Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Scripture for this ??
And what was the Word preserved ???
Was it a translation ???
The Greek ???
Aramaic ???
Hebrew ???
Please be more specific.
Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift
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Scripture for this ??
And what was the Word preserved ???
Was it a translation ???
The Greek ???
Aramaic ???
Hebrew ???
Please be more specific.
Well God gave us standing order via Paul,
1 Cor 14:5,
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
Paul thought tongues was important to one's edification (1 Cor 14:4). He was grateful that he spoke much in tongues, more than anybody else to be precise (1 Cor 14:18).
I take that as permission enough to speak in tongues whenever I think to do so. God never controls. The devil does, but not God, He tells us what is best for us and it's totally up to us to follow through or not.
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Good point. The fact is, we don't have anything actually penned by Moses, Isiah, Paul, or any other of the other's whom God inspired to write. However, as I'm fairly certain you know, there are ways to at least get pretty darn close to what they wrote by studying the various snippets we have of ancient texts in all the languages you mentioned.
Ps 12:6,
The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Ps 12:6,
אִֽמֲר֣וֹת יְהוָה֮ אֲמָר֪וֹת טְהֹ֫ר֥וֹת כֶּ֣סֶף צָ֭רוּף בַּעֲלִ֣יל לָאָ֑רֶץ מְ֝זֻקָּ֗ק שִׁבְעָתָֽיִם׃
Ps 12:6,
(11:7) τὰ λόγια κυρίου λόγια ἁγνά ἀργύριον πεπυρωμένον δοκίμιον τῇ γῇ κεκαθαρισμένον ἑπταπλασίως
I don't care what language you want to look at, 1 Cor 12:7 is talking about manifestations, not gifts. God knows the difference between a gift and a manifestation, and He was kind enough to spell it out for us. Had He intended verse 7 to be about gifts, He certainly had the vocabulary to do so. It's up to us to find out why He used "manifestation" and not "gift." We don't have to. We can just stick with tradition, but that's not ideal. Indeed it's downright awful.
Mark 7:13,
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Personally, I'm loathe to do anything that would make the word of God of no effect so I willingly and gladly abandon tradition in favor of His word. It may be traditional to call tongues a gift, but for over 2,000 years now God has been calling it a manifestation.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Not sure you are right on this...
I lived in this typical house in Gilo Israel - designed for animals underneath and big residential top floor.
Plenty of room for 120 in the huge lounge.
The noise of the 'commotion' would travel for some distance and plenty of room for the thousands around the adjacent land.
The age old question. Romans chapter 7 answers that question quite readily. Also, we all see through a dark glass at this time. None of us know it all. We all know in part, but only when Jesus comes back in glory will we finally know ourselves as God knows us. This is a big part of the reason we ought not condemn each other. God knows us as being as righteous as Himself (Rom 3:21-22), as His own workmanship (Eph 2:10), as the prized trophy in His trophy case (Eph 3:10). We ought to treat each other with that always first and foremost in mind.
Your hearing God's voice is a perfect example of the manifestation of word of knowledge (1 Cor 12:8). And when you are inspired to act on that knowledge, you are operating the manifestation of word of wisdom (1 Cor 12:8). So you see, you do operate at least those 2 manifestations as well as doing 2 of the works Jesus promised we'd all do (John 14:12). I thank God for your life and stand on His most magnificent word!
Did you consider that being the hour of prayer, they were in the temple? You're absolutely sure they were in the upper room?
Luke 24:52-53,
52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great 
53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.
53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.
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Luke 24:52-53,
52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great
53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.
53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Your quotes regarding the Word of God in some cases refers to the Living Word eternally proceeding from God's mouth - not a translation of scripture.
However I do believe He has watched over the process through which the Canon we have has preserved His intended meaning.
I don't believe however that Truth is revealed by a technical analysis of the words like some think, rather it comes through hearing what the Holy Spirit is saying.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Luke 24:52-53,
52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great
53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.
So they wern't in Jerusalem ???
What did I say that led you to believe I didn't think they were in Jerusalem? I quoted Luke who said in no uncertain terms that they returned to Jerusalem. I agree with Luke. I also agree with Luke that they were continually in the temple. I have no reason to question Luke. After all, he was there!
Well, the scriptures do say they contain everything that pertains to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3). Everything is everything. It's all we need to know to life a life of godliness. Nothing more necessary, at least if we believe what Peter said. I do. In whatever language it's written.
It sounds like you may be thinking of word of knowledge, word of wisdom, or discerning of spirits. Those are of 3 the manifestations of the gift of holy spirit that help the believer minister to others by giving precise information about a particular situation. Is that what you mean?
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
What did I say that led you to believe I didn't think they were in Jerusalem? I quoted Luke who said in no uncertain terms that they returned to Jerusalem. I agree with Luke. I also agree with Luke that they were continually in the temple. I have no reason to question Luke. After all, he was there!
So you feel the Pentecost event was outside Jerusalem but they went back and spent bulk time in the Temple ?
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Not exactly...
I believe that without the Spirit the Scripture is not living and revealing it's meaning.
Further more the term 'Word of God' can be whatever eternally proceeds from His mouth sustaining the universe and life on earth.
It also is the very title of Jesus.
In this sense calling the Scripture the sum total of 'God's Word' falls quite short of reality. The Word of God was speaking way before writing was thought of.
While your picture did show me that the upper room was bigger that I still think the temple complex of some 35 acres would have been the more likely place to hold multi
You totally misunderstand me.
You inspired me to think about this with more attention than I've honestly thought about the subject in the past. I'm going to write a post about where the events in Acts 2 took place. I think I could better clarify what I see in the scriptures than doing it piecemeal. Check it out if you want and then we can have a more meaningful discussion. Again, thanks for making me think!
2Pet 1:3,
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
This says that a knowledge of God is all we for life and godliness. The question becomes, where do we get that knowledge?
Well Jesus said he fully revealed his Father. He was also a perfect image of God. Jesus plainly said if we know him we know God. So how do we know Jesus?
John 5:39,
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Learn the scriptures and you'll learn Jesus and the Father. In other words, "the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue" comes via the weritten word. Nothing more is needed for life and godliness.
I understand the operation of word of knowledge, word of wisdom, discerning of spirits. They are simply 3 of 9 manifestations of the gift of holy spirit first given on Pentecost. Those all give us information of specific events that of course aren't covered in the scriptures. They are for specific times when they help us minister to others. I'm not sure if that's what you mean by, "whatever eternally proceeds from His mouth." I don't know if I'd put it that way, but I could see how someone else might.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Yes this is the point I am making - the Pharisees searched the Scriptures and didn't find Him because the Holy Spirit was not involved in the search.
We also know from Romans 1 that the creation it's self testifies of Him.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
What about Romans 7? Which part? You do know that Romans 7:14-25 is not talking about a Christian, but those under the law. They still have their sin nature; that is why they don't do what their mind (memorized laws) wants them to do. Read from verse 5 to get the context. The law was the law of sin and death. Now Read Romans 8:1-9 out of a KJV or NKJV. Verse 2 show that life in the Spirit frees us from Romans 7:14-25.
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