The title speaks for itself.
With very very few exceptions, and there is one on this site, no one can deny it.
With very very few exceptions, and there is one on this site, no one can deny it.
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Once OSAS Always OSAS
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
I got someone to finally see the light after about of year of debates.
Once they become honest with themselves and stop explaining away the plain warnings that are written in the holy book, it’s only a matter of time before they drop Once Saved Always Saved. But its soo hard to get many of them to see the error.
Soo hard.
Once they become honest with themselves and stop explaining away the plain warnings that are written in the holy book, it’s only a matter of time before they drop Once Saved Always Saved. But its soo hard to get many of them to see the error.
Soo hard.
The testimony of the former OSAS believer is that celebrating grace over sinning was not enough.
Hating sinning is not just lip-service for the righteous in the end.
Hating sinning is not just lip-service for the righteous in the end.
God blesses you for it.
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
The key of course is being honest with ourselves. It's not by mistake that Jesus says, in an honest and good heart, the seed grows unto righteousness of God without sinning for the devil.
Truly, all God is looking for is honesty first from any soul. He cannot help self-deceiving dishonesty.
Especially with those trained to teach being unrighteous christian sinners, as by grace.
God is love, and so God is not One to force any soul to love Him with singleness of heart and do His will, without also serving the devil.
Those who believe, practice, and teach Romans 7 as standard christianity in this life, cannot at this time, be helped.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Amen to that.
However, eternal security is not the problem. Unconditional eternal security is the lie.
I never did believe that, but I was taught to trust in conditional eternal security as by law.
One is the OSAS sinner with grace, and the other is the Pharisee without grace.
Assurance of eternal salvation in this life, is simply obeying Him spiritually with a pure heart first, and so also obeying His law righteously in deed and in truth.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
The letter of the law kills them doing the law outwardly without the Spirit, and the Spirit of the law is not with anyone transgressing the law outwardly, no matter how gracious they are.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
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How anyone can believe in unconditional salvation after examining these two verses together is beyond me:
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How anyone can believe in unconditional salvation after examining these two verses together is beyond me:
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And the thread is about how once someone believes OSAS, it is a very strong delusion not to, because in the end, it is nothing but believing we are saved, because we still believe it, even while not doing it.
They literally believe, that so long as they believe it, it must be true.
They don't even need to believe it, but just want to believe it.
They literally teach that still having knowledge of the name Jesus in the mind, without cursing Him, means they are still saved.
The strong seduction of that is, of course, that what they are doing has nothing to do with it. That is the definition of faith only without works.
Once someone convinces themselves of it, there is hardly no breaking from it.
Even the one on this site, who broke from OSAS, confesses that they were only believing it, because they thought it would bring them 'naturally and eventually and progressively' to the salvation of righteousness from sinning, and it never did. Which is because secular humanism by grace, is not becoming sons of God with divine power of Christ.
That is when they took matters of faith into their own hands, and began to do what Jesus' says, and not just think about it as something that may or may not come to pass in the future.
The bottom line was, that they were fed up with just 'hating' sinning, and started to stop sinning, so that hating sinning and themselves for sinning, was no longer necessary.
They ceased to celebrate grace as a cover for sinning with the devil, and began to rejoice in the Lord with victory over not sinning with the devil.
That is when they took matters of faith into their own hands, and began to do what Jesus' says, and not just think about it as something that may or may not come to pass in the future.
The bottom line was, that they were fed up with just 'hating' sinning, and started to stop sinning, so that hating sinning and themselves for sinning, was no longer necessary.
They ceased to celebrate grace as a cover for sinning with the devil, and began to rejoice in the Lord with victory over not sinning with the devil.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
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Assurance of salvation has nothing to do with the works of man. I have known many men of upright, fine character who have eventually betrayed their own spiritual desolation.
I know the doctrine is a tenacious snare for many, and it never made any sense to me even when I believed it, but I know nothing of what is in the heart of another man.
The "Us-and-them" attitude has not always rung hollow for me, but I have learned how ugly it can be since joining this forum.
To believe that all who hold a false doctrine are of the same mind is not wise. This hard lesson I have learned from experience.
All I know of the matter is that true assurance of salvation is of far greater quality and value than that which can be rested on only a handful of ambiguous proof texts.
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I was simply taught that to get rid of sin, all I had to do was "trust in the finished work of the cross". Even though it sounded good at the time along with many other soothing phrases, I never made it the core of my beliefs.
I think my main reason for believing these little phrases was a lack of familiarity with the Bible. However, I have a theory that once you do come in contact with the Word, you can either embrace it and let go of OSAS or you can suppress it and fall into a very strong delusion.
I think OSAS once appealed to me because I felt deeply unsure of whether I could overcome the sin in my life. Many teachers and preachers reassured me that I didn't have to and that if I just relaxed and trusted in Jesus enough, I'd become a better Christian through that.
It was all about resting, not working. Trusting, not striving. But sin mopped the floor up with me as a result of believing this and I read Galatians 5 and saw no fruit.
Anyway, there is being mistaken and then there is being under a strong delusion. I see repeating osas phrases over and over in the face of clear non-osas Scriptural logic as being under that delusion.
And it's a strong one because it rids believers of their obligation to be holy and overcome sin. If sin is just the air we breathe and it can't be overcome, then there's no reason to put in the effort and dying to self thats involved with getting rid of it all.
I think my main reason for believing these little phrases was a lack of familiarity with the Bible. However, I have a theory that once you do come in contact with the Word, you can either embrace it and let go of OSAS or you can suppress it and fall into a very strong delusion.
I think OSAS once appealed to me because I felt deeply unsure of whether I could overcome the sin in my life. Many teachers and preachers reassured me that I didn't have to and that if I just relaxed and trusted in Jesus enough, I'd become a better Christian through that.
It was all about resting, not working. Trusting, not striving. But sin mopped the floor up with me as a result of believing this and I read Galatians 5 and saw no fruit.
Anyway, there is being mistaken and then there is being under a strong delusion. I see repeating osas phrases over and over in the face of clear non-osas Scriptural logic as being under that delusion.
And it's a strong one because it rids believers of their obligation to be holy and overcome sin. If sin is just the air we breathe and it can't be overcome, then there's no reason to put in the effort and dying to self thats involved with getting rid of it all.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
This is contradictory
you are trusting someone, but it’s yourself not God,
jesus said come to him and he will give you rest, you want to,work? Why? Learning to love is not work, it’s placing your faith in Christ. People think it’s hard to overcome, for us it is, for Christ it is not
you can’t overcome sin, that is true,apart from gods help. Thats why you need him
returning to law will not help you overcome sin, and thinking you are sinless is just deceiving yourself. No one is good but God. Jesus said that not me
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
We cant pick and choose . We love and embrace ALLTHINGS JESUS taught .
OR our faith was not in HIM but rather in men who created another version of him . Cant follow that latter version
and expect to hear WELL DONE , rather one shall hear I NEVER KNEW YA .
Now if our faith is in JESUS then we would trust HIM and take HIM at HIS every word , WHICH INCLUDES HIS EVERY WARNING TOO .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
That second picture of that man sure didnt seem as happy as the first picture .
IF WE LOVE CHRIST WE OBEY CHRIST . Pretty simple .
Why o why can the people simply not read the bible , embrace ALL things JESUS said . IF he said DO , DO
and if HE said dont do , dont do . As with the apostels too . PRETTY SIMPLE walk but men who love sin
love to complicate that simple walk in order to justify their OWN WALK and WHY THEY DO as THEY DO .
Instead of simply DOING what JESUS said to do . Pretty simple summation HUH ...........................
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Eternal security is found in Christ and HE alone . the problem is many aint following HIM
and thus they have not or know not the truth the way or the life .
The problem is not with saying IN CHRIST ALONE is salvation
its with thinking we can follow and do as we please and believing we have eternal life or will have it at our end .
In other words , TOO MANY FOLKS are not FOLLOWING the ONE WHO GIVES ETERNAL LIFE
but have chosen a jesus who simply omits the teachings of CHRIST in order to fullfill their own fleshy desires
and find a means to justify their own evil behavoir . I mean how many folks can say I LOVE JESUS
yet by their walk YOU KNOW THEY DONT .
I mean if we love CHRIST would we not love HIS teachings , WOULD WE NOT EMBRACE THEM
SEEING all things HE taught as good for our souls . IF we say we trust HIM , then why DO many not take HIM at HIS WORD
WHY omit the warnings , WHY omit the reminders JESUS HIMSELF said about HE who endures TO THE END shall be saved .
I mean i see them even omit the fact one has to BELIEVE IN JESUS TO BE SAVED . IF we can omit HIS TEACHINGS
THEN WE OMIT HE WHO SENT CHRIST . IF OMIT The teachings of CHRIST , we just omitted HIM .
IF one can so easily disregaurd HIM , HIS teachings , THEN TELL ME , DO THEY LOVE HIM , DO THEY EVEN KNOW HIM .
NOPE . they dont . I take EVERY WARNING OF GOD , OF CHRIST as GOOD FOR MY SOUL
Time for folks to behold BOTH the severity and the goodness of GOD . OR we are simply creating another image of GOD
which as you know AINT GOD . WE just created a god that serves our flesh . WE made ourselves , our own god .
Thus sayeth the pilgrim has become our motto . IF folks can so easily trample under foot the teachings of Christ
of the apostels , OF GOD , of biblical doctrine . THEY JUST TROD the SON right under foot . WE cant save ourselves
SO we aint god . FOLLOW THE GLORIOUS LORD WHO IS THE SAVOIR . DO so firm to the end . HE has given us
all that we need to worship GOD as GOD desires in SPIRIT and IN TRUTH . PS , SIN aint spirit and truth , Now is it .
The SPIRIT dont indwell us to teach us to DISOBEY CHRIST now does it . Many folks follow the flesh and not the SPIRIT
and if we have not the SPIRIT , GUESS WHO WE DONT BELONG TOO . . GOD . I say a simple return to bibles IS IN DIRE NEED .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Those who truly believe in Christ have been made righteous
and those who have been made righteous NOW LOVE righteousness . The problem is
many do not love righteousness cause they have never truly submitted to GOD , TO CHRIST and thus have not even been made RIGHTEOUS .
ANY LOVE that comes from GOD , Loveth not that which is evil , but rather LOVES GOD , CHRIST , ABOVE ALL
He who loveth the flesh has not been made righteous in CHRIST , FOR HAD HE BEEN MADE RIGHTEOUS
HE would now , BY THE SPIRIT have the LOVE OF GOD SHED UPON HIS HEART . YE shall KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS .
AND by their FRUITS INDEED YE SHALL KNOW THEM . Let us return to bibles and feast daily upon those lovely scrips .
Id like to see you lay that out. I know you would at least reason it out with scripture. By eternal security do you mean eternal life? Or do you mean a good eternal life of honor rather than dishonor?
I do know, having listened to you for quite a few years, that you believe if we keep our trust to the end, we live forever. At least that’s what I’ve gotten and understood from you.
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