Here's some data on John 10:33

Peterlag · Aug 3, 2022

Had the translators rendered the Greek text in verse 33 as they did in verse 34 and 35, then it would read, "...you, a man, claim to be a god." In the next two verses, John 10:34 and 35, the exact same word (theos, without the article) is translated as "god" and not "God." In Acts 12:22, Herod is called theos without the article, so the translators translate it "god." The same is true in Acts 28:6, when Paul had been bitten by a viper and the people expected him to die. When he did not die, "...they changed their minds and said he was a god." Since theos has no article, and since it is clear from the context that the reference is not about the true God, theos is translated "a god." It is a general principle that theos without the article should be "a god," or "divine." Since there is no evidence that Jesus was teaching that he was God anywhere in the context, and since the Pharisees would have never believed that this man was somehow Yahweh, it makes no sense that they would be saying that he said he was "God." Now since Jesus was clearly teaching that he was sent by God and was doing God's work. Thus, it makes perfect sense that the Pharisees would say he was claiming to be "a god" or "divine."

doughty · Aug 3, 2022

Is your post making the argument that Jesus was not God?

Behold · Aug 3, 2022

Peterlag said:
Had the translators rendered the Greek text in verse 33 as they did in verse 34 and 35, then it would read, "...you, a man, claim to be a god." "

If you put down the translators translation of your Greek lexicon that is defective, and get a real bible, you'll find that in a real bible : "claim to be GOD", is accurate.

Jesus didn't just claim to be God.
He is in Fact, God manifested from a Virgin's womb.
As a matter of fact, when Baby Jesus's feet first took their first step, He was walking for the first time on the WORLD HE CREATED.

Only the deceived and the hyper foolish try to deny the Deity of Christ.
And God knows their are plenty of them around,

Find God here :

John 1:10
Colossians 1:16

doughty · Aug 3, 2022

Behold said:
If you put down the translators translation of your Greek lexicon that is defective, and get a real bible, you'll find that in a real bible : "claim to be GOD", is accurate.

Jesus didn't just claim to be God.
He is in Fact, God manifested from a Virgin's womb.
As a matter of fact, when Baby Jesus's feet first took their first step, He was walking for the first time on the WORLD HE CREATED.

Only the deceived and the hyper foolish try to deny the Deity of Christ.
And God knows their are plenty of them around,

Find God here :

John 1:10
Colossians 1:16

So you're just showing evidence of how the Bible does say that Jesus is God? Just trying to understand the purpose of your original post.

doughty · Aug 3, 2022

doughty said:
So you're just showing evidence of how the Bible does say that Jesus is God? Just trying to understand the purpose of your original post.

Oh whoops, wrong person. I thought it was the same person responding.

Behold · Aug 3, 2022

doughty said:
So you're just showing evidence of how the Bible does say that Jesus is God? Just trying to understand the purpose of your original post.

Over the years, ive noticed that the Troll Threads are always being fired up.

you will have the :

"why i hate OSAS"

" Jesus is not God"

" God only saves the Predestined Elect"

"You can lose your Salvation, and Jesus can do nothing about it".

So, its always these 4, over and over and over and over the dead horse is kicked to death by the same TROLLS., as that is why they are on a Forum.

I use to contact MODs, on all Forums and say....>"If you will just change the TOS, and disallow any THREAD or DISCUSSION about "OSAS".... "Losing Salvation"..."Jesus is not GOD">.. and " The Predestined Elect"....then you would eliminate 95% of the FIGHTING and the HATRED and the endless useless abuse of the Forum by these TROLLS.

But as ive never had a MOD or a SET of MODS hear me, or care, i just stop contacting them about it.

Enoch111 · Aug 3, 2022

Peterlag said:
Had the translators rendered the Greek text in verse 33 as they did in verse 34 and 35, then it would read, "...you, a man, claim to be a god."

Here's another troll trying to concoct his own theology by denying that Jesus IN FACT claimed to be God in this passage.

JOHN 10: JESUS CLAIMS TO BE GOD
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand...

The Jews rightly said that Jesus claimed to be the one true God. The Jews were not polytheistic, so under no circumstances would they have said "a god". They also understood from Scripture that "the Son of God" was also God. But the Jehovah's Witnesses and other cultists refuse to believe -- JUST LIKE THE UNBELIEVING JEWS -- that Jesus is God. And those who do not believe this will die in their sins.

Now if Jesus is God (which is indeed a fact) then there are already TWO persons in the Godhead. And since Jesus made it clear that the Holy Spirit is God (and can therefore be blasphemed) that makes THREE persons in the Godhead.

Peterlag · Aug 3, 2022

doughty said:
Is your post making the argument that Jesus was not God?

It came up in another Forum and I wanted to see what the folks here would say about it.

stunnedbygrace · Aug 4, 2022

Behold said:
Over the years, ive noticed that the Troll Threads are always being fired up.

you will have the :

"why i hate OSAS"

" Jesus is not God"

" God only saves the Predestined Elect"

"You can lose your Salvation, and Jesus can do nothing about it".

So, its always these 4, over and over and over and over the dead horse is kicked to death by the same TROLLS., as that is why they are on a Forum.

I use to contact MODs, on all Forums and say....>"If you will just change the TOS, and disallow any THREAD or DISCUSSION about "OSAS".... "Losing Salvation"..."Jesus is not GOD">.. and " The Predestined Elect"....then you would eliminate 95% of the FIGHTING and the HATRED and the endless useless abuse of the Forum by these TROLLS.

But as ive never had a MOD or a SET of MODS hear me, or care, i just stop contacting them about it.

I don’t think they should ban all those discussions. I mean, OSAS is correct at its core. If you receive Gods Spirit you will live forever. And hopefully, if God leads men who can give a good answer, but without hatred and rancor, into those threads, they can speak beyond elementary things to build up the trust of us all and be an example in their manner of speech.

OSAS is correct in that if you receive Gods Spirit, you will live forever. BUT, in a great house, there are both vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor. And yet, the only way to be a vessel of honor is through trust. Your own working won’t bring about the child who inherits the blessing. The child of your own working and willing must be sent away. Only the child God has promised receives the inheritance.
So it’s got to be through trust, patience and waiting on God.
And this is why we do all we can to help strengthen and grow each other’s trust (edify), so that none of us will fail to enter Gods rest and cease from our own labors.
This is the spirit and truth of the sabbath rest command. To cease our working to try to bring about the child that receives the inheritance and to trust God to do it.

Peterlag · Aug 4, 2022

Behold said:
Over the years, ive noticed that the Troll Threads are always being fired up.

you will have the :

"why i hate OSAS"

" Jesus is not God"

" God only saves the Predestined Elect"

"You can lose your Salvation, and Jesus can do nothing about it".

So, its always these 4, over and over and over and over the dead horse is kicked to death by the same TROLLS., as that is why they are on a Forum.

I use to contact MODs, on all Forums and say....>"If you will just change the TOS, and disallow any THREAD or DISCUSSION about "OSAS".... "Losing Salvation"..."Jesus is not GOD">.. and " The Predestined Elect"....then you would eliminate 95% of the FIGHTING and the HATRED and the endless useless abuse of the Forum by these TROLLS.

But as ive never had a MOD or a SET of MODS hear me, or care, i just stop contacting them about it.

Is a Troll someone who sees the Scripture different from you and cares to see who would enjoy discussing such a topic? Was Jesus a Troll to the Jewish government who gave him the death penalty? Was William Tyndale strangled and burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English because he was a Troll who wanted to give others a different view point from the Catholics? Asking for a friend.

Peterlag · Aug 4, 2022

Enoch111 said:
Here's another troll trying to concoct his own theology by denying that Jesus IN FACT claimed to be God in this passage.

JOHN 10: JESUS CLAIMS TO BE GOD
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand...

The Jews rightly said that Jesus claimed to be the one true God. The Jews were not polytheistic, so under no circumstances would they have said "a god". They also understood from Scripture that "the Son of God" was also God. But the Jehovah's Witnesses and other cultists refuse to believe -- JUST LIKE THE UNBELIEVING JEWS -- that Jesus is God. And those who do not believe this will die in their sins.

Now if Jesus is God (which is indeed a fact) then there are already TWO persons in the Godhead. And since Jesus made it clear that the Holy Spirit is God (and can therefore be blasphemed) that makes THREE persons in the Godhead.

Is a Troll someone who sees the Scripture different from you and cares to see who would enjoy discussing such a topic? Was Jesus a Troll to the Jewish government who gave him the death penalty? Was William Tyndale strangled and burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English because he was a Troll who wanted to give others a different viewpoint from the Catholics? Asking for a friend.

Peterlag · Aug 4, 2022

stunnedbygrace said:
I don’t think they should ban all those discussions. I mean, OSAS is correct at its core. If you receive Gods Spirit you will live forever. And hopefully, if God leads men who can give a good answer, but without hatred and rancor, into those threads, they can speak beyond elementary things to build up the trust of us all and be an example in their manner of speech.

OSAS is correct in that if you receive Gods Spirit, you will live forever. BUT, in a great house, there are both vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor. And yet, the only way to be a vessel of honor is through trust. Your own working won’t bring about the child who inherits the blessing. The child of your own working and willing must be sent away. Only the child God has promised receives the inheritance.
So it’s got to be through trust, patience and waiting on God.
And this is why we do all we can to help strengthen and grow each other’s trust (edify), so that none of us will fail to enter Gods rest and cease from our own labors.
This is the spirit and truth of the sabbath rest command. To cease our working to try to bring about the child that receives the inheritance and to trust God to do it.

[/QUOTE]

Is a Troll someone who sees the Scripture different from you and cares to see who would enjoy discussing such a topic? Was Jesus a Troll to the Jewish government who gave him the death penalty? Was William Tyndale strangled and burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English because he was a Troll who wanted to give others a different viewpoint from the Catholics? Asking for a friend.

stunnedbygrace · Aug 4, 2022

Is a Troll someone who sees the Scripture different from you and cares to see who would enjoy discussing such a topic? Was Jesus a Troll to the Jewish government who gave him the death penalty? Was William Tyndale strangled and burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English because he was a Troll who wanted to give others a different viewpoint from the Catholics? Asking for a friend.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know what you’re saying. I didn’t call anyone a troll.

Enoch111 · Aug 4, 2022

Peterlag said:
Is a Troll someone who sees the Scripture different from you and cares to see who would enjoy discussing such a topic?

No. a troll is one who knows that he is out to lunch, but loves to stir the pot.

Peterlag · Aug 5, 2022

stunnedbygrace said:
Is a Troll someone who sees the Scripture different from you and cares to see who would enjoy discussing such a topic? Was Jesus a Troll to the Jewish government who gave him the death penalty? Was William Tyndale strangled and burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English because he was a Troll who wanted to give others a different viewpoint from the Catholics? Asking for a friend.

I don’t know what you’re saying. I didn’t call anyone a troll.[/QUOTE]

Okay

Peterlag · Aug 5, 2022

Enoch111 said:
No. a troll is one who knows that he is out to lunch, but loves to stir the pot.

I am very much in lunch

stunnedbygrace · Aug 5, 2022

stunnedbygrace said:
Is a Troll someone who sees the Scripture different from you and cares to see who would enjoy discussing such a topic? Was Jesus a Troll to the Jewish government who gave him the death penalty? Was William Tyndale strangled and burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English because he was a Troll who wanted to give others a different viewpoint from the Catholics? Asking for a friend.

I don’t know what you’re saying. I didn’t call anyone a troll.[/QUOTE]

Okay, I didn’t know you didn’t. I was responding to whoever it was who quoted my post and then replied, “ Is a Troll someone who sees the Scripture different from you and cares to see who would enjoy discussing such a topic? Was Jesus a Troll to the Jewish government who gave him the death penalty? Was William Tyndale strangled and burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English because he was a Troll who wanted to give others a different viewpoint from the Catholics? Asking for a friend.“

Heart2Soul · Aug 5, 2022

Ok everyone, let's drop the troll accusations and just participate in the thread by responding to the OP. Remember, address the topic at hand not the individual.
It's okay to disagree with what the OP states but do so with humility and use scripture to speak for you. Isn't God's Word powerful enough to rightly divide the Truth?
Have a blessed day.

Peterlag · Aug 6, 2022

Jesus prayed to God “not my will, but yours, be done” because Jesus and God have separate wills (Luke 22:42; John 5:30). They would have one will if Jesus and the Father are the same “one God.” Trinitarian doctrine claims that Luke is referring to the human will of Jesus, and not his divine will, but that is problematic because the Bible never says anything like that or even hints that Jesus had two wills in conflict with each other inside him allowing one to be human and the other to be divine.

The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17). But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the “image of God” Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4). If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time. Jesus can be called the “image” of God because he always did the will of God, and because he was the image of God is why he could say you had seen the Father if you had seen him.

Ephesians 4:4-6 says there is one God and one Lord and one spirit. This verse teaches exactly what the Jews expected based on the Old Testament and what Jesus, Peter, Paul, and others taught: that there was one God, one Lord, and one spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 8:6 says “for us there is one God, the Father… and one Lord, Jesus Christ.” This simple and straightforward language elucidates that the Father is God and the Son is “Lord” making a clear differentiation between the two.

Kermos · Aug 6, 2022

Peterlag said:
Jesus prayed to God “not my will, but yours, be done” because Jesus and God have separate wills (Luke 22:42; John 5:30). They would have one will if Jesus and the Father are the same “one God.” Trinitarian doctrine claims that Luke is referring to the human will of Jesus, and not his divine will, but that is problematic because the Bible never says anything like that or even hints that Jesus had two wills in conflict with each other inside him allowing one to be human and the other to be divine.

The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17). But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the “image of God” Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4). If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time. Jesus can be called the “image” of God because he always did the will of God, and because he was the image of God is why he could say you had seen the Father if you had seen him.

Ephesians 4:4-6 says there is one God and one Lord and one spirit. This verse teaches exactly what the Jews expected based on the Old Testament and what Jesus, Peter, Paul, and others taught: that there was one God, one Lord, and one spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 8:6 says “for us there is one God, the Father… and one Lord, Jesus Christ.” This simple and straightforward language elucidates that the Father is God and the Son is “Lord” making a clear differentiation between the two.

Jesus reveals Himself as truly God and truly Man at His discretion.

As truly Man, Jesus has a Father, and as truly God, Jesus is God and called "Everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6).

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Here is an instance of Jesus, truly God, saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of God thus including both the person of Jesus and the person of the Father in the One True God.

Here is another instance, this time of Jesus, truly Man, saying "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (John 20:17) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of Man thus including the person of Jesus and His brothers in one (John 17:21). See, the Son of Man being the firstborn of the born of God persons (Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, John 3:3-8).

We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly God as well as His capacity as truly Man. We can use context to make the distinction.

We, born of the Holy Spirit of God persons (John 3:3-8), are one in God (John 17:21) because of the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17), thus God is One. We are the blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God's work in us.

People that do not believe that Jesus is God are not beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God.

Here's some data on John 10:33

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