22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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CadyandZoe

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(1) Premil is totally preoccupied with, and dependent upon, one chapter in the Bible – Revelation 20. It interprets the rest of Scripture in the light of its opinion of one lone highly-debated chapter located in the most figurative and obscure book in the Bible. All end-time Scripture is viewed through the lens of Revelation 20. This is not a very wise way to establish any truth or doctrine. Take this passage out of the equation and Premillennialism has nothing in the inspired pages to support their main tenets. Amils have a problem with, and very much disagree with this form of hermeneutics and exegesis of many Scriptures.

Did you reject your hermeneutics before or after you decided to reject Premillennialism? It seems to me that one would do well to rely on clear passages of scripture in order to shed light on those less understood. In my view, Revelation 20 is not only clear, it is explicit and without ambiguity. I see no reason to allegorize or spiritualize that passage in order to make Amillennialism work.

Not only this, but we find the Millennial kingdom all through the Bible, even if it goes by another name in those locations. Isaiah chapter 11, for instance, describes the Millennial kingdom, which is a time when Zion will be ruled by the shoot of Jesse and the nations will come to Zion to seek his wisdom. Also see Micha 4:2 We can list many other passages that speak about a coming time when the Lord will rule over the entire world from Mt. Zion.

(2) Premil hangs its doctrine on a very precarious frayed thread: that of Revelation 20 following Revelation 19 chronologically in time. To hold this, it has to dismiss the different recaps (or different camera views pertaining to the intra-Advent period) that exist throughout the book of Revelation, divorce it from repeated Scripture on this matter and also explain away the clear and explicit climactic detail that pertains to Revelation 19. Premil is dependent upon the dubious premise that Revelation 20 is chronological to Revelation 19. That is it! Disprove that and Premil falls apart.

Premillennialism doesn't depend on Chronology. Premillennialism relies on logic and the implied, obvious sequence that the concept requires. Jesus comes before the Millennial period because the Millennial Period can't start without him. He is the essential, central figure of that time period when the day of the Lord has begun and the Lord rules from Zion. Even without the book of Revelation, one can deduce this from the rest of the Bible.

(3) The detail Premil attributes to Revelation 20 compared to what the actual text explicitly says is day and night. Revelation 20 does not remotely say what Premil attribute to it. Many extravagant characteristics, events and ideas are inserted into Revelation 20 that do not exist in the said chapter.

For example:

For years, it has been the Premil mantra that Jesus will be ruling in majesty and glory with a rod of iron for 1000 years on planet earth after the second coming. But this can be found nowhere in Revelation 20 or any other passage in Scripture?

The duration of the Millennium comes from Revelation, but the idea of a righteous kingdom and a righteous king ruling on earth from the city of Jerusalem is well supported in the Biblical text.

Premillennialists argue that salvation will continue on after the second coming. But where does it say that? The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Scripture makes clear: now is the day of salvation.

I'm not sure all Premillennials believe that salvation continues after the Second Coming. But I see no reason why not. The scriptures don't rule this out. God can save anyone he wants at any time he wants.

Nevertheless, Revelation 20 predicts an event whereby some portion of the world rises up to do battle against the city of Jerusalem. By this we know that the world is still a mixed population of saints and enemies of the gospel. It's conceivable that during the 1000 years, someone might come to saving faith.

It also shows the completion of the great commission ushers in the end of the world (Matthew 28:19-20).

Jesus speaks about the end of the "age" not the end of the world.

Scriptures tells us that “the longsuffering of our Lord” that marks the period before Jesus comes as a thief in the night “is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). There is no more salvation after that.

According to the Premil view, the patience of the Lord ends at the White throne.

They argue that the old covenant arrangement will be fully restarted in a future millennium, even though Revelation 20 makes no mention of such teaching.

Revelation 20 mentions the fact that judges are set up. Justice is carried out according to the rule of law, and the Law of Jerusalem at that time will be the law of Moses, with a slight modification. There is no need for animal sacrifices. Other than that, Jeremiah says that the Law will be written on their hearts.

Premillennialists speak about the restoration of an elevated position for ethnic Israel on their future millennial earth. But a careful study of Revelation 20 teaches no such thing.
The "beloved city" of verse 9 is Jerusalem.

They insist that glorified saints and mortal sinners will interact in a future millennium, even though Revelation 20 makes no mention of such a belief.

The beheaded martyrs come back to life. They are ruling over the tribes of Israel. Refer to Matthew 19:28 and Luke 22:30

(4) Premillennialists interpretation of Revelation 20 contradicts numerous explicit climactic Scriptures. Premillennialists have to insert “a thousand years” in passage after passage where it does not exist. This is called adding unto Scripture, something forbidden in the Word of God (Deuteronomy 12:32 and Revelation 22:18).

In my video on the Day of the Lord I liken the coming of Jesus and the day of the Lord as a story, which begins slowly and builds to a climax, followed by a time of resolution. That is, the Day of the Lord isn't the second coming as such. It's rather like the art of story-telling, the Day of the Lord would be known as “the middle”, also known as the “rising action” which includes the events that lead up to the climax. The “Turning Point,” also known as the Climax, is the peak of action in the story. It’s where the opposing forces of the conflict meet head-on, or an important decision is made or action is taken. The Day of the Lord is the middle and the second coming of Christ is the climax. The story continues with the events that come after the climax known as the "falling action". The Millennial Kingdom is the falling action, the time period after the Second Coming, during which the story is explained and resolved.

(5) Premil is always explaining away the clear and explicit New Testament Scripture (the fuller revelation) by the shadow, type and vaguer Old Testament. It uses indistinct or misunderstood Old Testament Scripture to negate and reject clear and explicit New Testament Scripture that teaches otherwise. We Christians have the benefit of the New Testament to explain what is difficult or obscure in the Old Testament. Christ has superseded the old covenant arrangement and now fulfils the new covenant arrangement as predicted. The New Testament is the greater revelation. The interpretation placed on the Old Testament by Christ and the New Testament writers override all other opinions and interpretations of man. As Augustine wrote: “The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed, the Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed.”

In my experience, I would caution those who take Augustine's axiom too far, which can lead one to inadvertently change the intended meaning of OT passages by superimposing interpretations of the New Testament onto them. One must be willing to correct faulty interpretations of New Testament passages. In fact, Augustine's axiom can only be seen in retrospect after both the New Testament and the Old Testament are understood on their own terms.

(6) Many testify that they are Premillennial because they take the Word of God literal, yet, when you put their theology to the test an opposite picture unfolds. Premillennialism spiritualizes the literal passages and literalizes the spiritual passages. Their hyper-literalistic approach to highly-figurative Revelation is a case-in-point. Their own hermeneutics actually forbids their beliefs. As Kim Riddlebarger says: “Their own hermeneutics will not bear the weight that is assigned to it … they cannot make good on their own stated hermeneutics”
I am a premillennialist because I passages in the way they were intended.
 
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WPM

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The problem is, though, Premillennialism is true. The Millennial period doesn't begin until Jesus returns.

Not so, not according to Scripture. It began with the first resurrection. There, Jesus conquered the grave on our behalf.
 

WPM

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My friend, I am not going to convince you. But people who come and read your nonsense and outright lies about premillennialism people can read

I am not here for you anymore. I am here to defend against your lies.

Stop avoiding please.

Do you believe the Jewish temple will be rebuilt? Will animal sacrifices be restarted?
 

WPM

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If you read them, You will see they mention that the king will rule with a rod of Iron.

Why don’t you read them, or are you afraid?

LOL? As I suspected. They were a figment of your imagination. If you had something you would present it, but you don't. Why not admit that? The burden of proof is with you.
 

Truth7t7

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Not so, not according to Scripture. It began with the first resurrection. There, Jesus conquered the grave on our behalf.
Paul the interpretation of (Thousand Years) in Revelation 20:4-6 is given clearly in scripture

2 Peter 3:8 below gives the clear interpretation, one day is a thousand years in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm, its that simple

That seen in Revelation 20:1-6 is the Lord's eternal spiritual realm, not this earthly realm as Millennialist "Falsely Claim"

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

WPM

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1. , 2, 3
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

the very fact that Scripture separates these two resurrections is enough, even if you reject the 1,000 years is actually 1,000 years. whatever time frame you use, even misusing 2 Peter as a doctrinal statement defining divine days- it would still be 1,000 human years!

afirst resurrection presupposes a second and verse 5 shows that there are untolde numbers who do not take part in the first resurrection.

As for Days of Glorification- I would need you to spell this out specifically what you mean before I can answer properly.

Hello! The first resurrection is Christ. You cannot even recognize that. Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Amils believe in corroboration. Multiple Scripture proves that the first resurrection of Jesus occurred 2000 years ago.
 

Truth7t7

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Hello! The first resurrection is Christ. You cannot even recognize that. Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Amils believe in corroboration. Multiple Scripture proves that the first resurrection of Jesus occurred 2000 years ago.
We Disagree On Interpretation Of Revelation 20:6 And The Words "First Resurrection"

There Are "Two" Future Resurrection's To Take Place On The Last Day, The Believer Is Blessed To Be In The "First Resurrection" To Eternal Life, The "Second Resurrection" Is The "Second Death" To Eternal Damnation On The Last Day


The First Resurrection, On The Last Day Explained?

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Stop avoiding please.

Do you believe the Jewish temple will be rebuilt? Will animal sacrifices be restarted?
How can there be an abomination of desolation in the holy place without a temple?

They, in sin, will rebuild the temple (if you would actually study, they are about to do that very thing as we speak).

The time of the end is near. Instead of rejecting and ignoring the signs, You would be better served to read scripture and praise God.
 

jeffweeder

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You are confusing resurrection with rebirth. Two different things. In my experience, Amillennial depends heavily on redefining terms, common to many cults.

Woah, steady on mate.

Those born again have passed from death to life....and the time now is. Jn 5


Jn 5
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life

25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
 

WPM

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Did you reject your hermeneutics before or after you decided to reject Premillennialism? It seems to me that one would do well to rely on clear passages of scripture in order to shed light on those less understood. In my view, Revelation 20 is not only clear, it is explicit and without ambiguity. I see no reason to allegorize or spiritualize that passage in order to make Amillennialism work.

Most honest commentators would recognize that Revelation is the most symbolic and obscure book in Scripture. From that location you attempt to explain the whole end-time scenario. The mistake you make is to interpret the rest of Scripture by your opinion of one lone highly-symbolic much-debated chapter in scripture. The evidence of the error of your position is the fact you lack any corroboration for every tenet of Premil. All you have is your private opinion of one chapter. This is horrible hermeneutics.

The major hole in your understanding is corroboration a core aspect of hermeneutics. There is nowhere else in Scripture that corroborates your hyper-literalist understanding on every single aspect of Premil. There is nothing, and you know that. That alone is reason to abandon it. Amils tend to hold strong to the truth of corroboration. Premils reject its important. That is the main division between the two camps.

Not only this, but we find the Millennial kingdom all through the Bible, even if it goes by another name in those locations. Isaiah chapter 11, for instance, describes the Millennial kingdom, which is a time when Zion will be ruled by the shoot of Jesse and the nations will come to Zion to seek his wisdom. Also see Micha 4:2 We can list many other passages that speak about a coming time when the Lord will rule over the entire world from Mt. Zion.

Hello! Read where this belongs! The "last days." Because you have zero corroboration you make your imaginary future millennium the NHNE and the last days. This is ridiculous and shows the absurdity of Premil and the deformity of their hermeneutics.

Isaiah 2:2-4 says, speaking of the Lord’s first Advent, “And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

Micah 4:1-3 parallels this teaching, saying, “in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.”

These passages are telling us that Messiah would come and bring peace to His subjects. This would be performed through the Word of God going out of Zion to all nations in these last days. Christ did this. The Gentiles are now coming to the truth of God by their millions. Isaiah receives a pictorial vision of the approaching new covenant order, and the last days. It is given in a metaphorical style describing the incredible peace and reconciliation that comes through the success of the Gospel. The mountain of the Lord refers to the kingdom introduced by Christ. There is no more war there. Mountains in Scripture prophetically speak of kingdoms. That is the case in Isaiah 2 and Malachi 4. The peace described came with the earthly ministry of Christ. It is spiritual. It pertains to the kingdom of God. It also relates to the last days – the days we are living in.

Premillennialism doesn't depend on Chronology. Premillennialism relies on logic and the implied, obvious sequence that the concept requires. Jesus comes before the Millennial period because the Millennial Period can't start without him. He is the essential, central figure of that time period when the day of the Lord has begun and the Lord rules from Zion. Even without the book of Revelation, one can deduce this from the rest of the Bible.

Jesus referred specifically to Psalm 118:22 when talking to the religious Jews of His day: “Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder” (Matthew 21:42-44).

Christ shows Psalm 118:22 and Isaiah 28:16 to be messianic prophecies pertaining to Himself. By doing that, Christ was revealing the literal fulfilment of these figurative Old Testament predictions. One thing we should note as we consider Christ’s interpretation of this Old Testament passage is how He predicts the removal of Israel’s special place of favor among the nations (through their stubborn rebellion,) and the placing of God’s blessing upon the Gentile people (through their obedience). This is something that is seen in the various New Testament passages that refer to these Old Testament prophecies.

The issue at hand here is the fact there is more than just a natural Israeli application to Hebraic terms. In the New Testament, the Holy Spirit repeatedly employs these appellations in a spiritual sense to describe the redeemed assembly – a company that includes countless Gentiles.

Psalm 118:22 tells us: “The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.”

Christ showed the rejection of Himself, predicted in Psalm 118, related to the Jews rejecting Him during His earthly ministry. Even though “He came unto his own, and his own received him not” (John 1:11) Scripture makes clear: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” (John 1:12). Christ shows that the Gentiles would embrace Him and bring forth the necessary spiritual fruit that attends being true believers.

Isaiah 28:16 declares: “Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.”

This Messianic text shows us that Christ is located within Zion. He is a figurative “precious corner stone, a sure foundation” that has been laid in Zion. Those that embrace Him enter Zion – that spiritual place of rest and safety. The spiritual application is clear for all to see. Zion (Sion) represents the kingdom of God; it represents the heavenly realm. We see support for this in our Lord’s comments to the unbelieving Jews: “The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”

When the New Testament references these Old Testament prophecies and applies them to the new covenant era we see the spiritual sense of Zion (Sion) today. Zion/Sion in a New Testament sense is not a natural earthly location but a spiritual abode that the people of God enter. Christ is the cornerstone of a wider spiritual building located within Zion, which believers inhabit. It is a dwelling place that the Christ-rejecter cannot enjoy.
 

WPM

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Premillennialism doesn't depend on Chronology. Premillennialism relies on logic and the implied, obvious sequence that the concept requires. Jesus comes before the Millennial period because the Millennial Period can't start without him. He is the essential, central figure of that time period when the day of the Lord has begun and the Lord rules from Zion. Even without the book of Revelation, one can deduce this from the rest of the Bible.

Romans 9:30-33 continues in the same vein: “the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.”

In the New Testament, Christ rules over spiritual Zion. All who embrace Him reside there and enjoy the spiritual blessings that accompanies intimacy with Him. Everything in both the Old and New Testament is pointing towards Jesus Christ. It is not about physical earthly land. It is not about the Middle East. It is not about a brick temple. It is about spiritual territory. It is about a heavenly kingdom. Earthly Zion means nothing today; heavenly Zion is everything. It is not about an earthly king, but rather a heavenly king. It is not about race; it is rather about grace.

“The stone which the builders rejected” (Psalm 118:22), “a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence” (Isaiah 8:14) or the “stumblingstone” (Romans 9:32-33) within Zion (Sion) is Jesus Christ. Scripture shows us that the rejection of that figurative stone was the rejection of our Savior. Paul, in Romans 9:30-33, shows natural Gentiles (heathens) accepting that stone, experiencing salvation, and entering into the favor of God. Natural Israel, on the other hand, is shown in Romans 9:31–32 to have stumbled at Christ the rock.

Romans 9:33 broadens Zion out to “whosoever believes in him shall not be ashamed.” This includes God’s people of all nationalities. Those who were hitherto aliens and strangers to Almighty God have now graciously “attained to righteousness” whereas natural Israel “hath not attained to the law of righteousness.” The spiritual application is obvious.

Albert Barnes explains: “This rock, designed as a corner stone to the Church, became, by the wickedness of the Jews, the block over which they fell into ruin.”

Through Calvary, the Gentile has been brought into a new realm, a new spiritual status, and therefore enjoys a new citizenship, with its consequential new benefits. Gentile believers unite with Jewish believers in inhabiting Zion. Salvation comes by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

Romans 11:26, “all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.”

Paul makes a slight alteration to Isaiah’s prophecy in order to show the fulfilment of this glorious prophecy. Instead of saying that the Redeemer would “come to Zion” he significantly says Christ would “come out of Sion.” Is there a reason for this? The reason for this significant amendment was obviously because this Old Testament prophecy was no longer unfulfilled but was perfectly fulfilled in Christ’s earthly ministry

As we discovered previously, Paul takes his statement “all Israel shall be saved” from Isaiah 59:20: “as it is written.” So what does it say? Isaiah 59:20 says, “And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD.”

Many Dispensationalists will highlight the last part of Romans 11:26, which promises unbroken favor upon ethnic Israelites, but seem to miss, ignore or conveniently overlook the actual company in view. It is not all natural Israelites. It is not an unqualified statement. Scripture is careful to attribute eternal favor to only those that are redeemed (whether Jew or Gentile). The reading outlines a conditional clause: “And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.” “Sion” in reference to “Jacob” relates to the kingdom of God. Christ the Messiah (the deliverer) will come out from among true Israel, not natural Israel (Jacob).

1 Peter 2:3-11 adds further evidence to our enquiry: “If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.”

Peter does not relate Sion (Zion) to the natural realm and to ethnicity. It does not apply without salvation to natural Jews or to the physical nation of Israel, as modern-day Dispensationalists do. Quite the opposite! He shows Zion to be a spiritual place that all believers inhabit. God’s people are often referred to in Scripture in figurative terms. In this passage, they are specifically described in building terms. The Church is described as a spiritual structure incorporating spiritual building blocks – collectively known as His body – the temple. In 1 Peter 2:6, believers are described as being “lively stones” in God’s “spiritual house,” and as being a “holy priesthood” offering up “spiritual sacrifices.” This building is said to be located in “Zion,” with Christ as its “chief cornerstone.” These are the only sacrifices that are acceptable to God today.

The elect of God enter Zion upon salvation, as they embrace Christ. Peter describes Gods people as a “chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people” (1 Peter 2:5). Like Jesus teaching in Matthew 21:42-46, the nation mentioned is shown to be no ordinary carnal nation. No, but a sanctified spiritual community found throughout all nations. It is a spiritual nation that is positionally seated in heavenly places.

What is more, verse 10 shows the dominant people in view here are not Jews but Gentiles. These were a people who have previously “in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.” This agrees with the constant message of the New Testament that all the people of God, whether Jew or Gentile, have taken a hold of Sion’s king and entered into a heavenly standing in Christ.

The believer is now seated in heavenly places spiritually – in the true Mount Zion. Why? Because Christ now reigns there on David’s throne. Those that have the “fear of the LORD is his treasure” and experience the “strength of salvation.” There is no need for some supposed future millennium, this age fulfils every heavenly requirement for the fulfilment of Christ’s kingly reign.

Hebrews 12:18 supports this contention, saying, “For ye are not come [plural perfect active indicative] unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest.”

Hebrews 12:22 says, “But ye are come [plural perfect active indicative] unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels.”

Physical Jerusalem is no longer considered true Sion (Zion). Under the new covenant, Sion (Zion) is heavenly and eternal, not earthly and temporal. The mount that matters today is revealed as heavenly Sion, not physical Jerusalem that has rejected Christ for 2000 years. These references in the original relate to the present, and are active, meaning the subject continues to exist in the state indicated by the verb. They relate to the here-and-now and are ongoing. They speak of our immediate entry into the kingdom of God and our current spiritual standing in the New Jerusalem. The heavenly Jerusalem is more than a future hope (even though it most assuredly is that), it is a present reality.
 

WPM

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How can there be an abomination of desolation in the holy place without a temple?

They, in sin, will rebuild the temple (if you would actually study, they are about to do that very thing as we speak).

The time of the end is near. Instead of rejecting and ignoring the signs, You would be better served to read scripture and praise God.

Hello! The temple is long gone. That speaks of its fulfilment and demolishes Premil in the process. Your avoidance is deafening. Premil cannot 'come out' with what it believes. To do so would expose it as folly land eave it open to scorn.
 

WPM

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The duration of the Millennium comes from Revelation, but the idea of a righteous kingdom and a righteous king ruling on earth from the city of Jerusalem is well supported in the Biblical text.

Where in Revelation 20 does it say that Jesus is ruling with a rod of iron for a thousand years on earth?

I'm not sure all Premillennials believe that salvation continues after the Second Coming. But I see no reason why not. The scriptures don't rule this out. God can save anyone he wants at any time he wants.

Nevertheless, Revelation 20 predicts an event whereby some portion of the world rises up to do battle against the city of Jerusalem. By this we know that the world is still a mixed population of saints and enemies of the gospel. It's conceivable that during the 1000 years, someone might come to saving faith.

The Op rebuts your opinion. Premillennialists argue that salvation will continue on after the second coming. But where does it say that? The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Scripture makes clear: now is the day of salvation. It also shows the completion of the great commission ushers in the end of the world (Matthew 28:19-20). Scriptures tells us that “the longsuffering of our Lord” that marks the period before Jesus comes as a thief in the night “is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). There is no more salvation after that.

Jesus speaks about the end of the "age" not the end of the world.

He describes the second coming as "the end." It is also "the end of the age." Same thing! The unindoctrinated Bible student should have no difficulty in understanding the meaning and weightiness of the phrases/events “the beginning” and “the end.” That is because they actually mean what they say. These expressions are often used on their own throughout Scripture because the Holy Spirit evidently expects the believer to take God literally at His Word and accept these plain and obvious statements at face value.

Whether one is reading a book, watching a movie, or observing a ball-game, the concept of “the beginning” and “the end” of something is too obvious to even debate or explain. Hello! It is as clear as clear can be. We are talking about normal 101 common sense. One is the complete antithesis of the other.

When it comes to this scene of time, Scripture makes clear that it is not going to last forever. It shows that this current fallen corrupted realm has an expiration date. Just like there was a beginning to creation, this earth, time, and human life, there will equally be an end to all this as we know it.

According to the Premil view, the patience of the Lord ends at the White throne.
  1. What other Scripture do you consider corroborates your opinion of Revelation 20 and teaches there are two distinct future judgement days (that will see all mankind stand before Christ to give account for their lives) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
  2. Where in Scripture does it mention "judgement days" (plural), in regard to the end?
The great white throne follows the one and only coming of Christ, which sees the removal of the current corrupt heavens and earth.

Revelation 20:11-15 says, “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and THE DEAD were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up THE DEAD which were in it; and death and hell delivered up THE DEAD which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

Where does it say this is just the unsaved? Nowhere! This is a general judgment when Jesus comes! It doesn't say they are only the unsaved dead anywhere. It says "the dead" were "judged."

The great white throne arrives at the one and only coming of Christ, which sees the removal of the current corrupt heavens and earth. Scripture proves that the second coming is all-consummating. It is the end. This ushers in the arrival of the new heavens and new earth. This also instigates the time when the “dead” are raised (saved and lost) to face their final general judgment. This all-inclusive number is “judged every man according to their works.” This corresponds with several other Scripture that locates the raising/judging of the dead to the second coming. This is a general judgment when Jesus comes!

The reality is, this passage is couched in general resurrection terminology.

Revelation 11:15-18 parallels: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.”

The last trump is the time when “the time of the dead, that they should be judged.” This is the last trump, which is after the thousand years. It the time when the righteous expressly receive their “reward” and when Christ will “destroy” the wicked. For those that refuse to bow the knee to Christ it will be a time of “wrath.” We see here that there are two parties standing before the same throne receiving two diverse sentences.

How many times will the dead be judged? Once! It does not say men are appointed to die once and then two judgments. No, it says “it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).

Isaiah also speaks of the resurrection of the dead, in Isaiah 26:19-27:1, and also identifies it with the time and events that surround the end of the millennium, saying, Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon.”

The passage declares, “behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.” The Hebrew word used here for slain is ‘harag’ meaning to destroy out of hand, kill, and put to death. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore assuredly happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.

There is such an obvious finality to this whole reading that no one could surely argue with any credence that it is speaking of anything other than the end of the world. Moreover, this climactic event also sees the complete destruction of that great enemy of the kingdom of God – that old serpent/dragon Satan and the wicked is once and for all destroyed. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.
 

Truth7t7

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Read and Review Revelation chapter 20. It's all there.
A literal Millennial Kingdom on this earth isn't seen in Revelation 20 as explained below

2 Peter 3:8 below gives the clear interpretation, one day is a "thousand years" in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm, its that simple

That seen in Revelation 20:1-6 is the Lord's eternal spiritual realm, not this earthly realm as Millennialist "Falsely Claim"

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

WPM

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Revelation 20 mentions the fact that judges are set up. Justice is carried out according to the rule of law, and the Law of Jerusalem at that time will be the law of Moses, with a slight modification. There is no need for animal sacrifices. Other than that, Jeremiah says that the Law will be written on their hearts.

The "beloved city" of verse 9 is Jerusalem..

This occurs at the second coming. There is only one judgment.

The beheaded martyrs come back to life. They are ruling over the tribes of Israel. Refer to Matthew 19:28 and Luke 22:3

It doesn't say that. They judge unbelieving Israel at the final judgment.

In my video on the Day of the Lord I liken the coming of Jesus and the day of the Lord as a story, which begins slowly and builds to a climax, followed by a time of resolution. That is, the Day of the Lord isn't the second coming as such. It's rather like the art of story-telling, the Day of the Lord would be known as “the middle”, also known as the “rising action” which includes the events that lead up to the climax. The “Turning Point,” also known as the Climax, is the peak of action in the story. It’s where the opposing forces of the conflict meet head-on, or an important decision is made or action is taken. The Day of the Lord is the middle and the second coming of Christ is the climax. The story continues with the events that come after the climax known as the "falling action". The Millennial Kingdom is the falling action, the time period after the Second Coming, during which the story is explained and resolved.

I am not interested in your bias and faulty man-made Premil videos. Scripture exposes your opinion. Paul confirms the finality of the return of Jesus, in 1 Corinthians 15:22-24, stating, “as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming [Gr. parousia]. Then cometh the end [Gr. telos], when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

Please note the careful correlation between the parousia and the telos. This is a truth that is found throughout the NT. They are synonymous with each other. There is absolutely nothing that Premillennialists can do with such a clear and climactic passage apart from deny the obvious or add unto Scripture by inserting “a thousand years” in-between the coming (parousia) of Christ and the end (telos) where it does not belong. This is the dilemma for Premil throughout the Word. They are fighting the obvious.

The Greek simply reads:

Christos – Christ
en – at
autos – His
parousia – coming
eita – then
telos – the end

The coming of the Lord is shown to be the end of the world. There is no gap of time in-between the coming of Christ, the resurrection and the end. They all belong to the one final climactic overall event.

The phrase “he shall have delivered up” comes from the single Greek word paradidomi meaning surrender, yield up, intrust, or transmit. This is what happens to the kingdom when Christ comes. He surrenders it to His Father, He yields it up.

The converse phrase “he shall have put down” comes from the single Greek word katargeo meaning: bring to nought, none effect, or abolish. This is what happens to “all” existing “rule and all authority and power” when Jesus Comes. The rule of man comes to an end and now it becomes the rule of God.

The Apostle Paul instructs the believer in 1 Corinthians 1:7-8 to “come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming [Gr. parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end [Gr. telos], that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

The coming of the Lord is again associated with “the end.” We can see here how the phrases “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,” “the day of our Lord Jesus Christ” and “the end” are depicted as synonymous. The second coming is depicted throughout the Word as a climactic event that ushers in the conclusion of time. Within this teaching is a comforting promise for every child of God that that Christ shall “confirm” or establish or secure us “unto the end.”

The two words that are used in the New Testament to describe the start and finish of this current temporal state of time are archē meaning “beginning” and telos meaning “end.” They are the antithesis of each other. The word archē basically means the origin or the commencement. The word telos means the termination, completion or that by which a thing is finished. Notably, the Bible continually relates this phrase “the end” [Gr. telos] to the second coming. The Lord’s return is shown to usher in the completion of this age and of time.

Scripture constantly shows the creation of this earth and the beginning of this world to be the beginning of this age. Likewise, the end of this world and the regeneration of this earth is repeatedly shown to correspond with the end of this age. Time and history find themselves sandwiched in between these two great events. Simply put: “this age” refers to “time” and “the age to come” or the “hereafter” refers to “eternity.”

This contradicts numerous Scriptures. It is not just that much Scripture depicts the second coming as “the end of the age/world,” it is that it labels it as “the last day” or simply “the end.” The Bible shows the resurrection/judgment of the righteous and the resurrection of the wicked to occur on “the last (or final) day” of “the last days” when Jesus comes.

Significantly, in all the references re the last day that I gave Randy above (which he avoided), the wording in the original for “last day” is always identical – eschatee heemara. The Greek word eschatee used here comes from the root word eschatos, from where we get our word English eschatology, and simply means end, last, farthest or final.
 
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WPM

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In my experience, I would caution those who take Augustine's axiom too far, which can lead one to inadvertently change the intended meaning of OT passages by superimposing interpretations of the New Testament onto them. One must be willing to correct faulty interpretations of New Testament passages. In fact, Augustine's axiom can only be seen in retrospect after both the New Testament and the Old Testament are understood on their own terms.

Premil is always explaining away the clear and explicit New Testament Scripture (the fuller revelation) by the shadow, type and vaguer Old Testament. It uses indistinct or misunderstood Old Testament Scripture to negate and reject clear and explicit New Testament Scripture that teaches otherwise. We Christians have the benefit of the New Testament to explain what is difficult or obscure in the Old Testament. Christ has superseded the old covenant arrangement and now fulfils the new covenant arrangement as predicted. The New Testament is the greater revelation. The interpretation placed on the Old Testament by Christ and the New Testament writers override all other opinions and interpretations of man. As Augustine wrote: “The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed, the Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed.”

I am a premillennialist because I passages in the way they were intended.

I disagree. Premil is an unsupported doctrine. The mistake you make is to interpret the rest of Scripture by your opinion of one lone highly-symbolic much-debated chapter in scripture. The evidence of the error of your position is the fact you lack any corroboration for every tenet of Premil. All you have is your private opinion of one chapter.

If I am wrong, please provide me with clear corroboration for these main tenets:

1. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
2. Where in Scripture does it mention "resurrection days" (plural), pertaining to the end?
3. What Scripture (including Revelation 20) do you consider definitely teaches there are two distinct future judgement days (that will see all mankind stand before Christ to give account for their lives) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
4. Where in Scripture does it mention "judgement days" (plural), in regard to the end?
5. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent, then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroy them?
 

stunnedbygrace

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It's my "Opinion" you maintain your position, trying desperately to create a mortal Kingdom on this earth, that you want to believe is your "Millennium" this being major error in your teaching and belief

I know. It’s okay.
 
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