Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

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JunChosen

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[QUOTE="Rich R, post: 1380264, member: 17876"]I just put you on my ignore list. I don't want you having to answer to Jesus for any more baseless accusations against a son of God. It's bad enough already.[/QUOTE]

Can you at least give me the courtesy to give comment on your last post to me?

My aim was really to give you the correct Gospel. However if you want to ignore my comments that's fine with me. This is the kind of reception I get from those who thinks they know the word of God. This is the same thing my Lord Jesus received when He walked this planet.

A child of God is able to teach but also must be able to be taught.

My wish is for God to give you wisdom.

To God Be The Glory
 
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Heart2Soul

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The gift is holy spirit and it comes with nine different manifestations. Very simple and yet profound if we only let of preconceived ideas and believe the simplicity of God's word.
Spot on brother....early in my 20's I prayed and asked God for the gift of healing. I wanted so bad to be able to heal people....probably why I ended up in the medical field (haha) as an RN.
I somewhat remember asking this a few times...(I was growing in the wisdom and knowledge of His Truth very rapidly at that time...but still had much to learn)...
And after about the 3rd or 4th time praying and asking for the gift of healing God spoke to me and said all 9 gifts will manifest through you at the given time. The Holy Spirit is the one who brings the anointing and power of a gift and manifests it through His chosen vessels (chosen for that moment) to minister to the needs of others. It's not your power to use at will....it is the Holy Spirit through you that gives you that power.

So after that I just prayed daily to be used of Him in some way that would be a blessing and testimony for others and bring God Glory....
In fact when someone would thank me I would stop them and say....oh no...no, no, no...don't thank me....Thank God...He is the one who ministered to you by His Holy Spirit through a willing vessel.
 
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Dropship

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..Why are you not baptized? How long have you been a Christian?

When I was 10 years old I attended a terrible school for 2 years which was pumping false values into us and made me shy depressed and introverted, I used to cry my eyes out in the toilets at break time, so I turned to the bible for comfort and the seeds of Christianity began to grow in me over the years and I've become one of the strongest people I know..:)


I haven't been baptised because I never felt the need, i suppose it's only for newcomers who need it to help them spiritually grow, nothing wrong with that of course, except it shouldn't make them mistakenly drop their guard against satan by thinking "I'm saved, satan can't touch me now"..:)
 
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1stCenturyLady

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When I was 10 years old I attended a terrible school for 2 years which was pumping false values into us and made me shy depressed and introverted, I used to cry my eyes out in the toilets at break time, so I turned to the bible for comfort and the seeds of Christianity began to grow in me over the years and I've become one of the strongest people I know..:)


I haven't been baptised because I never felt the need, i suppose it's only for newcomers who need it to help them spiritually grow, nothing wrong with that of course, except it shouldn't make them mistakenly drop their guard against satan by thinking "I'm saved, satan can't touch me now"..:)

I find that it is more of a ritual, just like partaking of communion, but if you are strong now, then is it so hard to do what God asks of you rather than questioning Him? If you can't do the little things, how can He give you bigger tasks. Don't forget that it is the natural man that questions God and sees foolishness, not the spiritual man.

1 Corinthians 2:9-16.
 

Dropship

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..If you can't do the little things, how can He give you bigger tasks. Don't forget that it is the natural man that questions God and sees foolishness, not the spiritual man..

We have to look at everything in context, for example the Old T says to kill gays and witches etc, and Jesus said "Sell all you have and give to the poor", but of course nobody does that..:)
 

1stCenturyLady

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We have to look at everything in context, for example the Old T says to kill gays and witches etc, and Jesus said "Sell all you have and give to the poor", but of course nobody does that..:)

In the New Covenant we are only to judge the body of Christ to make sure it is without spot or blemish. Now God is the only one to judge the unrighteous, including gays and witches.

Rethink obeying to perform all righteousness. Disobedience opens the door for more human reasoning, like on the gifts He gives us.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Well, I've said over and over everything is a gift from God, so it's not correct to say I don't want to do that.

One of those gifts is holy spirit (the very essence of the new birth) which comes with the ability to operate the nine manifestations of which tongues is one.

The problem with calling tongues a gift instead of a manifestation is that it has led many to believe only certain people have the "gift" of tongues while the vast majority do not. I'm just trying to point out that we all have the gift of holy spirit and that part of that gift is the ability to operate the nine manifestations of which tongues is one. It is part of the power from on high Jesus promised the Apostles.

Paul was glad he spoke in tongues more than everybody else. He must have thought it important. Paul says he wishes everybody spoke in tongues. Why would he write that if it were not available?

There are three accounts in Acts where people who were born again spoke in tongues immediately, so tongues can't be just for those who are mature and deserve an extra boost or whatever. It ought to be a normal part of all Christian's prayer life.

I might also point out that Jesus said we'd do the works he did. He did 7 of the 9 manifestations, missing only tongues and interpretation of tongues. That's simply because they were not available until Pentecost. So if not tongues, all believers ought to be getting word of knowledge, word of wisdom, discerning of spirits, prophecy, faith, healing, and miracles. Hint; speaking in tongues much builds us up spiritually and makes us more adept at the other manifestations. I trust you can see the need for the ability to operate at least those manifestations Jesus did in order to better serve others.

The gift is holy spirit and it comes with nine different manifestations. Very simple and yet profound if we only let of preconceived ideas and believe the simplicity of God's word.

What do you think 1 Corinthians 12:7 is talking about if not manifestations? Do you not see verses 8-10 as enumerating those manifestations?


Well Paul calls tongues both a manifestation and a gift. If you wish to exclude the biblical fact it is called specifically a gift- that is you rproblem before god.

And no not all believers will recieve the gift of tongues- the gifts are given by th espirit as He wills and not as some sect demands all must have.
 
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Rich R

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Well Paul calls tongues both a manifestation and a gift. If you wish to exclude the biblical fact it is called specifically a gift- that is you rproblem before god.

And no not all believers will recieve the gift of tongues- the gifts are given by th espirit as He wills and not as some sect demands all must have.
If you don't mind, let's confine our discussion to the scriptures. Let's leave each other out of the discussion. The fact is I don't know what you wish nor do you know what I wish. I won't talk about your problems and perhaps you could refrain from telling me what my problems are. Not that I don't have problems, but not knowing me very well, you would have no idea what they are.

Having said that, What do you think Paul meant when he said, "I would that ye all spake with tongues"?
 

Ronald Nolette

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If you don't mind, let's confine our discussion to the scriptures. Let's leave each other out of the discussion. The fact is I don't know what you wish nor do you know what I wish. I won't talk about your problems and perhaps you could refrain from telling me what my problems are. Not that I don't have problems, but not knowing me very well, you would have no idea what they are.

Having said that, What do you think Paul meant when he said, "I would that ye all spake with tongues"?


Well if you cannot acknowlege Scriptures calls tongues both a manifestation and a gift- you have som eissue. Can't tell what it is but as it is clear to read, I don't know why you reject calling it a specific gift and not the generic you said when you said everything is a gift from God

BTW I did keep my writing to Scripture. Juyst wondering why you will not call tongues a spoecific gift like helps, administration , hospitality, prophecy, pastors etc. like Paul does is puzzling.
 

Heart2Soul

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Well if you cannot acknowlege Scriptures calls tongues both a manifestation and a gift
You are correct...but to call it both seems to suggest they act apart from each.
No gift can be used until it is manifested by the anointing of the Holy Spirit who has chosen a vessel to speak through.
The manifestation is the gift in action. We cannot manifest the gift at will when we want to....without the Holy Spirit there is no power to manifest a gift.
Hope that makes sense.
 
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Rich R

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Well if you cannot acknowlege Scriptures calls tongues both a manifestation and a gift- you have som eissue. Can't tell what it is but as it is clear to read, I don't know why you reject calling it a specific gift and not the generic you said when you said everything is a gift from God

BTW I did keep my writing to Scripture. Juyst wondering why you will not call tongues a spoecific gift like helps, administration , hospitality, prophecy, pastors etc. like Paul does is puzzling.
I might remind you once again that I have no interest in discussing myself, let alone defending myself or my beliefs. I am not the subject of the scriptures and I'd really like to confine our discussion to those scriptures.

1 Corinthians 1:1 introduces us to the subject of spiritual matters. I know the KJV says "gifts" but they added that word which they themselves admitted by printing the word "gifts" in italics. The actual Greek word is "pneumatikos"

G4152 πνευματικός pneumatikos (pnev-ma-tiy-kos') adj.
1. spiritual, pertaining to the spirit.
2. that which is motivated and controlled through the spirit.

Verses 4 through 7 lists 4 of these "spiritual matters" Paul wanted to the church to understand. They are:
  1. Gifts (v4)
  2. Administrations (V5)
  3. Operations (V6)
  4. Manifestations (V7)
Are the same as Operations? Are Operations the same as Manifestations? Are Operations the same as gifts?

I think when God says "gifts" He means "gifts." When He says "administrations" He means "administrations." When He says "operations" He means "operations." Finally, when God says "manifestations" He means "manifestations." I dare not call a "gift" what God calls an "administration," an "operation." nor a "manifestation."

God purified every word 7 times. He knows what He wants to say and He is incredibly precise in what He says, how He says it, where He says it, and to whom He says it. Wouldn't you think it incumbent upon us to read the scriptures with the same preciseness? It seems like a no-brainer to me. If we willy-nilly call an operation what God calls an administration, how can we expect to get the exact message?

To me it looks like 1 Corinthians 12:7 is talking about manifestations. I see the next three verses enumerating 9 of those manifestations. How do you understand 1 Corinthians 12:7-10?

Also, maybe you missed it, but I was wondering how you understand Paul when he said, "I would that you all spake with tongues."
 

Rich R

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You are correct...but to call it both seems to suggest they act apart from each.
No gift can be used until it is manifested by the anointing of the Holy Spirit who has chosen a vessel to speak through.
The manifestation is the gift in action. We cannot manifest the gift at will when we want to....without the Holy Spirit there is no power to manifest a gift.
Hope that makes sense.
Does God force us to speak in tongues when He deems it appropriate?
 

Ronald Nolette

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You are correct...but to call it both seems to suggest they act apart from each.
No gift can be used until it is manifested by the anointing of the Holy Spirit who has chosen a vessel to speak through.
The manifestation is the gift in action. We cannot manifest the gift at will when we want to....without the Holy Spirit there is no power to manifest a gift.
Hope that makes sense.

I agree! It is called both because it is a gift that manifesats itself. It is not an either/or but a both/and
 
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Ronald Nolette

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I might remind you once again that I have no interest in discussing myself, let alone defending myself or my beliefs. I am not the subject of the scriptures and I'd really like to confine our discussion to those scriptures.

1 Corinthians 1:1 introduces us to the subject of spiritual matters. I know the KJV says "gifts" but they added that word which they themselves admitted by printing the word "gifts" in italics. The actual Greek word is "pneumatikos"

G4152 πνευματικός pneumatikos (pnev-ma-tiy-kos') adj.
1. spiritual, pertaining to the spirit.
2. that which is motivated and controlled through the spirit.

Verses 4 through 7 lists 4 of these "spiritual matters" Paul wanted to the church to understand. They are:
  1. Gifts (v4)
  2. Administrations (V5)
  3. Operations (V6)
  4. Manifestations (V7)
Are the same as Operations? Are Operations the same as Manifestations? Are Operations the same as gifts?

I think when God says "gifts" He means "gifts." When He says "administrations" He means "administrations." When He says "operations" He means "operations." Finally, when God says "manifestations" He means "manifestations." I dare not call a "gift" what God calls an "administration," an "operation." nor a "manifestation."

God purified every word 7 times. He knows what He wants to say and He is incredibly precise in what He says, how He says it, where He says it, and to whom He says it. Wouldn't you think it incumbent upon us to read the scriptures with the same preciseness? It seems like a no-brainer to me. If we willy-nilly call an operation what God calls an administration, how can we expect to get the exact message?

To me it looks like 1 Corinthians 12:7 is talking about manifestations. I see the next three verses enumerating 9 of those manifestations. How do you understand 1 Corinthians 12:7-10?

Also, maybe you missed it, but I was wondering how you understand Paul when he said, "I would that you all spake with tongues."

In 1 cor. 1:1 neither gift nor spirit appear. In 1 cor. 1:7 charisma appears in 3 manuscripts.

You really do not understand the manifestation do you? It means something revealed or visible. and the manifestation of the spirit is shown in the gifts, administrations and operations! It is that smple.

You are creating a tempest in a teapot.

but as you have not answered this question yet, let me ask again; Do you believe all believers must speak in tonmgues?
 

Rich R

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In 1 cor. 1:1 neither gift nor spirit appear. In 1 cor. 1:7 charisma appears in 3 manuscripts.

You really do not understand the manifestation do you? It means something revealed or visible. and the manifestation of the spirit is shown in the gifts, administrations and operations! It is that smple.

You are creating a tempest in a teapot.

but as you have not answered this question yet, let me ask again; Do you believe all believers must speak in tonmgues?
When you are done talking about me, get back to me.
 

Ronald Nolette

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When you are done talking about me, get back to me.

Well you used the word "you" so you are talkingabout me as well.

If you are that thiin skinned then maybe you shouldn't be here.

I mean no harm or ill will, but seriously, get over it.
 
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Rich R

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Well you used the word "you" so you are talkingabout me as well.

If you are that thiin skinned then maybe you shouldn't be here.

I mean no harm or ill will, but seriously, get over it.
I think there are better ways to express one's lack of ill will towards another than to intimate they are thin skinned. Do you like it when someone says you are thin skinned? It kind of puts a damper on any meaningful discussion. Maybe think about that next time you want to express your care for another person. If I were to start out by saying, "Ah...you don't know what you're talking about. You just refuse to see the truth, blah, blah," how likely would it be you'd be open to anything I said after that?

What's to get over? My being God's workmanship (Eph 2:10)? Or that I have the righteousness of God (Rom 3:22)? That I have an incorruptible inheritance reserved for me (1 Pet 1:4)? This and much more occupies my mind more than myself or others. It's a much better way to live as far as I can tell.

God tells Christians to love each other, to esteem others better than themselves. As of yet, I've not seen anything about skin thickness in the scriptures. In fact, I do believe there is something in the scriptures about being especially kind to the weak. If you think I'm weak in the faith, consider what Paul told the Romans,

Rom 14:1 (Berean Study Bible),

- Accept him whose - faith is weak, without - passing judgment on his opinions.​

Is it a requirement to besmirch others to be here? I don't think so. I treat all with the respect they deserve as God's children, whether they share my exact beliefs or not. If they are God's child I love 'em, period, end of story. I encourage them by goodness which is exactly how God draws people to Himself (Rom 2:4). It works pretty good in my experience.
 
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Rich R

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Was it inappropriate for the 120 on the Day of Pentecost to speak in tongues? Didn't it cause some to mock them?
120 people in the upper room is a bit dubious. It was the hour of prayer, so wouldn't it make more sense that they were in the temple, where there was room for a huge crowd, about 3,000 at least? That's how people from all over the known world have heard them. Only the temple had the room necessary to make the story plausible. Few, if any, serioous scholars would suggest all the events of Pentecost took place in the upper room. But that's not exactly what you asked me. I just threw it in there for no charge. :) (I hope you appreciate my humor)

Luke 24:52-53,

52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.​

Yes, some did mock them, but Peter had a ready answer. Basically, he said it it was their problem, not the Apostles. If appropriateness in the minds of unbelievers were the standard, where would we be today? Would we give in to apostasy because it was considered more appropriate behavior by the nonbelievers of society?
 
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1stCenturyLady

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120 people in the upper room is a bit dubious. It was the hour of prayer, so wouldn't it make more sense that they were in the temple, where there was room for a huge crowd, about 3,000 at least? That's how people from all over the known world have heard them. Only the temple had the room necessary to make the story plausible. Few, if any, serioous scholars would suggest all the events of Pentecost took place in the upper room. But that's not exactly what you asked me. I just threw it in there for no charge. :) (I hope you appreciate my humor)

Yes, some did mock them, but Peter had a ready answer. Basically, he said it it was their problem, not the Apostles. If appropriateness in the minds of unbelievers were the standard, where would we be today? Would we give in to apostasy because it was considered more appropriate behavior by the nonbelievers of society?

We do what God tells us to do. At least, that's what I do. But not all can hear God's voice. I don't know why that is.