful to God for where ever they live or was born.


Buzzfruit -

A lot of Christians in the U.S have been deceived to believe that democracy and the capitalistic system is God's system. But what did God commanded the children of Israel in regards to poor among them?

Yes, agree - dont think that capitalism was ever, or is, anything but the rich looking after themselves - it does NOT embed Christian values in it.

Socialism, despite the paranoia felt about it, does embed SOME Christian values, at least the version that we got in Britain with the labour Govts post world war 2 anyway.

There are very different types of socialism in history and across nations previously.




Yes, every government formed by man does have some good in it. But the main problem is human nature, because not one of those governments have ever fully lived up to its ideal. But even if they did we would still never be able to become whom God made us to become.
The world is complex. Wouldn't it be nice if the entire world was christian....no problems :D

As it is, I'm ashamed to say it takes regulations by Governments to force people to give money to help the less fortunate. In doing this, Governments try to uphold a good image, but never come close to the image of God. With regulations, there comes a sacrifice of freedom and even worse, ultimately a regulation of religion......this is the coming tribulation that is upon the world and growing.

So, although there is good in Capitalism and Socialism or superficially anyway, neither is of God, but of man. This is the weakness of humans and sin. They are destined to failure without God.


You see human beings were made to rule and be in control of their destiny and we can't if we are dependent on another human being........only in God's kingdom can we truly be free to chart our own future. why do you think God's people are crowned kings? Because a king makes his own laws and rules for others......a king answers to no one. So God never intended for a human being to be dependent on another human being for their existence.
 

Perspectives

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Whenever we follow any movement of this world, we will end up being part of the world.

The world makes a 'false revolution'. From one system, to another, it reforms, but does not transform.

We are to be agents of transformation, new life, not modification of life. The only true revolution is to bring in the kingdom, which is not of this world, and cannot agree with it. We are to be separate. :)
Ya, a revolution of revelation! Applied to transformation of the inner man, death, burial and resurrection! God don't do rehab!
 
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veteran

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Such movements are not going to matter one iota to help those in Christ Jesus, because the NWO hosts have their takeover plan so far developed, they know no one is going to stop it now, least of all us Christians. But they are still working hard on Christian brethren that are not sealed by God to give in to their plan for a one world 'beast' government, and even to get them to bow to their false messiah that is soon coming. Our Lord Jesus warned us about all that, and how it would come, so a word to those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

So for those with 'eyes to see, and ears to hear', when we see such movements like this, and not just in one nation like how it is happening, it serves as a sign for what stage we're in per the last days timeframe. This new revolutionary style movement can only bring chaos that the NWO hosts can use to implement their plan for totalitarian takeover. If they are the ones actually instituting it, which I think they are, it is then by design. But for what? By their creating financial collapse 'by design', and its result creating chaos among the deceived peoples, which are the majority, then it's a sign they are already prepared for it and have a planned response also 'by design'. Their NWO spokesmen have publicly touted a global one-world currency for decades which is old news, but it reveals today's financial collapse is 'by design' to bring that. All that's left is to round up people that are anti-NWO that serve as a hindrance to that plan, which at the same time will completely suspend our U.S. Constitutional rights. All's that's needed is for them to create enough chaos to institute martial law to do that.
 

aspen

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What is wrong with protesting the incredibly lopsided distribution of wealth in America and the rest of the world? Since when are Christian supposed to support the 1% of people (actually it is .01%) who are hording all the money? WWJD?
 

Duckybill

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Desiring the wealth of others is covetousness.

Hebrews 13:5-6 (NKJV)
5 Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you." 6 So we may boldly say: "The LORD is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
 

prism

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Those OT quotes by Buzz actually backfire. Example...Leviticus 19:9a
"When you reap the harvest of your land,

"Your" land requires private ownership.