When will God gather Israel?

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dad

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There are many things we will see when God gathers His people from afar to be in the land of Israel. I do not see those things yet. So can anyone (jack Hibbs or Ammir Tsarfati or Jan Markel are you listening?) show us clear bible verses that say that this already happened in 1948?
 
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Aunty Jane

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I think you need to define "Israel" before you do anything else.....scripture paints a grim picture of Israel's track record down through their history.

God did not choose Israel because they were better than any other people....they proved that they were not obedient to the laws of their God for a good part of the time that they had vowed to serve him, exclusively.

It was a promise made to Abraham that his descendants would become 'more numerous than the sands of the sea', and through his lineage, God would produce the promised Messiah. But time and again we see Israel fail to live up to their end of the covenant that was made upon their release from Egypt, and yet God could have terminated his covenant, since the terms depended upon their obedience to his laws. They could never hold on to true worship for long, allowing false religious practices to creep in and contaminate God's worship. He punished them and when they repented, he forgave them...and he kept on doing so even when he just wanted to destroy them....

Exodus 32:7-8, 9-10....
"Then the Lord spoke to Moses, “Go down at once, for your people, whom you brought up from the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves. 8 They have quickly turned aside from the way which I commanded them. They have made for themselves a molten calf, and have worshiped it and have sacrificed to it and said, ‘This is your god, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt!’”. . . . .
"The Lord said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and behold, they are an obstinate people. 10 Now then let Me alone, that My anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them; and I will make of you a great nation.”


Yet God kept them in existence until his purpose in connection with them was fulfilled.....even giving them first opportunity to become rulers with Christ in his Kingdom. The majority however, succumbed to the lies told by their religious leaders and they called on Pilate to execute him, cursing themselves and their children with Christ's blood. (Matthew 27:24-25)

Even John the Baptist gave the hypocritical Pharisees a serve....
Matthew 5:7-10....
"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; 9 and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 10 The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." (NASB)

When they murdered God's son, the axe fell. The nation was abandoned and a new nation was chosen to replace them....

Matthew 21:23, 42-43....NASB...
"When He entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to Him while He was teaching, and said, “By what authority are You doing these things, and who gave You this authority?”. . . . .

Jesus said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures,
‘The stone which the builders rejected,
This became the chief corner stone;
This came about from the Lord,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it."


Fleshly Israel was no longer God's nation.....he chose a new one whom Paul described as "the Israel of God"....'spiritual Israel' made up of both Jewish and Gentile disciples of Jesus Christ. (Galatians 6:16)

Paul also defined what a real "Jew" was in God's eyes....
Matthew 3:7-10....
"You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written. . . . .For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God."

Matthew 15:7-9 NASB.....
"You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:
8 ‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
9 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’”


Acts 15:14....
"Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name." (NASB)

Israel was handed back to the nations to become part of the world. The nation of Israel today are blood spillers like all the rest. (Isaiah 1:15)
They have forsaken their God, and like their forefathers, have allied themselves with those whose worship they despise.

"Jewish" now just describes a person's nationality....not necessarily their religion.

Jesus said of them....
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!
(Matthew 23:37-39)

In the last 2,000 years individuals from the Jewish nation have come to Christ like the first century disciples did, but as a nation they still deny Jesus was the Christ. Whilst we wait for his return....the Jews wait in vain for him to show up at all. They will never acknowledge the one "who came in the name of the Lord".

1948 therefore has no significance or meaning.....
 

Dropship

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..God did not choose Israel because they were better than any other people....they proved that they were not obedient to the laws of their God for a good part of the time that they had vowed to serve him, exclusively..

Yes, God needed a place to send his Son, and the jews were simply the best of a bad bunch, because if he'd sent him to Africa they'd have bunged him straight in the cookpot, and if to the red indians they'd have scalped him on the spot, and if to the chinese they'd have put him to work on the Great Wall.
At least he had a good 3 year run in Israel before they killed him and have been rejecting him ever since, so if they're still God's 'Chosen People' I'm Mary Poppins..:)

rel god-point2 (1).jpg
 

MatthewG

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There are many things we will see when God gathers His people from afar to be in the land of Israel. I do not see those things yet. So can anyone (jack Hibbs or Ammir Tsarfati or Jan Markel are you listening?) show us clear bible verses that say that this already happened in 1948?

Hello Dad,

My encouragement is to read Revelation, and study it for yourself.

Helpful tools to use: E-sword (it has a greek words there for you to look at), Strongs Concordance, Vines Old, New testament word Dictionary, there is also a helpful study bible called The Thompson Chain Reference.

That is my only encouragement, my friend. There is also historical evidences about the fall of Jerusalem from Josephus, Suetonius (I believe), Cassio Dio, and Taticus. Which is a historical review of some of the things of that day in age in which Jesus and the Apostles had lived in and through. I personally believe everything has done been completed however now today, the Kingdom of the Heavenly Jerusalem still grows today, by those who come in faith of the death, burial, and resurrection.

Back in their day they were encouraged to wait and look for the Lord, and I believe that he had came, and judgement, and the wrath was poured out of the material nation of Israel in that day in age, and that today Jesus has had the victory over all things, and we can grow spiritually and mature through and by studying the Bible.

It is difficult but worth it in the end building up yourself in spiritual truth.
 
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dad

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Hello Dad,

My encouragement is to read Revelation, and study it for yourself.
I have, thanks. Nothing in there that says God restored Israel to the land in 1948.
Helpful tools to use: E-sword (it has a greek words there for you to look at), Strongs Concordance, Vines Old, New testament word Dictionary, there is also a helpful study bible called The Thompson Chain Reference.
Not sure who you think you are talking to. The topic at hand is something one would probably find in those sources.
That is my only encouragement, my friend.
Thanks, but why would someone asking a basic question need encouraging? I think the trick here is to try to deal with the issue and offer some sort of case on it one way or the other.

There is also historical evidences about the fall of Jerusalem
Why would anyone doubt Jerusalem fell? (many times) How does that relate to whether God gathered them to Israel in the end, after they repent?
from Josephus, Suetonius (I believe), Cassio Dio, and Taticus. Which is a historical review of some of the things of that day in age in which Jesus and the Apostles had lived in and through. I personally believe everything has done been completed however now today, the Kingdom of the Heavenly Jerusalem still grows today, by those who come in faith of the death, burial, and resurrection.
What does the time when God destroys their enemies and restores the remnant of believers have to do with a 'kingdom of heavenly Jerusalem' today?
Back in their day they were encouraged to wait and look for the Lord, and I believe that he had came, and judgement, and the wrath was poured out of the material nation of Israel in that day in age, and that today Jesus has had the victory over all things, and we can grow spiritually and mature through and by studying the Bible.
Who is 'we'? And what has that to do with the topic of when Jesus restores the remnant of Israel? (and whether that was in 1948 as some seem to think)
It is difficult but worth it in the end building up yourself in spiritual truth.
Not sure why you imagined that I lacked truth or that you had some? We can find out when you address the topic I guess.
 
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dad

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I think you need to define "Israel" before you do anything else.....scripture paints a grim picture of Israel's track record down through their history.
Look at the verses about when He restores Israel. Is there some ambiguity in your mind there?

God did not choose Israel because they were better than any other people....they proved that they were not obedient to the laws of their God for a good part of the time that they had vowed to serve him, exclusively.
Right I think most people know God choose them in ancient times.
It was a promise made to Abraham that his descendants would become 'more numerous than the sands of the sea', and through his lineage, God would produce the promised Messiah. But time and again we see Israel fail to live up to their end of the covenant that was made upon their release from Egypt, and yet God could have terminated his covenant, since the terms depended upon their obedience to his laws. They could never hold on to true worship for long, allowing false religious practices to creep in and contaminate God's worship. He punished them and when they repented, he forgave them...and he kept on doing so even when he just wanted to destroy them....
Right as is the case today in that land. This seems to suggest that they have not yet repented and that He has therefore not yet gathered them. (we know they are there, that has to be the case for prophesy to be true, but the issue is when GOD restores them not when they themselves form a country)

When they murdered God's son, the axe fell. The nation was abandoned and a new nation was chosen to replace them....

I think we all know that He raised up a new people when Israel rejected Him. That does not address when He will restore them to that land and whether that was 1948 as some suggest.

Israel was handed back to the nations to become part of the world. The nation of Israel today are blood spillers like all the rest. (Isaiah 1:15)
They have forsaken their God, and like their forefathers, have allied themselves with those whose worship they despise.
So it looks like you think that God did not restore the Israel we see today to the land.
"Jewish" now just describes a person's nationality....not necessarily their religion.
Regardless, whatever we want to call His people of Israel that will be saved and restored one day, the topic here is whether they already were brought to that land by Good or not.


In the last 2,000 years individuals from the Jewish nation have come to Christ like the first century disciples did, but as a nation they still deny Jesus was the Christ. Whilst we wait for his return....the Jews wait in vain for him to show up at all. They will never acknowledge the one "who came in the name of the Lord".
Actually they all will one day. All Israel shall be saved.
1948 therefore has no significance or meaning.....
I would think it is very significant in prophesy. But unless someone can make the bible case that God restored them to the land in 1948, the significance and meaning does not include that they are there because God gathered them there.
 

MatthewG

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I have, thanks. Nothing in there that says God restored Israel to the land in 1948.
Not sure who you think you are talking to. The topic at hand is something one would probably find in those sources.

Okay.


Why would anyone doubt Jerusalem fell? (many times) How does that relate to whether God gathered them to Israel in the end, after they repent?

Jesus and his Apostles explained many times for them to be watching and waiting to see the return of the Lord has he had said would come. The day that Jerusalem fell was on one of the Festivals I believe the Passover, they were locked in their and they started eating each other.

Those who were watching and waiting, seen the Lord had returned. Those who did not believe did not see him, some people were taken away, but 1,100,000 jews died during the siege. Just something I have learned about.

What does the time when God destroys their enemies and restores the remnant of believers have to do with a 'kingdom of heavenly Jerusalem' today?

It is only important to Biblical context and the scripture.

The Kingdom of Heavenly Jerusalem is what we are part of today be through the Holy Spirit and being adopted as Gods Children by faith.
Who is 'we'? And what has that to do with the topic of when Jesus restores the remnant of Israel? (and whether that was in 1948 as some seem to think)

It looks like you answered your own question in your first comment to me.

Not sure why you imagined that I lacked truth or that you had some? We can find out when you address the topic I guess.

If you read into me trying to say you lacked truth, that was an assumption. Was just trying to be encouraging for the sake of encouraging but some people don't like that or become quickly offended as though I am trying to one up them. I don't know anything as it is, and you probably know a lot more than me to begin with.

Just a person sharing.

May God get the glory.
 
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Jay Ross

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@dad it seems that you are having trouble with the present translations which conveys the Jewish understanding that the Possession was for an infinite time, however, even God said that it would be for a period of time where the vanishing point of that time period would be beyond their ability to comprehend. There were many prophecies given that said that God would scatter the descendants of Jacob to the four corners of the earth. There are also prophecies which tell us that God would gather Israelites to Himself and that as recorded in Ez. 34

11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver/rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and will bring them into their own fertile field; I will feed them on the mountain(s) of Israel, {a metaphor for Israel’s religious basis}, in the {river} valleys and in all the inhabited places of the earth. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountain(s) of Israel, {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountain(s) of Israel {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God. 16 "I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."

Notice that God intends to leave Israel scattered throughout the whole earth to become His Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations.

If you want to confirm the above paraphrasing of the quoted passage, then a careful study of the scriptures will confirm this is true.

Jesus in the Parable of the Sower, suggested that the Sower would sow seed in good fertile fields during the Millennium Age. Israel will play their part in this sowing and tending of the saved souls during this time period.

Shalom
 

Eternally Grateful

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There are many things we will see when God gathers His people from afar to be in the land of Israel. I do not see those things yet. So can anyone (jack Hibbs or Ammir Tsarfati or Jan Markel are you listening?) show us clear bible verses that say that this already happened in 1948?
If I remember right Jesus said we do not know the day or hour
 

Aunty Jane

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Right as is the case today in that land. This seems to suggest that they have not yet repented and that He has therefore not yet gathered them. (we know they are there, that has to be the case for prophesy to be true, but the issue is when GOD restores them not when they themselves form a country)
I guess you missed the point I was making right at the outset....who is “Israel” today? And is the geographical location of any significance in our time?

I think we all know that He raised up a new people when Israel rejected Him. That does not address when He will restore them to that land and whether that was 1948 as some suggest.
Again who is “the Israel of God” of whom Paul spoke? (Galatians 6:16) It was not fleshly Israel but the combined nationalities of both Jews and Gentiles who put faith in Christ. As John B said, ‘God could raise up children for Abraham from the stones if necessary’ to carry out his purpose. Being a “son of Abraham” did not carry any weight with God if they could not obey him. They were circumcised in the flesh but not in their heart.

So it looks like you think that God did not restore the Israel we see today to the land.
The land is of no significance if we take Jesus’ words to the Samaritan woman at the well...the first one to whom he revealed his status as Messiah.
John 4:19-22.....
“The woman said to him: “Sir, I see that you are a prophet. 20 Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship.” 21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews.”

Geography no longer matters..... Christianity was to spread out into all the nations on earth, meaning that wherever they were found, they could worship God on their own land and be acceptable to him. The Promised Land was pictorial of God’s purpose to eventually have humans make the whole earth into a paradise. That was his instruction to Adam and his wife.

Salvation began with the Jews, but it did not end with them. The original promise made to Abraham was that “all the nations would be blessed” by the coming of the seed of promise.
All nations cannot inhabit one small bit of land on earth.

Regardless, whatever we want to call His people of Israel that will be saved and restored one day, the topic here is whether they already were brought to that land by Good or not.
Israel has already been restored....spiritual Israel was established in the first century.....and its members continued to be selected down through the centuries, but as Christianity continued to become more and more corrupt, selection of the “saints” was drastically reduced to the brave hearts who stood up to the Catholic Church and exposed her lies and false teachings often at the cost of their lives.
Only at “the time of the end” would God cleanse, purify and refine his worshippers (Daniel 12:9-10)....the true Christian “wheat” would now emerge from among the “weeds” who were left to “grow together” until the “harvest” which is now approaching. All living when Christ comes as judge will fall into only one of two categories......”sheep or goats”. What are we proving ourselves to be?

Actually they all will one day. All Israel shall be saved.
Not fleshly Israel......they will never make up to God what they never repented doing to his son. God will never forgive those who don’t acknowledge the gravity of the sins they commit of their own free will and repent.
Speak to the Jews today and you will see that they are just as determined to paint Jesus as a fake Messiah as their forefathers did. The curse is still there. (Matthew 27:25)

I would think it is very significant in prophesy. But unless someone can make the bible case that God restored them to the land in 1948, the significance and meaning does not include that they are there because God gathered them there.
Since the land of Israel is occupied by foreign people with false religious beliefs and who are all guilty of polluting the land with innocent blood....it is unacceptable to the God they claim to worship. (Isaiah 1:15)
The site of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem is fought over by the three “Abrahamic” religions.....none of whom worship the true God, Yahweh.....none of them keep his laws or follow the teachings of his son.

The true “wheat” is now being separated from the “weeds”.....but the masses have no idea that their worship is invalid and has been for centuries. Daniel said that at “the time of the end” the wicked would understand nothing and be given no insight, (Daniel 12:9-10) choosing to stick with their false beliefs because they love them and do not want to change.....just as the first century Jews established the pattern.

History repeats because people never learn the lessons from the past. It’s there in plain sight to those who have an open heart and can discern the invitation that God gives to those who are found willing to listen and respond to the truth. (John 6:44; John 6:65)
 

Eternally Grateful

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Israel was not restored in 1948. They were allowed back into the land, which is required to rebuild the temple. Which must be built so the prince who is to come can commit the abomination of desolation mentioned by Daniel and Jesus before the great tribulation which is to come.. Isreal will not be restored until they repent at the end of that time of Jacobs trouble
 
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dad

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Jesus and his Apostles explained many times for them to be watching and waiting to see the return of the Lord has he had said would come. The day that Jerusalem fell was on one of the Festivals I believe the Passover, they were locked in their and they started eating each other.

Those who were watching and waiting, seen the Lord had returned. Those who did not believe did not see him, some people were taken away, but 1,100,000 jews died during the siege. Just something I have learned about.
That is a strange fantasy. Obviously Jesus did not return yet.

It is only important to Biblical context and the scripture.

The Kingdom of Heavenly Jerusalem is what we are part of today be through the Holy Spirit and being adopted as Gods Children by faith.
Great. So? What does that have to do with 1948?


If you read into me trying to say you lacked truth, that was an assumption. Was just trying to be encouraging for the sake of encouraging but some people don't like that or become quickly offended as though I am trying to one up them. I don't know anything as it is, and you probably know a lot more than me to begin with.

Just a person sharing.

May God get the glory.
Sharing is fine. The trick is to share something that relates to a bible case for or against God having brought Israel back to the land already.
 

MatthewG

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That is a strange fantasy. Obviously Jesus did not return yet.

Great. So? What does that have to do with 1948?


Sharing is fine. The trick is to share something that relates to a bible case for or against God having brought Israel back to the land already.

Noted.
 

dad

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@dad it seems that you are having trouble with the present translations which conveys the Jewish understanding that the Possession was for an infinite time, however, even God said that it would be for a period of time where the vanishing point of that time period would be beyond their ability to comprehend.
Forever is not forever?

There were many prophecies given that said that God would scatter the descendants of Jacob to the four corners of the earth. There are also prophecies which tell us that God would gather Israelites to Himself and that as recorded in Ez. 34

11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver/rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day.
I assume that cloudy and dark day is after the Tribulation. What has that got to do with 1948?

13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and will bring them into their own fertile field; I will feed them on the mountain(s) of Israel, {a metaphor for Israel’s religious basis}, in the {river} valleys and in all the inhabited places of the earth. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountain(s) of Israel, {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountain(s) of Israel {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God. 16 "I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."
That is what the Tribulation is all about, wrath/judgment. How does that relate to 1948 and whether God already brought them back?

Notice that God intends to leave Israel scattered throughout the whole earth to become His Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations.
The reason they were scattered was unbelief/disobedience. People in that condition are anything but priests! (or holy)

If you want to confirm the above paraphrasing of the quoted passage, then a careful study of the scriptures will confirm this is true.
So far all that is true is that you apparently have little clue what you read, or that you cannot clearly say it.

Jesus in the Parable of the Sower, suggested that the Sower would sow seed in good fertile fields during the Millennium Age.
Says who? What evidence do you have that this parable was specific and exclusive to the millennium?
 

dad

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I guess you missed the point I was making right at the outset....who is “Israel” today? And is the geographical location of any significance in our time?
As I mentioned in the post that addressed that first post, the significance is that prophesy says Israel will be there, invaded,etc. That does not mean God restored them to that place.

Again who is “the Israel of God” of whom Paul spoke? (Galatians 6:16) It was not fleshly Israel but the combined nationalities of both Jews and Gentiles who put faith in Christ. As John B said, ‘God could raise up children for Abraham from the stones if necessary’ to carry out his purpose. Being a “son of Abraham” did not carry any weight with God if they could not obey him. They were circumcised in the flesh but not in their heart.
We are. Also actual Israel that is saved is. The prophesies however are specific to them, not us. I have no desire to inherit the land over there at all. Nor was I promised it.
The land is of no significance if we take Jesus’ words to the Samaritan woman at the well...the first one to whom he revealed his status as Messiah.
John 4:19-22.....
“The woman said to him: “Sir, I see that you are a prophet. 20 Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship.” 21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews.”

Geography no longer matters..... Christianity was to spread out into all the nations on earth, meaning that wherever they were found, they could worship God on their own land and be acceptable to him. The Promised Land was pictorial of God’s purpose to eventually have humans make the whole earth into a paradise. That was his instruction to Adam and his wife.
Yes geography matters to prophesy...not to salvation. The people promised that land will get it one day. The topic is whether they were brought and restored by God in 1948 or not. (not whether or not all Israel will be saved and restored etc)
Salvation began with the Jews, but it did not end with them. The original promise made to Abraham was that “all the nations would be blessed” by the coming of the seed of promise.
All nations cannot inhabit one small bit of land on earth.
Nor would they want to. The people He promised it to want to.
Israel has already been restored
The term used in this thread was referring to the time God destroys their enemies and all Israel gets saved and God restores the Jews from all over the world to that place. It was not talking about some few Jews who get saved before that time.
....spiritual Israel was established in the first century.
That has no relation to the children of Jacob and Abraham in prophesy. The church is long gone by then. (the end of the tribulation)

Not fleshly Israel......they will never make up to God what they never repented doing to his son.
They will though in the end. That is what the time of Jacob's trouble is all about.
God will never forgive those who don’t acknowledge the gravity of the sins they commit of their own free will and repent.
But they willl one day and mourn as for an only son.
Speak to the Jews today and you will see that they are just as determined to paint Jesus as a fake Messiah as their forefathers did. The curse is still there. (Matthew 27:25)
What is it, 4/5 of Jews will die in the end period? The ones left alive will not be saying or feeling anything like what you said. They will say uncle.
 
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dad

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Israel was not restored in 1948. They were allowed back into the land, which is required to rebuild the temple. Which must be built so the prince who is to come can commit the abomination of desolation mentioned by Daniel and Jesus before the great tribulation which is to come.. Isreal will not be restored until they repent at the end of that time of Jacobs trouble
I tend to share that opinion.
 
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ScottA

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There are many things we will see when God gathers His people from afar to be in the land of Israel. I do not see those things yet. So can anyone (jack Hibbs or Ammir Tsarfati or Jan Markel are you listening?) show us clear bible verses that say that this already happened in 1948?
1948 was a shadow after the fact of what occurred when Christ descended into the heart of the earth gathering the dead, who are "the dead in Christ." The shadow after the fact is part of the foretold strong delusion caused by not believing that all that Jesus said would shortly come to pass actually came quickly just as He said.
 
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ScottA

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That is a strange fantasy. Obviously Jesus did not return yet.
So...you do not believe that Jesus has gone to the Father then come again to enter into those who have heard Him knocking on the door and opened it...just as He promised, and just as many have testified?
 

Jay Ross

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Forever is not forever?
That is true. The Promised Land defined in Gen. 15 was a sign for the remnant of Israel to know that they would inherit the whole earth after the final judgement.

I assume that cloudy and dark day is after the Tribulation. What has that got to do with 1948?
You are right to ask whether or not the tribulation has anything to do with some of Abraham's descendants returning to the land of Canaan some 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac. The Tribulation that is to occur, which I believe you are referencing is still over a 1,000 years into our future and as such that tribulation has nothing to do with the return of some of Abraham's descendants to the Land of Canaan in 1948

That is what the Tribulation is all about, wrath/judgment. How does that relate to 1948 and whether God already brought them back?
But the Gen. 15:16 prophecy does not indicate that God was actually involved in their return to the Land of Canaan in 1948.

The reason they were scattered was unbelief/disobedience. People in that condition are anything but priests! (or holy)
Yes that is very true, Israel was scattered because of their continual idolatrous worship when the iniquities of the fathers were visited upon their children and their children's children in the third and the fourth age of their existence. However, when God sprinkles water on them to cleanse them, they will then become holy in God's eyes.

So far all that is true is that you apparently have little clue what you read, or that you cannot clearly say it.
Says who? What evidence do you have that this parable was specific and exclusive to the millennium?
Yep, you are right, few people have little clue as to what they read in the scriptures because of faulty interpretations written into our English Language translations. Now you ask for proof that what I am suggesting is going to happen, well can you wait for another 50 or so years to pass so that you can observe it happening.

Shalom
 

marks

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When Israel is regathered, all will be gathered, none left remaining in gentile lands. All will be reborn and filled with the Holy Spirit.

I believe this happens when Jesus returns in power and glory, and sends out His angels to gather them to the promised land.

Much love!
 
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